The original Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back are masterpieces, but everything since then has been shit. Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
>VI: ewoks
>I: jar jar, shit cgi
>II: whiny anakin, shit cgi
>III: whinier anakin, shit cgi
>VII: retread plot, stars mary sue and nigger, han dies a meaningless death
>R1: a story that didn't need to be told
>VIII: pure faggotry
>Solo: will suck; there is only one harrison ford
bump
VI: Ewoks were unnecessary but didn't ruin anything
VII: Not a Mary Sue, Han's death was perfection
R1: Agreed, only had a couple cool shots and one cool scene worth watching
VIII: Had some really cool moments, some really disappointing things, overall really good
>not Mary Sue
>Can fly the Millennium Falcon perfectly
>Can beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber fight
>Is strong with the force for no reason
ok
She literally flies it into the ground trying to take off and crashes through buildings, I'm sure she learned rudimentary piloting skills during her stay in the middle of nowhere
Can beat Kylo because he was shot in the kidney by Chewie's bowcaster and torn up over killing Han as was established
Can use the force, yes, but so can many people according to TLJ, she's not necessarily super strong in it at this point
>Fails to close the right doors and unleashes the rathtars on Han's freighter ship
>Couldn't tell Finn was lying about being in the resistance
>Captured by Kylo Ren in the forest
>Missed almost all her blaster shots
>stop liking what I don't like
>Can beat Kylo because he was shot in the kidney by Chewie's bowcaster and torn up over killing Han as was established
Some how beats the imperial guard that attacks her and has to save Kylo
>the fucking rocks at the end of the TLJ
She can use the force at a basic level which instantly gives her advantage over any non force using opponent.
lifting rocks is nothing
Most movies are overwhelmingly shit, and even 'great' ones have a lot of shit parts.
Your pic gets the quote wrong. Luke actually says "Get clear, Wedge, you can't do any more good back there!"
Yes, I'm a dork. Fuck you.
>She can use the force at a basic level which instantly gives her advantage over any non force using opponent.
dodging the point
>lifting rocks is nothing
In return of the Jedi Yoda lifting up the X Wing was some crazy shit but she can somehow just lift up a ton of rocks ok
>In return of the Jedi
actually ESB
That dodged no point whatsoever, lol
Luke lifted rocks not even trying to
Lifting the x wing was only hard because Luke couldn't wrap his mind around the size of it. Floating some rocks is different than lifting a ship
ok quit dodging the points retard
Different person retard
>That dodged no point whatsoever, lol
>Rey with no lightsaberi training beats imperial guard people
>Ren needs help with them
>Lifting the x wing was only hard because Luke couldn't wrap his mind around the size of it. Floating some rocks is different than lifting a ship
you're just making stuff up now
Look, if you've got the time & youth to get butthurt over SW, more power to you.
I got what I wanted: one last outing with the original cast. Like what got put put or don't; there won't be any more with them, save maybe Luke as a ghost.
Could've been better, yeah; but it's all we're going to get.
She has clear experience and training with melee weapons as shown in the before she even touches the lightsaber.
Watch ESB again, that is literally Yodas reason for why Luke couldn't do it.
You're an idiot
Don't forget the Christmas special and the toons!
> R1: a story that didn't need to be told
None of them needed to be told you shitnugget.
Except that R1 answers the question of WHY THE FUCK THE DEATH STAR HAD SUCH A HUGE DESIGN FLAW IN THE FIRST PLACE
Titty milk
it's all tittie milk
Is anybody else old enough to have seen Star Wars in 1977?
It's so weird to see people hung up on plot points ect.
For me it's always been about lasers and ships and cool puppets.
The story has always been hokey pablum, I didn't even take it seriously at age 7 when Star Wars was hands down the single best thing I'd ever seen.
I saw the cast of the first star wars as basically being space pirates, until they were all in for the revolution in the next movie.
I was born the next year, but I feel you.
Given the Clone Wars shows and Rebels and the heir to the Empire book series and some of the older comics and popular fan theories like the Darth jar jar Theory
I think of there's something to be said about enjoying the Star Wars Universe more than actually enjoying Star Wars
3-6 were great it try to establish just how insidious the jedi were. master jedi were still roaming about brain washing people to be rebels. the rebels had no clue objective other than the end of the empire. they don't care about what happened before the empire, and they have no plans for the future and anything they do is going to be hasty.
1-3 established how the empire was testing parts of the senate and how hostile they were to humans. It added so much nuances to the universe where the original there was a few crazy alien things here or there, but 1-3 prequels just showed how bad the aliens had control over the humans and how badly they could treat them.
