#fightforfifteen

#fightforfifteen

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This Tax reform sucks. The rich should pay more taxes.

fpbp

Any decent job is already paying 15

McDonalds Employees are not going to be getting a pay increase any time soon, nor should they.


Lets face it, this is a two faced bill. By 2025 it taxes will up back up for everyone but the rich, yet the dollar will be even more inflated by then.....

I'm starting to feel that people are OK with Corporations slowly replacing the government...

Why does it feel like America is the next Rome. An Empire soon to fall and be replaced...

>Mcdonalds employees should not make $15 per hour.
>we have a safety net in place that proved necessary after the depression
>our taxes go to Mcdonalds employees for making under a living wage
>we pay so Mcdonalds can save money for their owner

Sounds like we are the bitch.

the whole world is rome
its either orwell,
or riot, followed by orwell delayed by 150 years
its over
civilisation is fucked
a state of perpetual nuclaer war would be preferable

truth

>Thinking corporations will actually do that
>Thinking the higher-ups won't just line their pockets

There was something on NPR where someone asked a shitload of CEOs if they would promise to raise wages in their workplaces given the new tax bill and not a single one would simply say yes. I only caught the ass-end of the conversation and of course they don't book-end their segments properly so I'll be damned if I know exactly what it was but yeah.

they already do pay more

Some cities are moving to $15 per hour already. Companies have to and are giving lip service to the tax plan to encourage more cuts in the future.

Two companies have already have committed to $15 once the bill is passed you fucking mung

>He thinks mega corporations give a shit about thier low level employees
>He thinks trickle-down is real

Contextually you know what he meant.

The rich, having more wealth, should pay a higher percentage of that wealth for the benefit of all humanity within their country. Or, at the very least, shouldn't be able to so easily dodge the existing taxes they should pay.

I did a paper in college where I calculated what the tax intake would be if we taxed the upper three fifths of the wealthy a flat, unavoidable 10% on EVERYTHING and it was fucking bonkers how much more money we could be making and putting back into the country. Enough to fund universal healthcare AND free schooling AND a base income. But instead we primarily tax income and have a shitload of loopholes so we're fucked.

You might wanna check the news, m8.

>Two
And the hundreds of others are probably jerking off with c-notes.

Yes, you're thinking of Marketplace with Kai Ryssdal. He asked a bunch of CEOs and none would respond.

But why without using emotions?

15 an hour ain't much.

Ahh yes, I'm sure it'll trickle down to you anytime now.

Obvious bait is obvious

wtf is that dumbass abbreviation for, you herpes munching colossal faggot

It's not an abbreviation for anything, newfag. It's only for oldfags.

friendly poster, be polite

Its going to be like Reaganomics all over again...
The middle class can afford a few extra cheese burgers and really won't notice any difference other than an increase in advertisements.
Meanwhile the CEOs get a new yacht and travel the world (so they don't have to vacation in all the shitted up american destinations now that poors can afford it.)

The debt will be piled up mercilessly, and the class divide will grow.

>Less people die
>If people get money for the basics (housing, food, toiletries), they can spend the money they earn on luxuries
>Even simpler, the more spare money poor people have, the more they stimulate the economy
>Studies show that moral hazard (the idea that if you just give people money they will squander it) is basically a lie made up to keep poor people poor.
>If you give poor people money, they rarely squander it on addictions. Those that do often only do so in the short-term.
>Poor people commit the most crimes. Less poor people = less crime
>Better health care = more people getting simple things treated = less long-term money drains due to better care
>Better education = smarter work force
>Better education = smarter spenders
>Better education = less "-isms" = less violence, crime, division, etc.

You could argue some of those are emotional but w/e.

does america even have an estiblished middle class?
sure there are different wage brackets, but that doesnt really define a class

It depends...
Does this tax break allow you to deduct just a little bit more money, maybe save you 2-4k a year.
Or do you know you are about to make millions of dollars in tax breaks.

Yes, there is a clear definition. It usually follows along racial lines but there are exceptions to every rule.

name 5 people that believe in trickle down theory. and don't give some beta answer like "derr every republican". give me actual names.

that woman who pees on people for money

>More tax money to infrastructure = better roads, public transport, trains, planes, etc
>Better travel stuff = less accidents and quicker travel times
>Less accidents = less stress on insurance agencies
>Less accidents = less death and medical issues
>Money is saved, economy grows, debt shrinks, etc.

