So, every supposed 'democratic' country in Europe is sucking Spanish cock and supporting a violent and illegal suppression of the Catalans vote for independence.
Now they are planning on using Franco era law to suspend the region's autonomy and have arrested the heads of the pro-i dependence movement.
It's being buried and misrepresented in the press because no-one wants to stand up to the Spanish. It's the shittiest, least democratic collusion of governments since WWII.
So much for your superior European politics you hypocritical wankers.
Thoughts Sup Forums? Or are there too few tits to be of interest here?
you live in a democratic country Comply with the law and everything will go well
Ayden Flores
Don't believe their nazi shit. Many of us, catalans (more than 50%) aren't part of this ultranationalism, but they are more noisy, and now the catalan government changed their views to be pro independentist so they can have progubernamental people thinking with their hearts so they forget about their corruption. Check out who supports them: Putin (sometimes via Assange, who what really wants is to destabilise the EU and the western world), Lega Nord and UKIP. Who doesn't? The rest of the world.
Gabriel Allen
Well, I'm a libertarian, I support any local/regional/state government that wishes to secede democratically from the central power, particularly if it's perceived that central power is doing more harm than good.
But to draw an American parallel amagine the government fury if California, Texas, or the South honestly tried to secede. There would be crazy fascist attempts by the central government in any way possible, including possible war.
Yeah, I believe Catalonia deserves independence. You probably won't get it without a fight though....
Samuel Thomas
So why did they send in military police to snatch ballot boxes and beat people and local firefighters who protested. That's not a representative democracy.
Cameron Jackson
That wasn't how the vote looked.
Alexander Reyes
Yes, it is. Representative democracy is just the jewish term for republic, and republics are just the term for permanent ruling classes. The corporation rules all. Get used to it or agitate for direct democracy without jews in the way. >inb4 but muh mob rule Literally the cry of scared oligarchs afraid they couldn't use the state as their personal fiefdom.
Michael Nelson
There is more than 50% of people, who are not independentist and have to deal with your fascist/nazi impositions. And why did the government of Catalonia send the Catalan Police to peaceful people in the 15-M who were protesting for corruption and public cuts? (this is the same government that shows you and independentist flag to trick you into their nazi shit) youtube.com/watch?v=PAU_5-ypcao
Gabriel Green
Yeah, Putin wants any kind of breakaway in Europe, but he's right when he points out that Europe are all for independence when it weakens non-allied countries.
The region is being milked by Spain for its economic success, why are you so blinded by your greater Spanish nationalism that you are selling your people short?
Jason Morris
Si, nosotros vivimos un una comunidad con leyes votadas por todos los ciudadanos, si te sale de los huevos saltarte la ley se manda a la policía. Y si te resistes a la policía te llevas una ostia. No tiene mas, no vengas de victima.
Noah Morales
Speak English faggot
Nathan Clark
Out of 5.313.564 possible voters in Catalonia, only 2.266.498 voted (less than the half!). And the government ruling who is independentist is less than a half of votes, but again, the fanaticism is more noisy than the rest of us who just want to continue living in peace.
>Spanish nationalism "Spanish nationalism". LOL! Spanish nationalism is a minority, don't lie to us or to yourself! Catalan ultranationalism is much bigger (flags, anthems...), almost 50% thanks to the manipulation of the Catalan TV and the indoctrination at schools (and I am Catalan myself). Now some people are using Catalan+Spanish flags at the same time to support the people who are not independentist, but normally you don't see Spanish flags around (unlike independentist flags).
Joshua Harris
I'm not Catalan or Spanish. Just disgusted following what's been happening online.
Oliver Ramirez
Nationalism is a virus, and the Catalan government knows that it is a way to have pro-government people who will not protest for their corruption and public cuts. Also, the government of Spain knows that while people are entertained with this shit nobody is protesting for the same thing to them. It's a win-win! And some idiots are following these flags.
Mason Morgan
I am Catalan, not independentist, and I am disgusted too. Many people I know, myself included, have moved our money out just in case an independent Catalonia is proclaimed.
The European Medicines Agency (EMA) who is leaving the UK because of the Brexit was going to settle in Barcelona, but now they are waiting to see the outcome of the situation these idiots have provoked.
It's sad to se the nationalism coming back from the XX century.
Jacob Cox
>Democracy >Jewish term
Stopped reading.
Jacob Garcia
So if you are so sure you are in the majority, why did you have to shut down the referendum by force.
I'm also not Catalan.
Cooper Price
you will not divide spain
Lucas Reed
Well, that may have been very insightful. Shame I took French and Latin at school.
Julian Rodriguez
>violent ha >illegal jajajaja
>using Franco era law it's in the constitution >It's being buried and misrepresented in the press because no-one wants to stand up to the Spanish yeah, we are such a powerfull enemy to fear... maybe you idiots are just wrong.
