What does /classical/ listen to when they're not listening to classical? Is there any rock or electronic music worthy of comparison? Do you buy into the idea that popular music has degraded in complexity?
Thomas Gutierrez
I'm a trained classical musician. What I can tell you is that bubblegum bass is the ONLY pop genre worthy of comparison with art music.
Verklarte Nacht is literally about cucking and Schoenberg disowned it's text at a later point.
Jose Ward
Always listened to a lot of things: punk, indie, soul, reggae, idm, trance, techno etc. I don't really listen to pop but it seems to me to be more complex than ever, picking and choosing elements from all over. Doesn't necessarily make it good but I don't think it lacks complexity.
Carson Green
Can you clarify what you mean by "picking and choosing elements from all over." That sounds more like evidence of diversity than complexity.
Ayden Long
cringe
Brandon Price
Well yes I suppose diversity is a better word for it. The underlying song might be just something simple, three chords or a beat, but the shifts in tone that the different elements give make the songs sound more complicated than the average popsong from 30 years back.
Seems to be increasing. Lots of youth orchestras and competitions for your performers.
Ryan Allen
Do you listen to jazz at all, poly?
Elijah Roberts
Rarely. I heard a lot growing up - goodman, miles davis, glenn miller, and some boogie-woogie era stuff. My parents would listen to anything from Bach and Telemann to Django Reinhardt, Bob Marley and Bjork. I occasionally listen to Avishai Cohen trio but jazz doesn't really interest me these days - its good chilled background music, but I pretty much exclusively listen to Bach or Renaissance polyphony. No fugues or carefully composed 4+ part polyphony and it just isn't enough to hold my attention.
I will sometimes listen to new works that appear as part of the SOUNZ films, but not many contemporary composers are doing things I like. I did go through periods of listening a lot to Grisey, Murail, Ferneyhough, Schnittke et. al. but they lack the beauty of renaissance music and the interlocking charm of Bach.
Most of the time I write more music than I listen to. I've spent 20+ years absorbing music of all genres, now I just want to do my own thing.
Daniel White
It's dead in America. Places like Europe and Japan seem to be fine, though.
Isaiah Stewart
petzold
Matthew Brooks
Schoenberg ruined music. SDF is about to get BTFO
At the beginning of the 20th century, an evil man named by the name of Arnold Schoenberg claimed that tonal music, as characterized from Bach through Brahms, had simply been exhausted. There was nothing more to say in that language, so he had to LIBERATE MUSIC FROM THE SHACKLES OF TONALITY and introduce atonality, and later serial music. Which pretty much killed music in the 20th century.
It was a lie. It was a lie based on a reductionist concept of music. Schoenberg said that music consists of chord progressions and that there's only so many chords you can make and soon you'll exhaust them. That was his argument. Well, IF music consisted only of chord progressions, there might be some merit to that argument though I doubt it. But if you look at music this way: the scientific investigation into generating new ordering principles in music, then it's exhaustible. What Schoenberg and his associates did to music, is to my mind, a crime.
Elijah Diaz
your entire post is a lie.
Everyone was breaking tonality in Schoenberg's time. He just happened to take all the chaotic "breaking of the rules" and create some rules to work within, allowing composers to use patterns and logic instead of just going crazy.
Pretty sure Schoenberg never any of the things you claim he said. Please provide citations and/or actual quotes from Schoenberg.
Mahler and Strauss are just as much to blame for "breaking" tonal music. Strauss' Elektra and Mahler's stretching tonality - for example his shriek chord in the 10th symphony.
Wagner is the real one to blame for "breaking tonality" he went so chromatic that keys no longer seemed to matter.
Is this the future? I started feeling that if my music is not as complex, it's a complete trash. And I don't think I have a mental capacity to make stuff like this. Going down the comments and seeing people naming all these weird chords, while I can't recognize even one makes me sick.
He is constantly talked about on places like /r/musictheory. People seem to compare him to a modern day Mozart or something.
Aaron Murphy
The video you linked is not even classical-related
Brandon Russell
>modern day Mozart or something hardly. He mostly does covers, maybe some jazzy arrangements. His strength lies in production and vocal layers.
As you can see, the video posted above is a cover, of popular music none the less. He does not belong in /classical/
Oliver Sanders
hey guys sorry if this is wildly innappropriate but im very confused about 'dowwnloading/listening' to classical music, like the 'versions/editions' etc or whatever theyre really called say for erik satie who id like to download and listen to stuff from, how would i do this/what should i search for? thanks
Aiden Fisher
You guys really do hate anything non-classical. I posted it here talking about a composition in general, since I know /comp/ is dead and a lot of you are music students.
Leo Allen
yeah we only care about classical composition. What else did you expect from /classical/? We don't hate him, we just don't care about him.
Jazz chords belong in /jazz/. Call us when mr Collier starts writing his own music and getting it performed by classical performers. He may know about 'negative harmony', but does he know how to write a fugue?
