Motor/sp/ort general - R O S S I P O S S E edition

This week: IndyCar at Phoenix and NASCAR in Richmond

All times in EST
Friday, April 28th
>11:30 AM Cup Practice 1 at Richmond
>1:00 PM Xfinity Practice 1 at Richmond
>3:00 PM Xfinity Practice 2 at Richmond
>4:45 PM Cup Quali at Richmond
>7:00 PM IndyCar Practice at Phoenix
>11:00PM IndyCar Quali at Phoenix

Saturday, April 29th
>9:00 AM Cup Practice 2 at Richmond
>10:05 AM Xfinity Quali at Richmond
>11:30 AM Cup Practice 3 at Richmond
>1:00 PM Xfinity ToyotaCare 250 race at Richmond
>9:30 PM IndyCar Phoenix Grand Prix

Sunday, April 30th
>8:00 AM Formula One Russian Grand Prix
>2:00 PM Toyota Owners 400 Cup Race at Richmond

Feel free to share anything I missed

Other urls found in this thread:

news.com.au/sport/motorsport/v8-supercars/supercars-launches-investigation-after-15-tyre-blowouts-turn-phillip-island-500-into-a-farce/news-story/b2f06e078cd4294430380ed64d5771fe
wwos.nine.com.au/2017/04/22/18/42/supercars-probe-phillip-island-tyre-chaos#bPtH8O0W8mwGYPbu.99
supertaikyu.com/sto/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/kousiki04191.pdf
boards.Sup
f1metrics.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/2016-model-based-driver-rankings/
youtube.com/watch?v=gv8KNya9aeA
twitter.com/AnonBabble

previous thread:

Current thread

future thread:

Think I figured out who that extra 50% was

Who /ragsinabox/ here?

>MFW that supercars race at Phillip Island last weekend downunduh

"...exploding rubber sent 11 Supercars spearing off one of Australia’s fastest race tracks at speeds of up to 250km/h on a day of carnage."

news.com.au/sport/motorsport/v8-supercars/supercars-launches-investigation-after-15-tyre-blowouts-turn-phillip-island-500-into-a-farce/news-story/b2f06e078cd4294430380ed64d5771fe

"At least 11 drivers were impacted by 15 tyre blowouts in Saturday's shortened race."

wwos.nine.com.au/2017/04/22/18/42/supercars-probe-phillip-island-tyre-chaos#bPtH8O0W8mwGYPbu.99

That shit was crazy.

always

At least put some effort in faggot. ARCA, PWC, British GT and probably more are all this weekend. Super GT is Wednesday night/Thursday.

Sunday
>ARCA Kentuckiana Ford Dealers ARCA 200 (200 laps, 111 miles), MAVTV 1415 ET/1815 UTC

>rags

You also forgot SUPER TAIKYU at Sugo this weekend

Heres the timetable in Nipponese supertaikyu.com/sto/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/kousiki04191.pdf

I have no idea how to read this shit but it seems like both races start at 13:00 JST which is 04:00 UTC?

Anyway it will be streamed on their youtube channel

The races themselves start at 1420 and 1400

>indycar faggot making shitty early threads and missing events

Either put the effort in or not at all. You could have let the other thread live more while an actual thread and schedule was being made. Why make one early that's so shitty when the other one still had 200 posts to go?

why don't you make a new one then instead of complaining?

So what do you yanks make of a patrician Formula 1 driver racing in your poxy little yank series?

i think its nice he finally realized monaco is boring

More drivers should skip F1 races to run in other series

is it possible for danica to be more of a basic bitch

I think it's funny how the F1 community has basically called him crazy, and how much they actually fear racing at Indy. Regardless, I wish him well, and respect him for wanting to give it a shot.

>F1
>watchable in the past decade

Never thought I'd see Weezer sponsor a NASCAR ride.

>imblying
No DeMarcus, Monaco is not boring. Driving in an uncompetitive McLaren is boring.

Bernie never allowed it because he wanted F1 to have an aura of exclusivity - he wanted people to be fans of F1, and ONLY F1, because it made him the most money, of course.

And it worked. In this country, F1 has many fans, but those people are rarely fans of other racing. Bernie put the Monaco GP on the same weekend as the Indy 500 precisely because he didn't want people watching Indy. He wanted them to only watch F1.

Now that Bernie's gone, we could see drivers going to do other stuff - but bear in mind that basically all the other team principals in F1 said that they wouldn't have let their drivers do what Fernando is doing. But maybe we will see the teams crossover a bit more. Maybe McLaren will repeat this feat of running a car at Indy, like they used to do in the 60s. Who knows.

But yeah I do think that any crossover is good, between F1, IndyCar, NASCAR, WEC, whatever it is, I think crossover is good.

I don't think he's crazy, it's perfectly understandable why he's looking for a challenge, because he's stuck in the WORST car on the grid right now -
McLaren (well, Honda) are a complete fucking shambles.

Who knows how he'll do, I keep thinking he'll crash out. People are talking about Alex Rossi, but he raced a whole season in IndyCar before the Indy 500, so it's pretty different.

