EVERYONE LISTEN UP

EVERYONE LISTEN UP.

Put aside your political standpoint for a moment. For the sake of this thread, let's imagine there is no "Left or Right." Right here, right now, politics aren't relevant. In this thread i want to discuss your personal opinions on guns in America. Tell us what you think, how you feel, and provide evidence if you are trying to prove a point. Let's try to keep this a civil discussion. Insteading of wasting energy on trying to prove someone wrong, use that energy and tell us why you are right. Keep an open mind. Listening is learning, if you aren't willing to listen, you will never learn. There are a lot of people in this world with a lot of opinions, i want to listen, i want to learn. I will start.

I am a male in my mid-20s. From New York. I've been shooting since the age of 7. A skill passed down through the generations of my family. By the age of 13 i was a registered hunter after taking a 15 hour safety course and written test. By the age of 16 i was an amateur marksman and competition with 180 hours of firearm training behind me. By 20, i became a professional at the sport. I have never killed anything in my life, i have never shot an animal, and i have never had any intention of harming any living creature. Not that i am against hunting, i just prefer inanimate targets. I believe that in addition to being a great sport and tradition in American, owning a gun is almost a necessity for self-defence. People who live in middle to upper class communities DO NOT experience tragic events as often as some other places such as the middle east, where war is a day-to-day occurrence. Living in a first world suburban town, you almost forget that the real world is a cruel and vicious place.

The point i'm trying to make? (Continued)

Death, war, corruption, crime, rape, murder, etc... these are REAL THINGS. Bad people all of the world will always find a way to get the weapons they want. Guns, knives, explosives, etc... people have been killed with less... By taking away guns from the HEAVY MAJORITY (both left and right advocates) you are leaving a heavy majority of GOOD STANDING citizens (such as myself) DEFENCELESS, in a world where EVIL will always exist, no matter what. Furthermore, i believe that if the government can take away our 2nd amendment right, that means that they can take away ANY of our rights. And if they can take away any right at any given time, than they aren't rights, they are privileges. That means that we are no longer FREE. That's right. America;AKA FREEDOM will no longer be FREE. This will turn into a totalitarian state.. and i think we can all agree that FASCISM is not what we want, we all know how that turns out. My solution? For those of you who have never shot a gun before, i encourage you to go to your local range and take a class. LEARN about firearms first hand before you make any irrational assumptions. LISTEN to other people's personal stories and opinions, try to LEARN something new in the process. Your perspective is just that, YOURS. We have dozens and dozens of laws in place making int difficult for good standing citizens to get guns, especially in New York. Extensive background and physiological tests could be set in place, making it EVEN MORE difficult to get guns, and separating good standing citizens from potential threats. Will this stop everyone? no. A good standing citizen can lose his mind the next day. The goal is to desaturate the chances of that happening. Remember, nothing is absolute. After all, even hand sanitizer only kills 99% of germs.

Restricting weapons by lower the capacity and extending the frame will do nothing. I can reload almost as fast as i can pull the trigger. 10-5 round magazines is still 50 shots. These types of restrictions are a waste of time and lead to things such as the Bump Stock. People will ALWAYS find a way.

I feel like if all guns were banned, the bad people could get them and the good people couldn't have them. That scares me.

Make permit harder to get and if people are found witrhout permit , they face HARSH punishment . All sellers required to ask for permit

That scares me too.

Absolutely. That's basically how it goes. I think enforcing that even more may help separate the better standing civilians from potential threats. This, however, will never be foolproof.

bump

fucking liberals ...

>Bump Stock
should be illegal. should have to be destroyed. anyone caught with one should go to jail for some time.

high capacity magazines should be illegal. should have to be destroyed. anyone caught with one should go to jail for some time.

Future German mass shooter here, how does that work, why is it a problem?

Permit for what specifically? FFL, conceal carry, drivers license?

A gun is a tool. A very effective one in the right hands, also a very dangerous one in the wrong hands.

But a tool being dangerous doesnt mean that the tool should be destroyed. It means that users of said tool should be more educated and supervised.

i agree as far as the Bump Stock goes. The point that i'm trying to make is that restricting gun modifications will lead to the invention mods that are "ways around" said restrictions. The bump stock is unnecessary, where as (from personal experience) magazine capacity is basically irrelevant. Lowering the amount of bullets in a single magazine will do nothing if you have multiple magazines. Reloading is a very quick and simple thing.

