Say No to Meat Sup Forums

Say No to Meat Sup Forums

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Thought she was sucking off the cow tbh

FUCK THAT SHIT! BACON!

cant wait until there is a proper war again and because of rationing tards like you will die of starvation first because you "refuse" to eat meat

...

Get your hopes up?

If you were truly compassionate you would acknowledge that plants want to live too. How can you justify the mass-murder of carrots? If you truly cared you would starve yourself to death.

After careful consideration we have decided to accept the terms.

We shall butcher and eat the cow instead.

>wanting the government to be responsible for feeding people
fuck off commie

Plants are not conscious and have no will of their own. If you truly think stabbing a cow is morally equivalent to eating a salad then you are delusional

not eating animals means they cause more damage to the environment using resources they need, just like us. not to mention all the greenhouse gasses produced by cattle alone. step away from your keyboard and leave your echo chamber libtard. either way the planet takes its toll. id just rather have it benifit me than my food

also, deer for instance are hunted in season because they actively destroy wildlife if their population gets out of hand. so if you really love nature go hunt a deer and make no waste of the meat/furs

i eat meat cause i cant stand the sound of plants screaming when being pulled out of the ground

>Say No to Meat Sup Forums

Faggots can vegans cannot shut up about being faggots and vegans...

precisely, vegans can never answer this question, they think we can just stop eating animals and let their population grow crazily out of control with no adverse side-effects. what do they propose we do with the animals after we let them free?

let them destroy the surrounding ecosystem lik NA did with those autistic british red squirrels

Not eating meat would reduce the overall amount of cattle and other farm animals being bred because the demand for them shrinks, so over time less resources are dumped into animal agriculture that could be used elsewhere. This wont happen overnight, and with an average lifespan of 6-9 months for farm animals a change in demand can have effects within a relatively short period of time

Gorwing veggies robs nutrients from the ground.
Growing livestock feed robs nutrients from the ground.
No matter what your existance is killing the earth Sup Forums why not just kill yourself.

so you suggest letting an animal like cattle free? an animal KNOWN to completely decimate landscapes when left to graze in the open

This wont happen overnight, less breeding because of reduced demand for meat will lower the total number of farm animals over time

hey heres a high class guy on /b ... hey mr high class , why are you a vegan? and how gay are you?

>Plants are not conscious and have no will of their own

You don't know that. You have fabricated that story for the same reason that anglers claim that fish don't feel pain when they get stabbed in the face with a hook: because it makes you feel better about yourself. You can no more justify butchering a turnip than I can butchering a pig.

What about medicines that can only be derived from animal prodcuts?

No. reduced demand for meat will reduce the number of cattle being bred. over time there will simply be fewer and fewer cows total

I'm drunk, it's 4 am and iim about to go to Whataburger and get a double meat Whataburger with fries. I'm going to enjoy that fucking dead ass cow in between the two burns.

and how about the economic impact on farming states that entire families live off of cattle farms?
or are your cows more important than wisconsin?

dont be a pussy. replace the bread with pocket bacon

That picture doesnt have a very good understanding of willpower. Willpower is actually the will that is created from choices/goals (often subconscious, but still). So it does come down to willpower. Also, the pic is making a very subjective statement. You could argue that being a vegan is alot less convenient, i am a dietician myself and i can tell you, eating healthy on a vegan diet really isnt that easy. You need to often get your blood tested, carefully regulate b12 supplementation and have a good understanding of all the other nutrients and their sources. And for what? For your emotions. You are sacrificing HUGE convenience because you couldnt properly master your emotions related to unknown random animals.. I would describe that as a possible, tbh.

So then it would be ok to kill braindead people? And would it be ok to kill very primitive animals who dont have a consciousness?

A plant is a lifeform, yes, but it can neither feel pain nor happiness nor has a will of its own therefore we have no obligation whatsoever to take it into consideration. Any life and any death is sufficient for a plant. Only beings with a conscious experience have moral relevance, if you seriously want to argue that a plant has an experience that is equal to that of a dog or a person you lie to yourself.

two trips confirms it, vegans are faggots

This change will take years, probably even decades, more than enough time for those people to get a plan B going. we didnt pander to the horsebreeders and smiths either when cars replaced carriages

Theoretically plants do have a conscioussness. Consciousness is nothing more than a bundle of relfexes. How animals, with their brains have a hugely more complex consciousness than plants obviously, but it basicly is the same thing. Anyway, the point im trying to make is that you are subjectively drawing a line in consciousness based on your own emotions, which is fine, you can do so. But you then go and blame other people for having a different subjective line than you have. Which is just ridiculous. You cant blame other people for not being emotionally touched by eating unknown animals. Do you really want me to pretend/ast to be emotional about eating meat, so that you feel more justified about your own feelings? That basicly is what you are asking, when you are asking people who they arent "compassionate" about animals.

