Do you think it was fair what the Vietnamese did to the Americans?

Do you think it was fair what the Vietnamese did to the Americans?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/NUBsM2KaSo0
vietvet.org/jeffviet.htm
davisenterprise.com/forum/opinion-columns/eyewitness-to-the-fall-of-vietnam-it-was-not-a-bloodbath/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

fuck no

they still haven't given back all of our PoW's even though we restored diplomacy with the fuckers.

They're just a bunch of rice loving war criminals.

All is fair in love and in war.

We barely do anything to America. We just tried to unify the country, no ideological bullshit here. Meanwhile America bombed my country and some warmongers still want to.

Yet we're the """""""bad guys""""""" because we raped a few people and killed a few civilians.

Yet most rapes in Vietnam were committed by South Koreans, and most civilian deaths were from Vietcong.

>we just tried to unify the country
That's why you declared war, and funded terrorists groups to fight for you. Your worse than America you stupid rice-nigger

Both sides did horrible things.

Vietnam was just acting in self-defense. All Ho Chi-Minh really wanted was a nice comfy unified country where he didn't have to be around French or Japanese people.

So yeah as I think it was pretty fair, considering what their goal was and what the Americans also did to the Vietnamese.

How the fuck is it self-defense if you declare war on half your fucking country. Was the October revolution self-defense as well?

Yeah and why don't Dixieland exist? Is it because you tried to unify the US in the American civil war?

No, the north would've never declared war, if the autistic fuckers in South Carolina had never fired at one their forts. And we never funded terrorists either

What terrorists did we fund, huh?

No you idiot, they didn't declare war on themselves, they declared war on the French and then the Japanese who at the time were occupying Vietnam. It's not like they were going around mindlessly killing each other for no good reason.

>what is the Vietcong

>what is South Vietnam

South Vietnam was a puppet of the French you moron. I think you may be surprised to learn that the French in South Vietnam had very little Vietnamese support throughout the entire country.

youtu.be/NUBsM2KaSo0

the vietcong were freedom fighters. the majority of vietnamese wanted to be unified under Ho Chi Minh and instead of respecting that decision the US wanted to preserve south vietnams corrupt govt because it was capitalist.

>Vietcong
Is own by North Vietnam, they're the military group that fight for North Vietnam and literally indistinguishable from North Vietnam's army. We have a similar group in France-Vietnam war, called Viet Minh.

If they are a independent group, they would still exist today. But they don't, they are simply a group of Vietnamese fighters.

Shit happens when you invade another country. I view the American involvement as justified given the belief that communism had to be stopped wherever it spread but their use of body count to demonstrate success and their use of agent orange isnt exactly something to be proud of. It was a war from a different time and a product of its time.

>And we never funded terrorists either
Oh, really?

If anyone is curious about the Vietnam war by the way, an American veteran published a really great paper on the subject that covers the war in a digestible way. I highly recommend reading it.

vietvet.org/jeffviet.htm

>American veteran
It's like learning ww2 history only from memoirs of nazis.

top kek
This bait is not even subtle

>communist party in charge
>no ideological bullshit here

I mean you can choose to judge the quality of a paper based on the author's nationality alone if you want, no skin off my nose.

I'll be the first to admit though that he is a little bias towards the cause of the North Vietnamese, although not unwarranted.

What can he say?
"So we traveled on the other side of the globe to burn villages and kill people. Because why not"

Noone gave a shit about communism back then, just like noone gives a shit about communism now, in Vietnam.

Manchu had worked as a wall to block communism from Soviet Union.
It was lost with WW2. Then communism expanded to China, the Korean war happened and the Vietnam War happened.
Japan and America had to treat Manchu more carefully.

vietcong were north vietnamese you tard

>all of these idiots who don't know what Tonkin was

Don't attack America then cry when we slap the shit outta you

That girl is CUTE

Vietnam defended itself

>the north would've never declared war

Do Americans really believe they weren't defeated in Vietnam.

