Edginess aside, why is this considered a good thing...

Edginess aside, why is this considered a good thing? Why allow people to have a child who will cost more to raise than a regular person and wont function as much as one?

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That is literally the only good reason to have an abortion and they outlaw it. Typical.

I agree. We should be able to terminate. How is it fair to make you have a child that will require constant attention and work throughout your entire life? I don’t want to be 70 with a 40 year old autistic kid.

It's considered a good thing because it's technically a form of eugenics.

I'm not saying i agree. Just that's how they think about it.

seriously, wtf. if you just don't feel like having a kid you can dump it, but if you actually think the kids quality of life wont be good, you can't? That's some self righteous bullshit right there.

dumbass law. people are just going to lie and say they don't want a kid just because, that it has nothing to do with the downs

It's not. I'd abort regardless. Fuck Ohio's laws. I'd go elsewhere if need be.

you knew what you were gonna see when you came in this thread, and I agree with him. Do you really want to raise a child with Down syndrome?

Yes, it is a stupid law. But that's not particularly strange. There are lots of stupid, pointless, or counter productive abortion laws.

no i'm agreeing with you. guess i didn't word it so well. I'm saying their law is bullshit. according to them it's okay to abort as long as you don't have a good reason.

word

is there any argument against eugenics?
Besides that the nazis liked it which is not an argument.

>the only consideration when breeding should be financial cost to self and society
>also, LateStageCapitalism is completely wrong

Because the bible. Sadly for ameristupids religion is still a big thing, may take them a while to stop believing in very badly written fairy tale.

It should be mandatory anyway, just like it is in normal countries like the UK. This is why we don't have many downies compared to a few decades ago. It saves everyone a lot of hassle .

Well, once again while i don't agree with it. I think the "playing god" argument is a valid point. That it might not be our place to decide who should live and who should die. That it's not our place to decide who or what is worthy to live.

I don't agree with that. I think we are entitled to make that decision if we damn well please. We have the authority because we seize it.

But i think that it's not a bad point.

Hard to lie because of how long it takes to test for all that crap. Once they realize, they've been established with a doctor and decided to get genetic testing done, so the arguement could be that they were committed and then are trying to circumvent the law.

Dont get me wrong, the planet is overpopulated and any excuse to not bring more people in, especially non-productive ones, is a good one.

Because it's still a human being... Have you lost your humanity?

Because we don't measure people based on a cost/profit basis.

Why isnt it our decision? If someone will be a burden on society their entire lives, creating an overall negative impact, why keep them?

yes we do.

You're missing the point. It's going to be more expensive, stressful, and work to raise a downy child that won't even be able to properly live on its own. They don't experience things the same way we do, making them pretty much nothing but a resource dump.

It makes perfect sense when you understand that the whole system is designed to foster as much suffering as possible.

If they made killing people with down's syndrome legal, then everyone in Ohio would be in trouble.

Well as i said, i do think we're entitled to make that decision. But i can see where people could reasonably disagree.

I'm just playing devils advocate.

Under the same justification that allows people to JUDGE that we shouldn't exercise authority over who should live and die, i can JUDGE that we should exercise authority over who should live and die.

We're basically already playing god. Refusing to play is just another move in the game. You can't escape playing god. The only question is how you play.

oh yeah total bullshit law. Ohio is full of idiots

quite likely intentionally so.

if abortion laws get intermingled with stupid rules, people are less likely to support abortion as a whole.

its like drowning faggots in allegations that allowing their sexual deviance also means we have to allow pedos explore their sexuality more.

...

TRAP laws.

Honestly, if I knew I was going to have a downy baby, I'd want my wife to abort.

It's not eugenics! People with down syndrome can't reproduce.

...

>more expensive
>more work
>resource dump
All of those things verify my point, not contradict it.

>more stressful
>don't experience things the same as "others"
Those things have nothing to do with you. They're the choice of the parent and should involve no mandate from anybody

>won't even be able to properly live on it's own
Provably and obviously incorrect

Christcucks ensuring faster degeneration of western civilization in hopes it will bring the end of the world faster so that Jesus will come back.

...

The more downies there are the more money there is to be made off them with care costs etc

Simple.

If you were going to have a downy baby would you want members of the public, organizations, or governments mandating that you HAD to have an abortion? Or would you and your wife want that choice on your own?

>regular
You ableist fuck, youre misgendering my pronouns

>People with down syndrome can't reproduce.
not true.
downies are less likely to be able to have children
they are also considerably less likely to have healthy children (unrelated to actually passing on the downsies)
but they CAN have children, both male and female downies exist that are proven to be parents of their children.

When something affects our lives, it squarely enters the realm of our dominion and therefore our authority.