BACON!

>you are subjectively drawing a line in consciousness based on your own emotions, which is fine, you can do so. But you then go and blame other people for having a different subjective line than you have. Which is just ridiculous. You cant blame other people for not being emotionally touched by eating unknown animals. Do you really want me to pretend/ast to be emotional about eating meat, so that you feel more justified about your own feelings? That basicly is what you are asking, when you are asking people who they arent "compassionate" about animals.
This is literally the best argument ever when a vegan tries to convince people.

Im not trying to make a compassionate argument, Not eating cows and pigs because they liik cute when they are babies is stupid. Consciousness emerges in the brain, therefore a plant and some other lower life forms cannot have a conscious experience, a plant releasing some molecules into the air as a warning to other plants because it gets cut is an involuntary reflex, your stomach cramps too when you eat some bad food, but nobody could argue that it is conscious. The "bundle of reflexes" as you put it makes all the difference between moral relevance or not

It doesnt even have to be about consciousness. Its always the same idea. A vegan has X amount of emotional attachedment to animals, which causes him to not want to eat animals at all. Which is absolutely fine, and he's got the ability to do so. My emotional attachedment is different. I, for example, wouldn't eat my own cat, but random animals on a farm that i have 0 personal emotional attachment to.., i really dont care about that. I have absolutely 0 problems with that emotionally. So then when a vegan comes along and basicly asks me: "but i want you to pretend that you do get emotional about eating those animals, because i also have that and i want you to feel the same as i do!", that is just silly. You cant expect the world to adjust to your subjective emotional outlook on things.

Should your own emotional attachment to an animal really matter in how you treat it? When dealing with people we also try to not take personal feelings into consideration, the criminal justice system would go insane if we tried to deliberately punish people based on how hard they hurt us personally. The treatment of lower lifeforms should be held to some moral standard regardless of your own affection for that animal. A cat wants to live painlessly regardless if you love it or not. Can you morally kill an animal that doesnt want to die?

You CAN argue on what consciousness is. There really isnt a set official definition for it. DNA for example, basicly does the same as a brain does. A brain is nothing more than a huge compilation of nerves, or in other worlds, reflexes. A plant has reflexes. It might not have a huge compilation knot of reflexes, but it does have it. Its really impossible to say that "if an organism has x amount of neurons/or other electron transmitting mechanisms lumped together, then we can speak of a consciousness, but if its less, or if they are not lumped together, then its not". There really is not a line there. Consciousness is nothing more than a man made concept of "well, if an organism has about ...... much reflexes bunched together, making it possible for it to think ...... much, then its conscious!" Which makes sense, its a usefull term to use, but its still subjective and not a real thing.

it's not about living off moss in a cave, it's about trying to do as little harm as is feasible/practical in the current world

Yes, it does, there literally is no other way. That is how nature works. A species cannot exist without the expense of other species. The only thing we can do is draw subjective lines based on our own feelings, as a species, to do what WE think is right. Nature itself doesnt really care. Have you ever seen a pack of lions considering whether their diet is morally enough to the other animals? Literally the only reason morals exist, or why we should ever not want to kill other animals, is because WE want it. And we currently are at a phase in evolution were we dont really agree with eachother on where the line is.

>implying any average people have a 'good understanding of nutrients and their sources'
>implying animal products are healthy

just scanning this list, so many of these things aren't made exclusively with animal products. whoever made this is retarded.