>ok lets sign this truce and stop fighting
>just kidding haha now you lost the war lol

hmm yes very good indeed

>the denial is still this strong
Do you have any idea how childish everyone thinks americans look when they pretend they didn't lose?

Both of them did despicable shit to each other, albeit America shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place.

Doesn't really matter, I think the Vietnamese who left ended up winning anyway.
A lot of Vietnamese who left for Western Countries are now richer than the average person in those Countries, and are far better off than the majority still in Vietnam.
I went to Vietnam and a lot of locals tell me how things could be a lot better and are not happy and are struggling in life.

>and some warmongers still want to
We do?

You got involved in the war too.

My family fled here from the fall of the South and what the commies did to the country post-reunification was complete savagery. Anyone who white-knights the VCP needs mental help.

...

>implying RVN wouldn't do the same to the opposite side had they won
>too bad they were incompetent and crumbles right after US pulled out
>still assblasted enough to feed their children with fearmongering propaganda, just like what the gorvernment did to the citizens during the war
davisenterprise.com/forum/opinion-columns/eyewitness-to-the-fall-of-vietnam-it-was-not-a-bloodbath/

I give you a fun fact: After the fall of Saigon, NVA soldiers were bewildered at the higher living standards and abundance of consumer goods there, unlike the Africa-tier living standards in the North. For years after reunification, the border between the North and South remained closed off. This was so Northerners couldn't see the South's higher living standards and realize all of the propaganda they'd been fed for years, and so Southerners couldn't see the caveman living conditions in the North and realize what lay in store for them.

>And we never funded terrorists either
The WTC was destroyed by the same terrorists you funded

>high living standard
I swear the level of delusion here is off the roof. The Saigon economy was literally built to service the Americans residing there, don't try to sprinkle gold dust on a pile of shit that is the RVN.
Had they been a strong and prosperous nation as they have been boasting, they wouldn't have lost within 2 years after the US pulled the plug.

Yo my father lives in the South during the war and he never tells me this bullshit.

It seems to me like Americans are really delusional.
They really seem to believe that they are the world police and good guys

t. rapefugee

As I'd said, my family came here in the 70s to escape the commie chink puppet regime in Hanoi. It is completely pitiful for you and the VCP propaganda bot in this thread to defend that shithole.

Don't bother with that kraut. They're a pathetic country of self-destructive geldings.

>While China's totalitarianism is more extensive than Vietnam's, in some ways it's actually less repressive. The key difference being that the CCP largely co-opted traditional Chinese methods of governance, which while often oppressive, are nonetheless a modus operandi that is familiar to most Chinese, despite the bold criticism of the system by a few. For comparison, Vietnam had her traditional society shattered by colonialism, so that the VCP, having nothing to sell itself on aside from nationalism, co-opted the exploitative methods of French colonial rule, but also added an element of Stalinist terror. While Vietnamese have more freedom than their Chinese counterparts in several ways, including clothing styles, religion, and ability to choose one's place of work, the militarization of Vietnam's society and use of state coercion are a magnitude greater.

>In terms of poverty and backwardness, north Vietnam is considerably worse than China, where, at least in the coastal cities, one may find paved roads and adequate modern infrastructure. We noted that nearly all farming and manual labor was performed by women. Most able-bodied men are serving in the VPA, and the few who are off-duty find farm work boring and beneath their dignity. The men were wont to lounge around smoking and watching the bare-footed women mucking through the fields, while making the occasional wry remark about them. This situation was no doubt very brutal on women, who lack the physical strength of men, and in most cases were being asked to perform heavy labor on an extremely inadequate diet. Such has been the situation for 30 years now in north Vietnam--the men wage war (along with a fair number of females as well) while the women till the fields and breed more soldiers.