Aiden Garcia
Thanks for reminding me why I stopped going to /classical/ and /comp/ before it died. Goodbye.
Wyatt Phillips
...
Ayden Ramirez
Pretentious pleb spotted.
Elijah Gutierrez
he already left, see
Leo Bailey
>Is there any rock or electronic music worthy of comparison?
Isaac Barnes
>Arnold Schoenberg claimed that tonal music, as characterized from Bach through Brahms, had simply been exhausted He's been quoted saying "There is still plenty of good music to be written in C Major", the exact opposite, you fuck. Everything you said is provably wrong. lol
Andrew Ramirez
>Wagner is the real one to blame for "breaking tonality" he went so chromatic that keys no longer seemed to matter.
Didn't Bach already do that?
Isaiah Fisher
Tonality is more like an artificial system imposed on music at the start of the baroque which people have been struggling to work within or escape from ever since. Except in the classical era when they loved that shit and they believed they were imitating the regularity of greco-roman music, which they actually knew nothing about.
Nathan Rodriguez
Bach never went as far as Wagner. He definitely has some chromatic passages, but usually heads back to standard harmony and keys before too long.
Zachary Diaz
Mostly Zappa, punk and 1940s big band jazz.
Music from different traditions can be compared, but only in technical terms. It generally doesn't tell you anything about the quality of the music, however. Classical music isn't popular music isn't Indian raga isn't . It's largely fruitless cultural ladder climbing, like when people try to make out that video game soundtracks or heavy metal are "the new classical". It's stupid.
And yes, popular music has demonstrably been simplified, although by its nature it was never particularly complex. Compare any popular song from the 1930s with one from the 2010s, it's almopst guaranteed that the former will be an actual composition while the latter will be a four bar drum loop with sound effects and extremely basic chord sequences (note sequences and not progressions, because they don't use functional harmony). Simplification of the music may be correlated with the increase in elaborateness of music videos from the 1980s onwards. Hip hop also shoulders some of the responsibility, its format has become standard for almost all western pop music.
Bach never wrote music to use a sustain pedal, the sustain pedal did not exist in Bach's time, and any pianist that uses pedal in Bach (with the minor exception of the A minor fugue in Book 1 of the WTC which was expressly written for Organ) is doing a great disservice to the music of Bach.
It is the equivalent of trying to talk with one's mouth full. Bach's music demands clarity and articulation, and when lesser pianists rely on the sustain pedal, they are betraying Bach not just the composer, but Bach the Man as well.
Jack Brown
This. Or better yet, don't play Bach on an instrument that he's never even fucking seen in his life.
Sebastian Wilson
this or better yet don't play bach
Nicholas Wood
this just play petzold xdddDdXDd
Brayden Green
even that isn't a satisfactory argument because an instrument such as the harpsichord, though better suited for the Goldberg Variations or Italian Concerto, is not the proper instrument for the Well Tempered Clavier due to the markings of "appoggiatura" throughout. A harpsichord cannot replicate an appoggiatura due to the lack of dynamics on the instrument.
The clavichord (Bach's favorite instrument), the piano, and the Organ are the best instruments for WTC.
Tyler Bailey
>A harpsichord cannot replicate an appoggiatura due to the lack of dynamics on the instrument. lol
Adrian Ramirez
t. guy who doesn't play keyboard
Liam Howard
>keyboard is the only classical instrument
Lincoln Green
excellent post, solid point this user will go places
Adrian Price
>"keyboard" only refers to one instrument uh, no.
Christian Hall
best recording of Borodin 2th string quartet?
James Ward
>he can't comprehend people referring to a category of instrument as a singular
wagner vs schönberg is like ptolemaic vs copernican mindset.
even if wagner technically contributed to the paradigm shift, his music was still ptolemaic (human as center/focus of the musical universe). a pure copernican composer pursues the idea that there can be autonomous music without a special relation to human bio-reality.
Asher Green
Harpsifags BTFO
Jaxson Ortiz
SHUT THE FUCK UP HARPSICHORD ARE GREAT THEY CAN IMITATE DYNAMICS BY SLAMMING DOWN CHORD CLUSTERS
Andrew Bell
>they can create dynamics by altering the music and the intent of the work
An appoggiatura cannot be replicated on a harpsichord, period. It requires the player to contrast two notes at differing volumes, which can't be done on a harpsichord.
Because in baroque times they was only one tempo and andante, allegro, etc referred to the character of the piece
Jeremiah Brooks
lol no
Colton Young
Rec me some pieces/performances with boys choir pls
Hunter Thompson
Ramin's cycle of bach cantatas
David Cooper
Lol Ramin is he a noodle
Jacob Martinez
Why is there so few recordings of Händel's keyboard pieces? m.youtube.com/watch?v=KKGowYpxzj4 For instance, this is the only harpsichord recording of this suite I could find on YouTube.