>muh guns
>I need them to protect muh freedom

If you, americunts, consider your guns a tool to fight oppresion, why aren't you taking armed action against banks, corporations and media that fuck you up the ass much more than the government?

Why aren't you taking the streets and fighting against oligopolies, against financial speculation and forced debt?

Your country is run by a corporate oligarchy that gives a shit about all of you. The gun makers you defend have brainwashed you and taken advantage of your second amendment only to maximize profit.

You're being cuckolded by the a small group of people that runs everything.

Be a patriot and use MUH GUNS to destroy those powers.

Otherwise we, the rest of the world will keep laughing as you keep killing yourselves.

This must be how it felt to other nations to watch the roman empire fall: entertaining as fuck.

Get the fuck out of here.

Every single thing. At the same time, immunity and good money offered for any illegal thing. Large federal program to reduce the density of this shit

Great statement.

...

Doesn't work, see this and the next mass shooting. The old way just doesn't work at all.

Take switzerland for example.
I am afraid thats just delusion for us the 'freedom' part. We will never stand up nope.
Even our political and electoral system is screwed.

No seriously, what does it do?

>"hey guise, let'z nut imagien left or rite"
>spews the right's garbage talking points and logic
gg fag

Its the same with the truck argument - A maniac will find a way to hurt people, be there guns available or not.

What utopia are you from where your people never kill each other?

>I Have No Idea WTF I'm Talking About
- By

Let's say we pass a law that bans something. What it is, is irrelevant to this argument. Let's say that it's something obviously meant to save lives.
Used to be, by the time the ink dried, there were already people spending their every waking moment thinking up some way to get around the law. And they would stop at nothing to get around it. These days, they don't even wait that long, they're involved in the very law making process itself - always trying to create loopholes for themselves.

That's the state we're in today. The criminals are writing the laws and the rest of us sheep are being slaughtered (figuratively and literally). We are going to need a revolution in this country. But after seeing the kind of crazy nutjobs that live all around this country, I really fear what would come after a revolution. America is just one revolution away from Iran. We seriously are.
We might not have some religious caliphate, but we'd be just as fucking crazy.

We can hardly ban cars, but we can easily ban or reduce the density of legal and illegal guns. But yes, lets do nothing.

Less guns around = less shooting crimes. People don't murder so often in countries other than USA. Just because a stupid man has no access to weapons in stores is enough to make a difference. There are many stupid men.

We agree. We know. We are aware. We do nothing because we act in self defence. These oppressions are not necessarily violent actions putting our lives in immediate danger. Our right is designed to stand up against tyranny. Modern America is not that. The day the government shows up at my door with a gun and threatens my life is the day i take up arms against the government. Thing is, the people the government would send to kill us, are US. WE, are the military. WE, are the police. WE, will not shoot up our own homes or allow government violence to be enforced.

The stock allows the lower receiver to move back with each shot instead of a spring in the butt stock. Pretty much you keep your finger held down and the whole rifle moves to fire it's self.

shut it, dirty commie

White suburbia.

Why do Americans want mentally unstable people to easily buy firearms? I know that we all have our 2nd amendment rights but it's a no brainer as to why people with depression, schizophrenia, bpd, etc shouldn't be allowed to own guns, right?

Also I believe that very thorough background checks should be a requirement for any sort of gun and it should be equal across all states. One can easily acquire a gun in Arizona or Nevada and just smuggle it into my state of California.

inb4gunhatinglib.

I might lean heavily on the left side but I do love shooting my M1911 and Mosin Nagant rifle for recreational purposes in the desert.

Like it or not, gun owners also offer a line of defense for non gun owners. If you're personally in favor of not owning a gun, more power to you. Please don't take away my right to having friends who are able to defend me and those around me. I genuinely appreciate the protection, as I am unarmed myself.

I also would gladly take anyone to the range who is anti-guns, so we could learn from each other. I personally would like to see more gays and lesbians who took up firearms in defense of their friends and families.

Thanks mate, sounds crazy.

It isn't as easy as you'd think. Nothing is absolute.

