Should Hawaii be granted independence?

Should Hawaii be granted independence?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_sovereignty_movement
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Is this an actual debate going on right now or did you make this up for the thread? Hawaii would be kinda fucked without US support honestly.

>Is this an actual debate going on right now or did you make this up for the thread?
Its been going on for over a century now. Since the 1893 US-backed overthrow of its Monarchy.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaiian_sovereignty_movement
>Hawaii would be kinda fucked without US support honestly.
Why? It did fine before the US overthrew the Queen.

Well now there's tons of American citizens in Hawaii who would probably want to move if independence was granted. Not sure how their economy would fair given how developed the state is.

>Well now there's tons of American citizens in Hawaii who would probably want to move if independence was granted.
That's not necessarily bad. Right now only about 10% of the Hawaiian population in native.

White people complain that immigrants are killing Europe demographically when Whites did the same thing for Hawaii.

>Not sure how their economy would fair given how developed the state is.
This is actually a fair point, but keep in mind that in some aspects US intervention ruined the economy. Before the US came Hawaii was completely self sufficient - Most importantly in terms of food.

Nowdays, Hawaii cant supply its own food and if it would get isolated from shipping for some reason it only has sufficient stockpiles for less than a week and the food production itself will support a tiny fraction of the population.

Same for production, most of the thing it needed back then were produced on the islands. nowdays even things that they produced themselves in the past are imported. Hawaii shifted to almost entirely to tourism based economy and thus are reliant on it - All due to US intervention.

Uhhh also you're comparing Hawaii circa 1900 and now it's completely different. If it was set up right they could be self sufficient but like you said they rely on the US

>Uhhh also you're comparing Hawaii circa 1900 and now it's completely different.
you're missing my point. It is different but the point is how US annexation caused them to shift from self-sufficiency to dependency. Especially in post WW2 era when they basically restructured the entire Island economy to suit the US need rather than Hawaiian needs.

>If it was set up right they could be self sufficient
Yes, but the US didnt set it up that way.

> but like you said they rely on the US
WRONG. they didnt choose. infact native Hawaiians didnt even get voting rights until after WW2 and after the big push that caused most of the island economy to turn Tourism focused. All of the Administration of Hawaii was dominated by White Americans after the overthrow and is still mostly dominated by white Americans to this day.

By the time Native Hawaiians got equal rights as Americans, they became the minority in their own Islands

Okay so what do you want? If Hawaii becomes independent what currency would they use? A lot of US citizens would leave and it would plummet the economy of the now autonomous Hawaiian govt. So you got your natives their land back but now all they can do is build sand castles like Haiti

>Okay so what do you want?
Just to open the topic of conversation. its not a matter which can be solved overnight but it is a topic that should be discussed.

> If Hawaii becomes independent what currency would they use?
They had their own currency before. They can phase gradually into it.

>A lot of US citizens would leave
Or they could stay with a Visa or something similar to how UK is handeling Euro citizens post Brexit.

>and it would plummet the economy of the now autonomous Hawaiian govt.
Perhaps, or they could stay a prime tourism location.
>So you got your natives their land back but now all they can do is build sand castles like Haiti
Have you seen Pre-US Hawaii? they electrified their Palace before the US electrified the White House. They had First world standard of living, unlike Haiti.

Should California become a strong independent state who need no Trump?

That would be fair. It was a constitutional monarchy before greedy US business men overthrew the queen in 1893 and made the US annex the islands.

Alright I get that, it just seems a little far fetched to me. Does anyone know what the natives want? Like do they want their own island back?

>and made the US annex the islands.
They didnt force the US do anything, they overthrew and ASKED the US for annexation. the US could've said no.

Infact, the US didnt reply until the US-Spanish war which made Hawaii become a strategic interest for the US and only then they agreed so in anything the US-Spanish war made the US annex the islands.

Also, the Annexation of the islands wasn't completely legal by international law.

>Alright I get that, it just seems a little far fetched to me.
The desire for self-determination and Self-governance is far fetched? Pretty sure thats what stood at the core of the US declaration of independence.

>Does anyone know what the natives want?
Theres lots of opinions. Some just want better representation within the US, more freedoms and more protection of their heritage. Some want a new free democracy while other want the restoration of the Constitutional monarchy.

>Like do they want their own island back?
Pretty much, They want to own their Islands.

It's not been going on for "over a century." Hawaii was annexed due to shifty white people taking over it's economic and governmental functions, enabling statehood years later when the entire island chain had been effectively westernized and dependent on American imports. There is no debate because the whole state economy would shit itself immediately if Oahu alone lost its military income support and federal funds, and everything had to suddenly rely on a localized market. That's not assuming some other superpower would just move in and annex the island by force, unless you think the retarded "Defend Hawaii" shit is actually a legitimate thing.