>ignoring the fact that it takes a fuckton more plants to feed to the animals one eventually eats

How is it possible that people who are vegan are mostly stupid retarded liberals who at the same time support abortion because Hurrr durr its connected to my body so it's not a murder?

aye you won't be vegan until you are ready to hear the message of it, and a large part of that is the literal feeling of compassion towards those random animals you describe

no one is blaming you for not feeling that, I didn't for the first 26 years of my life, but when I did it became the logical choice

The term on what consciousness defines can be argued, yes. But dont you agree that there is after all a profound difference between a cabbage salad and a cow? Even if we arent exactly sure where the line between those two is drawn we can conclude that one is most definitely experiencing a greater amount of consciousness and misery than the other in the process of being processed to food. Therefore, even if theres something going on inside the plant, it would still be chosing the lesser evil

>but mr edison! what about the lamplighters who are going to be made jobless by the invention of the lightbulb??!!?
>what about the slave owners who will have to pay their employees? it'll devastate their economic model! what about the slavers who will be forced out of business??!?
as time goes on, markets and industries become obsolete, and the people working in them find new jobs. this is a non-issue.

>>implying any average people have a 'good understanding of nutrients and their sources'
absolutely not but an average person just slowly develops cancer, diabetes and heart disease etc, vegans actually have a way higher risk of direct things, like their babies dying, becoming very sick in the relatively short term, etc. The risks simply are larger.
>>implying animal products are healthy
They sure are. Do you actually believe that for an omnivore, eating an omnivorous diet is unhealthy, and that eating a herbivorous diet is better? Nature really isnt that stupid. All the studies that show where vegetarians/vegans are healthier than average were where they compared them to average non healthy conscious people. If you are to compare other
health conscious groups who eat alot of meat, like paleo, or keto, you would without a doubt see that they are also healthier than the average people. Also, every study showing negative effects of meat can be boiled down to high omega 6 content (due to the animals being fed grain instead of their natural food) and hormones etc.

>All the studies that show where vegetarians/vegans are healthier than average were where they compared them to average non healthy conscious people. If you are to compare other
>what are junk food vegans
do you have any proof that these apparently bias studies you haven't even provided links to exclusively pick health conscious vegans, or does it just suit your narrative if they do, so it has to be true?

A pack of lions literally has no choice but to hunt and kill, its either that or starvation. But humans rose above the constant struggle for survival. Morals emerged because we recignized that the thoughts, feelings, happiness and pain within us also exists in other humans and have to be taken into consideration when dealing with eachother. Its now also apparent and feasible to recignize the inner life of other animals and act accordingly. Chosing between a life full of misery and a life with less misery is not something that popped out of thin air, theres causes and effects in our everyday choices far stronger than feelings about it

We can absolutely agree on that, but my point is. We are all just making a subjective border on when something is consciousness enough or not. While the fact is, nature doesnt know good or evil. It all really comes down to what we ourselves think is good or evil, which is largely based on our emotions. And i think we should be going out blaming eachother for having a different opinion on that. If i just genuinly dont care about animals dying, can you actually blame me for that? Should i pretend to care more, even thought i really dont, so that i am not labelled and evil person? Is that just? Am i really evil for having a different emotional connection to other species than you do?

>an average person just slowly develops cancer, diabetes and heart disease etc
directly correlated with animal products, correct
>vegans actually have a way higher risk of direct things, like their babies dying, becoming very sick in the relatively short term, etc. The risks simply are larger.
a b12 pill is literally the only justifiable supplement, and if they're going out of their way to avoid all these animal products they probably care enough to learn how to eat a bunch of different coloured plants
>blah blah Also, every study showing negative effects of meat can be boiled down to high omega 6 content (due to the animals being fed grain instead of their natural food) and hormones etc.
sounds like some real FDA shillery to me, you brainwashed cuck, legit cover yourself your confirmation bias is showing

Im not saying the studies were biased and that they intentionally picked the healthiest vegans. What im saying is that in general, someone who addopts and eating pattern (in this case veganism) is allready, on average, way more health conscious than an average person. So comparing people with a certain eating pattern to average people, really isnt a very great comparison.

Humans rose to the point where we can make a choice yes. A choice on which we currently have global disagreement, that is a very complex subject, and is largely based on personaly emotions. And you are saying that your specific opinion is the right one and that everyone else should adjust to it and if they dont they are evil, and you will keep reminding them of how they are evil people with no morals? Do you really think that is the best of ideas?

they already are.

Hypocrisy. Plants are alive, too, and have been proven to feel pain.

i just did a quick google for why people go vegan, if you can find any which vastly contradict this one feel free to share, but the graph shows the majority do so for ethical, not health reasons. i don't see a 15% minority of vegans who did so for health reasons managing to tip the scales so dramatically. and considering the people who conduct these studies are scientists, i'd imagine they're aware of variables such as this, and would try to control said variables so they weren't comparing a bunch of fatties to vegans.
vomadlife.com/blogs/news/why-most-people-go-vegan-2016-survey-results-reveal-all

Stop creating this fucking thread on Sup Forums its not going to get anyone to stop eating meat everyone here is sociopathic or autistic no one gives a fuck when animals die. Do you know where you are? Son, people here get other people to kill themselves for the lulz.