Sellers require a background check from buyers and enforce it or face many years in prison, yes even at gun shows. Atf is all over these sellers, and keep a tight record of FFL's. Felons of even non violent crimes can not own modern firearms. I can post evidence but my claims are easily researchable. I'm my opinion it's not a problem with monitoring gun owners and potentials. You can only go so far until you invade people's right to privacy anyway. It's a problem with a lack of security, and lack of police in bad areas. You can't stop all tragedy. You take all the guns away then a person will just make a bomb

It was for Australia, m8.

I like this guy ^

...

Guns should not be regulated, at all.

We have firearms for a very specific purpose that clashes with the rest of the world and even some of the locals. Our firearms are there for ensuring that Citizens of the United States are the final authority. We the people are the masters of our country, not the government, not the UN not anyone else.

People tend to argue that the Founding fathers only meant muskets and never knew that there would be something like the AK-47. It doesnt matter,

Noah Webster said "But what is tyranny? Or how can a free people be deprived of their liberties? Tyranny is the exercise of some power over a man, which is not warranted by law, or necessary for the public safety. A people can never be deprived of their liberties, while they retain in their own hands, a power sufficient to any other power in the state. . . .

Another source of power in government is a military force. But this, to be efficient, must be superior to any other force that exists among the people, or which they can command: for otherwise this force would be annihilated, on the first exercise of acts of oppression. Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom of Europe. The supreme power in American cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretence, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."

(continued)

100%, another great statement.

(continued)

The short of it being that the citizenry should be as powerful or more powerful than the military of the country. It doesn't matter that maybe the founding fathers didn't know about AK-47s or AR-15s because the second amendment isn't about guns, it is about having equal or more force than the government can control. It always has been and always will be.

So i say again that there should be no regulations or restrictions on firearms.

In Modern times no group of politicians / government officials are stupid enough to be 'CLEARLY tyrannical'
They are subtle about it, they already have the power.
And using the word 'WE" like that wont make a damn difference when you get labelled as a domestic terrorist or any number of things they can label you.
Freeze your accounts, monitor calls and easily take you and anyone you contact with out.
Seriously.
They will never be that obvious.

>"ways around" said restrictions
what if the law was written in a way that said a sort of blanket statement like "don't increase the firing rate in any way by mechanical/electrical enhancement?"

of course, criminals will be criminals, and won't care, so i dunno. it's like outlawing some narcotics- they will still be available for the right price if you know someone.

oh well, got popcorn and watching the show. how it ends, i don't know.

I respect where you're coming from. I've grown up around mature, responsible, and law-abiding gun owners. I'm for background, psych evals, and even credit checks.

I still have to admit, this latest guy throws all that in the shitter.

I've never heard anyone on the left vocally and repeatedly advocate the confiscation of guns, only conservative talking heads claiming that they're advocating the confiscation of guns.

Distrust Fox and CNN equally y'all.

Hand sanitizer kills 99% of the germs DEPENDING ON THE MICROBIAL STRAINS THE SCIENTISTS IN THE LAB DECIDE TO EXPOSE TO IT WHILE TESTING.

I love you all.

Yes, but we already have millions of guns in circulation. People will not only hide firearms under the radar (incriminating themselves) but they will also SELL them on the black market long before they are handed away. If you are from Australia, that is a very impressive thing you guys achieved. Here? a full blown ban CAN NOT happen.

YOU HAD ONE JOB

you did a whole lot of talking just to say "criminals have guns so non criminals should have them too"

i'll keep my point simple. the US is too far along in this idea that everyone should bear arms just to suddenly strip it away now. it will NEVER work. guns are embedded in our history.
it's like trying to get cell phones banned. it will never happen. the motion is already set in place.

RIght, but who will enforce their power? The people they are taking guns from are the same people who work for them.

Why? Bottom line is that a country is safer and less violent without guns, but the NRA has a too solid grip on the USA for the laws to ever be changed. As a result, a lunatic will do a mass shooting every day forever.

Pretty much and it wont be one revolution either.
many small ones each with their own views.
We are super divided

>that means that they can take away ANY of our rights
>our
>commonwealth spelling
sage

Nothing should be regulated by government. We should rely on free markets to regulate everything. Don't like pollution? Simply don't buy from polluting companies. Don't like guns? Simply don't buy any. Don't like abortions? Simply don't get one.

No debate needed. 2nd amendment, my right, my choice, no one else's. Want mine will have to take it from me.

What an absolute freighter load of bullshit.