Ian Hughes
Democracy is not voting whenever you want
One of he pillars of democracy is the separation of powers, wich means, if a judge say go fuck yourself, you do
Alexander Cox
Oh get to fuck. You are asking for >50% on the whole electorate as opposed to the actual turnout?
By that yard stick, everyone who voted could have voted yes and it still wouldn't have passed. What about the same ruling for voting for a unified Spain, how do you think that would have gone?
Matthew Wilson
Err..
What if literally NOBODY gives a fuck about nationalism and shitty independantist like it's always been and always will be? Italy here, we have our own clowns (Lega Nord, Serenissima Veneziana, Sicilia indipendente) ... their only intrest is manage to reach the Parlament and sit there eternally, gargling our money and making time pass.
I stress again: fuck you. Whether you manage to be independant or not, literally nothing changes. The same people stays rich enough to make everybody dance to their shitty song. In the end, the only thing which really everyone is after is money. It's nothijg like the '70s, when people had ideals and could shoot you in the head because they truly were ready to die for it. This is the world economists have built for you to stay silent and pay taxes like a sheep, it really doesnt matter who grabs your money, if Spain or Cataluna.
Xavier Ramirez
bumping with hot non-catalan for equality
Liam Carter
non-catalán?
Grayson Scott
some people voted 4 or more times, there's a vote of michael jackson dude... just look the news and search info.
Charles Fisher
She is not Catalan
Parker Sanchez
You are equating nationalism to flag waving. You talk about indoctrination, but you are being bent over by the Spanish government and buttfucked for your resources and are still taking it. You are unwilling to allow your own people a fair and independently monitored vote. You are supporting a suppression of democracy, at the cost of your well-being and those in your region, and you claim Spanish nationalism isn't a thing.
Joshua Cooper
Brit fag here, not my problem.
William Robinson
You are blind. Look how much money Catalonia generates per head and look where the money goes. Spain needs the region and will fight tooth and nail to keep it, fucking over democracy in the process.
Jace Jackson
lol yeah UK has its own shit to deal with
Carter Smith
No, that's true. I don't have a vote. But why fear a fair vote if you are so confident?
Michael Thompson
It's a mutual feeling britbong, grab a lasso and deport yourself over the ocean. You politically belong to Trump and all the redneck freakshow down there.
Andrew Gonzalez
so your trying to divide spain for what reason?
Ryder Morris
Listen Dumshit, article 155 is in the constitution an the constituion is ovbiously Post-Franco era.
Parker Hill
why are these evil Catalans trying to divide spain and cause war ?
Brandon King
For the 50th fucking time... I'm not Catalan you hairy, monobrowed, siesta-having, paella fucker.
I'm an overseas observer with a passing interest in politics. Perhaps it's you who is painfully wrong.
Europe does not want to destabilise anymore following Brexit. No-one wants to fuck off Spain. Not militarily, of course, you're shit at that stuff, but politically you still have a lot of sway.
Anthony Rivera
Don't get rustled, she really isn't catalan
James Walker
Really? Is that what democracy means? Or is that some giant fucking leap of imagination you've taken to try and back up a weak ass argument?
Joseph Foster
She was not born here, but she has lived here many years, she is a Catalan politician. What this is person is doing by writing that is called xenophobia implying she shouldn't be a politician in Catalonia (she is not pro-independentism, but many of us who are Catalan born, and our parents are, and our grandparents... are not pro-independentism either).
Joshua Perry
Uff, I often come visiting threads about your shitty Trump&Hilary and US lardballs always try to send me away because only lardous amerifats can talk about it, seemingly.
So fuck off and take care of your moonshine nigger haters which drag you under the chains of fascism.
Robert Myers
Que te jodan catalufo hijo de puta, no tienes ni idea de lo que es represión y pocos palos se repartieron para partir esas bocas mentirosas, solo sabéis llorar y decir fascismo, me encantaría ver la cara de mierda que se os queda cuando los gilipollas de vuestros jefes os roben en la punta cara y se vayan dejándoos con todo el marron, y como dice un buen amigo mío, Franco resucita, España te necesita. Arriba España y siempre Una, grande y libre
Angel Rivera
You are brainwashed. What about the money the Generalitat spent in corruption, or why it's the region with the most privatised healthcare system (for the foreigners: the healthcare system is managed by the Catalan government, just to let you know how "oppressed" we are by the "centralist" state. Compare it with other "fascist" countries like France, Italy, or Portugal.)
Sebastian Scott
The nazi independentist 47% of Catalans, don't bring the rest of us there.
Jack Russell
Obvious troll is obvious.
Kevin Rogers
Why are people concerned with what European Mexicans are doing?
Anthony Brooks
And I stress again... I'm not Catalan. Jesus fucking Christ .