>More tax money to renewable energy = less dependence on fossil fuels
>Less dependence on fossil fuels = less need for middle east war
>Less nees for ME war = we get out of a stupid, money-wasting conflict that really only ever impacted the price of gas/oil
>Money is saved, economy grows, debt shrinks, etc.

>More tax money to renewable energy = less shit in our air
>Less shit in our air = less sick people = less stress on medical system
>Less shit in our air = less horrific weather disasters = less drain on insurances
>Money is saved, economy grows, debt shrinks, etc.

>More tax money to specifically trains = bullet trains and hyperloops
>Bullet trains and hyperloops = cheap, safe, incredibly fast land transportation
>Planes now have genuine competition, they have to start charging fair prices or die
>Money is saved, economy grows, debt shrinks, etc.

>More tax money to law enforcement = better training
>More tax money to law enforcement = better equipment
>Better training + better equipment = less people die for no reason
>Better training + better equipment = more fair cops, less "-isms"

The wealthier a person is, the more they benefit from public spending.

I notice there's this problem conservatives and libertarians have where, for some reason, they refuse to admit that nothing happens in a vacuum. Owning a company, for example, puts someone in the position of benefiting way more than the average person.

Their products are shipped over public roads, their communications happen over publicly subsidized telecommunication infrastructure, and their workers have to use all these subsidies and more in order to be able to work.

Money represents shares of resources. The fact that people are even allowed to hoard unlimited amounts of resources is a little fucked up, but that's the way we've chosen to structure our society. You can make a fair argument that those resources should belong to everyone, and that while people should be paid for gathering and using them in a way that benefits society, what we currently have is a bit abstracted from a situation that is sustainable or fair.

If you are over the age of 20 working at a McDonalds, kill yourself. You are a fucking looser and should just stop existing. Honestly you can find a better job than McD's in pretty much every part of the country if you are not fucking retarded.

Plus a quarter of the staff is bound to get replaced by terminals and machines in the next 5 years anyways. The saving from that will go toward paying the IT guy more who has to manage it all. Not the fucking burger flipper. HE is working there primarily to learn that is the kind of work you should never be doing with your life. It should be a motivator on moving up in the world. Not fucking feed your family.

Why do you wish suffering on others?

That's basically your point, boiled down. "The unlucky should suffer".

>be rich pay half my income on taxes
>be poor dont pay taxes get to use public services for free

Sounds fair!

>bound to get replaced by terminals and machines in the next 5 years anyways
hi 1950s, cant wait for those hoverboards

This is a sentiment shared by a lot of americans, which is odd because it doesn't stop them from stuffing their fat faces with McDonald's.

It's obviously not THAT useless of a job.

>he dosent know about the self ordering menus in mcdonalds

Mckill yourself

Must have never gone to a large urban area. Everything you said is naive and optimistic at best.

Culture or spending in america is the problem. You have people driving suvs while defaulting on child support.
Basic living g wage would just make everything cost more. If know everyone has an extra 10 dollars I'll just charge more.

Also who pays for this living wage? I assume either taxing, which hurts the poor and middle class most, or just increasing the debt which is terrible

>income
how is it generated?
does it involve public services?

It is fair if the poor person works and is still unable to survive without tax relief.

They only need tax relief in the first place because some rich person is taking advantage of the fact that it's hard out there to score cheap labor.

Yeah no shit. I wouldn't work for less than 20hr.

But why should a McDonalds employee make as much as a 1-2 year EMT? Doesn't make sense...

In fact all that will do is inflate the dollar even more, leading to those doing tasks that actually require some fucking skill to get paid even more. Then you end up at the same fucking place....


What needs to happen is people need to invest in better skilled jobs. Hell the Trades can't find enough people to fill gap. So hard to keep employee's in the trades as someone is almost always willing to pay them more, as they need the help.

I'm sorry if you are unwilling to help yourself.

Customer Service is a dead end career choice.

soz biggie macs
there will always be feet on the ground in any dining/retail establishment

You didn't read the post leading up to this, did you?

Further, your assumptions are fairly wrong. The first one's an ignorable and non-typical anecdote. Basic living wage won't drive up the cost of anything, only supply and demand will do that. Basic living wage may increase the demand, but a loaf of bread won't spike to $10 overnight. It might go from $2 to $2.50.