Thing is, short of full firearm confiscation, you're not gonna do jack to end mass shootings in America...

And you're not going to get Americans to agree to full firearm confiscation...

Setup a federal program: offer immunity and good money in cash for every illegal gun. You want to reduce the density.

We have been trying, and we will keep trying. We can only hope we reach a middle ground. There is (literally) only so much you can do.

Ban bump stocks, make it harder for people to aim weapons if they're really bent on auto fire.

>women bleed two weeks out of the month, so men should too.
Yeah, you're argument is that stupid.
>inb4 *your*
ha ha, triggered, faggit.

Well said.

The NRA was original very pro-gun control. They supported regulation of firearms, and laws to that effect.

It wasn't until 1977, when Harlon Carter was appointed VP, that they started getting into politics, and got in bed with the conservative party.

then it was all about "muh freedoms".

So yeah..... You say "ignore left and right", but no. Not until the NRA removes every trace of influence it has. Until then it's about the right pushing "freedom" over human life

Exactly, we can't even agree to get all the goddamn illegal Mexicans out.

>go to your local range and take a class
what kind of money do you think i have??

Lets make knifes that don't cut, cars that don't drive straight, or forks that dont fit in your mouth.

Right wing drivel.

All these fucking murrifats spouting
>"but muh amendments"

No one thinks that they were made a LONG ass time ago, for essentially different weapons (as the guns have vastly evolved)

Not only that but the fact that most other major cities/countries in the world have guns banned, why not fucking the US too?

>"oh but muh rights"
No. That's not a fucking excuse.

ALL guns should be banned. Period. How it's always been pretty much everywhere else, but no, the Americunts all want to be special snowflakes trying to defend themselves from the dindus and kids that like shooting schools.
You ban the guns and you will have fucking peace.

>hurr hurr your points are flawed bc...
I really dont care, the only thing that would really happen if they tried banning the guns would have all the hillbillies and every other snowflake rioting...
America is such a shitshow theres no point even debating it.

>inb4 hurr hurr u know nothing

Speeding and drunk driving kill tons of people a year. I propose that no car should be able to go over the speed of 70 MPH and all cars should be outfitted with a breathalyzer starter like when you get a DUI. That way no one can speed or drive drunk.

Oh fucking well. If you believe in any rights then they all are kept. Get over yourself already.

That is an interesting idea, offer reward. You gave me something new to think about.

All politics aside, I know deep down in side you love President Trump with a passion. He is not racist or sexist or fascist in any way... right?

>guns don't kill people, people kill people.
But people with guns kill more people than people without guns.

>You don't need a gun to kill someone, crazy people will use anything to kill someone
But a crazy guy with a gun is way more dangerous than a crazy guy without a gun.

Mass shootings are defined in the US as any shooting killing more than 4 people. According to this standard, the Las Vegas shooting was the 274th mass shooting in the US this year.

THIS - DOESN'T - HAPPEN - ANYWHERE - ELSE - IN - THE - WORLD.

Guns may not create violence, but they enable it greatly, allowing it to escalate to crazy proportions.

Draw your own conclusions from there...

Can any of you guys imagine what Vegas would have looked like if everybody was carrying a concealed weapon? Everybody would whip their shit out trying to be heroes the moment bullets go flying and it would have been a bloodbath on the ground as well.

Everybody having guns is nice in theory but the truth is 98% of us regular civilians aren't trained to handle these sort of situations. We might be able to nail everything on the gun range but when you're getting shot at and adrenaline's pumping, that's a whole different story.

Get a job faggot, it costs like, $30 plus prize of ammo.

Of course not.
Quit watching all the fake news alphabet channels.

>Mentally unstable
Because half of the people who live comfortably under the protection this country provides them literally believes anyone who voted for Trump is mentally unstable. Poof, no guns for Trump supporters. That's why your strawman bullshit argument is stupid.

The biggest mass shooting in the US saw 59 dead people and took 34 minutes of shooting.

A guy with a truck killed 74 in 3 minutes in France.

People will find a way to kill people. Draw your own conclusions.

If those people are properly trained they wouldn't be just drawing and firing. They would know to look for the source of the incoming fire before trying to return fire.

My opinion amounts to this: the populace needs to be armed to oppose tyranny. I just disagree with how tyranny is made manifest.