The real problem is the form of government in the West, the nature of the kind of democracy that is enjoyed there is such that the politicians (who themselves are only around a few years and so have no long-term vested interest in the actual country or state, but in the businesses and business leaders in their constituency during their term) are not interest in long-term choices and sound reasoning, when they can, instead, pander to the lowest common denominators among their constituency.

It's race to the bottom. The US elections are a popularity context, not a decision as to who is best suited for the country, that is decided before hand, and the people choose among a handful of preselected candidates.

its unfortunate. i have a soft spot in my heart for down synrdome, and really in mental disability or developmental disorder. but that doesn't mean we should be forcing them to live.

if abortion is legal, than we should be allowed to abort based on these things.

>why allow
Because choice. Everyone should be able to choose what happens to their own potential baby. But people who knowingly keep mentally disabled ones, are probably mentally disabled themselves.

>won't even be able to properly live on it's own
provable, how, dude? some of these kids are literal vegetables that need a new heart the moment they're born because of congenital defects.

Not really no. 99% of it is because "thu nazzys did it so it bad". The only thing I can think of is that if you take eugenics too seriously and start culling perfectly good people who aren't top condition (born with cosmetic defect or health issue but still functional) because it would be better for humanity (which it probably would be).

I guess it's a matter of where do you draw the line. Culling downs and retards is one thing. But what about spectrum autists who can be useful in some ways? Should we just cull them or enalave them? Both things frowned upon. Then there are people who are so vested in making a baby only to find out its only fit to be culled and that makes them sad pandas.

If that's was the case I'd be okay with it. Like another user said they'd just be a resource dump and more than likely won't contribute to society

>the politicians (who themselves are only around a few years and so have no long-term vested interest in the actual country or state

This is right here, why the west is fucked. People jerk off over democracy and muh terms but if politicians were lumped with this shit for life they might take a little more care

did you miss the whole fucking point? they don't have a choice, The law mandates that you can not abort a child because of Down's in Utah.

When the bait is too obvious

Lol, we use eugenics on horses to make donkeys... an animal that can't reproduce.

Eugenics just means selective breeding. It's not actually weird. We use eugenics all the time.

The thing hitler did wasn't eugenics, it was ethnic cleansing. Killing the "unselected" people when implementing eugenics is in no way an inherent part of eugenics.

Wait, i think it's horses + donkeys to make a mule, not make donkey. Sorry.

Another reason not to go to ohio, i dont want to go to a place with more of gods natural clowns.

The law won't last. The federal courts already ruled on a similar case in another state.
Passing this law is just showboating for their constituents. Expensive showboating with the litigation costs, but since when have the deficit peacocks really cared about cost?

dont forget that term limits and stuff was introduced in the first place to combat other negative impacts.

i wonder why nobody ever did the following:

>heres 2 billion dollars
>everyone on this list who breeds with another one on this list gets x0000 dollars
>you can get on this list if you get tested here & score >120 points

i mean, that would be one heck of a shitstorm, but right now theres enough billionaires out there, it only takes one crazy enough. i dont think there is anything that could be done against such plan.

>will cost more

why are the unemployed worried about the cost to others?

god damn you didn't have to do me like that

We do actually.

>i wonder why nobody ever did the following:

They did. The Third Reich gave all kinds of incentives and tax entitlements for fit pairings. It's basic animal husbandry, but honestly, most people are such feral animals, they are offended that some people want to be separate from the body of the mass of animals and feel threatened by it and attempt to destroy it every time, because fundamentally they know that's where evolution is going and the powerful elites borne from that are destined to wipe out the unfit. It scares most people, because most people don't make the list.

> Why allow people to have a child who will cost more to raise than a regular person and wont function as much as one?
I dunno. Why DO we let liberals, niggers, and Muslims breed?

FUCKING OP BTFO

Because this is a slow way for the libs to introduce eugenics, so it's been banned by wise people.

Nobody did that because it isn't actually a profitable or helpful venture. Selective breeding with humans wont actually produce significantly better humans.

That's part of the reason they were ABLE to do it in nazi germany. Since the government was doing it, it didn't need to actually be a PRODUCTIVE thing.

>ban eugenics
>leftist pushing eugenics outraged

Downies are not autistic
Autists are actual humans, don't drop them into the same pot with these monstrosities

>libs

Dude, the libs run on a populist platform, that encourages mixing with blacks, the opposite of eugenics.

Eugenics is about as conservative as it gets, because you're applying strict animal husbandry to humans, and judging them individually, as opposed to pretending they are all equal.

What world are you from? since when does the left push eugenics? It represents the opposite of their ideology of equality.

