What ideology has caused the death of more people? Capitalism or Communism...

What ideology has caused the death of more people? Capitalism or Communism? While it's common knowledge that communists dictators killed many millions, at least that info is out in the open. How many people does capitalism kill indirectly though? Is it even possible to calculate? If a capitalist country like USA emposes a trade embargo on a communist country and said embargo leads to starvation as the whole planet trades, then who's fault is it? As someone that was never a fan of communism, I'm starting to feel that capitalism is morally no better, maybe even worse, and it is getting a free pass, especially in america.

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How many Russians, Cossacks, Poles, and Ukrainians have died under Stalin?

How many Cubans died under Castro?

How many Chinks died under Mao?

How many Koreans died under Kims?

Capitalism may take the gold in # of countries bombed but it doesn't come close to the death toll under Communism.

>ideoLOGy

a lot, we all know that, no one is denying that, but capitalism has also killed uncounted people during colonialist, by mistreatment of slaves and children in early factories, trade embargoes, people who die due to cancers caused directly by heavy pollution of nearby factories (places like china, India, Vietnam...), people who died because of the great depression, how many people died directly because of actions of companies like Heckler and Kosh who claim that if they don't make arms and sell them to to any group they can, someone else will... when all of that shit adds up and when we consider how long capitalism has existed, I think it's death toll is way larger than communist death toll.

Ideologies don't kill people. People kill people. :^)

Pure unchecked capitalism has enslaved billions and quietly kills every day, yet is defended by the very people suffering as a result of it.

Truly, the greatest form of cuckery in existance.

ideologies make them justify it

THIS TBH
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commies , the people on the bottom rung die off young regardless whoms at the top of the pile however the rung starts further up with a left wing agenda . The same tech poluting the world is used by caps is the same as used by the commies with the same resulting deaths , not exclusive to big business ... wars have nothing to do with political allegence of parties and everything to do with religion and boundry . On the face of it id same the commies would acrue more deaths

ideologies can't make anyone do anything, they have no agency in and of themselves.

just like guns, you know, they're simply tools.

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What you're saying is entirely conjecture.

The real answer is that nobody knows. It's not easily calculable for either system.

What I do know is that the governments of the world are not now, nor any time in the foreseeable future, ready for the responsibility required to sustain an ethical purely socialist system.

Capitalism would work just fine while minimizing suffering if governments posessed the ethical compass required to institute communism without becoming a horror show.

Basically, changing the system accomplishes nothing when all the people are rotten... and if your goal is to try and take away my individual liberty over an ideology that merely shuffles the corruption around to a different privileged class... I will do everything in my power to kill you.

You do bring up a point about the bombs.

Something that doesn't just kill in the initial explosion but also causes wide scale property and infrastructure damage. Ruining a country's land and hindering future generations. War truly is hell

it's a lot fucking harder to kill someone without those simple tools. It's easier to shoot someone with a gun than kill them with a sharp object and it's less horrific to the killer as it's faster, no screaming and bleeding all over you.

Same with ideology, it's way simpler to convince someone to go and kill or die or sacrifice something for an ideology than for anything else, probably even love.

>capI talisman
>killing pepole

No one would admit to it, and even if we did have a number, they would claim it is the individuals fault (absolving any responsibility on the states part), for not having enough money or being lazy or whatever reason people struggle to survive in a capitalist society.

The thing people hate about communism, people die, indiscriminately. With capitalism, only the poor die needlessly, and they don't have much of a voice so anyone above a certain level in our pseudo-caste system doesn't feel that hardship. They feel no need for change and having more voting power to maintain that comfy status quo.

When your average citizen and not just the peasantry start dying, that's when everyone starts caring.

Capitalism will fall in on itself

Justification for sure, but when looking at numbers it's probably a good approach. Communism and capitalism are directly murderous only if as ideologies they establish a murderous system, encourage killing. That's a good debate, but to compare death tolls and totals we'd want to look at how many were killed by the choices of those people justifying with communism, vs how many were killed by those peoplepeople justifying with capitalism.