In the past, assaults on workers protesting for their own rights have been attacked by the police and military. It's not unthinkable for it to happen again, either in the near or far future. The ability to retaliate for economic justice is key to avoiding this.

You sound like someone who has never shot a gun.

OK well heirs my story. I am now 20. I went shooting when I was like 16. I only ever shot a gun once. Which was a 12 gauge shot gun at clay targets, skeet shooting. I wasn't very good. So now I hate guns. And I dont believe other people should have them. IfI cant hit a fucking clay target i the hair. then one should have any kind of fire arm. No exceptions. Including the police and military. They can use knifes. Criminals can use knifes.

Since you love President Trump so much it is no wonder why you want to get rid of guns. You love the sound of Dictator Trump!

Shut up libtard. Its my right! MY RIGHT!

This August, Oregon passed a law allowing the state to confiscate firearms. It does state that the individual must be judged an imminent danger either to themselves or to others, but 1 judge gets to make that determination. Is someone who is depressed a danger to themselves? Does a veteran with PTSD constitute a danger to others? Conservatives (not unjustifiably) see laws like this, with vague definitions that rely on someones subjective determination of the legal criteria as being the 1st step to stricter regulation that will infringe on our 2nd Amendment rights.

I might have a strong dislike of Trump supporters but I don't believe they're mentally unstable nor do I know anybody who thinks that they are mentally unstable. I'm talking people who are actually diagnosed (by a professional, none of that tumblr shit) as mentally unfit to own a firearm.

It's great, so long as civil servants can maintain an enforceable environment.
We blame the government for roads sucking, but not for keeping ahead of civilian armament with non-lethal enforcement.

Maybe Eurofags are just jealous that we can live out our ultimate video game fantasies of shooting dope guns and dope targets, a freedom they will never have because their government is just as shitty as everyone elses.

This is literally the best argument anyone has ever made for the second amendment.

i live in a wealthy white left suburb and don't care about how other people use guns
guns are toys, i don't have any personal interest in playing with these kinds of toys but if other people want to, that's fine

that's how the majority in this area feel as well

>retaliate for economic justice
So now we have EJWs along side SJWs.
Fuck me but this country is going all to shit fast.

I love guns. I CCW daily. cold dead hands , etc.

Quite the opposite. We're the "2nd amendment folk" who would have made sure Trump became POTUS.
You mad?

This, right here.

corporate Democrat shill spotted

Come and take them commie.

Well i was trying to give the guy grounds to say he needed weapons to prevent a Trump Dictatorship, but he never manned up to say it. I guess he figured the gun community would stand up to fight for him.

Hey I have no problem with guns as someone on the left, I just think people should have training before they get one. You said you've been shooting since 7? That's fantastic. I want guns in the hands of those people.

What I DON'T want, is every careless asshole who wants a gun can get one. People can't even fucking use their turn signals, but they are somehow responsible gun owners?

I just think there's SOME middle ground we can find. I don't want gun collection, I don't want guns banned, but I think there's something, somewhere we can at least DISCUSS going forward.

>they were made a LONG ass time ago, for essentially different weapons

That doesn't matter. It didn't matter before, it doesn't matter now; Alexander fucking Hamilton sent a referendum asking if his personal warship's cannons were covered under the 2nd Amendment, and they indeed were...

>No. That's not a fucking excuse.
You're right... It isn't an excuse; it's the law of the land, and it's gonna take a whole hell of a lot to get rid of that law; our founders made sure of that for a fucking reason....

>ALL guns should be banned.
Except they won't ever be... The technology is here and has been for a good long while. In fact, it's REALLY easy to build a gun out of shit you can find at a local hardware store... From stock to shot, absolutely everything can be had at your local Ace, Lowe's, Menards, Harbor Freight, wherever....

So, what then? What's your answer to a band of fascists with homemade weapons overthrowing the now-disarmed governments of the world and crowning themselves God-kings of forever?

Or are you just simple?

>only thing that would really happen if they tried banning the guns
... would be civil war... A lot of Americans will choose to die on their feet, than live on their knees... In fact, entire states would leave the union... And really, the states that would leave are all the food producing states, whilst all the most urban states would be killing each other for stale sawdust bread inside six months.

>Puts one truck attack in front of hundreds of shootings.

Thanks for making my point.

The conclusion drew itself : no guns is better than guns.

Thank you for watching.