>eugenics
>governments forcing what people do
>conservative
That's a left concept through and through

Every political structure to push eugenics has been leftist.

what the fuck is this?
do you not have enough to whine about you fucking pussy?

i mean, why does nobody do it after the reich?
back in the reich, it had (and for some measures, needed to) have the full power of the state behind it.
but now. in capitalist economies. all it takes is one rich dude.

whats "significant" in this context?
i thought everything that is needed to make this a profitable venture is for the outcome generation to have enough expendable income to refund the investment needed to make the difference for them.
as far as i understand, the difference between 100 IQ and 110 IQ is an order of magnitude in income levels.

lets say the project continues to select only genetically superior, but due to life circumstances piss poor parents, the expense to get people to breed according to the program should continue to be low enough to be easily covered by the outcome.

Because having a child is an emotional investment not a financial one.

>
>Nobody did that because it isn't actually a profitable or helpful venture. Selective breeding with humans wont actually produce significantly better humans.
It works exactly as good as with all other animals
And yes, it works
2 generations and overweight people would be a thing of the past for example

Oh goddamnit dude, you're retarded.

>government forcing what people do
Like not murdering
Like not stealing
Like not destroying property.

Suddenly everything the government does and is tasked in doing is "leftist" because you haven't actually thought about it.

Get real, dude, eugenics is the opposite of liberal ideology, which runs on a clearly populist platform and pushes a narrative of equality, which is fundamentally at odds with the very existence of eugenics.

Because jesus...and the bible...and blahbibbty blah blah. You'll notice how many families that have mong babies are super christiany. Evangelicals who talk about how their life is enriched and made better by their decision to keep their mentally and emotionally unstable piss and shit factories.

And so their thinking is that if they have to endure them, so do non-christians.

So when you screw your girlfriend under some high voltage lines in southern Ohio and you end up with the one who's been raised an evangelical family, feel free to thank Republicans for glomming on to the Christian Right for political power even though most of them could give a rats ass.

If only lions had been more plentiful.

Well keep in mind that although there is a... trend that intelligence runs in families, it's not a guarantee.

Humans take decades to grow. And in order to produce a reliable positive result you'd need to do it with hundreds or thousands of humans at once.

So each "experiment" in this venture would have to take 20 years to mature. Investing ALLL of the resources necessary to rear a human in possible 50% of failed "trials".

And all this to create MARGINAL improvements in the human animal.

Serious Question:

Who do you think has "pushed eugenics" There is no push from anyone on the subject because the subject is a political pariah due to the history.

The sad (but deliciously hilarious) part is that gullible rednecks like you believe this shit. Why don't you selectively abort yourself right now, its never too late and overweight genocidal rednecks like you will be a thing of the past in two generations...yay!

Using genetic engineering to replace inferior genes is a better strategy. Don't have to kill anybody. Don't have to force anybody to do anything. Don't have to incur the wrath of people pissed at you for infringing on peoples right to reproduce.

>Like not murdering
>Like not stealing
>Like not destroying property.
Those activities directly effect other people's freedom, telling you you can't abort a downs baby because you were an idiot is not, that was your own problem.
I'm not saying allowing it is eugenics in itself, but it is a point that the extremist left can push.
Also when you graduate college and live in the real world a bit then you can talk, boiled down
Furthest Left=total government control
Furthest Right = no government control
Now you can easily say neo-conservatives are right wing in name only, as they do hold many leftist ideals.

Like hell it isn't. If you're not a traditionalist, you actually have to feed these things meals, clothe them, and take care of them your entire life. It's not like the 70's and 80's where you could just put it in a cage in the back yard behind some bushes and throw your scraps in after your meals.

>all it takes is one rich dude.

They already do that, dude, how do you think they decide some people are worth millions and others aren't worth minimum wage? They take the best and pay them, so they can have good lives and be loyal, and the people who can't handle it don't get the money.

In reality, eugenics has never been failed to be practiced, as it has been happening since before it had a name. There just can't be a government organizing it because it's too contentious an issue.

It's been happening in secret for millennia though.There are elites among us that dwarf the average man in intelligence and mental clarity.

It's going to take a fuckton longer than 2 generations to get rid of fat people. It would take 2 generations if all fat people stopped breeding- they haven't.

No dude, You're delusional.

Everyone wants a government that has control, except for libertarians, and that's just another term for anarchy. A government with neither power nor control, simply does not exist.

And... and.... using tools like CRISPR to replace inferior genes has the benefit of being something we're ACTUALLY GOING TO DO IN THE FUTURE.

If not us, then the chinese.

