What went right?

What went right?

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youtube.com/watch?v=f-OFzz00AP8
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youtube.com/watch?v=BQwk_vIkyfo
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reddit.com/r/OCPoetry/comments/6x2jil/the_static_speaks_my_name/
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The Trippie Redd feature was the best part.

Literally nothing

Not much
They exported the tracks without leaving the click track on, I guess, so good on them for that

A lot of things. It's far more genuine from a subject matter perspective than melodramatic crap like Joy Division or Leonard Cohen's Songs Of Love And Hate which try to be too eloquent, thus not understanding that such eloquence/sophistication isn't a realistic portrayal of depression at all. There's variety in terms of content since not every track is straightforward hip hop. All the tracks are short as hell so as to not waste the listener's time with too much repetition while also sort of a signifying depression.

Stop dickriding Fantano.

>It's far more genuine from a subject matter perspective than melodramatic crap like Joy Division or Leonard Cohen's Songs Of Love And Hate

I honestly think the better question is, what went wrong? X was a sadboy from the beginning but I feel like this displayed the best of him.

Bait

>thinks flashy melodrama and intellectually sophisticated lyrics are a good display of depression aurally
Wtf? Also, you do know that the subject matter discussed on 17 is almost all confirmed to be real considering how public said events got.

Nah, I am sick of people being so cynical about depression in music. It's not supposed to be this flashy eloquent intelligent thing. The embarrassment, the "cringe" as you would call it, is all part of it. How many people said that Linkin Park's lyrics were cringe, and made fun of them for being insincere? Fuck all that noise. Unsurprisingly, all this comes from people who have no clue about how bad shit often goes in life as they bitch/moan/make fun of stuff from their sheltered perspectives.

>far more genuine from a subject matter perspective than melodramatic crap like Joy Division or Leonard Cohen's Songs Of Love And Hate
(You)

>Nobody wants to die because nobody wants life to end

What did he mean by this?

>What went right?
His music went right into the fucking trash

>thinks flashy melodrama and intellectually sophisticated lyrics are a good display of depression aurally

Can't it be both genuine and intelligent? When Ian Curtis wrote "She's Lost Control" after working with a woman struggling with epilepsy who died as a result of it, and him having to deal with that knowing he could experience the same fate

That wasn't genuine? It didn't come from a real place? "Love Will Tear Us Apart" being the subject of his failing marriage wasn't genuine? The song writing doesn't have to be the lyrical equivalent of an angsty teen's tumblr post to be relatable or genuine.

I'm sure Chester meant what he sang, then he necked himself. Ian Curtis meant what he sang, then he necked himself. XXXTentacion means what he writes, but it doesn't make it exempt from criticism.

This 100%
that hook is really catchy and the rest is just pseudo emo bullshit

Sure, but at the same time look at those JD songs. They are these catchy as fuck, super upbeat tracks. The general presentation of the music is pristine and sophisticated rather than raw. It's all melodrama; there's not a damn thing about any of that which implies the darker subject matter. 17 has a far more raw presentation, it has these quick songs with how they progress almost making it seem like X doesn't wanna be there as he feels uncomfortable and is just saying out what he needs to then be done with it. Lyrically the album's that way as well where it's kinda messy and embarrassing rather than well put, clever, intellectual, etc. because that's how depression actually is.

I am not saying X and 17 isn't exempt from criticism. But that the way people are judging it (songs are bad cuz they are too short, lyrics are bad because they sound cringey, production is bad because it's not pristine mixed, etc.) are missing the point completely, and that the music's flaws actually work perfectly in depicting what X wants to depict.

F u c k i n g D e e p

>X fans talk about relatable lyrics
>relating to a depressed suburbanite child's lyrics

How does someone have this opinion? That song was hard to get through, while at least the rest of the album sounded pleasant enough.

>17 has a far more raw presentation, it has these quick songs with how they progress almost making it seem like X doesn't wanna be there as he feels uncomfortable and is just saying out what he needs to then be done with it.
You are vastly overestimating X's songwriting ability. The songs are short because they have little substance, not because he meticulously planned them to be.