Normally I would agree that you can enjoy something just for this special effects, but nothing, and I mean NOTHING takes me out of the movie more than inconsistent rules.
So basically the entire Disney reboot is bullshit for that reason
She crashes into a few buildings and scrapes the falcon on the ground during a few early maneuvers, and despite not being able to keep fully off the ground and showing a lack of understanding of the size and space occupied by the falcon, she flies it through the wreck of the star destroyer moments later.
>Unleashes Rathtars on accident, then the next set of doors she happens to close are the ones between Finn and the creature holding him. Almost a flaw, quickly resolved.
>She trusts him because BB-8 seems too and they survive the FO attacking them together
>Kylo Ren before getting injured is leagues above her. She hasn't been exposed to the force yet. But once she sees it happen she'll pick it up no problem.
>She pulls the trigger with the safety on, then misses her first shot, and her next three shots are one shot kills on stormtroopers.
In her scene with Kylo Ren, she shoots at him 16 times, and he reflects 5 away which would have otherwise hit him.
Overall she only shot on target 8 out of 20 shots, but the increased stress of facing someone wielding a red lightsaber and reflecting your blaster bolts around is enough to affect performance.
Dude adding more to the universe is one thing but a boring-ass execution and stupid plot structure doesn't make for a good movie
This guy gets it.
The comment I already made is just too perfect so I'll just repeat it
Adding more to the universe is one thing but it doesn't fix a shity plot
Only if you're an idiot.
Maybe it's because I work in construction and know how often people actually do look at blueprints when building something, but the idea that the exhaust port was added deliberately and no one noticed it until the station was complete is pretty silly.
>you're just making stuff up now
I'm not that guy, but I'm going to have to back him up. That's exactly why he couldn't lift the x-wing. It's followed by Yoda's famous quote:
>Luke: Master, moving stones around is one thing, this is totally different!
>Yoda: No! No different! Only different in your mind. You must unlearn what you have learned.
>Luke: Alright, I'll give it a try-
>Yoda: No! Try not! Do, or do not. There is no try.
No. That's like the entire basis of why the entire extended universe existed
I don't know who started this fight but I would just throw in my two cents in saying that The Writer's throwing in tiny little mistakes doesn't justify her being OP
I say she's OP because she never really fails at anything. Even if she didn't have super powers she NEVER losses
Best case scenario the writers are making her extraordinary lucky which is just unrealistic for any story.
Worst case scenario they're too afraid to write a female character who has to actually go through some type of strife
Sarah Connor and Ridley both did unrealistically awesome shit but they both came out the other end bloody and bruised
And even squeaky clean Luke lost an arm due to his recklessness
Ray nearly single-handedly wins the war and comes out the other side just as perfect as she always was
yoda was along with obi-wan one of the last jedi masters, all they said and did was to brain wash luke to attack the empire. they'd done it with countless youngins before to establish them into the jedi order.
I don't understand your objection so I'll just clarify what I was saying
I was saying with the movie was shit because it cared more about expanding the universe
It should have cared about making a good movie first
Eat your chicken tendies and calm down for a sec
>ITT: Adults bitch about a "space opera" that was always intended to sell toys to children
The originals were not intended to make a good movie. Nobody sets out making a bad movie they just were not intended to be as big as they were. The scope of it expanded with the popularity. The only redeeming qualities of the prequels was trying to establish why the jedi order was evil and needed to end, but could only do it focusing around vader. Now that disney can do more movies to expand around it they probably shouldn't because the jedi were so fucked up it's not even family friendly for them to build off it. however if there were spin off movies from where it was it did a great job of showing there was much more wrong with the jedi than in the originals and why they started to end. this last film sounds great where they can use some knowledge from the jedi without conforming to them because they were so bad the universe turned against them. jedi were ruthless. just because there was a few good jedi around like qui-gon or obi-wan doesn't mean the whole thing wasn't fucked for how the jedi operated. vader when he was a jedi was constantly sent to fight or die against things and the council wouldn't give him a say in it just that he had to keep killing whatever they sent him against. it was totally fucked.
Lucas changed it in the remastered special specialized extended director's specialer cut version.
Okay so like vader going to the dark side would start with him killing the sand people, except the jedi had already sent him to kill people before that. "aggressive negotiation" his journey to the dark side was him realizing he had enough power to make his own decisions to fight or die like the jedi sent him already. He could go off and do it anyway. Except he's always in the wrong for killing. Everything he does has the potential for being quite evil no matter how you look at it. He tried to negotiate with the council of jedi about what he could do before they just sent him in to fight or die. The jedi just treated him like a killing machine, they regarded him as the most powerful. They wouldn't allow any descending opinions on their council to who they wanted killed or why. When they found a sith they wouldn't even put him on trial to find out what he did or why. Just flat out tried to kill him. How many other times did they do that??
