What is your opinion of cryptocurrency?

What is your opinion of cryptocurrency?

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wired.com/2015/12/big-tech-joins-big-banks-to-create-alternative-to-bitcoins-blockchain/
siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/major-banks-blockchain-cryptocurrency
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Early adopters will shape the future of mankind.

it's the future

Its a lot like gambling. You could win big but you will probably lose the lot

Indeed!

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some will succeed, some will fail... right now they're booming so there will probably be a ton of start ups, many of which will fail... there is no intrinsic value but there is value in it's versatility...
it seems bitcoin is the most solid one but it's huge jump already happened...
you're late to the party

lol an early adopter would've been 5 years ago bub

1 bitcoin = 4042.99 dollars
yeah no thanks

Don't talk down to me like I made a mistake.
I know what I said, kiddo.

I dont understand how some made up money can hold any real value irl

You don't have to buy the whole coin.

there is inherent value in a currency that cannot be falsely duplicated.

BitCoin in particular is so far down the encryption inception alley that I don't think anyone will successfully hack themselves unlimited money.

I think it will change the world in a big way, but I doubt it will be Bitcoin that rules the world. But I'm pretty sure some cryptocurrency will be the main world currency in like 20 years.

That's a valid question, but applies to "real" currencies as well. Why does money issued by a central bank of any country hold real value?

It has value because people are willing to pay for it or exchange goods for it. It's the same with any currency (USD and EUR are just a bunch of cheap inox metals and cotton paper) and even for gold (its price is definitely not based on its use on connectors)

People need to stop talking about before the government butts in

PT Barnum

It has plenty of uses, but it's garbage as actual money.

Also, go back to your containment board .

Try ten

Fees are high as fuck at the moment compared to other online alternatives, but apparently that's only getting better, no?

Cash is king. Fuck your Monopoly money.

Fees aren't the issue, the decentralized nature is.

Why is that a problem? The only problem I see is fees, otherwise it's very convenient, safe and allows for some privacy. I now only use it for buying illegal stuff, but used to buy lots of stuff (like games on G2A etc.) using bitcoin after the prices skyrocketed because I didn't care about fees, as it still felt like free money for me

>Why is that a problem?
Because there is no central authority to control the supply in response to market pressures. If cryptocurrency were our money, the economy would have collapsed multiple times over the past few years.

Cryptocurrency is at best a payment processor a la Paypal. It isn't money.

It's good for buying weed, as far as investing I think it will go up and down loads so only if you have few thousand spare ££ should you. It's big enough that it will be still around in at least 10 years and maybe more.

That's like your opinion man. Yeah, bitcoin is not compatible with our current economic system because the supply is predictable and by design it's a deflationary currency. But typically deflation is only destructive if it's unexpected by the currency's users, with bitcoin it's not only expected to happen, but it's almost inevitable with how the supply is planned.

Also, you're talking about a scenario where bitcoin would replace existing currencies, but if that were to happen, it's still decades away.

That doesn't change the fact that bitcoin is a viable currency even now, you can buy goods and services with it. Even now the fees are not that bad compared to credit cards etc., it's just that the financial services are still very crude and fees are always on the buyer's side, thus making it seem like bitcoin is a less viable option than say PayPal...

>That's like your opinion man
Well it's a fact that it isn't money right now. It is rarely used as a unit of account, one of the key functions of money.
>But typically deflation is only destructive if it's unexpected by the currency's users
It's destructive if you expect it as well. There's a very good reason why central banks set a low inflation as their target rather than deflation.
>Also, you're talking about a scenario where bitcoin would replace existing currencies
I'm talking about a scenario where Bitcoin becomes money, yes.
>That doesn't change the fact that bitcoin is a viable currency even now, you can buy goods and services with it
Bitcoin isn't money. The stock market is not valued in Bitcoin. My grocery store does not accept Bitcoin. The ability to use something as a medium of exchange does not money make on its own.