>Lyrically the album's that way as well where it's kinda messy and embarrassing rather than well put, clever, intellectual, etc. because that's how depression actually is.
Depression isn't any specific characteristic. People suffer through it in many different ways. Just because an artist doesn't want to be self-indulgent and actually make music that people would want to listen to, that doesn't mean they're somehow misrepresenting their own depression. It seems like you're implying that half-baked writing is the artistic epitome of "raw" depression.

>You are vastly overestimating X's songwriting ability. The songs are short because they have little substance, not because he meticulously planned them to be.
How do you determine that though? Every track has a set amount of ideas, then said tracks end. It's not different from punk rock.
>M-muh half baked
But there's nothing half-baked about it though. And you have yet to bring anything up that is half baked. Not to mention that while depression doesn't have one set kind of characteristics, it certainly isn't grandiose, melodramatic, and pretty. THAT is self-indulgent songwriting because of how pretentious that crap is, not actually putting your own uncomfortable aspects out for the public to see. Of course, music like this won't sound immediately as pretty or pleasant as the typical good artist, but that's the case for a lot of good music that's built with a negative connotation (another example being Threnody To The Victims Of Hiroshima by Penderecki.) Music has the unique ability to go beyond what film or books are and really be able to make the listener hear/feel in ways those two can't. X is taking advantage of that in every way. If he was truly lazy, the album wouldn't have the variety in flows/delivery and the instrumental styles that it does have.

This is a quality post

Not other dude, but craftsmanship matters more than sincerity. You want sincere depression? Talk to someone at a nursing home.

>PAIN

No, art matters more than craftsmanship. If craftsmanship was all that mattered, why are you listening to anything that isn't integral serialism as no other form of music can match it on that end? Keeping just the technical aspects of art stops making it art, but just another technical exercise.

Holy shit, what the fuck do you think I mean by craftsmanship? I don't mean hard to make. I mean well made.

But this is well made. Like, how many fucking times do I have to mention in this topic that the album is well made, but what people think of as flaws of the album are actually part of what makes it work? FFS at least read up on the topic before posting.

Its not though. I'm bi-polar. My depressive states don't feel like sloppy guitar lines and shitty lyrics.

L I T E R A L LY

>there's not a damn thing about any of that which implies the darker subject matter

But taking such brooding emotional topics that otherwise carry social stigma into something people could dance to and find enjoyment in, that's a level of art in itself. I don't find that pretentious.

XXX may pour his heart out for all I know, but it's still a rudimentary and juvenile display of "depression". Maybe its flaws make it feel more human, but it's not exactly nuanced or thought provoking. Maybe in a way that makes it more relatable. I don't dislike his music btw, because it's not perfect is part of why I like it.

big rare is better

So...you're telling me that when you have your down times, you haven't ever fucked up something you're doing? That you have never said anything that in retrospect sounded embarrassing, dumb, or edgy later on? Or that you didn't really feel comfortable putting yourself out there in front of other people? Or that it feels like you generally start to feel like you stopped taking care of yourself so you feel like you're degrading (especially for you since you're bipolar so your meds make you gain weight)? Or felt insecure, worthless, or suicidal? These are all represented on the album one way or another.
>But taking such brooding emotional topics that otherwise carry social stigma into something people could dance to and find enjoyment in, that's a level of art in itself. I don't find that pretentious.
That's as insincere, fake, and non-artistic as it gets. At that point it's just entertainment.
>a rudimentary and juvenile display of "depression"
>not thought provoking
What the fuck? Have you ever had the damn thing? You think a person is in the state of being anything but this? THIS is depression. Not fucking Joy Division making catchy pop music. Not Leonard Cohen writing deep lyrics. Not The Cure making grandiose super melodic dirges. All that stuff sounds sane, put together, alright. 17 sounds like it's barely hanging on, it's weak, ready to fall apart whenever. It should end up provoking more than those other displays of depression because it's the closest damn depiction of it. But, in an ironic twist, it gets the same response many people give to depression in that they don't take it seriously.