So let me get this straight. . .
>The originals were not made to tell a good story but just to make money and it just got popular.
I mean every movie wants to make money and while I may not know a whole lot about the production of Star Wars as a film George Lucas did have a passion for what he was making
Regardless this has nothing to do with what I was saying in my previous posts. Even if you are sitting out just to make money writing a good story is a lot more effective than writing a shity one that just expands the universe
Than I think your saying that. . .
> the prequels are good because they expanded the universe regardless of how they were executed
Well I'm sorry no
A good story let alone a good movie has just as much to do with how you present it as it does what it's about
You can make a story about a toaster that comes to life and searches for its creator, a story about a boy who finds a giant iron robot as a friend, a blue and orange fish traveling the ocean together, etc.
You can write a good story about anything as long as it's told well
But a shity story about an epic topic just won't sell
Well maybe it will sell but that doesn't necessarily mean that'll be good and I'm not concerned with the financial success of Star Wars as much as I am the actual quality of the individual Tales
tl;dr
Even if the prequels sold well even if they expanded the universe that doesn't mean that the individuals Tales were told as good as they could have been
People who compare Rey to Luke in Empire are fucking delusional. Darth Vader never wanted to kill Luke, he wanted to turn him. He toys with him for awhile to see what Luke is capable of, then when Luke manages to back him off that ledge in the carbon freezing chamber, plays the safe game and starts throwing things at him. Once they're fighting with lightsabers again, Vader is content with toying with Luke some more and backing him into a corner, but when he gets too cocky and Luke lands that blow to Vaders right arm, Vader immediately disarms Luke in his anger and removes his hand in the process.
Kylo Ren does the same with Finn in the forest in TFA. He wants to make Finn suffer because he's a traitor to the First Order and he wants to draw out his death. Once Finn hurts him he gets pissed and strikes him down.
I feel this conversation is a little silly because I actually was fairly young and grew up with the prequels
I actually don't dislike them as much as everyone else does but even still they could have been done better
dissent. not sure why that was flagging spell check fucking stupid computers
>A good story let alone a good movie has just as much to do with how you present it as it does what it's about
No. In a way you're right if it's not entertaining it's crap. The point is the plot, lucas had assumed it was so big no matter what it would keep going. The prequels were spliced to only show a few points of view *mainly* centering around vader. They were quite clever in a way in showing how all the stuff happened while giving a glimpse into why some of the larger parts of it were fucked up. If you put together a movie from the perspective of all the characters you get the prequels but if you were watching them 24/7 instead of seeing the larger picture it shows why they were very flawed in the bigger whole of it. It's too nuanced for kids so stuff like jarjar gets thrown in there to distract.
Okay, I want to clarify before I start that I'm not a Luke fan boy and I actually agree with everything you're saying
My only problem is is that your argument only tells me why Finn is a good character (or at least relative to Rey)
My point was that she never goes through any actual strife. And like you just said kylo doesn't torture Ray in their battle together she gets Bodied.
If you wanted Ray to be a better character that had to struggle and strife then she should have been the one said to be broken down and to be shown how pathetic they really are
Right scene wrong character
>George Lucas did have a passion for what he was making
You mean Marcia Lucas - George's wife at the time.
Marcia was the one with the connection to the magic, as New Hope and ESB make clear. George and Marcia had split by the time of RotJ, and it already shows.
Want to see the kind of film George makes on his own? That's Phantom Menace. George had absolute and total control over every aspect of it - and it was laughably bad. Lots of shiny things and clever names, but the story and the characters were wooden, lifeless.
Anyone who liked the original Star Wars films needs to thank Marcia a lot more than George.
Look you see in the originals the further luke progresses down the jedi path the original masters used, the more he lost of himself and became a machine. just like vader. no matter how hard vader tested him to see if he could be worthy with him luke kept persisting down the path the jedi had sent so many others like vader.
this last director probably nailed a luke that wouldn't fight if he realized that.
I understand what you are saying but let me give some other examples to illustrate my point
A crime scene is really interesting and intriguing and has a lot of mystery to it
But you wouldn't read a police reports or a judges documents and tell me that they were enthralling exciting stories
That's because the language and how the story is presented is boring as shit
What you've admitted by saying the prequels are boring is that they're like court documents
What they're talking about maybe interesting but no one wants to read story with boring wording and no one wants to watch a movie with bad CGI shot composition so on and so forth
And another problem with your argument is that you're essentially saying that the prequels were are only good because of how they affect the original trilogy and the rest of the Star Wars universe
I didn't want to try to think on your behave but I guess that. . .
you're actually only invested in the classic characters and you really only care about them
Your only interest in the prequels is because how they could potentially affect your perception of other better stories
At the end of the day the prequels are only living off of The Originals success if those far better stories didn't exist well . . .
what would you have left?