>Like any other communist country, the Vietnamese authorities took us to view their version of Potemkin villages, carefully set up to impress foreign guests with the success of socialism and manned by smiling laborers operating brand-new Soviet tractors. Each neat little cottage had electrification and other modern household implements, as well as bulging bags full of rice and stacks of canned goods. In any communist country, you can take these Potemkin villages as aspirational models. But the gap between them and the living standards enjoyed by the average Vietnamese was far greater than anything I'd seen in China or the Soviet Union.

did I just witness a samefag? The unique IPs counts doesn't change at all

The antiwar movement was patently silly considering the Vietnam draft took fewer men than the Korean War draft and most protesters were college kids who weren't going to be drafted anyway.

There's two American posters, me and the diaspora guy. He posted way the fuck back up in which is why the IP count didn't change.

While the VCP did moderate from the late 80s onward, let's not pretend that the war years or the first decade after reunification was very nice for anyone.

Most totalitarian regimes undergo a Thermidorian Reaction after a while; it is suspected that had Germany won WWII, a period of de-Hitlerization might have happened, probably by the 1960s.

>can't put down a retarded little incursion into South Vietnam in the space of five years, until the masses finally get tired of the war
>"err, well akshually, it was more of a truce than a defeat you see!"

>until the masses finally get tired of the war

FWIW, the KGB were also funding antiwar movements. If you think half of that was grassroots, you're even dumber than you look.

>>until the masses finally get tired of the war
>litterally not understanding that war is about making the masses endure the effort it piles on them, until they give up
When your countrymen tire of the war, then it means that you've been defeeated. Welcome to war bucko.

>can't put down a retarded little incursion into South Vietnam in the space of five years

The Vietcong were completely crushed during the Tet Offensive, after that there was only the regular NVA. While a lot of people criticize Johnson and McNamara's hold-the-line strategy, it was succeeding in bleeding Hanoi white; by the time the PPAs were signed in 1973, North Vietnam was almost on the verge of collapse. The final offensive in 1975 was something of a desperation move, and it could have been easily stopped by US air and naval support, not even necessarily ground troops. Problem was, after Watergate, a wave of left-wing, antiwar Democrats swept the 1974 midterm elections and as soon as the new Congress convened the following January, they voted to terminate all aid to South Vietnam. Gerald Ford didn't want to do it, but they had a veto-proof majority.

>The Vietcong were completely crushed during the Tet Offensive, after that there was only the regular NVA. While a lot of people criticize Johnson and McNamara's hold-the-line strategy, it was succeeding in bleeding Hanoi white; by the time the PPAs were signed in 1973, North Vietnam was almost on the verge of collapse. The final offensive in 1975 was something of a desperation move, and it could have been easily stopped by US air and naval support, not even necessarily ground troops. Problem was, after Watergate, a wave of left-wing, antiwar Democrats swept the 1974 midterm elections and as soon as the new Congress convened the following January, they voted to terminate all aid to South Vietnam. Gerald Ford didn't want to do it, but they had a veto-proof majority.
Pretty interesting read-through. But again, if there were the possibility for every country to disavow their defeats by blaming them wholly on the intricacies of government, then too many countries would be pardoned for too many wars. Hell, even we would get pardoned for the defeat in the Indochinese war.

>Pretty interesting read-through. But again, if there were the possibility for every country to disavow their defeats by blaming them wholly on the intricacies of government, then too many countries would be pardoned for too many wars
The thing is, I'm not claiming the war wasn't lost in the end. We had victory within our grasp and let it slip away.

Ultimately, it was a combination of dodgy policy and treasonous leftists. However, the US military was not in the least bit defeated on the ground by Hanoi.

Tbh learning ww2 history from the nazis would be nice too.

>However, the US military was not in the least bit defeated on the ground by Hanoi.
Of course not, but what remains to be said despite this is that they weren't able to complete their objectives in quick enough fashion that the leftists didn't start rioting.

Basically that's what war is in democracy: balancing out sacrifices in battle with how much the people can stomach of it. If you can't hit it just right, then you have lost according to the rules of things.

Yes, but it wasn't enough, fuck John McCain.