I'm not blaming any specific person and never will. But I blame the daily choices they make. Can we agree on that there are objectively good and objectively bad choices, not talking about the topic of animals and food now

you've got to feed a lot more of those sensitive sentient plants to a cow in order to raise it up and eat it my nigga

Life
Feeds
On
Life
Feeds
On

Do i really have to lecture you on research methodology... This like these have so so many co factors. For example, people reporting ethical reasons might have that as their main reason, but they might also be, aside from that, interested in the health benefits (not everyone does everything based on 1 reason ever). Also, people making ethical considerations, tend to be more intelligent on average, and more intelligent people on average, also tend to make more conscious health choices, etc etc etc. There is absolutely 0 doubt about the fact that vegans are on average alot more health conscious than average people.

There is no such thing as good and evil. These ar man made tools to create a functioning society they are not intrinsic to any living thing. We are no different or bett we than animals or germs we have no more or less value. I will kill and eat as many as i want as quick as ill kill the germs on my hands when i wash them before i eat my steak.

There is no such thing as objectively good or bad its all subjective depending on the individual perspective.

This is necessary.

So if tomorrow there arrive some aliens on earth and decide to breed and eat us it would be completely fine, right? Just march into the processing facility because good and evil arent true and they are stronger than us so they can do anything

your entire point of view rests on the idea that dietary changes are inherently linked, in some way, to health. do you have any proof for this, or just assertion? also if you look at the graph, you'll see the percentages add up past 100%, so either the survey takers such at maths, or they allowed multiple choices to be picked. which seems more likely?

I tried to say no to my meat but i think its masochistic because my meat always wants its beatings

>But I blame the daily choices they make.
That is really just the same as blaming them personally.
>Can we agree on that there are objectively good and objectively bad choices
Its hard to say what "objective" is when it comes to morals. We have certain subjects, like murder, etc, on which we agree to such an extend as a species/culture, that we see that as commonly accepted, and thus we could call it somewhat "objective" yes.. But a subject like ethicallity of treatment of other species, really isnt a commonly agreed upon moral subject. So we really should just have more respect for eachother untill we reach the point of agreement (which we will not see in our lifetimes, obviously). Blaming others for not having the same opinion as you have on a subject only has adverse effects.

If we don't eat the animals we've specially bred as food we'll just have to cull them. Or turn them into pet food.
Most of them can't survive in the wild and there's no financial justification to keep them all alive until they die of old age.
You need to think things through.

You're confused. Just because evil and good dont exist doesn't mean i will ignore my own existence or my survival instinct.

this argument holds water if you also posit that you have no concern for your own wellbeing / that of your loved ones
if you cede you would prefer that you/your family didn't feel pain and die so some nigger can enjoy your taste then logically you should conclude that it's preferable to not inflict that on other beings

by 'other beings' I mean those with nervous systems developed enough to feel pain/suffering as YOU understand it - so nah not the germs on your hands

So the murderers in the islamic caliphate who behead civilians and destroy their own communities for decades to come are just as alright in their endeavours as the surgeon who makes a blind person see again, good to know.

>You need to think things through
so you're saying it makes sense to rack up another 1,000,000,000,000,000 animal deaths with the sole justification being so we don't have to cull the current ones

Yes m8, do some more googling and youll find that there is plenty of evidence that shows vegans are healthier than average.

Also, not my entire point rests on it. Even if they werent health conscious then the studies still dont prove anything. For all we know a vegan diet turns out to be healthier because it contains more fiber and vitamins etc. That doesnt say anything about if leaving out meat was actually good or bad.

I could put people on a paleo diet with 50% meat, and have them turn out healthier than average because they dont eat sugar and preservatives etc. Does that give me a reason to say eating 50% meat is healthy? Because my group who was healthier happened to eat 50% meat? Ofcourse it doesnt.

My diet is almost entirely composed of meat, so that's not going to happen.

