Do you agree that countries which don't uphold the rule of law shouldn't recieve EU funding...

Do you agree that countries which don't uphold the rule of law shouldn't recieve EU funding? I think it's a great way to keep right-wing regimes of Poland and Hungary in check.

politico.eu/article/poland-rule-of-law-europe-germany-berlin-looks-into-freezing-funds-for-eu-rule-breakers/

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=NRIITYILZ-s
youtube.com/watch?v=ly9OKGFT0R4
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Mosdorf
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

So... Merkel practically rules Europe?

If it's only about le refugees then it's honestly pointless, unless you change the rule of free movement then all forcing Poland and Hungary will do is push more of them into Germany.
From what I understand their governments are actually in trouble for not meeting the EU membership guidelines with recent developments, though.

No, Germany is just the biggest net contributor to the EU budget.

Poles and Hungarians are European citizens. They don't deserve to live in autocracies just because some of their compatriots voted these clowns into office.

The EU is a club of democratic countries. Even winning an election doesn't give you unlimited power.

yes, queen merkel will soon invade England for their impertinence. She is very angry will them right now.

>refugees
Here we go again... It's like a red herring. Poland has problems with its constititutional tribunal and Hungary with independence of academia.

You should probably read the entirety of my post, chum.

>Peace is a precious and a desirable thing. Our generation, bloodied in wars, certainly deserves peace. But peace, like almost all things of this world, has its price, a high but a measurable one. We in Poland do not know the concept of peace at any price. There is only one thing in the lives of men, nations and countries that is without price. That thing is honor.

Isn't it funny

youtube.com/watch?v=NRIITYILZ-s

never forgive

>why match the minimum requirements for nato funding, you can't punish those who don't follow the rules
>well of course if you have a law different from the EU you should be punished, regardless of your sovereign citizens wishes

I can't wait for Europe's culling in WWIII

Yeah, I know that you mentioned it. But many Western Europeans project their concerns about migration on Eastern Europe and see authoritarian leaders like Orbán as saviours. They don't see that these countries have real, tangible problems with democracy.

Eastern Europe should never have been admitted into the EU to begin with.

I can't wait until Germany pushes all of the Eastern European states to the Russian sphere of influence.
Fucking retards.

They don't respect their own laws though. Polish government refused to publish rulings of Constitutional Tribunal, even though it was required to do so by law. Venice Commission confirmed it.

Not the whole Eastern Europe. Only two countries have these specific problems. It needs to be addressed but it's certainly not over yet.

EE counquered by:
-Mongol Empire (status - dead)
-Ottoman Empire (status - dead)
-Habsburg Empire (status - dead)
-Prussian Empire (status - dead)
-Russian Empire (status - dead)
-German Empire (status - dead)
-Soviet Empire (status - dead)
...

The question is how the money will be used instead.

>central euros automatically presume this is targeted at them
I didn't know you didn't respect your laws up there. sad.

>Polish government refused to publish rulings of Constitutional Tribunal, even though it was required to do so by law.
no, it wasn't
>Venice Commission confirmed it.
this institution has no authority in Poland

no because Germany makes up the rules as the want
they already ignored the dublin 2 rule when they took in all the migrants so who are they to punish others for breaking rules?

poland triggered casus belli, it is your fault

you pushed for it you dumb bong, they took yer jerbs?

Council of Europe is institution that has authority in the whole Europe (even Russia and Turkey are members). Only one European nation isn't there - Belarus. Do you want to end up like the black hole in the heart of Europe?

-European Empire (status - pending)

>yfw Bulgarian institutions are literally unable to handle all the money were are sending you guys over

Why haven't you followed my advice yet?

There's no "me" or "you" here, "I" didn't push for anything. And yes, I'm aware the British government at the time was in favour of it.
My reasoning has nothing to do with the fortunes of my cunt, it's that I knew something like this would happen sooner or later. It's exactly what the Conservatives were banking on at the time, they thought the political weight of the Eastern states would collapse the federalists

>don't follow the nato rules
There is no nato rule that says to spend 2% of your GDP on your military.
It is only a recommendation and that recommendation says as the target date 2024.
Just because the fat orange man in charge of your country keeps telling lies doesn't make it right.

a can only repeat - there is no Venice Commission in our constitution and our constitution is the highest law here, if someone doesn't like it we will war him, maybe we will lose, but we will war you
see:
>Do you want to end up like the black hole in the heart of Europe?
You mean something like European Iran? Yes, sounds great. :3

youtube.com/watch?v=ly9OKGFT0R4

>our corrupt politicians are unable to handle all the euromonies
>the germans are still rescheduling the funds so we don't lose them
>mfw

its a recommendation like not being obese is a recommendation you fucking germ
richest and most populous country in Europe and you wont even spend 2% on your military yet you constantly say how without the EU we'll be US or Russian puppets
God I hate you fucking idiots.

basicaly this, there is no force more powerful than EE/Balkan chaos, even time and space don't work properly in our part of the continent

There is only one institution in Poland that can decide what's constitional and what's not - Constitional Tribunal. Your government deliberately sabotaged it. Kaczynski and his minions had absolutely no right to do this.