DESU the best book I've read about Vietnam Wars was Phillip Davidson's work.

And all the Soviet atrocities in Afghanistan were...?

>Anyone who white-knights the VCP needs mental help.
The American puppet government your bootlicker parents worked for did far worse.

They were South Vietnamese guerillas.

>And all the Soviet atrocities in Afghanistan
Rambo 3 is not a historical movie.

just imagine actually believin this.

Neat, the Putinbot found a Dutch proxy to samefag with.

proofs?

>commie chink puppet regime in Hanoi
They literally went to war with China you cum-gizzling faggot

>by the time the PPAs were signed in 1973, North Vietnam was almost on the verge of collapse.
They weren't

>ur paid to disagree with me!!!!!!!!?

kys, go suck Kissinger's dick

Vo Nguyen Giap even said so in his memoirs; they would have lasted at most six months had the fighting continued past January 1973.

I think they should have sexually assaulted more Americans. I have the hilarious image of the Viet midgets trying to ass rape John McCain

>caring about that fucker John McShame, the guy who set an aircraft carrier deck on fire and got into the Annapolis Naval Academy only because his dad was an admiral
Shig.

Of course not. Americans were evil imperialists while Vietnamese who fought them were freedom fighters. Not even being edgy when I say that every American killed in Vietnam was a net positive to human kind.

dunno. We came there just to protect south vietnam.
We made hospitals for them, and that's all. we did our best.

* Of course it was fair I meant

>t. Worst Korean war crimes denier

Well, we tried to apologize to them about our crimes since 1992, And we made a committee to find our crimes in war.
Our government doesn't denies it. And I don't deny it though my grandfather was in there.

I'll sympathetic to commie-killers, but the Republic of Vietnam was a shit entity to support.
Abuse of Buddhists in a place like SEA is full retard.

>Do you think it was fair what the Vietnamese did to the Americans?
Killing is never fair no matter the circumstance.
That said American made the wrong choice first.
>VN just BTFO frog and nip to take back the country
>Ho quote the US DoI in hoping US would support the freedom of VN
>frog tried to recolonize VN
>on the verge of losing US jumped in to support and fund frog, think that a 3rd world shithole small country could affect anyone
>VN still BTFO frog the second time at Dien Bien Phu
>Country got separated because some backroom deal between US and Chink
>US declared we would let the people choose their leader
>Install a literally who at the south and expect him to win against a guy who led the people through fire and blood
>Have to rig the 'democratic' election because no way Ngo could win
>Made up Tonkin gulf to justify the present of US troops and assets
>Go through decades of skirmishes without any real result
>Both sides agreed to sign peace treaty
>Just before that sent B52 to bomb the shit out of Hanoi to save face
>The content of the peace treaty is the same as before, no change even after the bombing
>All troop returned, south lost every battle as it went on
>NVA finally reunited the country
>Chink hated that so they sent troops to attack the north border
>US hated that so they chose to support, arm and fund commie Pol Pot just to spite the NVA
>Put on embargo for decades to halt the development of VN
The ones that suffer the most is always the people no matter what the government chooses to do

why people talk so much about this when korea fucked americans even harder?

>why people talk so much about this when korea fucked americans even harder?

Huh? We saved South Korea unlike South Vietnam.

That's not quite what happened, actually it went like this.

