I often heard the claim that after the second World War...

I often heard the claim that after the second World War, the Germans have lost their patriotism (or even have been actively discouraged to be patriotic).

But my question: Is this really the case? Isn't rather that Germans never really had a national sense.
Watching Nazi propaganda, I realised that the Nazis always stressed the Germans are Germans first and the regional identy comes second (being Bavarian, being Swabian, etc.).
This does not only apply to regional identity, but also every other aspect of daily life (being German first, not being nobility (as an example)).

Why would the Nazis stress all the time that the German identity comes first? The only reason would be, that Germans even in the Third Reich did not really have the patriotism that Germans are lacking today.

Am I wrong?

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Nationalism is a mental disease.

Civilization is here so you don't have to be a chest-thumping ape and join the fucking army to have a chance in hell of survival.

Please stop talking about Nazism like it's still relevant.

"Don't talk about this relevant detail because it offends me because the TV memes say it should"

Fuck off. OP has a legitimate point for once and an interesting question.

I was mainly talking about Germans sense of nationality today.
And it is shaped, in one way or another, by the Third Reich. Therefore, it is still relevant.

It doesn't offend me. It's just so banal. Who gives a fuck?

>banal

Do you even know what the word means? Do you realise that words can be used in multiple contexts and, despite looking similar, have different meanings and intent?

Also, "who gives a fuck" is a retarded question when you care enough to make an attempt to pseudo-intellectually dismiss OP's question off-hand with half-assed excuses.

you have a point OP, after WW1 Germany was going broke, the Mark was useless. A lot of Germans we're losing hope in their country, and Hitler brought it back (for a while).

being German, I can see it daily on Facebook. People are saying all the time that Germany has lost its sense of nationality after we lost the war.

You're clearly retarded but nationalism is a contributing factor in a significant number of scientific, medical and technological advancements (look at the first half of the last century)

Read some history books.

It's easy to say "read a book". Name something specific.

Books are better off in a fireplace

That was by design. The German people were systemically demoralised as a matter of government policy after the war. Part of the reason Germans are intent on ruining Europe this century (without even realising it) is because of how fucked up you were left by the psyops campaign after the war

This why you don't lose a major war.

Germanfag here and patriotism is an illness where people wank over a flag.
I sincerely hope to see a truly unified Europe where the current nations are just regions within one country.

>banal: so lacking in originality as to be obvious and boring.

The internet, and Sup Forums in particular, has an unhealthy obsession with nazis given that the group hasn't actually existed as a relevant political entity in almost a hundred years. I'm sick of seeing it and hearing it day in and day out. It's boring, it's expected, it's unoriginal: banal.

People who love science and technology do not study what they love to study because of love of country and nationality; they do it because they love doing it. Dick waving contests like the arms and space races are mere catalysts and methods of securing capital for research.

yeah, but if you read my original post, you can see I argue there that this mentality is not new but existed before the Nazis took over.
Or are you talking about the First World War?

>Dick waving contests like the arms and space races are mere catalysts and methods of securing capital for research.

That's literally my point.

Germany understands from experience and their mindset that patriotism is foolish.

From a german point of view, the portrayal of american patriotism sometimes feels ridicilous.

But why would a country without a sense of nationalism vote for the National Socialist German Workers' Party?

My point is that nationalism is not a requirement for scientific advancement, and we're probably better off without it if we can fund it without creating a boogyman and rallying empty-headed flag-wavers and starting another war.

It's weird that the losers would consider the victors foolish. I think it's more so just the case the Germans lost a lot of what they had to be proud about.

protest vote, economic reason, intimidation (SA), political calculations, misconceptions, charisma, low voter turnout, ...

>Nazism
Please stop using this like it's a word

>protest vote, economic reason, intimidation (SA), political calculations, misconceptions, charisma, low voter turnout
That sure sounds familiar...

You're not looking at it correctly. Nazi germany was hyper nationalist compared to the US at the time of WWII. Germany started a war and lost it, was split in half as a result of nationalism, in their mindset. This is why the US looks silly. They won the war and despite that they're falling into the trap that royally fucked up germany (again).

Exchange america with any other nation that favors patriotism. It doesn't matter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
This word? This rather well defined one with a wiki article with 200+ references and probably also found in every dictionary printed after 1940? Surely not a word. Everyone who ever used it must be mistaken.

> unoriginal

Heres a dollar, go buy some glass marbles.

> Isn't rather that Germans never really had a national sense.

You appear to know nothing of Germany and the German people.

Can you convince me otherwise?
I am German and have a university degree in history (although I did not focus on German history)

Nah, your ancestors were defeated by Americans, Russians, and the British. We brainwashed them into thinking what they did was wrong, when in actuality they all continue to do the same thing, and it is the necessary right of powerful nations. It has worked exceptionally well and Germany will never outright attack the world again. Unfortunately it is still in the German's nature to invade, so they have infiltrated and taken over the EU, economically. Eventually something will need to be done, it is already happening with Brexit. Again, we will have to plant the seed of doubt in the German mind about globalism. Future German children will be having this same conversation about globalism with foreigners. All in all the Germans are a plague on humanity that must be kept in check by countries with reasonable nationalism (USA, Russia, etc).

Jesus Christ, comparing the US with the state of late Weimar Germany? Nationalism is ok as long as you don't go full-retard. US nationalism is keeping the world in check, not throwing it into a dumpsterfire like Europe did in the early 1900s.

Germany wasn't even a single unified nation for most of its history; I think you are wrong.

as a german I have to say germans didn't lost their patriotism
they hide it though or replace it as in being proud of german products/bands/football club

lots of germans are very very proud of their cities/regions too (local patriotism)

Yeah, but that's what I am saying (or rather asking). There was never a patriotism towards the nation, but towards other things.

wouldn't say there was never a patriotism towards germany herself
germans in 19th century wanted a state unification

austrians too saw themselves as germans
during imperial and nazi german times patroitism was very strong i guess

>germans in 19th century wanted a state unification
was this an "elite project" (driven by intellectuals, artists, ...) or was this concensus among the general population?