Almost every single known indigenous culture recognizes the power and importance of psychedelic substances

>Almost every single known indigenous culture recognizes the power and importance of psychedelic substances
>Modern Western civilization demonizes and outlaws it

How did we get so sick and lost?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
youtube.com/watch?v=4ekkXrfmPM8
google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=spiritual but not religious collegehumor
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Western civilization is way up it's own ass with the idea of empiricism. It basically relegates everything non-quantitative to the garbage bin.

Personally, I believe in the idea of spiritual experiences through art, meditation (or praying if you wanna call it that), and hallucinogens (if you're mentally sound enough for them). I believe this in spite of being 100% nonreligious

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars

...

Dude weed lmao

>Greatest achievement by indigenous cultures: canoes
>Greatest achievement by Western civilization: walked on the moon

I'm gonna go ahead and say who cares about outlawing drugs. Sobriety is a-ok with me.

Look how far those civilizations came. Aboriginals lived in australia 6 million years before whites and they stoll couldnt learn agriculture.

fuck off junkie

big pharma kikes need their shekels

That's not true at all. I mean, I'm sorta cherry picking here, but the Maya grew an empire comparable to the Roman Empire and were able to schedule when Earth was closest to it's galactic center long before telescopes were ever invented

Modern civilization is obsessed with physical accomplishments because they have no connection to anything else anymore.

People only want to escape into artificial worlds when they're miserable

If you're not a fucking dumbass, you can imbibe in entheogens to your heart's content and gain all the spiritual insight it entails without gettin *hur-dur busted bitch*
Part of the fun in my experience is the chase. Partaking outside the law seemingly adds to its "other experience," sorta like stepping out of the world.
Well, depends on your perception of the experience I guess.

>drugs or civilization

2 real 4 me

I hope you realize that those physical accomplishments are representations of a multitude of intangible accomplishments made in many fields of scientific theory. They literally represent our mastering of our understanding of time and space.

Keep getting connected with nature by doing drugs 24/7, retard.

Define "artificial."
And why do you assume it's "escaping?" Just because you like doing something doesn't mean you're escaping from something else. If you say you like going to jazz concerts I'm not going to assume you're trying to use saxophones to drown out the memories of your early childhood rape trauma.

>ut the Maya grew an empire comparable to the Roman Empire

Not even fucking close. Get the fuck out of here.

The bird is the word
youtube.com/watch?v=4ekkXrfmPM8

White people ruined it. Now there shooting up heroin.

Aboriginals were too backwards even for drugs.
>That's not true at all. I mean, I'm sorta cherry picking here, but the Maya grew an empire comparable to the Roman Empire and were able to schedule when Earth was closest to it's galactic center long before telescopes were ever invented
This.
>whites aren't an indigenous race
Where did they come from? The fucking sea?
Not an argument. Like, I get your point but you're kind of arguing for the other side.

White people have no souls, what else is new.

>Sup Forums unironically defending big pharma kike "DURR DRUGS ARE EBIL" propaganda

man they really indoctrinated you good didn't they?

>mayan comparable to roman
kek

It's funny how people dismiss these substances and talk about them as if they understand without even trying them. And it's a pity too. The world would be a better place if there was more LSD and mushrooms.

But it is an argument. You're trying to cite physical accomplishments as a reason to assert the superiority of one culture over another, and I'm arguing against that by pointing out it's just one kind of domain and that it's actually a sign of our culture's weakness how that's the *only* domain anyone cares about.

Your own existence is so miserable that you need to be out of it for life to be tolerable. Why do you think people are pushing to legalise weed? They're miserable and can't take it

>its ok when alcohol does it :^)
also why should escapism be illegal?

The problem is that "CONNECTION WITH NATURE, MAN" is kind of... ephemeral? Non-quantifiable? Unimportant? One of these.

Except any and all religions that are still alive today put heavy emphasis on sobriety. Maybe a few shamanist and fake religions like Rastafari are still left? Meanwhile all these aboriginal religions are long dead. What's your point? That psychedlics make a society weak?

Why do you assume there's an aversion to something else motivating the enjoyment and/or valuing of psychoactive substances? If someone said they liked playing the guitar or programming hobby projects would you assume they were motivated by an aversion to something else too?

is there anything more boring than stoners?

If the 18th century German Catholics didn't need psychedelics to create baroque art and Motzart, then why should we need them?

There's no promoting spirituality on a societal scale, at least genuine spirituality. It's up to each individual to form their own goals for "spirituality" or "enlightenment" regardless of the traditional values of their culture

You do realize that the physical world is the only one that exists right? There are no spiritual achievements because spirituality is just a fantasy created by the human mind.