>The ability to use something as a medium of exchange does not money make on its own.
Yes it does, you can use fucken rocks as money

>bitcoin is a viable currency even now
marginally. wait till the next big hack, or the next big market manipulation pump and dump, or.. well any of the million of illegal things that btc has zero protection against. you want to get rich? go look at all the shit you can't do with USD, but CAN do with BTC. Then start doing them.

great for buying my experimental drugs and kiddy porn

>you can use fucken rocks as money
In theory you could, but in practice we don't, so rocks aren't money.
>Yes it does
No, it doesn't. That's just barter. For something to be money, it must be widely used as a medium of exchange, unit of account, and store of value. Bitcoin is not, therefore Bitcoin is not money. It could become money one day, but that day is not today.

>There is inherent value in any form of scarcity.
ftfy

So your money has value because the US government says it does?
You're the one with the colored paper Monopoly money, buddy.

buttcoins are just as imaginary as 99% of USD

the difference is that buttcoins don't have several aircraft carriers, a few hundred nukes, and trillions in trade potential backing its claim to legitimacy

>Bitcoin isn't money. The stock market is not valued in Bitcoin. My grocery store does not accept Bitcoin.
So it's not money where you live.

I've been in Japan for 2 weeks last month, earlier this year I've spent similar amount of time in NYC. During my stay in Tokyo I've seen more people pay for stuff with BTC (mostly hardware wallets) than contactless payments (like PayPass) in NYC.

I'm not saying it's as widely adopted as other currencies, but it's not as obscure as you may think.

It's a meme to get initial investors rich then ultimately crash

>dumbfucks believe what they see in the main stream media
>my face when they said bit coin was dead and worthless over 160 times (theres a site that keeps count)
>mfw people dont understand the market and foreign exchange and how to read candle charts
>mfw you can use btc and eth to invest in other coins
>mfw crypto made me over 500k in the last year

The intrinsic value of any crypto is its ability to address an existing flaw or obstacle in the current system.

-It could make frictionless money transfers easier.
-It could make anonymous payments a possibility
-it could negate NIRP and ZIRP attacks on savers during inflationary periods
-it could enable international micropayments which free hundreds of millions of people from middleman fees


>but it's huge jump already happened...
Bitcoin has had the self same "big jump" four times now.

If you are a long time crypto head, you have seen the same explosion four times. It is like a heartbeat kicking into life. Stronger and more persistent each time. There is no sign that we have seen the last great leap forward for cryptos. And if we haven't, then you have just given yourself one more opportunity to kick yourself with regret.

>So it's not money where you live.
It's not money where anyone lives so far as I'm aware.
>During my stay in Tokyo I've seen more people pay for stuff with BTC (mostly hardware wallets) than contactless payments (like PayPass) in NYC.
PayPass isn't money either. That you are comparing BTC with a payment processor, which is what I said the best case scenario for cryptocurrencies were, only serves to prove my point.

I bet that while you were in Tokyo, goods and services were priced in Japanese Yen. Let me know if that was not the case.

>During my stay in Tokyo I've seen more people pay for stuff with BTC (mostly hardware wallets) than contactless payments (like PayPass) in NY

Oh yeah, you saw them pay with BTC? You were leaning over their should and watched them pay with BTC? You did that enough times to get a feeling for the BTC payment rate vs NFC usage in NY? Fuck off.

Oh and Akihibara doesn't count since its full of nerdshits and BTC hoarders, using BTC in stores is a meme there and people do it literally as a form of tourist activity.

>go get some cryptocurrency and buy some gadgets! Fun fun!

It has a base rate cost of production. Therefore, those who produce it have a minimum threshold of value.

It has customers eager to buy it. They may be motivated by speculation, or they may be motivated by the financial science behind it: that as a deflationary property it is a more reliable store of wealth than cash bank deposits.

There are then those customers who are entrepreneurialor businesses. Those who see bitcoin as a solution that addresses one or more of their core challenges. Whether it is internal money transfers, overseas payments, micropayments, secure transactions, open ledger, whatever. It is a financial tech, and companies operating in fintech sieze upon features of blockchain to use.

