Look at every single Socialist society in history and find me one that hasn't suffered or outright been destroyed by Socialist or Socialist equivalent polities. Soviet Union. Belarus. East Germany. Even the Roman Empire in its latter years suffered from the same things.
It starts with welfare programs, then its free grain, then its free baked bread, then its free salt and vinegar, then its free olive oil and pork, then its FREE SCHOOL *cough*bernie*cough*, FREE SHIT LMAO everything looks great. O-Oh.. government issued clothing? Say goodbye to big business? Then comes small business, then all forms of private business. Now there's no free market at all, no competition. We /gommunism/ now. The government has to print more money to be able to spend, prices go up, people starve, military power gets cut to pay for more food, borders grow weak as a result; and eventually it all comes crashing down. Our good old friend inflation rears its ugly head. Last time this happened to the Trade hub of the world (Rome) it ushered in the Dark Ages. Imagine if it happened to the USA.
>You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or of 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country.
- Bernie "cuckold" Sanders
Xavier Anderson
Inflation was one of the major causes.
Christianity, immigration, taxing the provinces, lead poisoning, fucking immigration. They were all factors but inflation was the most consistent issue. Things got so bad that people were happy when Alaric the Goth showed up.
I mean the denarius at one point, I think it was under Julius Caesar, was about 75% silver. By the mid Empire period it contained about 0.01% silver.
Jonathan Miller
It's a political suicide to remove welfare. Once enabled, it ends with the collapse of the state. Which is why many countries get rich, slowly become more socialist, then collapse, revert to capitalism and start again.
Elijah Kelly
As they say, once you give to the people you can't take it back.
Welfare is a mistake.
Nathan Gray
The content of silver is irrelevant. I would even argue that a fiat currency is superior in every way. The cause of inflation was emperors trying to buy favor of the people by funding "welfare programs" among other things but it certainly was not """communism""".
Joshua Hernandez
>The content of silver is irrelevant.
Except the money not being worth anything?
No it was not """communism""", read "Socialist equivalent polities".
Jaxson Howard
Qaddafi made Socialism work for 40 years
Adrian Barnes
40
WHOLE
YEARS?!!?
Grayson Myers
That's not bad for one man
Justin Murphy
Money is worth something because it is the law. Silver or any other metal content is irrelevant. You can have money made out of iron, and sparta did for a while. Money is worth something because 1. The state enforces it as the legal means of exchange. 2. It is used to pay taxes. 3. As a consequence of those 2 people believe that it is worth something. Even the reason the dark ages happened was because the central authority enforcing the currency was gone.
Easton Rogers
Gold and silver was currency because of its rarity. Reduce the content of gold or silver and you reduce the value of the currency. You're missing the point. If Sparta reduced the content of iron in their currency and replaced it with a cheaper metal it would also lose its value to the countries it trades with.
Cameron Russell
How long do you think Trump will make socialism work?
Cooper Perez
>Qaddafi made Socialism work for 40 years False, he allowed for the black market to continue instead of shutting it down. Private enterprise were therefore taxed at either 100% ("""redistributed""" back to the people) or 0% and was re-invested back into goods and services.
Essentially this dictator's genius was to run a free market while at the same time making it illegal, smugglers would bring goods and services to the country and when caught would be let go.
The absolute madman was based in this sense, but it was Capitalism that bankrolled Libya's Socialist revolution until finally real privatization happened roughly in 1998 - 2011.
His biggest achievement was possibly keeping terrorists at bay and slowly but steadily lifting up Africa from it's current predicament, the USA couldn't allow that though.. his consolidation of power was seen as a threat and the rest is history.
Carson Cooper
It didnt matter what material the currency was made of in the ancient world
For example one denarius would have been worth lets say 10 of these Spartan iron dollars. One aureus (gold coin) was worth lets say 10 denarius. It doesn't matter what its made of, as long as its consistent, prices remain consistent. But as soon as you cheapen the currency by changing its material wealth or by producing more of it, prices go up.