>Every track has a set amount of ideas
Like what exactly? The songs are literally too fucking short to have a "set amount of ideas." The track never develop into anything meaningful or fully-realized. They just present the one idea it has and fucks off.

>It's not different from punk rock
A lot of that kind of punk rock is extremely abrasive and energetic. That intensiveness isn't going to last for more than a few minutes. So no, it's absolutely nothing like punk.

>But there's nothing half-baked about it though
You're the one who called it "messy and embarrassing."

>it certainly isn't grandiose, melodramatic, and pretty
Neither are the Joy Division songs that you keep insisting are pretentious and tryhard.

>Like what exactly? The songs are literally too fucking short to have a "set amount of ideas." The track never develop into anything meaningful or fully-realized. They just present the one idea it has and fucks off.
Not true. There's usually a short AB structure for each track. Slight development, but just enough that would happen within such a short time frame.
>A lot of that kind of punk rock is extremely abrasive and energetic. That intensiveness isn't going to last for more than a few minutes. So no, it's absolutely nothing like punk.
Except it kinda is on the level of number of ideas vs track lengths. Pay fucking attention to our context instead of just being ready to argue for the sake or arguing.
>You're the one who called it "messy and embarrassing."
Yes, but that's part of the music though. It's intentionally made that way. He didn't half ass his atmosphere and feel at all.
>Neither are the Joy Division songs that you keep insisting are pretentious and tryhard.
They totally are though. Love Will Tear Us Apart has a separate guitar, bass, and keyboard line for the listener to follow, along with vocals when they come in as well. It's very cleanly produced. Everything's melodic as fuck and catchy. Drums pretty upbeat. Yet it's supposed to be the saddest thing imaginable because muh lyrics and that's it?

So you think a work has to present literal examples (fucking up because he didn't spend enough time working on it, being cringey because he doesn't work at his writing) for it to be genuine?

Something 'deep' like Cohen is disingenuous, because it isn't sloppy and shallow reactions to being sad?

also
>taking my meds
I probably should.

Not any of these guys hear, but if you want to hear edginess, xxx is for you. You obviously don't like anything else that isn't "sincere" even though all the artist you stated had way more artistic value in anything they made then x. And trying to say that he purposely made them subpar is better is as shitty as you can get. Don't like to use memes, but the "It is supposed to be shitty." saying is really apparent here Jesus christ. You ain't for higher thinking, you just want edginess fucking a

btw, so you know I'm not just someone who'd scoff at anything you'd say. Here's what I think is good depression music (some obscure some meme-worthy)

youtube.com/watch?v=f-OFzz00AP8

youtube.com/watch?v=cinJDxLUsNY

youtube.com/watch?v=BQwk_vIkyfo

>number one pick here
youtube.com/watch?v=uJwWnkF-LRY

Yup, because see you're looking at music as "there's no way sloppy playing or straightforward lyrics will work in music" when, within the right contexts built by other aspects of the music, it works fine.
>(fucking up because he didn't spend enough time working on it, being cringey because he doesn't work at his writing)
See, this is shit you're pulling out of your own ass when determining the music rather than seeing the music for what it is. If you're wondering, X has been playing instruments for years and if he needs is capable of playing them in a non-sloppy context. Same with his production as well. Lyrics, too. But these are all intentional choices from him, but you know what? That shouldn't even matter. Because again, you gotta look at just the work of music itself. It's what I personally care about, and it's also how I often end up enjoying something like say...Burzum because I take away the context of the artist's background shit like what you're bringing in that I don't like about the person behind Burzum.
Thanks for proving every single point I have been trying to make. Edginess automatically as a bad thing, people who have made more conventionally digestible music are automatically better, "shitty" on purpose, you're not high thinker/smart. At least you could bring actual talking point by spending your time to write a post, but nope, you just regurgitated everything without a single actual point to go with it.