This is shit that is actually going to happen. Doesn't matter how much people bitch about playing god. It's going to happen.

what i am saying is: marginal is sufficient.

in this deeply competitive world, you dont have to be TWICE as good as your brother to make TWICE the amount of money. in terms of speed of solving complex problems, you only have to be 10% better to make 10 times more (for proof of this, see the correlation between income and IQ test results)

the world wont be twice as good. but your Aryans or whether you call them are gonna have such a tremendous combines competitive edge over everyone else, they will be the Übermensch/Herrenrasse Hitler dreamed of.

i dated a millionaire daughter before. it didnt go that way, but i doubt the power of love would have succumbed to her daddy disliking me for being a poor ass nigger

Because humans are a special snowflake species.
None are as important or great, each individual is precious, God made us all in his image, blah blah blah.

What the fuck are you talking about? Up until the early 70's in many states they would perform vasectomies or otherwise fix retarded / orphans / juvenile delinquents. Involuntarily. In 2013 a bunch of female prisoners reported that they got sterilized.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States

It still happens in some parts of the world still.

I think the word you're looking for is authoritarian. Left and right are strictly economic.

>This is shit that is actually going to happen. Doesn't matter how much people bitch about playing god. It's going to happen.

this user gets it.
its always like this, you cannot sto progress. just because the nazis didnt build the bomb didnt mean nobody was gonna build the bomb. and if you think you shouldnt edit humans genes because muh superior moral standards.. someone with less high moral standards is gonna edit them for you.

No it isn't. But it doesn't matter, because we have superior technology now and don't need to employ eugenics. Instead of smashing two sets of DNA together and PRAYING that we get the right combination and it giving us a superior product, we can carefully tailor the genome of a human before they're even conceived by using CRISPR on their gametes.

Highschooler detected.

I'm talking about contemporary reality. You act like "the left is pushing eugenics" You cite some non-partisan shit from 50 years ago like it's relevant to right now.

cheking

Well if so, I've had children in here arguing with me that left is about "rights for everyone" and bullshit public education parroting.

Yea
When you select who breeds with whom
That was my point
Thin parents, that are naturally thin without the need to work out or dieting, have thin children m8
Oh and I'm no redneck, don't know how you got that idea
I never talked about killing anybody, just about selective breeding, you choose the parents and the rest is natural
I'm not even thinking we should do it, just that it would work quite well
>aborting Downies is the only right thing tho

I fully support it. We should have a voice in where our species goes. Sure it'll be used to get rid of disease at firs,t but technology never stays in its pandoras box long. The data for the human genome project is public. So I would say the first time we identify the gay gene there's gonna be a group that tries to edit that out.Which i'm all for. Fags are awful whiny cunts.

And to those who think "oh, well no scientist or doctor would ever break the Hippocratic oath a: hasn't paid much attention to history b: has no idea what constitutes "harm".

If it were up to me, amniosynthesis tests would be mandatory for all pregnant women, and the foetuses identified with birth defects would have to be aborted by law. Of course, for moral and ethical and ethical reasons, this would never pass.

I have a softer stance on this, that isn’t quite as agressive. Through financial leverage, you could strongly incite women to seek the amniosynthesis test. If their kid is sick in some way, say it has Down’s, they would be free to choose to have the kid, but would be barred from any government help and 100% of the costs of raising the child would be theirs to pay. It is your child, your choice, your responsability, not society’s. Society shouldn’t have to take it upon itself to pay for kids who are almost 100% certain of never achieving anything in life from the get go.

All those special workers, educators and the like would be out of work of course, but they could use their minds and skill sets to better use through other career paths.

Some level of intellectual disability is the only feature common to all people who have Down syndrome, although a range of other features are also associated with the condition.

We don't -shouldn't- mandate abortion based on a possibility of what might happen to some, nor do we mandate abortion based on the potential intelligence of the future child.

Dude you're an idiot. The far right isn't running on a "no government platform" That's liberatarians. Both the left and right want control present, just different forms, and what happend in Utah is an unfortunate PROTESTANT CHRISTIAN CONSERVATIVE culture that has allowed this new law. It wasn't liberal, it was misguided Christianity.

the law is neither leftist nor eugenics, but maladapted Christian Ideology. The entire state is Mormon, in case the world is alien to you.

There is no good reason why we shouldn't. Because unlike eugenics, it IS REVERSIBLE.

CRISPR can be used on living adult animals.

And if we need some kind of a gene we USED to have, we can store those genes somewhere, or just store the blueprint and make it manually, and employ CRISPR to re-insert it into the adult population.

Or if for instance we get hit by a plague that takes advantage of some change we made with CRISPR, we can just engineer a new change, and supply it to the people and bam, fixed.

Kek