The living wage is paid, yes, by taxation on the wealthy. The fact that poor and middle-class people are hurt by taxes the most is a uniquely American lie, as evidenced by most European countries, and is directly countered by my "the upper three-fifths of the wealthy are the only ones who pay taxes" idea.

LOL u muricans

Quibbling with each other for the scraps

Rich getting richer all according to plan

No the Unlucky unwilling to make their lives better have no right to make more than the guy who bused his ass.

I used to live under a fucking bridge. My Parents left me when I was 17. I had no money, and would eat out of the trash cans around town. I never hated myself more.

I did that for 2 years before someone told me about the trades. I went and it saved my life. I'm now a master electrician. Work paid for it all, been doing it for 12years now. We are in such need for more employees it isn't even funny, and it is like that everywhere I go. Simply not enough people taking these jobs, and the education is pretty much provided for on most of them.

I'm sorry if you got to work 11-12hr a day. Boo fucking hoo.

You have yet to be in a mcdonalds with a touch screen terminal hu? I have, and they don't fuck up your order....


Go to Walmart, self checkout is a big thing now. Can't say that 15 years ago.

While I advocate for the trades myself, you realize that this "dog eat dog" mentality to jobs only benefits the rich, right? They can maintain the illusion of choice and exclusivity while mistreating the poor who basically have to do these jobs. Further, how can the poor afford training for trades without the jobs you so thoroughly shit on?

Why must you be their enemy and actively advocate for their misery?

It doesn't take any skill to do it.

It is a job for high schoolers. It is a good first job. Not a Career, unless you manage or own.

who benefits more from the presence of our government and the infrastructure it provides? if China nuked us back to the stone age, who stands to lose more: a welfare mom or some billionaire CEO? Why should I pay equally into a system that is designed to benefit people who earn more money than me?

you say that like its a given. as if all it takes is getting a BS degree and you automatically get a good job. I agree that jobs like that should not be a career, but unfortunately because of our economy they are a career.

Shouldn't high schoolers be focused on their education, so they don't get sucked into these kinds of jobs?

Shouldn't a job that requires hours of standing on your feet, working hot/dangerous equipment, and maintaining customer service be as respected as any other entry-level job?

Why do you feel the need to shit on the poor?

Well for the Trades, they either pay for your schooling. Or you get it taken out of your check.

And even when you start out making 15hr, and working 11-12hr a day. The overtime at the end of the week, you are making more than twice what you would have gotten from mcdonalds.

And funny thing is, they take anybody off the street willing to try and learn to do the work....

Most of the guys we get are straight out of high school. Not a single bit of experience. They either make it or they don't, that choice is up to them. As playing on your phone 90% the time is a easy way to get fired. But working hard, even if you fail over and over, will be noticed. I never give shit to the guy that actually tires. Fuck the guy that does decent work but is on his phone 90% of the time, or just doesn't have a good attitude.

my brother passed the electrician test in the top 10th percentile. he has been waiting two years to get accepted into junior electrical college. every six months he goes in for an interview, but they turn him down because all the "priority" seats have been filled. so if there is such a desperate need for people, why isn't he being hired?

see

sorry, meant see

Most of the employee's in those places are lazy fucks when they are over the age of 30. It is not a Career, there are plenty of other jobs out there. They are the ones settling.

>I work in a trade and am therefore a qualified economist

Our of curiosity, where do you live? I'm in a large city area and have had a hard time finding any work, let alone trades. Every time I go in they tell me ti apply online, whenever I apply online I never get seen.

Obviously this guys whole shtick about "The Trades" is bullshit based on his atypical experiences.

Trades are notoriously hard to get into and have been for decades. It all depends on what area you're in, how cagey the old-timers are, and how many family members they're trying to nepotize in.

just because you keep saying it, doesn't make it true. you keep insisting that there are plenty of jobs out there that pay more and are higher up on the "job tier" meme, but the truth is there are not.

I am really glad that life dealt you a good hand, user. there are many people who don't get the same opportunities. just because you are smart and qualified does not mean you will get a good job.

yeah, aren't almost all the trades in the US unionized? he keeps saying that they will hire anybody and that it is easy to get into, but even the trade websites themselves say otherwise.

high schoolers need the experience of a shit job to understand why they don't want to work at a shit job.