Windows is essentially a bookcase full of digital ones and zeros, but nobody asks how Microsoft can be a valuable company when ones and zeros can be written on a page by anybody.

The big difference is that Windows is proprietary while Bitcoin is not. Any business who wants to use cryptocurrency as a solution can just copy-paste their own.

How valuable are your copies of Linux?

>I bet that while you were in Tokyo, goods and services were priced in Japanese Yen. Let me know if that was not the case.
Depends, sometimes there are two prices listed.

I understand your point, I'm just saying there are already places that use BTC as money, even if you're skeptical of real shops accepting it, go look around darknet markets.

I've seen contactless used in NYC literally twice, I noticed because it was very weird they still almost exclusively use swipe or cash, back where I live there's maybe 50% cash/50% paypass, haven't seen anyone swipe in years. Yeah I've seen people pay with BTC multiple times in Tokyo. So maybe you fuck off.

>Depends, sometimes there are two prices listed.
Let's just say that I'm extremely skeptical that Bitcoin prices are widespread in Japan.
>I understand your point, I'm just saying there are already places that use BTC as money
Where? Just because a place might accept Bitcoin, that doesn't make Bitcoin money.
> even if you're skeptical of real shops accepting it, go look around darknet markets.
You seem to be having a hard time with the concept that "accepting something as payment" does not equal "money".

This is precisely the core strength of crypto that is open source and non-proprietary. It is laid out there in front of you, asking to be hacked.

A closed system requires one disgruntled employee - or one headhunted by a rival - to bust open their proprietary cryptocurrency from the inside out.

Millions - billions - evaporated from the company ledger in a single click.

This is why every bank attempted to build its own proprietary blockchain, then resolved it would end in a full scale nuclear financial war.

They determined it was more secure to operate on a single blcokchain. One that is open and which has been exposed to endless attacks from day one. BTC market cap today is over $60Bn. That is a big prize incentive for the lucky hacker who breaks the crypto.

Bitcoin has inherent value, because it has been resilient.

Unlike linux, you cannot duplicate a bitcoin. It has in-built protection against double payment. That is what the blockchain is.

>ITT China

>Just because a place might accept Bitcoin, that doesn't make Bitcoin money.

That is literally the definition of money. A wealth store used as an intermediary for a transaction of goods.

Literally money.

>They determined it was more secure to operate on a single blcokchain.
Uh-huh. Who is "they"?
>Unlike linux, you cannot duplicate a bitcoin.
Like Linux, you can just take Bitcoin and slap a new face on it. We see it all the time and they are called alt-coins.

The federal reserve will own it or it will die. What in the fuck do you think ww2 was all about?

No shit, that's the entire point of the blockchain
Because it is backed by the entire economy of said country and usually atleast a bit of gold
how is it garbage as actual money? I dont see why or how
thats the entire point you fucking retard
fuckin lmao, not having a central authority is the point, you're clearly not educated about how any of this works, there is only a limited supply of bitcoin so inflation isnt really a thing
I like how you legit dont know what money is
you cant hack bitcoin dipship, only if youre in control of a significant portion of all processing power, which is impossible since no one is stupid enough to try and let the currency crash
you dont use it as money, other tribes do
yeah so?
> Any business who wants to use cryptocurrency as a solution can just copy-paste their own.
>wat

Money is also a unit of account. If a good or service is priced in USD and the seller happens to accept an equivalent amount of BTC, that does not make BTC money. That's barter.

Gold is king. Cash devalues every year.

youre actually fucking retarded, accepting something as payment makes that thing money,
what do you think money is?

no thats what you call cryptocurrency, not all cryptocurrencies are bitcoin rip offs
Millions - billions - evaporated from the company ledger in a single click.
thats not how any of this works, youre just spouting fancy words and acting like it makes sense

Try fifteen

>the entire point
Exactly. The point of cryptocurrency is in conflict with use as money.
>there is only a limited supply of bitcoin so inflation isnt really a thing
Which is why it's garbage as money. Inflation is GOOD.