To an extent you are right, you pay your tax to someone whatever the case. My point being that if a small region is earning the bulk for a large country and that region is being shafted by the government and the balance of investment etc. Is not comparable, why shouldn't it have the right to vote of self rule?
I'll pay the same tax, but that, coupled with a much higher GDP is going to make the quality of life much better for those who have earned it.
John Gonzalez
I posted a picture of that, here it goes again. Many people did that, this guy voted yes 4 times in different schools. Judge yourselves.
Oliver Bennett
Fucking hell. She was born in Jerez, so is not a Catalan.
I posted her photo because she is hot, not to have some idiot start twisting posting her because its xenophobia you fucking cretin.
Jose Lopez
Thanks, Italian friend. I think the same. It's scary how if a regional government is interested in move the masses, with enough money they can do it. Fascism/ultra nationalism is really a virus.
Angel Thompson
I support Catalonian independence! /swefag
Jordan Ross
Many independentist people (not all) use the xenophobic argument to criticise here, if you are from Spain you know that.
Hunter Ross
So run an independently monitored referendum like you were asked, or does that scare you?
I am not from here, but I've lived in Catalunya for a long time. I am actually not a supporter of independence, but I understand why people are.
I posted her because she is hot, not because I was implying she should or should not be a Catalan politician. I actually think that she is more than qualified, since she has shown an interest in Catalan language, culture, history and law since being very young.
My issue was your original statement
>What this is person is doing by writing that is called xenophobia implying she shouldn't be a politician in Catalonia
What the fuck are you basing that on? This is the issue with this whole debate, people won't allow a middle ground, it is not a black and white issue, far from simple and yet you have to choose either one side or you are automatically the other.
Get the fuck over yourself, shes sexy, thats the end.
Logan Mitchell
Well, you remember that when you are out of Europe 490 billion down this week and Scotland fuck off and take North Sea oil and Whisky revenue with them and you are left fucking starving with zero fucking public services.
Wyatt Lee
Catalans just want independence because they dont want do share their taxes with the rest of Spain.Thats the only real Reason.
Imagine every time some region in any country starts to have economic succes they want independence so they dont want to share with the rest of the country. IT COULD HAPPEN IN EVERY COUNTRY BECAUSE ALL COUNTRIES HAVE REGIOS THAT ARE BETTER OFF THAN OTHERS. And it actually does, as soon as they start getting the cash, the star to wanting more and more autonomy.
Its just pure selfishness , opossed to the European Values of triying to redistribuit wealth all parts can develop in Unison.
So stop trying to make this about democracy and blablablah, catalans just want to keep their cash in Catalunya, dont want to help other regions that are less well off develop. pic no related
Lincoln Hall
New Catalan elections with information, that's democracy.
Having the Catalan newspapers, TV and radio manipulating all the Catalans for a long time and when they are ready declare an illegal referendum is not democracy, it's oclocracy.
Nicholas Morgan
Independentist Catalans (47% of all the Catalans) say democracy, but what they are saying is OCLOCRACY.
Brody Lee
Yeah, by Catalans i meant independinst catalans, not all catalans of course. Sorry bro ;)
Bentley Scott
Catalán is being controlled by Muslim fuckers. All those políticans arebeing paid by Islamic money. People don’t realize is the moors puto nogood again
Ryder Torres
I have seen both Spanish TV and Catalalonian TV, I have both Unionist Spanish friends and Separatist Catalonian friends. And I have to say that, in my opinion, separatists catalonians have been manipulated for years, they cant critical about themselves anymore. It's very sad to see radical nationalism at Europe nowadays.
Aaron Diaz
Your loss, nigger.
Oliver Ortiz
You're looking for the word ochlocracy, and it's literally not. Ochlocracy is a complete lack of regular order. Direct democracy ≠ ochlocracy unless you're part of the ruling class about to lose its job.
Austin Butler
>Blaming EU for not getting involved in internal Spanish affairs >What is sovereignity?
Connor Jackson
I have no interest in dividing nations. I've an interest in speaking up against flagrant power abuse in supposedly 'democratic' countries.
If you don't fear public opinion, why fear a properly run referendum?
Christopher Martin
Do you also type in English?
Grayson Lewis
Because they earn the money and you lazy-ass fucks live off it.
Aaron Powell
kek because they actually do fear public opinion is going to break up their carefully built corporate domination scheme.
Carter Cooper
Felipe needs to send in the tanks already.
Charles White
I lived there and studied primary school there long time ago, and I don't miss it, the manipulation on the schools and some teachers was sad and retarded.(stuff like trying to teach Spanish in Català like it was a foreign language) Deserving independence or not, if they do it now, they are fucked. But there's so much info twisted by their regional media is not even funny. And the warped idea that they'll remain on the EU after independence is probably the biggest lie, exiting the EU means losing a lot of welfare(primary sector is fucked) trading gets fucked because customs duty And 800 business leaving, 2 of them being big banks is just the tip of the iceberg
Gabriel Brooks
Haha... I'm also not American, you absolute twat. It's a dangerous stance to take when you don't want an objective opinion, what are you worried about if you are in the right?