>after WWII, French unwisely try to hold onto Indochina despite being bankrupt from WWII (it's a great idea trying to retain clay on the other side of the globe while people in France are standing in bread lines)
>French routed at DBP
>UN settlement in 1955 splits the country in two, since none of the political factions in Vietnam are willing to consent to free elections
>Hanoi embarks on a brutal land reform program (genius seeing as to how North Vietnam was poor and had no large estates anyway) that kills tens of thousands
>the bloodletting is so bad that even Ho Chi Minh apologizes for this mess
>after that, North Vietnam follows the more orderly Soviet style economic planning and moves away from Maoist mass movements
>during this time, Vietcong guerrillas infiltrate the South
>they inflict brutal atrocities which are countered by equal brutality by the Diem regime
>the # of US advisers steadily grows each year
>Kennedy wants to start total war in Vietnam because he thinks China is behind everything
>but then feels a tinge of liberal guilt over Diem's dictatorial practices (which still don't compare with Hanoi for cruelty and repression; cf. the land reform campaign)
>so he has Diem whacked--even Ho Chi Minh thinks this was dumb
>after Kennedy is shot, LBJ takes over, Gulf of Tonkin, blah blah blah
>they don't want to invade North Vietnam because fear of Chinese intervention
>the Soviet Union up to 1964 cared little about Hanoi, but the new Brezhnev-Kosygin leadership decided that they needed to help a fellow socialist cunt
>Soviet aid and weapons sales to North Vietnam start rising

>meanwhile, China also sets up shop there so as to prop Hanoi up and safeguard their border from a US troop presence ala Korea
>clashes continue through 1966-67 until the Tet Offensive in January 1968 when the Vietcong try a colossal frontal attack to flatten South Vietnam
>it fails and the VC are shredded; they never exist again as an effective fighting force
>meanwhile, antiwar protesters, many of them secretly backed by the Soviet Union, start running amuck in the US
>LBJ declines to run for president, Nixon takes over the following January
>he invades Cambodia in 1970 to break North Vietnamese supply lines there
>Nixon gradually pulls US troops out of South Vietnam while massively bombing the North and mining its harbors
>with North Vietnam on the verge of collapse, they come to the negotiating table
>the Paris Peace Accords are signed in January 1973, ending direct US military involvement in Vietnam
>now, the exhausted North Vietnamese spend the next two years rebuilding their army
>the post-Watergate Democrat sweep of Congress in the 1974 midterms results in speedy termination of all US aid to South Vietnam
>which crumbles in the NVA offensive in the spring of 1975
>after reunification, tens of thousands flee South Vietnam and Hanoi applies brutal Stalinism to the whole cunt
>China attacks Vietnam in 1979 for various, complicated reasons
>during this time, Vietnam is a miserable shithole with some of the world's lowest living standards and mostly cut off from the rest of the world
>in the late 80s, the geriatric VCP leadership retires and gives way to younger, more flexible leaders who simply copy China's "reform" communism
>with the end of the Cold War, the US reestablishes diplomatic ties with Hanoi
The end.

The Korean War didn't result in any good music.

>>French routed at DBP
Even with US money and support
>>but then feels a tinge of liberal guilt over Diem's dictatorial practices
Who was the one put Diem into the leader seat and rigged the election? Oh right the US
>>during this time, Vietnam is a miserable shithole with some of the world's lowest living standards and mostly cut off from the rest of the world
Thanks to napalm, agent orange, more bombs than the WW2, attack from Pol Pot and embargo, guess who did this

The thing is, when all the resources are external(chinese and Soviet), there is a difference between the internal war production and the external.
And thats the curse of proxy wars: You don't really affect production unless you attack it.

Famine is a different thing entirely.

That is correct. The mining of Haiphong Harbor was designed to cut off Soviet supplies and choke North Vietnam into surrender. Of course, they still had a land border and supplies from China, but most of their weaponry and munitions were Soviet. The Soviets had to bring supplies to North Vietnam via the sea route from Vladivostok; they couldn't fly them over China since the Chinese wouldn't let them use their airspace.

Not just production of course but North Vietnam also sustained massive losses of manpower from the Tet Offensive; at least one million men were killed or wounded. Ho Chi Minh liked to boast about the fertility of their women--"We can make ten new soldiers for each one we lose" but of course a child takes almost 20 years to reach maturity and you're gonna lose the war before that ever happens.

stop talking shit about me

that aside, he probably meant that the NVA was ready to commit large casualties. It's honestly dumb to assume that armies can be replaced by high fertility alone