>what do you think money is?
I've already said what I think it is. Money is something which is widely used as a medium of exchange, unit of account, and store of value.
>accepting something as payment makes that thing money
So if Joe the plumber pays Bob the carpenter by fixing his pipes, then fixing pipes is money?

JP Morgan, Wells Fargo, IBM, Intel, Barclays. All showed interest in the crypto space several years ago.

wired.com/2015/12/big-tech-joins-big-banks-to-create-alternative-to-bitcoins-blockchain/

Now they have all but scrapped their proprietary tech approach, and are looking to harness the bitcoin blockchain as the infrastructure for their own products:

siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/major-banks-blockchain-cryptocurrency

>Unlike linux, you cannot duplicate a bitcoin.
>Like Linux, you can just take Bitcoin and slap a new face on it. We see it all the time and they are called alt-coins.

You have your analogies wrong here. Alt-coins are not in competition with bitcoin in the way that TV competed with the internet. They operate in the same framework. An altcoin is like one website, and bitcoin is another website. If an altcoin has a practical application (such as faster payments, bigger blocksize, anonymisation, etc) it will have market value. It will grow popular. And it will grow in value.

Dogecoin and Kanyecoin were just memes. They were a branded version of a disruptive tech, but unlike the originator, they offered no practical solutions. They were a PR stunt and died quickly.

Ironically, this was sort of what the major banks were trying to pull originally, until they realised the bitcoin blockchain had already killed them in th future, unless they learned to co-exist with its presence.

Blockchain is like the cabling that went into people's homes in the 90s and connected everyone to the WWW. Only this time, it's all about fintech.

Small inflation is good, and it's only good for economy. For regular folk bitcoin is one of the most stable rising currency out there

if you give someone a rock, and they accept it, and go to someone else and they accept it too, that's money, that's how money originated because trading goods got too complicated.
also money can be legit anything
inflation is good to a certain extent, a value that goes up indefinitely is better

This is not payment in economical meaning of this word

Laughing at the people who think USD is "real money" compared to BTC. Yeah... maybe if we were still on the gold standard and not debt slaves to a bank. These bills don't mean jack fucking shit in terms of real value.

>siliconrepublic.com/enterprise/major-banks-blockchain-cryptocurrency
It don't think this says what you think it does
>Alt-coins are not in competition with bitcoin in the way that TV competed with the internet.
>An altcoin is like one website, and bitcoin is another website
...and websites compete with one another. Time spent on one website is time not spent on another website. A transaction made with one cryptocurrency is a transaction not made with another cryptocurrency.

>For regular folk bitcoin is one of the most stable rising currency out there
Saying that Bitcoin is stable is absurd.

>thats not how any of this works, youre just spouting fancy words and acting like it makes sense

That is exactly how it works if the authenticity of even a single past transaction becomes compromised. Crypto has value because it is trustless. If your proprietary crypto loses its security, you won't see the coin value drop to zero instantly. But you will see everyone exiting the currency, with no hope of unloading any of your holdings. The outcome? You lose everything.
>Money is also a unit of account. If a good or service is priced in USD and the seller happens to accept an equivalent amount of BTC, that does not make BTC money. That's barter.
That is literally what makes it money. If you go to Disneyland and want to buy shit from a shop that only takes Disneydollar, you transfer your money into their money, and buy goods. You don't "barter" with disneydollar.

What you mean is "legal tender". That is diferent. That is about government jurisdictions. A Norwegian kroner is not "legal tender" in any country but Norway. That is less than 1% of the planet. But a Norwegian crown is still money.

It is stably RISISNG, not counting that China shit.

>if you give someone a rock, and they accept it, and go to someone else and they accept it too, that's money
If those people are negotiating in rocks and storing rocks, then yes, rocks are money. Money can be legit anything, but not everything is used as money. For something to be money, it must be used as money.
>inflation is good to a certain extent, a value that goes up indefinitely is better
Not when it comes to money it isn't.

