Operation barbarossa - why invade russia?

was hitler forced to attack russia to evetually loose the war?

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youtu.be/U5MmvtYvgM8
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Canaris
youtube.com/watch?v=g6tR78d0cmA
henrymakow.com/adolf_hitler_--_agent_of_zioni.html
henrymakow.com/did_stalin_help_fund_hitler.html
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker_(Suvorov)
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his boipucci was gonna get fucked, no matter what he would have done.

easy to say

The soviet union was already preparing to invade, Germany had no choice

Because Hitler was a terrible war strategist. Everything he personally supervised fucked up in just a few years.
Weapon supplies (V2 were extremely cost inefficient, Tank production limited to super heavy tanks), strategies (attacking russia, failing to conquer moscow because he was obsessed by conquering ukraine.) were completely wrong.
He's seriously overrated, he should have listened to the generals.

You sure sound like a military genius, telling us how to win a World war

If you meet a guy and he tells you he has a gun and will kill you and you also have a gun, what will you do if he slowly pulls out his gun and starts loading it?

To fight Bolshevism duh

Germany had a choice. Soviet Union was planning to invade but not until like the very late 40's/early 50's. They were nowhere near ready to invade in the early 40's. The big H could've defeated Britain in that time and solidified the Reich instead of dying in the Russian winter.

He was just painfully stupid and paranoid of an imminent attack from the SU, based on nothing. Not trusting the diplomats, generals or other experts who told him otherwise. So, much like Sup Forums

While I agree that Hitler was a poor strategist, I fail understand why Guderianfags think launching an unsupported panzer drive for Moscow, without doing anything about the one million red army men on your southern flank would be a good idea.

It's not me, many historians agree that hitler fucked up the war. Russia wasn't prepared to it and he wasted his only chance to submit moscow and utterly destroy their industry because "muh ukraine triumph".
The next spring the russians were fully prepared for a moscow invasion as they trenched the city during winter.

ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n3p40_Michaels.html

The USSR was going to attack Germany in the rear while they were busy in the West as part of the alliance that was already in the making with UK, US etc.

Take some time to watch this
youtu.be/U5MmvtYvgM8

Because taking down the industry was a priority to stop the army supply. But well we don't know what would have happened too.

>all morons here thinkig that not attacking Russia would be an option.
Stalin wanted a weak Europe so be could see the red army marching through the edges of Brittany.
Hitler had no choice to either start a war now or wait to be steam rolled when the red army would be prepared.
Due to Stalin's purges, the invasion. Went well, they had the USSR in its backbone at the start of the war, until they regained a stable officer count and command. The wermacht was dangerous in its defeats, after the battle of Moscow it all started going downhill. After the battle of kursk Germany was doomed, the German high command repeatedly failed to detect Soviet counter offenses and attacks. The USSR was a logistical nightmare on top of all. During the battle of Moscow the wermacht didn't have available planes due to lack of fuel and spare parts.
Also, this is partly your fault Italy.

You moron, Moscow was attacked and that attack failed

ofcourse, then ukraine being the major food producing country should not be forgotten, but the battle was lost before it was fought. op barbarossa wasoneof the biggest mistakes.

and remember that history is written by the winner

>stop army supply
Wew
Only way to do that was taking the Caucasus but they decided to spend their time in Stalingrad instead

"Hur dur history is written by the winner"
Well let's distort history to our stormfag liking instead of actually looking at evidence objectively

Even though you're right, his biggest mistake was trusting Italy.

The industry was behind the Urals. Taking Moscow would have given Hitler a glorious propaganda victory, until his army was cut off and destroyed in the winter of 1941.

He choose the strategy that won the battle of france.

But, if he wanted to really win WW2, he should have allied with France to attack USSR.

>all morons here thinkig that not attacking Russia would be an option.

I think so, yeah. If the Germans had consolidated France and gotten Spain onside, then they would have the whole of Western Europe under their banner. Stalin would no longer have even numerical superiority. I don't think he would start shit.

They were at moscow before they were evacuated during the winter.

Never trust Italy in a war, we are slimy as fuck as we sided with the alleged winner in every fucking war.

It was too late to attack moscow Is right, even if the attack succeded they would have been an useless victory.

He got unlucky with the weather tbphwy

i am not talking about distorting history but asking to question what has been tought to allof us. staycalm.
As you see thereare various opinions. theparanoid point of view is verry intresting becouse it can be amplified byvarious ways. of coursethe strategical questions are many but thats technically ot

hilter's mistake was thinking britain could be an ally rather than the most hardcore crazed enemy ever

forced by anglos spy
German admiral and chief of the Abwehr, the German military intelligence service, from 1935 to 1944.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Canaris

First i'll make a pact with that guy so we'll shoot the other weaker guy together first and take his shit.

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Now that's bants.

If you guys could stop shooting passenger jets that'd be great aswell, cunts.

Lots of factories were urgently moved from Moscow and neighbouring regions to Urals in the 41, they literally did it as the defenders held off German assault, so if they would actually take Moscow before the relocation was finished it would be a major blow to the industry.

Are you retarded, or just pretending to be retarded?