Working a 10-20 hours in a week shouldn't effect your education. IF it does, then maybe they shouldn't take on that responsibility.

Some kids would rather make money themselves, vs having their parents give it to them. I had a job since I was 14, my parents had no money to give me. Mowing yards, with a push mower I bought myself used.

There is a reason why kids today are babys.

And then you wound up living under a bridge before lucking into a pretty good job!

Wow, guy. You sure learned a valuable lesson about the value of hard work. faaaaarrrrrttt

>>The rich, having more wealth, should pay a higher percentage of that wealth for the benefit of all humanity within their country.

... they already do.

>Working a 10-20 hours in a week shouldn't effect your education. IF it does, then maybe they shouldn't take on that responsibility.
That's 20 hours that could be put towards studying, acheiving higher grades, and thus gaining opportunities to go to better post-secondary education, as well as securing funding other than loans for such.

Probably because he is trying to go union. Which is the worst way to get started off if you don't want to pay for everything yourself....

Get a good employer first, they will provide the rest. Trying to do this on your own is a costly mistake people do. The Seats are being filled by people who are employed by places like my company. Some of which probably test lower than your brother.


Even if you do go union, get hired by a company directly. Don't go through the union. I never been in a Union, and don't plan on it any time soon. But Honestly not the way to go.

Places are hiring, and need help. You got to do the work to find these places. Temp agencies and unions are the wrong way to go about it.

What are you going to do when your parents move away and leave you at the age of 17...

I mowed peoples yards, by the time I was 17 I had a good 30 people I would visit every week. You can't live on that.... I lived under a bridge for two years off and on...

>Don't go union
guy never said anything about unions, you've simply assumed it

Nobody needs the experience of a shit job. People take shit jobs out of necessity, not "needing an experience". Most high schoolers with those jobs aren't forced into it because it's a right of passage, they either do it because their family is poor or because they want their own income to spend how they please.

8 - 10 hours of school for five days, with AT LEAST 2 hours a day of homework (on all days, and honestly it's more like 5), plus 8 hours of sleep each day is at minimum 110 hours out of a 168 hour week. Maximum is 120 hours. So with the remaining 48 - 58 hours, you're asking them to take 20 of those which would be extra-curriculum or studying for schools and put them towards minimum wage? That leaves them with 28 - 38 hours per week for everything else a kid should be doing. That's 4 - 5 hours per day left over, distributed evenly.

And mind you I took a very minimalist range.

Yeah if you are in the top 10%, sure.

Some people don't have they luxury.

no but trying to sign up for a trade school without an employer backing you up makes it 100x harder. You pretty much become last on the list.

Oh man, it's almost like sometimes the tragedy that befalls people and leads to them being in non-ideal situations is sometimes not their fault!?

You're a dumb motherfucker, you know that?

Top 10% of what? family income? grade percentile?

This man knows

And there's the crux of the matter: he can't find an employer to back him. And your solution is "don't go union".

Also Remember Mowing is not a year round job....

The money you make during the good times need to last the bad....

That and the year of school I had left. Showing up to class smelling like BO as I had to use school showers after hours to bath....

>trickle down economics
>a thing

It's a terrible shame that you had to provide for yourself in such a fashion. Perhaps if an appropriate social security net and a greater wage were in place, you could have focused more on schooling than you were at the time able to.

I work in corporate taxes. Man you guys are retarded for the most part. This tax reform bill is straight up robery.

You're all focused on the wrong things. Focus on the donations your corporate citizen's make. See what lobbying group they end up in.

You're all arguing over stupid shit. Trace the money. Good / easy example is Betsy devos and her company Amway.

The Difference is that is a lesson, to teach you to better yourself. You gotta work through the tough times. I never made more than a McDonalds employee during that part of my life, hell I made less more of the time. And Getting a real job when you smell or have dirty cloths is pretty much a no go. Not like I had mommy to drop my off....


Life is hard. Doesn't mean quit and work at McDonalds. McDonalds is the test to make you a better person. It is a shit job

I hate the rich as much as the next guy. But I also hate the poor that is unwilling to stop being poor. Because they have a choice. The Path is just much harder. If you are unwilling to tackle it, well we don't need you.