Okay then what about "Day of the Lords" or "Canidate" or almost all of Closer? Yeah the production is good, I want something to sound good. The songs themselves are distant, the droneing guitars and slow beats, lyrics talking about "When will it end?" and losing control? They aren't dark? They don't have real feelings? Just leave.

Yeah I'm proving you're point, but I'm also saying you ain't for this shit anyways. Just leave. You obviously don't belong here if you like the rawness and don't care for the artistry of it. I want to hear something someone put effort in to sound good. Someone presenting ideas that, in of themselves, are dark and make me think.

dude, straightforward is not the same thing as cringey. and sloppy playing is p hard to pull off in general, much less in something that lacks another aspect to dig into.

>If you're wondering, X has been playing instruments for years
I'm not, I don't care about outside the album. It is apparent from within the album. I don't care that varg is a stupid dumb nazi (although I don't care for most of his music either). I don't care that XXXtenacion is whatever. I care about the music, and the music is BAD.

Some cool picks here. Not sure why anyone would think On GP is depressing outside the lyrics considering everything else sounds like a more conventional mid-tempo rock track.

My personal favorites are Giles Corey, Public Castration Is A Good Idea, and Frigid Stars.
>They aren't dark? They don't have real feelings?
I never said they don't have real feelings. Honestly that shouldn't have been a part of this convo and I apologize for bringing it up. But no, it's just spooky sounding music otherwise than something really depressive. Look at how tightly everything's done with the layers of shit happening. But the most interesting thing you posted is
>I want something to sound good
Which really at the end of the day tells me that you have a mentality far more similar to a radio pop listener's than an actual music fan's if you can't appreciate that rawer productions and other techniques commonly considered bad by plebs can be used to make good music.
Nah, I'll stay here because I am not a pleb who can't turn their perspective around on music to appreciate it in a variety of different ways. Get your summer shit outta here, school's already started.
Cool, so what makes the lyrics cringey? Why does it not pull of sloppy iyo? What other aspects aren't there when the album's also sparse on purpose when there are lyrics to latch onto? To what extent are you expecting the music to be grandiose and complex? All you have done is say ITS BAD ITS BAD ITS BAD. Stop wasting both our times, I have repeatedly presented a variety of points as to why it all works together, yet you haven;t done any of that. Either do that, or take your meds and go to sleep.

>wanting something to sound good means you're not a "real" music fan

Giles Corey is a perfect example of what you're saying 17 is.

>What aspects aren't there?
In Giles Corey there is a genuine ugliness that accompanies the 'sloppiness'. I don't get that here, it just kind of sound like John Mayer is a little off-beat, because he's listening to a soundcloud rapper.

>what makes the lyrics cringey
At the risk of sounding cringey or pretentious, I write and critique poetry/lyrics a lot. Like a lot, a lot. And you can find his type of 'straightforward/raw' depressed lyrics littering the bottom of the barrel. It's not new, it's not interesting, and it only works sparingly. Here's what his lyrics are like.

reddit.com/r/OCPoetry/comments/6x2jil/the_static_speaks_my_name/

It lacks emotive power, because he's just telling us he's sad. There's nothing but that statement "I'm Sad". That's not enough, it just isn't. An combining that with like a million cliches doesn't help.

>You are LITERALLY entering my mind.

also, that organ on On GP is heart-wrenching

Well, if you have a shallow perspective on what entails "good", then yeah. At that point you are no different from radio pop listener if immediate pleasantry is what you like.
>In Giles Corey there is a genuine ugliness that accompanies the 'sloppiness'. I don't get that here, it just kind of sound like John Mayer is a little off-beat, because he's listening to a soundcloud rapper.
Now what is that genuine ugliness? Why does 17's guitars sound like Mayer when they aren't really all that bluesy?
>the lyrics
Now see, from the perspective of poetry, I don't disagree at all. But in the perspective of music, lyrics like that become something totally different, from someone painting imagery through words to a more direct sense of emotion because the music is depressed in a way poetry itself can't be depressed. On there own, yes, his lyrics wouldn't work at all, or really any other part of his music. But together, they become more than the sum of their parts.
It sounds nice for sure. I don't even like DG and I really like that track among others from that album. But at the same time it's flashy as fuck with Zach's crazy as drumming and how the music flows in a more conventional manner. If I had to pick a track from that album, it would be The Powers That Be because of how well it portrays mental instability with the builds into the main breakdowns on it although this isn't exactly depression.