Aaron Peterson
>The content of silver is irrelevant.
Go sell more of your gold dipshit
Ryan Taylor
You've just described a working socialist system. I think you're making the mistake of assuming a dichotomy of socialism and any form of capitalism. There have been many times socialism has been blended with market forces
Liam Campbell
No it doesn't. You are assuming that money is worth something because of the metal it is made of. That is not the case. And I am not talking about international trade at the moment. Rarity can be and is controlled by the government issuing the currency. The iron money was not worth its contents in iron, the metal was unusable anyways. The currency was worth something because of the stamp on it, not the material it is made out. That was also one of the reasons of Rome's decline, they passed from a currency that was based on the law, even thought it was made out of precious metal, to one that was based on it's precious metal content very late into the empire. And foreign currency is worth what you can buy with it anyways, not its metal content.
Angel Wright
>It doesn't matter what its made of, as long as its consistent, prices remain consistent. Yes. >But as soon as you cheapen the currency by changing its material wealth No, as long as the nominal value stays the same. >or by producing more of it, prices go up. Yes.
Connor Martin
1. I can't understand how a fucking aussie can care so much about the US elections.
2. Seemingly you have never met anyone ever who lived in socialism, yet you're a fucking self-proclaimed specialist on the topic.
It's hilarious how the pleb from US/Aus/... who never lived under such system always know everything for sure 100%. The soviet "socialism" in it's form was a failure. However the right receipt of how to do it is to connect the two systems together, such as Denmark has it for example. However, it is understandable that murricans and aussies have totally decadent mindsets full of "me-truths" which are coming solely from stupidass propaganda older than themselves. It is triggered by the fact that they cannot be emphatic and their brains are set the way that they dont give a fuck about anybody else's happiness than their own. So youre free to spread hate about the things you dont understand even more, its chill as long as you stay where u are bitch. Meanwhile I am graduating for free while receiving my free health care and enough money from the government every month that I don't have to live like a subhuman trash from a murrican ghetto or a 25yo faggot that is totally dependent on the money of his parents or alternatively have to go kill off some people so he doesnt have to pay for education. Unlike you, I am sufficiently educated in emotional intelligence and I am prepared to become a full featured member of the society and pay my taxes the way that the future generation can use the same benefits as I do now. But sure, enjoy your freedoms retards.
Carson Rogers
>dark age
Mate I'm from perth nothing new or scary for me
Charles Rogers
I'm not going to repeat myself for the 5th time. Read a book on economics and gold value leaf.
>What is a gold standard
Jordan Davis
...
Adam Reyes
>1. I can't understand how a fucking aussie can care so much about the US elections.
He's just wants to join in on the bants.
Jason Powell
>on Sup Forums >doesnt care about the US election
You fookin wot m8
Henry Ward
No, there were times in the Roman Empire when people would literally weigh coins to value them after the emperor tried to debase the currency to save money without understanding the consequences.
Nathaniel Morris
nice try capitalist shill
Aaron Myers
Real socialism has never been tried. Social Democracy is just another form of capitalism.
Jonathan Harris
>he doesn't know that interest based money was/is the cause >he doesn't know about gold being the shittiest money devised by humans >he doesn't know about systemic inflation >he thinks socialism is the cause, when it is a symptom
straya cunt
Charles Williams
Sure brought all the commies out of the woodwork
David Rivera
>then its FREE SCHOOL
Nigger where you already born during the last 10 years?
The whole europe has free education and it is not dead.
imba
>youre dyingnow x_DDD
fuck off.
Mason Lopez
You literally are dying now X_DDD
Alexander Russell
gold and precious metals has always been the defacto reserve currency. Since people discovered metallurgy.
I thought Germans were smart (you must be an 'immigrant')
Jason Walker
>this somehow invalidates my point in any shape or form
Some real good arguments here
Liam Collins
Socialism will only work when humans no longer need to provide the labour.