>It is thought that during the invasion of the Soviet Union, he received a detailed report of all the enemy positions that was known only to the British.
Perfidious Anglo strikes again, who could have thought.

thanks that was somehow whaat i was looking for!
altough it seems pretty undocumented i didn't expect any less.

and there he is, the aussie shitposter

It's better to try and fail than never to have tried at all

Canaris give @optimistic@ data to Hitler that USSR have one line of defence and war must be quickly.
You can read also how Cherchil was fired and again go to work. In timeline with other events
Anglos and Muricans was 1 profit makers of ww2

>#justnazithings

Lets not forget the personal factor. Stalin actually very much liked Hitler. When he got that phonecall at night that germany attacked the USSR, he didnt believe it, said that Hitler would never have done such a thing and went back to sleep. They even had a map drawn out where they divided the world between USSR and Germany. This would have ultimately escalated in an alternitive cold war, just not US an USSR, but Reich and USSR, and i think Hitler would have won that. But Hitler was a dumb cunt who couldnt wait and wanted his "Lebensraum" in the east and more than anything wanted to purge and enslave the "inferior" slavic race. So yeah, we could have had our Reich lads.

t. operation barbossa

youtube.com/watch?v=g6tR78d0cmA

because Hitler was an agent of finance capital. directly or indirectly, he worked for the very banksters he claimed to detest.

henrymakow.com/adolf_hitler_--_agent_of_zioni.html

Hitlers plan was to invade Russia from the very beginning. He wanted to rid the world of Bolshevism.

because those 1 million were easy to roll over

the wehrmacht was rolling over all opposition at ease, it was on orders of magnitude more effective and competent than the slav mongrels

it wasn't until they got all noodly and started switching which front to concentrate on every other minute that the invasion started to falter

if they had just gone straight to moscow from the get go, soviet command and control wouldve been wrecked and the soviets would've easily been defeated

America and Britain sent hundreds of thousands of trucks, ammunition, and firearms to the Soviet Union via Persia. Hitler defeated the Soviet Union, but lost to the shear industrial might of the Allied Powers.

>loose

ITT: ignorant retard that know shit circlejerk.
Every major operation that failed failed because Hitler's generals ignored his orders (especially Operation Typhoon: Hitler wanted to go around Moscow to get to the oil in the Caucasus but Brauchitsch decided lol no let's attack Moscow head on; 3 months later his troops were still frozen in front of the city).

Goering himself said at Nuremberg that he was still sure that if Hitler had got his way, they would have won the war in 1942 at the latest.

>Stalin actually very much liked Hitler.

indeed.

henrymakow.com/did_stalin_help_fund_hitler.html

not possible, especially after partition of poland. the entire situation post ww1 was about everyone trying to get the best of the coming war with germany and russia, the nazis, annexations, communist rebellions, everything was about controlling the good areas before the war. very similar thing happening as we speak

HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG... except fuck up the entire war overnight

>theory of an amateur historian who defected to UK

Yeah, totally credible.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icebreaker_(Suvorov)

i don't think Suvorov's perspective is entirely without merit. he brings many salient and seldom mentioned facts to the debate. however, after watching a video presentation of his, it seemed pretty obvious to me that the circumstances of his upbringing left him with a very definite axe to grind in the form of an extreme hatred of Stalin. though, who can blame him?

Germany and France would never ally, they hated eachother more than anything.

It is called blitz crieg that is the whole point, to logistically challenge your foes and to cripple their means of production

I remember reading a lot on this.

Basically, the treaty where they divided up Poland was a fragile one. Both Hitler and Stalin knew war was inevitable due to their sheer ideological hatred of each other.

Hitler expected Stalin to attempt invasion as soon as he started his land invasion of Britain. Britain, at least by itself and without American aid, was at most a nuisance and posed little threat besides sparce air raids.

Stalin knew peace would collapse eventually, but he didn't expect an invasion before Britain fell. That's the plus Operation Barbarossa had. It had the element of surprise. Half of the Soviet army was far in the east in preparation for a Japanese Invasion. Once Stalin learned the Japanese had no intention of invading, he moved the bulk of his army west as fast as they could, just in time to defend Stalingrad.

If we are going to blame anyone for the failure of Barbarossa, I'd personally blame the Japanese army. They should have jumped on the Soviets instead of the Americans. While America would've joined the war to support Britain anyways, even without a Pearl Harbor, crushing one enemy at a time would've allowed Germany to support Japan in its fight against America.

>allied with France

Hitler almost had Moscow, but he moved a majority of his troops south to counter the southern assault. If he captured Moscow most Russians would follow Hitler due to not liking Stalin anyways.

Jewish Bolshevism needed to be crushed. The war against Russia was not a war to conquer, it was a war to annihilate.

He had no intention of starting a war with the Western powers.

>Once Stalin learned the Japanese had no intention of invading, he moved the bulk of his army west as fast as they could, just in time to defend Stalingrad.
You mean Moscow.

Japanese had been BTFO by Red Army and Mongols in border conflicts just before the war, so they were very cautions about attacking again.
Not like Germany would have been able to help them when US would just sail to their tiny island and bomb it to the ground if they haven't made the first strike to try and cripple the American fleet.

This.

If you could possibly point one single moment where the war turned around, that would be it imo.

>>was hitler forced to attack
yes
>>to eventually lose the war
not quite. Germany lost the war, the Nazis took over the whole world and sky.

the nazis are racemixing whites out of existence, promoting jewish values and enforcing neoliberal capitalism on the world?

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