Talk about bluepilled

Talk about delusion.

>Modern Western civilization demonizes and outlaws it

Incorrect, I work for a fortune 500 company as a white collar professional, me and most of my colleagues regularly ingest LSD-25

I'd say more we should aim for having the type of society that doesn't cause people such significant psychological distress that they need to escape it. Mind you, I've done weed and salvia and stuff before so I'm not coming at this from a "WELL I HEARD" point of view

Because there's a difference between enjoying hobbies and being so miserable that you can't even be happy with your own mind

google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=spiritual but not religious collegehumor

>the physical world is the only one that exists

I will point out an example that is neither religious nor physical: the world of abstract objects. I program for a living and most of what I think about each day is something non-physical. Abstract objects which don't exist the way rocks or animals do but which are nonetheless real enough to be worked with in a way that reliably yields products which are valuable enough to indirectly keep me fed and pay for my shelter.

You're the delusional one friend

Shrooms are sort of legal. You can buy the spores legally but growing them is a crime. That being said, you wouldn't get caught if you told nobody.

Yea they were on other drugs like morphine and opium

>there's a difference between enjoying hobbies and being so miserable that you can't even be happy with your own mind

I agree. But why do you assume the enjoyment of psychoactive drugs is always going to have being so miserable you can't be happy with your own mind as a secret motivation? I don't see where you're getting that from. I'm sure that's the case for certain individual people at certain specific times in their lives, but I don't see a reason to believe it's the reason for all psychoactive drug use.

Why? Because I accept my surroundings and don't have to day dream?

>Almost every single known indigenous culture recognizes the power and importance of psychedelic substances

and look where it got them. oh right.

Mayans discovered some of the advanced mathematics, and you need to establish your math and physics foundation before you can ever launch a satellite into space

>I'm a faggot and I work with faggots and we do faggot drugs together before faggoting around.

Thanks leaf.

>and look where it got them.

Happy, healthy, prosperous, and in harmony with the Earth?

doing psychs every once in awhile isn't exactly escaping every day life is it?

Because your ignorant of the world beyond what we experience. The human mind only experiences a miniscule amount of the world.

Almost every indigenous culture has to rely on foreign aid because the people are too stoned to take care of themselves.

>Almost every single known indigenous culture recognizes the power and importance of psychedelic substances
And look how far they got with civilization, even when left alone by western civilization until modern times. Wasting your time trying to find meaning in hallucinogenic-induced visions ensures your people continue living in mudhuts.

I do not illusion myself with what is not there. I practice mindfulness, not delusion. Take your shit back to >>/x/ where you belong.

The difference between spiritual and religious is that I don't believe in religious doctrine or in a god. I just occasionally contemplate the sublime immensity, complexity, and mystery that is nature both on Earth and in the cosmos. That, to me at least, is spiritual.

Also pic related

>man literally had to content with living on the ground for his whole existence
>his body's limits precluded ever going too high in Earth's atmosphere, let alone past it
>whether in the form of Icarus or Jules Verne's fiction, man has longed to know about the world outside of his reach
>man adds together all of the biology, all of the chemistry, all of the physics, astronomy, and more that he has and transcends his flesh's weakness to actually go into space and top the wonder of the flying machine

>dude, there was nothing empowering to the human spirit about it. it was all just material, maaan.

>takes another hit so he can change his brain's chemistry for a little while to trick it into feeling happy and thinking that it is having deep thoughts.

*contend. Damned phone.

>Moved from one point to another point in space.

Really profound.

We stopped putting druggies to death on sight

>Sitting in the dirt and chanting while off your ass on DMT
vs
>Making great scientific advancements to understanding our universe and environment
There's a reason abos and niggers were conquered so easily, you degenerate stoner.

>Moved from nowhere to nowhere
>WOOOW dude so deep i am really a true poet now

Feel free to move to a shitskin area and do your wonderful spiritual drugs with them.

>le noble savages meme

You realize the people of most cultures lived in mud huts and shat in the streets right?

Says the man behind a computer screen posting on an anonymous image board.
My Lord, the irony..

>Technological achievement is inherently good
How are those suicide rates in developed countries doing? Oh wow, they're way higher than in other places. It's almost as if technology isn't spiritually fulfilling by itself

yoyoyo red-pill me on los drugas

Severely underrated post.

Repilleame en las velaaaas
I heard that the biggest drug is the suicide, try it one day

Which civilization won? Oh right, white civilization.

Take your hippie shit back to your reserve you welfare parasite scumbag.

No, it's the consequences of political incompetence and it's effects on society that are causing them idiot. If I were debt ridden and unemployed, I'd off myself too.

Do they not have arguments in Paragay?