>...and websites compete with one another. Time spent on one website is time not spent on another website. A transaction made with one cryptocurrency is a transaction not made with another cryptocurrency.
true to a certain extent, but the biggest cryptocurrencies mainly compliment eachother, there'd be no value in direct competition, and you see that by how other coins's market value is calculated in bitcoin and not USD

And Bitcoin is not money in the economical meaning of the word. Fun.

>It is stably RISISNG
No, it isn't. You are using a bizarre definition of stable.
>not counting that China shit.
ayy lmao, let's just ignore things that undermine all of your points.

> authenticity of even a single past transaction becomes compromised.
which it cant, because
>you cant hack bitcoin dipship, only if youre in control of a significant portion of all processing power, which is impossible since no one is stupid enough to try and let the currency crash
if you control a significant portion of the market value or processing power you can maybe do something like hacking it, honestly read what the entire point of having a blockchain is

Underrated post

>That is literally what makes it money.
It isn't.
>If you go to Disneyland and want to buy shit from a shop that only takes Disneydollar
The shop at Disneyland is pricing its goods in Disneydollar. If we assume that Disneydollar is used as a store of value, then Disneydollar would be money. If the shop at Disneyland is pricing its goods in USD and happens to accept an equivalent amount of Disneydollars, then Disneydollar is not money.
>What you mean is "legal tender"
No, that is not what I mean at all. Government jurisdictions have nothing to do with what I am talking about.

>rip 11% of the market
but its honestly not that bad, chinese are just going to outsource bitcoin probably
true, its not by any means stable, but it is going up steadily when you look at the broader picture.
> but not everything is used as money.
true but bitcoin is, what the fuck do you call bitcoin then if not money?

>true, its not by any means stable, but it is going up steadily when you look at the broader picture.
Which isn't relevant to the conversation.
>true but bitcoin is
It's not.
>what the fuck do you call bitcoin then if not money?
A digital commodity.

Tell me what YOU think I think it says. Because right now you appear to be fleeing from a discussion you no longer feel comfortable being in.

Banks attempted to build competing, proprietary fintech that was modelled on blockchain. But they quickly understood there was one fatal flaw in their individualistic approach: the risk of outside attack or their mining network being compromised, hijacked, or taken offline. Everybody operating on a single, public blockchain creates mutually assured destruction in the case of abuse.

Again, I think you are using the wrong analogy. If there was only one website on the internet, sure it would get 100% of the traffic. But there would be nobody online ever because of it.

If you have one crypto, and you want to make a fast payment, you may trade some for a coin which is superfast. If you want to buy sex toys, you may trade it for one which is super-anonymising. If an altcoin cuts out a niche, it has a chance of survival. If it's just a meme, then it's little more than a financial practical joke.

There's no intrinsic value to fed money and gold either though. The reason currency has value is because people agree that it does.

Have you missed what was being discussed in the post you just replied to?

The greentext you quote was discussing the reason why proprietary blockchains have been abandoned in favour of bitcoin forks.

If an intermediary store of wealth can be used in the transaction of goods or services, it is money.

You can tell us "no it isn't", but nobody is going to pay much attention.

Disneydollar is precisely a store of value. You place value into it at the front gate, take your disneybucks, and then spend them in return for goods and services around the park.
>If the shop at Disneyland is pricing its goods in USD and happens to accept an equivalent amount of Disneydollars, then Disneydollar is not money.
This one is just puzzling for so many reasons.

If you go to a ferryport in Calais, and they accept British pounds and Euros, are you saying that one of those is "not money", too?

Are you saying that accepting two payment types always means that one is "not a money"?

You have a very illogical way of trying to understand finances. I don't think it is helping you much, either.