I respect your individuality as a person and would never force lifestyle choices regarding food or anything else upon you, but an open debate about this topic is necessary for everyone to come to terms with the gravity of the situation sooner rather than later. If a person choses to eat meat after being to a slaughterhouse and being familiar with all the realities I can accept their choices, but I will never not tell them their choices are wrong when we talk about it

beyond any real moral concern, from a practical point of view meat is unsustainable. With all the grain and fresh water it takes to feed animals you could feed far more humans. there are many other reasons as well.. Hemp seeds actually contain a range of free amino acids in an optimal ratio for human consumption.

Classic line. Made me laugh.

>Yes m8, do some more googling and youll find that there is plenty of evidence that shows vegans are healthier than average.
>Also, not my entire point rests on it. Even if they werent health conscious then the studies still dont prove anything. For all we know a vegan diet turns out to be healthier because it contains more fiber and vitamins etc. That doesnt say anything about if leaving out meat was actually good or bad.
>I could put people on a paleo diet with 50% meat, and have them turn out healthier than average because they dont eat sugar and preservatives etc. Does that give me a reason to say eating 50% meat is healthy? Because my group who was healthier happened to eat 50% meat? Ofcourse it doesnt.
fair points.

>Hemp seeds

It holds. Nothing has any objective value.

Except that he's full of shit. Literally the only way you can get cholesterol from your food is through animal products. Heart disease, obesity, clogged arteries, all of it is because of meat. So whatever marginal benefit that comes from it is outweighed by that.

Yes

Then you should also be fine with someone else telling you your choices are bad, right? What if i tell you that i consider myself superior to you? I consider it a positive quality that i master my emotions. I think its weak that people have such little mastery over their emotions that they sacrifice convenience and great life pleasures. I think that super advanced alien civilization without a doubt dont let their emotions master them, they accept the reality of nature and just travel through the universe, consuming what they need/like. Compared to this, your mindset is primitive, and pathetic. I honestly am proud that i dont have this childlike emotiona attachment to animals. And i think its quite sad that people like you feel the need to tell the world that you do, and that we should all bring ourselves down to your level, so that you feel better about yourself.

There. I just did what you did. I attacked you on a personal level and tried to make you feel bad about your beliefs. Did that help? That you become a non vegan now? NO you didnt, now stop trying to do the same to me.

to be fair he didn't mention cholesterol, he wasn't making a case for meat being healthy or unhealthy. don't start arguing against an argument he didn't make.

It's not about emotions. Only retards and niggers eat animal products. Why the fuck would you filter your nutrients through extra trophic levels unnecessarily. That's retarded. The only way to consume cholesterol is via animal products. Darwinism is at work, good thing people with no self control are killing themselves off.

so if someone asked you to let them cut your throat right now so they could cook you for tomorrows meal, you would be alright with it because the subjective value you place on your own life is worth nothing in the face of the relative lack of 'objective value'

Cholesterol is correlated with those diseases, its never been shown to be a causation. Cholestrol is the stuff that repairs damage. Saying that cholesterol is the causation of said diseases is like saying a scab is the cause of wounds. And that people who have lots of wounds, must have been due to the scabs. That really is a ridiculous thought.

Another sad example of the feminization of our culture. Once we were proud people who could live off the land or slaughter a chicken or pig we raised in our family farm. Now we're a bunch of squeamish little faggot pussies that can't stand the thought of an animal on the low end of the food chain suffering.

Your movement would gain more traction if you didnt treat it like a religion

I wonder what would happen if all peoples on earth suddenly stopped eating meat.

All those livestock would die of hunger instead of being slaughtered by professionals.

Have you really brainwashed yourself to such an extend that you genuinly believe an omnivorous animal is better off eating a herbivorous diet than an omnivorous? Do you genuinly believe nature is that stupid?

No i have subjective value of my own existence and nothing else.

No, he's questing whether or not vegan is the healthiest lifestyle. Vegan is automatically healthier because it's 0 cholesterol, end of argument.

We wouldn't have evolved into humans if our ancestors didn't eat meat. It's part of what we are. There's absolutely nothing immoral or wrong about it.

>>doesn't take willpower
>>takes a willingness

Willingness means nothing with the willpower to follow through on it. Fuck me why do people not think about what they say.

>>muh muh vague inspirational quote with no logic

What's the deal with all these vegan threads anyway? Did the anti Trump shills get bored and decide to switch it up or is this being shilled unironically?

Please remember this discussion in 20 years when weve realized that blaming cholesterol for heart disease was like blaming scab for wounds. And then be ashamed of yourself, please do.