You can't judge every single movie based on the success of other movies in the same franchise by that logic because the Avengers was a good movie that must mean that all of the Marvel movies before it were just as enthralling
No I'm 100% agreeing with you. Rey never experiences any real or lasting hardship, and when she does (being tortured/mind probed) she immediately internalizes it and drastically improves herself and then succeeds from then on. She beats Kylo at his own mind meld, then mind tricks JB-007 who's guarding her on the second try.
The closest Rey comes to any hardship is tripping up on her first attempt at some things and then immediately improving and never making those mistakes again. In fact her incredible talents make even less sense in the timetable presented by TLJ because both movies take place over the course of less than a week. Rey goes from scavenger on Jakku to beating Kylo 1v1 in the forest, to 2v8 against all those Pretorian Guards. It's waved over in TLJ because Rey is doing the same fighting moves with "her" lightsaber that she was doing with her staff, even though the weapons don't translate skills that well...
Rey's first real "use" of the force was mind tricking the storm trooper, and then 36-48 hours later she's lifting two tonnes of boulders from the exit of the rebel base on Crait... get the fuck out of here.
Okay maybe you're right like I said I don't know much about the production and you're probably correct
My other points still stand
>And another problem with your argument is that you're essentially saying that the prequels were are only good because of how they affect the original trilogy and the rest of the Star Wars universe
THAT'S WHY THEY WERE MADE IN THE FIRST PLACE IT WASN'T JUST FOR TOY SALES EVEN IF IT WAS A FACTOR
>you're actually only invested in the classic characters and you really only care about them
Uh no pal the prequels were to add nuance to the classic characters. obi-wan was a product of his environment. someone like yoda was older and wiser and the further you get into the series you start to see just how fucking crazy he is. someone trying to find a grey jedi path like mace windu thought they were siding with the light but obviously were wrong because balance was being brung to the force. he was a major part of the council that had started to turn vader into a killing machine. the allegory is just like so fucking obvious as vader literally loses himself and becomes more machine, you can piece together he was used but nothing but a killing machine. the jedi knew how powerful vader was but would not trust his judgement to solve conflict before it came to killing. he was a killing tool to them, a machine.
Anyone that defends against her status as a Mary Sue is retarded.
Chronologically between episode VII and VIII we've seen about a month or two of Rey's life and in that time she's:
>Learns to pilot the millennium falcon almost expertly over the course of a 5 minute dog fight despite presumably never flying a ship before sinc she's so fucking dirt poor
>1v1's Kylo Ren, who we learn in Episode VIII is apparently strong enough to take on multiple highly trained guards and subvert the will of his own master in the force
>Gains force powers that take normal jedi years to master... all without training... all without even knowing what she's doing. Even Anakin didn't have those kind of powers and he was a child of the goddamn force
>Finds luke and trains with him for like 3 days, now she has the power to telecommunicate across the galaxy with Kylo
>Call back to before, she takes on a slew of highly trained guards/assassins with what amounts to 3 days of ill supervised training
You could not write a more Mary Sue character if you had literally called her Mary fucking Sue.
Alright dude. So yoda when he teaches luke, what is he teaching him? To confront vader, a absolute killing machine. He's lost nearly all of his humanity and they don't even think his own spawn can survive against him. Except yoda is foreign and not even human. If his intentions were altruistic what did he teach luke about the force except to become more of a killing machine? In the confrontation with vader he only uses the force physically. Such as a killing tool.He loses part of his humanity as most people following the jedi and it gets replaced with technology so he can become more heavy handed as if the tech of a light sabre isn't elegant enough to destroy anything already.
I thought the new star wars were pretty neato but its weird how theres more women in the galaxy than aliens
>R1: a story that didn't nee
Nigga Rogue one was fucking solid.
>Can beat Kylo Ren in a lightsaber fight
Honestly i can give them a pass on this. Kylo just took a gut shot from a bowcaster and was in a light saber battle with the token nigger and was trying to take her alive.
The bowcaster sent storm troopers flying but kylo took that shit like a boss and kept on truckin.
But yeah i call BS on her piloting skills of a ship she has never flown before. Luke at least spent a lot of time flying for fun / work before things went down.
And i can see someone being strong with the force but no way in hell could someone with little to no training beat someone less powerful but with much more training.
>The original Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back
thank god somebody else noticed this!
it's all bull shit after empire