Connor Martin
Oh and I thought I was getting somewhere with you. Ok lets try something simple.
The coins that are made out of lets say gold are worth more (historically) than their metal content. Therefore if you received some coins made out of pure gold it would still be more profitable for you to use those coins to pay for something using their nominal value rather than melt them down, not counting that it is illegal to do so. You would not care if you were paid with a 50% gold coin rather than a pure one because you don't care about the metal, you care about the nominal value (the stamp on the coin) to pay for your food and taxes. The problems appear when the state becomes corrupt and starts to overproduce money. It can happen with gold and silver just as easily by importing gold and silver from foreign lands. Gold standard is a meme anyways and was usually only enforced by the countries that benefited from it, for example Spain when they raided north america for tons of gold. >Read a book on economics and gold value leaf. Read a history book and learn how money works. Despite popular belief almost no currencies throughout currencies were worth their metal content and for good reason. Good night.
Dominic Anderson
No it hasn't, people just rarely read about monetary and economic history because it's fairly boring.
Logan Thomas
I love how bernie calls his politics democratic socialism, as if he needs to let us know he intends to use democracy like a good guy. Yeh thanks bernie, democracy is kind of implicit in the whole election thing.
Juan Garcia
>Gold is the worst currency ever invented
Personally I'd have preferred having a currency with retained the same value over centuries, to my imaginary paper which is literally losing value by the minute because Jews constantly print more of it and call it "quantitative easing." I don't care if it's gold, silver or shiny pebbles. Fractional reserve banking is an utterly idiotic idea.
Noah Brown
inntil da har vi nordmenn leverer fjert
Isaiah Gray
NOT
Daniel Carter
user. Rare metals are finite. When you produce more currency, you have to reduce the amount of rare metal in your currency to produce more of it. These two things go hand in hand, as I said about 7 posts ago. When you reduce the value of the currency, YOU REDUCE THE VALUE OF THE CURRENCY. You clearly have no understanding of trade at all, so here you go: >You wouldn't care if you were paid with a 50% gold coin But other countries you trade with wouldn't sell you that fish worth a 100% gold coin to you for one 50% gold coin. That fish would now be worth two 50% gold coins. This is basic fucking economics.
Brody Jenkins
Iceland however did manage to claw out of their welfare state quite effectively after they had a financial collapse, and has had a honestly harmless shift into a more capitalist system.
Collapse and transition is not always violent, if you luck out with proper leadership and lack of foreign interest to screw you over.
Still, looking forward to what Greece will do.
Connor Morales
This, the leaf is clearly JUST justin tredau shitposting from parliment
Levi Flores
Christianity? please kill this meme. Christianity had nothing to do with the fall of Rome. Rome fell because no one ever established a clear succession law, plus the biological children/heirs of many Emperors were head-up-ass retarded, allowing opportunistic and corrupt generals and governors to assume control in the power vacuum.
it was a result of the Empire never really being the official political organization of Rome. Augustus pretended Rome was still a Republic and that he was just an adviser to the Senate and that facade remained that way for another century and a half after his death. That is *the* reason why Rome fell. By the 4th and 5th centuries, the Romans were too busy fighting themselves to concentrate their energies on the Goths, Vandals, and Huns. Inflation was a big part too, of course.
Josiah Jones
>Christianity had nothing to do with the fall of Rome.
Stopped reading there t b h
Isaiah Gray
It's true and you know it. The only reason people point to it being a huge factor was because Julian was a fucktard, but that also goes back to the actual content of my post: that the Empire was never officially an Empire. Any official government decree regarding the political organization of the Empire would have solidified it and saved it from political collapse in the 5th century.
Lincoln Stewart
Its not true You are arguing the point with practically every roman historian
"By approving Christianity, the Roman state directly undermined its religious traditions. Finally, by this time, Romans considered their emperor a god. But the Christian belief in one god — who was not the emperor — weakened the authority and credibility of the emperor."