Wyatt Lee
Also, I think it's rich that a Spaniard could call any country out on racism.
David Jenkins
So hold a proper fucking one like you have denied the people for years. Or are you scared of the result?
Chase Peterson
Well,fuck you and those stupid gachupines.
Henry Torres
You're logically flawed. You are equating any legitimate, democratic more towards self governance to be fascist and 'ultranationalist' because you disagree with this case.
I think sending military police in to seize ballot boxes and subdue voters kind of leans more to the fascist blueprint than asking for a vote.
Landon Torres
The joke was funny, you had to let your poisoned agenda turn it into something it clearly wasn't.
Might be a job for you in the Spanish police.
Chase Gutierrez
Itafag here again.
Because that's not how things should fare in a country. Even the nothern part of Italy is richer. Hell, if only they could split there would be another Sweden, from an economical point of wiew, stuck in southern europe. But Italy is one, and the same rich north who would like to avoid sharing their taxes with the south is responsible for the situation the south is in. Most of the people who invest in, lets make an example, italian tomatoes (which are the best in the world) come from the nothern part of Italy, but tomatoes fields and tomato workers are from the south. Do you think it would be fair to leave the nothern bitch carelessy abusing the southern territory and pay taxes on his work who would benefit only his nothern Italy? Wanna try planting tomato in that polluted nothern soup? Try to plant tomaoes across Milan fields and see how they would taste.
That's maybe a shitty example but it explains how things are balanced when a nation is one. Capitalism is not fit for Italy because we're a bunch of lazy fucks (and I'm from Rome and I live like a prince leeching on everything I can, proudly) but the unity of the Nation will never be questioned until I breathe my final.
Yw, spaniard friend. Are you having siesta as well? I ate too much today. No fatso here, but now I could kill to be in my bed sleeping.
Nathaniel Allen
Tbh, yeah, that's probably a large part of it, and why not? Why should a prosperous, resource rich environment subsidise a government's inefficiency to balance country wide investment? If they were being treated fairly by the government, why wouldn't they feel Spanish?
You have to set out your stall here, do you believe people should earn what they work for or are you of a more communist mindset that will reward everyone equally, even those who swing the lead.
Evan Cooper
And what have your newspapers and television been telling you?
Elijah Rivera
How do you know it's 47% if you won't let them vote?
Carter Campbell
I support the catalonian independence but your point of view is exagerated as fuck
Isaiah Jones
I doubt it.
Andrew Rivera
The very phrase separatist is loaded, as is 'radical nationalism'. Ultimately, if you have nothing to fear, why not allow them an independently monitored vote?
Tyler Ramirez
>being this bourgeois
Jace Miller
Yeah, the EU doesn't really have non-democratic members. I think that should be highest in its list of concerns.
Alexander Thompson
This is what happens when you don't have guns. You can vote for independence and freedom all you want, but if you can't back it up with bullets or with the threat of a real revolutions, your votes don't mean shit.
Austin Stewart
there is a large anti independence movement in the Catalan region. Independence parties have never held a majority in the local parliament. this is a coup run by extreme left wing parties, to manipulate a vote - and illegal vote - which a minority of people turned out for.
it is not democratic.
also, it isn't democratic for a part of a country to declare itself independent (especially with no electoral mandate) - that is like me saying I am democratically now independent and so is my back yard - I am my own country.
Jose Anderson
Das pena colega
Justin Hill
>EU doesn't really have non-democratic members For some corporate definition of "democratic" perhaps.
nice b8
Neoliberals are not left wing.
Charles Jones
It's their strategy, same as the Omniun video with the actress in tears, telling bullshit with a straight face
Blake Butler
I guess that with "allow them" you mean "allow us" since Im from Catalonia. All this separatist stuff is dangerous for Europe so yeah, Im afraid. Furthermore I think that this have to be voted in Spain, not only in Catalonia territory.
Jonathan Lewis
I guess that with "allow them" you mean "allow us" since Im from Catalonia. All this separatist stuff is dangerous for Europe so yeah, Im afraid. Furthermore I think that this have to be voted in Spain, not only in Catalonia territory.
Austin Hill
>All this separatist stuff is dangerous for Europe no, just Europe Inc.
Robert Miller
>It's their strategy, same as the Omniun video with the actress in tears, telling bullshit with a straight face literally 4chins
Jonathan Wright
No, the right for a people to be independent only implies to people that want to be independent. You think Ireland ask England's permission before kicking the brits out? Or Morocco asked France? That's not how real life works.
Dominic Adams
Are you comparing this situation with colonialism and weird union of countries?