The world is going to get much harder over the next 20 years for people like that. Hell even the garbage man is losing out on work. My City has automated trucks and trash bins. And that is pretty common place these days. As someone that grew up with technology, old people just don't understand it. And Young people that have trouble with it just don't see how much impact it has, as they never knew anything less.

Grade Percentile. But you could almost say both.

If I made 120k+ I probably wouldn't let my kid work at mcdonalds either. Kinda embarrassing...

And you know, the best way to enter into the top grade percentile is to allot a greater share of ones time towards studying than towards other tasks, such as working.

Damn straight, now rev up that asshurt, Shlomo.

Shut the Fuck up annon if you never been union why tell people to avoid it? You dont know shit faggot.

>I "work in corporate tax" but I can't spell robbery
Lol

...

We don't live in fucking lala land.

There still needs to be a gap between unskilled jobs and skilled jobs. The problem is the greedy fucking at the top of the food chain wanting more.

It isn't the people making 120-300K a year, it is the fuckers making millions of dollars every year. That do nothing more than Invest that money into way to enrich themselves even more....

We as a people let it get like this. Capitalism is a fucking joke. There is almost no real way to go about it without somebody getting to large, or a few working together to make themselves market leader. Think of the Comcast, ATT, Verizon, Apple, Microsoft, exon mobile, etc of the world.

You are confusing good moral ideas of bettering yourself with a broken society. Being 30 working at a McDonalds with no real goal in life, pretty much means you are only harming yourself.

That Skills wage gap needs to stay. But The cost of living does need to go down. If Unskilled jobs need to go up in pay, so does the skilled jobs. In equal amount. The guys at the top are the ones that need to take a hit. There is no reason why anyone really needs to make more than 300k a year.

This isn't loli I promise sexxam.com

>reddit spacing
>reeee capitalism!1!
Yawn.

Or being Smart...
Naturally Smart.

Studying doesn't provide any real world experience. You don't get to interact with people, learn people, or have an understanding of how the world really works. Books only go so far. A Summer learning something you can get in a book can do a lot more than you think.

Just working isn't enough to have a living wage. You have to work doing something people value. I can work in a greenhouse growing dandelions. Doesn't mean I deserve anything for the just because I'm working. Same with McDonald's cashiers. Your job can be done by a simple kiosk. So why should you be paid a decent wage? What do you bring to the table?

15+ years of experience.

Cause I never meet anyone that has been in the union before...

I've considered the Union, couldn't find a single one that would pay me more than I get paid now. Union dues are also bullshit.

Unions IMO over the last couple decades have done more then slow down progress than move forward. Sorry you get butt hurt over the subject.

It simply is a shitty way to start if you value money, as most of the time you are paying for everything out of pocket. I've meet plenty of people that have gotten fucked over as the Union is not loyal to anyone.

Hell for one of our jobs the local union rep got butthurt we won the contract. Was going to picket the job site. We are in such need of more workers we let them do the labor, but our guy is still the foreman. I'm sorry but when it comes to the more advanced stuff, most union guys have no idea what they are doing. They have never used or even see devices like CMC Hazmon Devices, or PLC's for Site Automation. I have no problem with the Union, but getting butt hurt because they cant compete with us. That is their fault.

Pecentage taxes are the only fair taxes. Everyone pays 10 percent. Taxing someone more just because they can pay more isn't fair or right.

It does not. But, it does affect outcomes on tests and assignments. Which, I'm sure you understand, is very good for reaching a higher grade percentile.

Oh this old pearl of wisdom. The old you should pay for the weak, sick, lazy, and retarded because it's good for society. Fuck your life, spend it paying for those who wrecked theirs with terrible decision.

If some of these people still had their way, Phones would still have an operator. Online shopping would be illegal. Meter maids would still be a big thing in society. We would still have a Milk Man.

We would have so many mindless jobs, simply so people have something to do. When in reality people should be focused on Skilled Jobs. These are the only jobs of the future.

I'm ready for that future.

What retarded school did you go to that has 2 hours of homework every day? Either that or you're a terrible student.

Also schoolers take the shit jobs because any decent job requires experience on a resume. It's how you get in the door, you do your time as a janitor so Wendy in HR doesn't bin your resume.

shut up whiney faggot

And sadly some of those book smart kids have trouble in the real world. As Life isn't a fucking book.