Hawaii is fucking shit anyway, I don't see why you care.

>Should Hawaii be granted independence?

OF COURSE.

And anyone who says it shouldn't is a spineless pussy.

>Should Hawaii be granted independence?

Hawaii never lost its sovereignty. The US occupied the Hawaiian Islands, deposed its leader and suppressed its culture.

KEK I'll take the obvious bait

>Hawaii is strategically vital to our military presence in the pacific
>inferior beta natives BTFO many years ago

no, nigger

>It's not been going on for "over a century."
Its existed since the Monarchy was deposed. so yeah, over a century.

> Hawaii was annexed due to shifty white people taking over it's economic and governmental functions
With support from the US ambassador to Hawaii.

>enabling statehood years later when the entire island chain had been effectively westernized and dependent on American imports
You mean after natives became a minority and White Americans basically took over completely.

> There is no debate because the whole state economy would shit itself immediately if Oahu alone lost its military income support and federal funds
While it will definitely be problematic, I think you're exaggerating.

>and everything had to suddenly rely on a localized market
Why? Britain kept importing and exporting stuff post Brexit.

>That's not assuming some other superpower would just move in and annex the island by force
Not gonna happen. US will prevent that because it doesn't want anyone else in there. if anyone will Invade Hawaii its the US

>Hawaii never lost its sovereignty
How else would you call a situation where you lose your government and a government of foreigners is placed instead and the natives lose voting rights?

>>Hawaii is strategically vital to our military presence in the pacific
US military had bases in Hawaii (most notably Pearl Harbor) even before Hawaii lost its independence. You had military presence even before Hawaii was annexed.

It should be demoted to a territory so they can't fuck up mainland elections that don't concern them while they act like uppity pineapple niggers on their own isolated islands.

FUCK HAWAII

Fine, but we take back all of our military and equipment.

Hawaii should be underground Tsar Bomba'd so a larger island is created from the massive eruption it causes.

Dont forget to take all the Haoles you brought too.

Inb4 native hawaiians start to starve and request supplement from the main land.

If Hawaii starves its will be because the US shifted it economy from food production to tourism after WW2.

Don't be a nigger then? lol. Don't blame the U.S. because people on the big island decided to turn away from agriculture and self sufficiency and instead ingest crystal meth and crack cocaine at alarming rates.

First of all, Hawaii had a huge food INDUSTRY not just agriculture. It processed food and canned it, It was an industrialized nation. Second Have you even read anything previous posted on the thread? Hawaii didnt choose to move away from agriculture, the US government because they chose to develop Hawaii as a tourism spot. this was before Hawaii achieved proper statehood and was merely a US territory (meaning NO voting right. they didnt have any control over the situation)

Hawaiians are so fuckin stupid. I wish we would up and leave and let your retarded obese lazy fuck faces kill yourselves. Yeah, the acquisition of you island was shady as fuck. Oh fuckin well. If you honestly think you're stupid fuckin government would last a week without the US you're fuckin lying to yourself.

Ha ha so young and stupid.

>
>If Hawaii starves its will be because the US shifted it economy from food production to tourism after WW2.
And all the bitching in the past ten years from academic and local sources has been nothing but sustainable farming initiatives and localization, but your pipedream idea of getting everyone not Hawaiian off the islands doesn't take into account all the assholes who'd starve without imports because you STILL wouldn't have enough land to farm without dust bowling yourselves to death.

America fucked you, so now you're fucked either way; pedantic bitching isn't going to change anything for your hole of a state. Did America demand you build an incompetent railway project that cost taxpayers billions? That was all Hawaiian ingenuity right there, underestimating costs and going doubly over budget. And I bet it's America's fault for the aggressive urbanization of Honolulu by granting developers a practical free reign to throw up overpriced condos to generate tax from investors and tenants, too.

You fucking people would still be wearing grass skirts and hiding in bushes, terrified of the sun and worshipping trees and dirt, if it wasn't for western colonization jumpstarting your shit.

How does it fuck up elections... it’s more consistently Democrat than cali....

Those 4 votes is huge too

Native Hawaiian here.

The debate has been going on forever, but it’s mostly young kids that had nothing to do with it to start with.

They’re the same as the niggers that want reparations.

And an independent Hawaii is about as plausible as ditching the electoral college. Or thinking antifa and anarchism will eventually win.

After all, Hawaii is a military installation 1st, and a state 2nd in the eyes of the government