>slaves
sure

>children in early factories
most were immigrants and felt privileged to even have a job. Plus in 1833 we passed a bill limiting it.

>early factories
yet invented safety procedures is not the fault of capitalism.

>trade embargoes
it's not the fault of capitalism that communist countries can't give enough food rations to their citizens

>heavy pollution
capitalism creates competition to whoever can invent the best solution to pollution

>great depression
It's not the fault of capitalism that a dust bowl started, this was also before deposit insurance

>arms sale
there's far more people in this world using AK-47's than M-16s.

funny, this is exactly the kind of rhetoric I hear from the gun-grabbing left.

so? It's true, guns and ideology make killing easier.

Both are terrible, fascism is the only way.

no, go away, there's a containment board for your kind

Communism kills more of their own people, that is a fact. But both system have a hierarchy that must be followed. So in either system you are going to have people who control the wealth/influence the laws and military, middle men who do all of the grunt work, and untouchables at the bottom that are treated like shit. Similar to the Hindu caste system, but their system is somewhat flawed because it is hereditary. You cannot change you position, no matter what. You must live you place in society until you die and are reborn. But in a capitalistic society, people are free to move up or down the social hierarchy. But instead of being decided by your family's status, it is decided by your circumstances, work ethic, and luck. Not everyone can be at the top, because a balanced must be maintained. So while you are free to shift status in a capitalistic society, it is not always possible even if you put in all of the world. For every one success story, there are several failures who attempted the same thing. But at the end of the day capitalism is better because you at least have the freedom, even if the odds are very unlikely, to move your status up. Communism forces you to stay as one thing forever, and that a higher skilled job should be treated the same as grunt work. It will never work. Because it always ends in purging those fighting for freedom.

that's the joke

It's true though:
>>jobs for everyone
>> no food shortages
>>increasing birth rates
>> a sense of purpose

What wasn't the worst they did when left to their own devices before war was declared on them by Britain and France?
Invade Poland and Belgium?

Those lefties really love stirring the pot

You cant really compare the two numbers work compleatly diferent. Overall? Capitalism has killed a lot lot more, but than againe, this is the system working how it was intended for it to work, but there wernt really that many capitalists dictators that would kill you for not being a capitalists, it kills through markets and demand. Communism on the other hand has had many deaths in the name of it, but it was a system that was twisted from the way ti was soupoused to be. Really what you are looking at is either A. System that will kill millions but deliver what it promises to the first world while making the level of life we enjoy imposible for others or B. A system that dose not deliver what it prommised and kills millions to keep one guy in power

>but there wernt really that many capitalists dictators that would kill you for not being a capitalists
Does this guy count? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto

Ahhh the old "the nazi system worked". It did not, Hitler had to start the war because otherwise the economy would collapse right back down. It mainly relied on slave labor and taking the money of jews "degenerates" and other political enemies and using it for the state. Once he was up to his ass in debt from rebuilding the country it was either start a war and this way get more money or pay up and louse EVERYTHING

i said not many not none

Kind of like all the minefields in Communist countries but Im sure your mental gymnastics wilm say thats capitalisms fault as well. Please go kill yourself by starvation and move to Venezuela.

>being this retarded

>calls me retarded

>cant disprove any fact I said

It's probably cheap propaganda, but they might be onto something here as well

>Hitler had to start the war because otherwise the economy would collapse right back down

Start wars with whom? The Brits and french declared war on him.

Besides, if his economy really wasn't working it's because of his command economy and lack of free market ideals.
National SOCIALISM after all

>Once he was up to his ass in debt from rebuilding
Ass in debt because of the previous war.
All the lands he took were in preparation for war with the USSR or reclaimed from WW1

>Start wars with whom
Poland for starters. He was also fucking around in Spain before the start of WW2