No need to insult, I am actually in favor of spending more on our military.
I just wanted to point out that no such rule exists and therefore we did not break a rule and therefore the comparison the American made does not hold.

*constitutional

Why is Slovakian antifag so obsessed with Polish politics?
By the way, EU ultimatum passes up today, should I be afraid of German tanks in Warsaw by tomorrow?

im so sad, we are a european country but we want to become russia, if this goes through you can be sure orbán wins again in 2018

Our two neighbours are backsliding to authoritarianism. I find it concerning.

Actyally our current government pretected the constitution by not allowing 3 judges illegaly elected by the former coalition.

Also - Kaczyński is supported by the sovereign - the Polish nation. Now, please, take your german propaganda to Krautchan or wherever you want.

>Our two neighbours are backsliding to authoritarianism. I find it concerning.
What do you mean? How are we authoritarian?

>Our two neighbours are backsliding to authoritarianism
You must be baiting, it's impossible that someone is that retarded.

The funniest thing is that our Slovak friend seems to not remember that they have a literary nazi parti in their parliament.

Executive branch has no business interpreting the constitution.

>Also - Kaczyński is supported by the sovereign - the Polish nation.
Pure esoteric demagoguery. All autocrats pretend that they are expression of the will of the people and that only they can decide who belongs in that category. Kaczynski is a regular MP - a public servant.

>parti
party

Try having our neighbors, the best of which is fucking Romania, kek.

We do. In opposition and they are about to be dissolved because their actions violate the constitution. You don't have these problems since PiS absorbed the far right.

>All autocrats pretend that they are expression of the will of the people
PiS won in democratic elections though, what's your problem with Kaczyński?

That doesn't mean they can trash the constitution. They can adopt a new one when they win two thirds majority.

>You don't have these problems since PiS absorbed the far right.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about. PiS is barely a centre-right party in Poland. Right wing voters support Kukiz'15 - a loose coalition of libertarians, nationalists AND supporters of legalisation of weed. Additionally, Slovakia was a part of the nazi block, so your far right is an obvious prolongation of this "tradition". Polish far-right was not only anti-authoritarian (they opposed pre-war authoritarian policies of so-called Sanacja), but they also opposed all other non-democratic ideologies, especially German nazism, first example:
>Jan Mosdorf (30 May 1904, Warsaw - 11 October 1943, Auschwitz), was a Polish right-wing politician, director of the nationalist organization All-Polish Youth (Młodzież Wszechpolska, MW) and member of the far-right political party National Radical Camp (ONR). He also worked as a publicist, using the pseudonym Andrzej Witkowski. Mosdorf died in Auschwitz concentration camp in 1943, killed for helping Jews.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Mosdorf

I understand that you want to promote some anti-Polish ideology forced mostly byGermany, but this simply won't work here, we know our history and politics too well, maybe not all of us, but considering all recent surveys the situation is better each year.

all countries in EU can push through legislation they want, just need to get majority support in the parliament, easier for larger countries because the number of eu parliament representatives correlates to population size

Remember you are responding to someone that unironically thinks Razem is the most sound Polish party.

Even a block of countries with tens of millions of inhabitants cannot do shit if Germany forces its policies - see Nord Stream 1 and 2.

You must be joking. You know this guy? OK, so there is no point in any further discussion with him.

It was a cunty thing to do, but what you gonna do about it. It was going to happen with us in the EU or not. At least they actually had to listen to our concerns about it, however insignificant in g*erman eyes.

Yes, he is a notorious Slow-vakian communist and Antifa supporter who masturbates over the thoughts of Poland being sanctioned "very soon", despite all odds.

I am by no means anti-Polonic. I actually admire Polish culture. If you think that I somehow sympathise with pro-Russian or clerical fascist undercurrents in Slovakia, you're dead wrong.

Dmowski's National Democracy found itself in opposition to conservative Sanacja, but militaristism, nationalism and anti-Semitism were key components of their ideology. They were founding fascist leagues toward the end of 1930s as a result of their radicalisation.

Opposing Nazi Germany was in Polish national interest. Our fascists were pro-German, Czech fascists were anti-German.

Radola Gajda was the founding figure of Czech fascist movement. He was helping Czech resistance during the occupation. That doesn't make him anti-authoritarian.

Dmowski wanted to Polonize minorities. He wanted homogeneous state and his National Democracy attempted to emulate Italian fascism.

Piłsudski was in favour of multi-national Poland. He was much less anti-Semitic than general population.

>Piłsudski was in favour of multi-national Poland.
Yes, Piłsudzki eyed territories of multi(ple)-nations.

Piłsudski's regime was pretty much centrist. He just didn't respect parliamentarian democracy and used his immense prestige acquired during the struggle for independence and populistic appeals against corruption.

I find him more sympathetic than Dmowski who wanted to subdue all minorities and drive out Jews from public life. His regime would've been worse for Poland.