Notice any differences in the general stability of modern civilization versus those primitive cultures?

The primitive cultures are effectively dead because they believed the bullshit that they saw with their polluted minds.

Now modern civilization approaches death in that same way...

Wew lad

>consequences of political incompetence
Oh so Japan is run poorly run but Jamaica and Syria (which are near the bottom of the list in terms of suicide) are perfectly run? Poor argument

>Which civilization won?

Who would win in a fight between Leonardo da Vinci and Muhammad Ali?

"Dude deep lmao" and "muh readheads" isn't an argument

more like Paragay lmao

It is hardly demonized. Most people that I talk to have tried a hallucinogen at least once, and that applies to my friends, my parents and their friends, and even the older people that I work with.

What the fuck are you talking about? I said that technological achievement isn't inherently the most important thing to humanity. I have no idea what you're on about

>all of those indigenous cultures did virtually nothing in hundreds if not thousands of years and developed weird and pointless traditions like shoving sticks into their dicks
>western civilization creates modern science and medicine, dominates the globe

????????

>Japan
>Suicides are because of a lack of spirituality and not the fact that an aging population, overpopulatipn, and rampant cost of living means you have to work 16 hours a day.
Are you genuinely retarded?

So do you think that smoking pot is good in a cultural, intellectual and social way ?

You know that's not what he's saying.

He's saying that the culture in places like Japan is heading in the wrong direction and that the government is complicit in it.

Unsurprisingly, industrialized nations with proper regulations in place to balance work and personal health are very happy.

Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, and Finland are some of the world's happiest countries, for example.

I was debunking the idea that suicide rates come from simply a poorly managed government.

But generally, yes. I think without some kind of spiritual guidence (religious or otherwise) jacks up the suicide rates in developed, secular countries. All that's left is careerism and when that fails, nothing remains.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that dropping a hard skeptical outlook on things that don't show objective, empirical value would be beneficial. This includes drugs, but that's far from my main focus

All of our American "psychonauts" who do large doses of hallucinogens say the same type of shit "we are all one" or "the mother earth spirit is infinite love" but what do these people really bring to the table other than a good story?

Countries like Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Jamaica, and Kuwait have a lower suicide rate than all the countries you listed. Should we model ourselves after them?

Stress is necessary for growth. It inspires people to change and grow. Without stress people would sit and do nothing, feeling unfulfilled but not knowing why. Weak people use escapism to attempt to refuse the spiritual/mental/physical work you need to do, but you can't run from it without having a terrible life.

The spiritual truth of this place is that it is designed to be hard and unequal. The world is the forge and we are the metal.

As far as the drugs, I have found them destabilizing and they weakened my resolve, though they did provide some insight. I have benefitted far more from exercise, good diet, and meditating.

ITT sheltered faggots arguing with druggies

>conquered cultures and lesser peoples imbide psychedelic drugs

>conquerors rape their women

lmao

I can get on board with promoting a curious outlook on life, but drugs have been studied top down over and under. Some of them have helpful medicinal effects but you never need the "high" to achieve these.

>on things that don't show objective, empirical value

Are you suggesting we consider the benefits of worshiping things like wax statues or something? I don't know what you mean by this or why we would do this.

But Japan IS spiritual! Shinto-Buddhism is precent in most Japanese dailey lives. And Japans government IS poorly run. They rely on ever expansion, or else the Japanese economy will stagnate or go into a recession. They also rely heavily on a strong dollar to drive the Yen inflation up to increase government spwnding power. Both of these makes life very costly and difficult in Japan.

B A S E D P O S T
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let's take a moment to appreciate how those cultures and empires endured the sands of time and overcame degeneracy to still exist today

Probably not, since those people are dying so much more often due to crime than the countries I listed that they don't have as any people with the luxury to consider killing themselves.

Well, first there are medical benefits to hallucinogens. Granted they haven't been studied much for legal reasons, early research indicates they can treat addiction, PTSD, anxiety, depression, and a range of psychological disorders.

And what I mean by the objective thing: our culture generally only values things that have a quantifiable, objective result. So things like admiration for art or nature, meditation, and other things that are unarguably spiritually beneficial are relegated to a fringe element.

I think we lose something when we depart from the idea of spirituality. I don't believe in the soul or a god, but I recognize the value of spirituality in and of itself.

They also believe that spirits cause disease.

Dude weed lmao.

I don't take big pharma's drugs or degenerate psychotropics.

What now.

>in harmony with the Earth

I think you just mean:

>in the Earth.


Those civilizations are dead, user.

>he doesn't believe that spirits cause disease
*tips respectfully in your direction"

Yes, we know that the christians who "created Western science" still for some reason can't master the germ theory of disease or the concept of evolution.