My bad the part from where I quote you is for you

I do believe this post was deliberately engineered for provoking a negative response from its viewers.

The crazy drumming feels emotive to me as well. Everything on that song feels like that horrible sad-angry.

The Mayer line was more about how inoffensive it sounded. The first track in Giles Corey is downright abrasive because of that piano. And Spectral Bride has that Silver Mt. Zion-esque wailing in the vocals, whereas, again, X doesn't really rub against me, but rather just doesn't sound that good.

>lyrics like that become something totally different
I won't argue that lyrics require a certain level of immediacy that writing doesn't, but I don't feel like what I'm claiming is wrong with 17 is the same as saying that something like Blues Untitled by Gastr Del Sol couldn't be published without its music.

XXX shouldn't try to be a musician, or sing

>Everything on that song feels like that horrible sad-angry.
Sure. I enjoy stuff in that vein as well. But I wouldn't necessarily say the music itself is that depressive. Great to listen to when depressed though as hard hitting visceral music always is.
>inoffensive, abrasive
I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't think this is super important to you though since you posted Fiona earlier, and her stuff has even warmer less inoffensive sound so I am curious what your thought process would be behind that.
>but I don't feel like what I'm claiming is wrong with 17 is the same as saying that something like Blues Untitled by Gastr Del Sol couldn't be published without its music.
Then what are you feeling? Also worth reminding that it's not just the immediacy that I am praising, but also the somewhat incoherence of the package that makes it work as well. A different way to look at it would be how Kraftwerk would have lyrics that are robotic sounding and perform those that way for the song The Robots because they are trying to make the music feel as robotic as possible for it in every way. Taking show, don't tell to a different level.

Valentine is more uncomfortable than everything but the first track on Giles corey. In Regret on the same album you have the grating hoarse yell in the chorus that's anything but warm. Imma just insist you give the first few tracks of Idler Wheel a good listen in decent headphones.

>Taking show, don't tell to a different level.
Yep, Idler Wheel does this. Valentine is as much voice acting as it is singing.

Sure she sounds uncomfortable, but I don't think it's that abrasive though. Especially not enough to compare it to the musics we have compared so far. Not to mention that while I think Fiona's voice is fitting, "grating" abrasion (not very grating it all depends on the listener) doesn't necessarily make for depressive music. I certainly don't like Giles Corey because it's abrasive either, but because to me it's the total opposite, it's kinda fading away even with Dan's occasional shouts on it, the damn thing feels fragile as fuck and all the vocal effects Dan does have on supplements that.

most of the tracks are about love and fucking in the most boring way. producion isn't impressive/good so lyrics could save the game but they don't.
i guess album i short, so that's kind of good?

This album was top cringe, but I actually expected worse. It's somewhat coherent and at least he put some thought into his record unlike his earlier efforts. I think it's better to try and fail like this, rather than keeping releasing fucking snippets on your Soundcloud. 17 is certainly better than his poorly mixed "fuck nigga aye" songs.
I just hope he improves, because at this point he has the same amount of idea on how music works as a schizophrenic outsider musician, but with none of the sincerity.

Why no sincerety? What determines that?

Iunno, xxxmanletcion just tries too hard to look like that sad emo kid "im an outcast haha xd"
He could've had success if he released this album in mid-2000s
Guys like Daniel Johnston or Wesley Willis however make music about what they see and hear around them, they don't pretend or try to be anything else, they are like little children, and that is sincerity