Joshua Jones
Australia is such a shit post. The Soviet Union had nothing to do with the western style of welfare giving.
In the Soviet Union if you did not work study or serve in the military (and you were able bodied), you were considered a social parasite under a law called exactly that, social parasitism. You would then either be institutionalized or imprisoned.
Belarus brought this law back.
Anyway for small populations it's a great idea. For a population the size of the United States along with the varying demographics we have here, it's a horrible idea.
William Hill
That is objectively false. The Romans never considered living Emperors gods. They only deified a few after their deaths (Augustus, Claudius, Trajan, and Hadrian, to name a few notables). The only Emperor (that I am aware of) that considered himself a living god was Caligula and he got stabbed the fuck out of existence
>It starts with welfare programs, then its free grain, then its free baked bread, then its free salt and vinegar, then its free olive oil and pork, then its FREE SCHOOL *cough*bernie*cough*, FREE SHIT LMAO everything looks great. Slippery slope fallacy.
>military power gets cut to pay for more food Or to pay for more important things than fighting wars for Israel and playing the world police.
>borders grow weak as a result You say this as if weak borders aren't beneficial to capitalists.
Weak borders = free trade = a corporate and capitalist's wet dream
Weak borders mean more third-worlders flooding in who are fine with lower wages, will take unwanted jobs, will create a larger pool of workers and consumers, and since they're more stupid and less demanding on average, also more easily controlled voters and consumers.
Thanks neocons.
Jacob Thomas
Why is it always a leaf?
Grayson Reed
>have ressource based currency >jews hoard it > >collapse
don't you know why they keep getting holocausted !?
Jackson Bailey
"some" is not "all". the point is that it was conditional and not a guarantee.
As for the late Empire: they used symbols and imagery related with the gods but never actually claimed divinity themselves (the whole sun crown thing that the later Emperors used so often on coinage).
Wyatt Sanchez
...
William Moore
Man, I can't believe he actually admitted that shit. Normally they try to hide or obfuscate anti-free market shit like this. He just straight up said it when he announced his fucking candidacy.
I do not understand why more people don't understand how dangerous that kind of thinking is.
>You don't need X
Fuck you, it's not about need. It's about people wanting things, and others providing those things and paying for them. That's literally capitalism.
Why the fuck does a choice of deodorant mean that children are hungry? Why are those two things mutually exclusive?
How about the fact that a choice in deodorant is responsible for more jobs and opportunities for hungry people to work? Does that not cross the minds of these people?
Fuck socialists.
Nathan Allen
>Slippery slope fallacy.
and yet look at the whole fag agenda years ago people warned against the encroaching faggot agenda and look where we are now
The slippery slope exists and we're on it
Andrew Mitchell
I admit, I laughed
enough with fucking Rome. I hate socialism, pic related
Gavin Fisher
Bracteate my friend, Bracteate...
there was a 400 year long period in central europe that didn't use jew money, alas "education" makes us forget.
Daniel Lee
give me kissu user
Zachary Barnes
>Why the fuck does a choice of deodorant mean that children are hungry?
they have an ad on the radio here in NC that says 1 of 4 children goes hungry, meaning that there are literally thousands and thousands of starving children here.
I have never seen one. where are these tens of thousands of starving kids? I suppose there has to be a crack whore somewhere who does not feed her kids with her welfare benefits, but what has that got to do with capitalism?
so much of what people claim to be true is total horseshit.
Charles Evans
There's a difference between the slippery slope of going from basic services provided by the government like social security or health care or some amount of wealth redistribution, to full-blown communism... compared to the slippery slope of social progressivism, which is very real (but also exaggerated by some people, saying the acceptance of gay marriage is gonna lead to bestiality or straight relationships being outlawed is just retarded). If anything your country has gone in the opposite direction, and things have only gone more to shit.