No because Germany being Nazi again just because their leader is a commie isn't a good thing.

Dmowski's nationalism contributed to failure of the concept of Intermarium. It would be hard to persuade other nations to join such a bloc.

Piłsudzki's actions also made Poland hated by pretty much all its neighbours and his plans of Intermarium failed spectacularly, leaving Poland isolated and surrounded by enemies on all sides.

Same thing happened to Czechoslovakia, even though Beneš famously proclaimed that country with these borders could be defended only with skillful diplomacy.

I own a 1000 euros to the bank, I have a problem. If I own a million euros to the bank, it is the bank the one that has a big problem.

Masaryk was in many aspects similar to Piłsudski except he valued liberal democracy.

Maybe this was due to their backgrounds. One was a university professor, the other one aristocrat and military officer.

>I find him more sympathetic than Dmowski who wanted to subdue all minorities and drive out Jews from public life. His regime would've been worse for Poland.
It's impossible to tell what could have been, we can only make wild assumptions.
Dmowski was always a supporter of the idea of anti-German pact/alliance with Russia, which was obviously impossible with Piłsudzki in charge. If that happened, we potentially could have avoided the catastrophe that was WW2 with a quick and decisive war of Polish-Soviet alliance against Nazi Germany, while it was still in shambles. But then again, alliance with the Soviets would be hardly imaginable.

Czechoslovakia had allience with USSR, but they were unable to assist us in Munich crisis since Red Army couldn't cross Polish territory. That was when NKVD carried out its notorious anti-Polish purge.

I don't know why are these idiots saying that I don't know the history. It's impossible to talk with them since they can only use insults.

>Dmowski's National Democracy found itself in opposition to conservative Sanacja, but militaristism, nationalism and anti-Semitism were key components of their ideology. They were founding fascist leagues toward the end of 1930s as a result of their radicalisation.
This is some incoherent mix, but:
>1. Dmowski
he wanted to have Poland ruled by two parties, something like British conservatives vs. liberals, his ideology has nothing to do with any "fascism", ONR was closed to fascism (this is a complicated question, since they had, but on the other hand they didn't like "hitlerism"
>2. "militaristism"
This doesn't make any sense - prewar Poland had 2 agressive empires as its neighbour, if anything we were not militaristic enough, unfortunately, it could prevent millions of victims
>3. nationalism
How is nationalism bad, especially when you literary restore your nation after 123 years of occupation?
>4. anti-Semitism
Do you know what were main "anti-Semitic" point of programs of parties like ND? Are you trying to say that they tried to do anything similar to Nazi Germany? Like, how was numerus clausus at universities bad at that time, when Poles were definitely underrepresented at universities in their own country?

>Dmowski wanted to Polonize minorities.
Yes, Poles polonised millions of people through various political unions (Lithuanian elites) or by supremacy of our republican traditions (Ruthenian nobles), or by religious tolerance (the Warsaw confederation), after all German inhabitants of Prussia literary asked to join PLC - see the Lizard Union or the Prussian Confederation, how is assimilation bad?
>He wanted homogeneous state and his National Democracy attempted to emulate Italian fascism.
Dmowski didn't emulate Italian fascism, he wanted to emulate British parliamentarism, he was also influenced by some Japanese ideas after he came back from Tokio, he wrote it explicite in his works

>ONR was closed to fascism
closer*
>since they had,
since they had two main currents

>This is some incoherent mix
You're right, I'm too tired for this. I'm already mingling words and thoughts.

Thanks for your reply and good night.

>Dmowski who wanted to subdue all minorities
user, all minorities are subdued in any national state, like the Hungarian minority is currently subdued in Slovakia, they cannot just say something like, "OK, guys, we are taking this city and this one and we are joining Hungary", even in those territories where they are the majority. This is how national states work. You are using some leftist clishe when you write about "assimilation" or "subduing". Assimilating minorities is not a bad thing, it's bad when you actively persecute them like Germans or Soviets.
>drive out Jews from public life
Again - Dmowski thought that Jews have unproportional infuence in restored Poland (due to various factors, eg. being favorised by occupational forces after the partitions of the PLC), and that Poles should reduce this influence eg. by organising Polish trade chains (there were Jewish chains after all), while you are implying that Dmowski was someone like Polish Hitler, which is simply not true.

No, fuck off, EU

>independence of academia

Well I'm not gonna deny this, but
there were some legit problems with ceu. Like they registered themselves as a foreign academy... that only has a postbox in it's native country. Also there was something fishy about their tax status because of it.

At the current state of university education, there are limited goverment founded seats in certain areas. STEM fields and medicine have really big ones, while humanities have lower. Otherwise the universities decide how many total seats they anounce each year.
What is semi-bullshit is the "return" factor. If you take "n" goverment founded years to complete your degree, then you'll have to work "n" years in Hungary. Otherwise you'll have to pay the cost of your education back.

>Do you want to end up like the black hole in the heart of Europe?
I am laffin