>Have you missed what was being discussed in the post you just replied to?
I dont think so
the quote was a reply to that, also its my quote, and it's just explaining how you cant hack bitcoin and make them disappear or some shit
you can use bitcoin to order drugs, they accept it, they sell that bitcoin for USD, the people buying bitcoin accept it, which means that even by your standard bitcoin is money.

>If an intermediary store of wealth can be used in the transaction of goods or services, it is money.
I'm sorry but no, that is not enough. One of the primary uses of money is as a unit of account, which you are ignoring.
>You can tell us "no it isn't", but nobody is going to pay much attention.
You can say "yes it is", but nobody is going to pay much attention.
>Disneydollar is precisely a store of value.
Then Disneydollar is money.
>If you go to a ferryport in Calais, and they accept British pounds and Euros, are you saying that one of those is "not money", too?
No, I'm not saying that at all.
>Are you saying that accepting two payment types always means that one is "not a money"?
Nope, try reading what I've actually written. What I am saying is that accepting an equivalent amount of some other good or service does not make something money.
>You have a very illogical way of trying to understand finances.
I don't see how.
>I don't think it is helping you much, either.
It seems to be.

>you can use bitcoin to order drugs, they accept it, they sell that bitcoin for USD
>which means that even by your standard bitcoin is money.
Err... no. You literally just showed how it isn't money.

>What I am saying is that accepting an equivalent amount of some other good or service does not make something money.
B-b-b-but user, if they accept it and exchange a service or a good for it then it's money even if its small scale

>buy good with currency
>exchange service for currency
>exchange currency for other currency
sounds like money to me

That's like saying the euro isn't money if someone accepts if as payment for something then goes and exchanges it for dollars.

I'm sorry, but no. Barter transactions don't make something money.

If that's what practically everyone who accepted euros did, then yes, it would.

Sounds like it if you don't understand what money is, but it's not.

> Barter transactions
>implying
honestly talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, I don't even know how you can believe what you're saying
>barter transactions
its not a barter transaction if they give eachother a currency that they can sell / do other things with thats fucking money

Transactions in general are basically fucking bartering. You're just bartering with a piece of paper that has numbers on it that we grew up being told has value. It doesn't. It's a debt note to a fucking bank.

Is the thing that is confusing you the fact that you can get a quotation of BTC prices in US Dollar?

Because it appears that what you are stuck on, is the idea that goods and services sold for BTC are not "really" being sold for bitcoin (even when they literally are being sold for bitcoin).

Instead, you interpret bitcoin purchases of goods as being simply "representative of the dollar price". Is that right?

Because if that is what you are thinking, you should remember that not so long ago, dollar bills were simply there to "represent" the underlying value of a commodity in weights of gold.

Dollar bills served a practical function of being much more transportable than weights of gold.

Are you saying that a gold-backed currency is not "real money" too - even when used to buy goods and services? Because the goods and services are "really" being traded for the gold weight?

If you are saying that, you are wrong.

If you are not saying that, then simply update your thinking to understand how dollar has become like old-gold, and BTC has become like greenbacks, in our new transactional world.

There you go.

no it wouldnt
yes it does
yes it is

You literally can't go wrong. I've never heard of anyone losing money. Ever. Buy and hold for awhile and you will be filthy rich.

>money isnt money
ok
>YOU dont understand what money is
alright I'm sure youre right

>honestly talking to you is like talking to a brick wall
I'm not going to stop saying the truth just because you don't like it.
>I don't even know how you can believe what you're saying
Because it's true.
>its not a barter transaction if they give eachother a currency that they can sell / do other things with thats fucking money
No, it isn't. You might be able to find people to take gold or silver, but gold and silver aren't money anymore either.

It's also telling that cryptocurrency transactions are taxed as barter transactions in the U.S.

Is it too late to get in on this stuff? I've been meaning to make some cash

It's never too late until it is.

The best time to buy BTC was 2009; the second best time is now! :^)

react to this
they're saying the same stuff I'm saying, I just don't get how you're so fucking stubborn.
If people accept it and sell you stuff, give you services then it's money, your definition of money is quite simply wrong