Yeah I think it's great that he's giving it a shot. Most F1 fans want to see Alonso racing, because we know he's one of the best drivers in the series. So it's absolutely shit seeing him stuck in a terrible car, unable to even finish a single race.

>not enjoying the rivalry between HAM and ROS
>not enjoying the rivalry between VET and WEB
Pleb

Just stop posting right now man

>VWL
>MWL
>teamorderswinslol
>frontrowstartwinslol

great "competition" you go there friend

Not an argument

>he thinks team orders dictated either the Red Bull battle or the Mercedes battle
This is how I know that you didn't watch either! Both sets of drivers were allowed to race. Red Bull gave rare team orders, although Seb ignored them anyway.

Both pairs were allowed to race almost all the time, which led to a real battle.

There WERE team orders back in 2004 with Ferrari, but that's a long time ago.

>frontrowstartwinslol
Clearly not true at all since there are always crashes, tyre choice fuck ups and/or strokes of genius, pit stop strategy fuck ups and/or strokes of genius, overtakes, things like that.

Not to mention they have to EARN that front row position through a little thing called "qualifying", and again, even if you have a dominant car like the Mercedes, it's still a battle between the two Merc drivers. But Ferrari and Red Bull have both been in the mix in quali in the last couple of years.
And a

>And a
Whoops, typo

>Bernie never allowed it because he...
Was a dirty midget Jew more concerned about his shekels than creating a quality racing product.

>I keep thinking he'll crash out.

You never know with Indy.

>People are talking about Alex Rossi, but he raced a whole season in IndyCar before the Indy 500

The big difference Alonso is going to have to deal with, compared to F1, is the draft at speed, and it will be interesting to see how he can handle it throughout the race. Oval racing pits driver vs. driver more than it does on road courses, simply due to the speeds involved, and the fact that you can side-draft your competitors to induce drag on their cars and slow them down. With good car control, drivers can side-draft their opponents leading into or out of the corners and get them loose and force them up the track, and that's not something F1 drivers are used to dealing with in a race. I think Alonso can handle the car control issues, but he might actually pose a danger to his peers by not understanding the draft and getting another car loose in a turn and sending them into the wall....at 220 MPH. Hopefully his team will set him straight during practice.

>>frontrowstartwinslol
>Clearly not true at all

2016: Only 3 of 21 races were won by drivers starting outside the first row

2015: Only 1 of 19 races were won by drivers starting outside the first row

Seriously, dude?

>F1

fuck off

boards.Sup Forums.org/sp/thread/75517570\

fuck off

boards.Sup Forums.org/sp/thread/75517570\

fuck off

boards.Sup Forums.org/sp/thread/75517570\

Triggered?

F1 fans are STILL this upset about their drivers jumping ship to Burgerland

>richmond is a day race so arca is on at the same time
ree

>they have to EARN that front row position through a little thing called....

Having a faster car than everybody else in the series.

See: Bottox

I bet the Honda IndyCar could come close to outpacing the McLaren/Honda F1 car

>>Bernie never allowed it because he...
>Was a dirty midget Jew more concerned about his shekels than creating a quality racing product.
Absolutely agreed

>>I keep thinking he'll crash out.
>You never know with Indy.
Indeed. But surely, even with Alonso's confidence, I doubt he will master these cars that quickly. I guess we will see. I hugely doubt he will win it like some people are suggesting. It will be great to watch anyway.

>Oval racing pits driver vs. driver more than it does on road courses, simply due to the speeds involved
Obviously the nature of the racing is different, in IndyCar you stay close to people basically the entire time. But there are still lots of driver v. driver situations in F1 - overtaking on the outside, or through a twisty chicane, other stuff like that. And Alonso is probably the most aggressive, attacking, overtaking driver in F1 right now, despite having the shittest car.

E.g. last season, still in the shittest car, he gained an average of 2.25 positions on the opening lap of each race, compared to just 0.38 places for his teammate Jenson Button, in the same car.

Source if you're interested - some guy came up with a model which showed Alonso to be the best driver last year, despite the worst car (or perhaps second-worst, after the Sauber): f1metrics.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/2016-model-based-driver-rankings/

>you can side-draft your competitors to induce drag on their cars and slow them down. With good car control, drivers can side-draft their opponents leading into or out of the corners and get them loose and force them up the track
True that's not something F1 really has.

>I think Alonso can handle the car control issues, but he might actually pose a danger to his peers by not understanding the draft
Car control will be a big thing to learn too, since the cars are so different. But yes I see what you mean about this drafting thing, I'm sure that will be very new to him.

>Rossi raced a whole season before winning the Indy 500

wrong. Indy is pretty early in the schedule, there's lots of races after it. and most aren't ovals. Rossi only had time to practice on 1 oval before Indy. IndyCar has more road/street circuits than ovals, you'd know that if you actually watched the series.

So clearly there are cases where the front row didn't win. 3 out of 21 isn't bad.

This year it may well be more, since there's more of a mix.

Anyway none of this means that there isn't competition, because there most certainly IS. In the last three seasons there's been competition between the two Merc drivers, and competition among the rest of the teams for the other places. And this season Ferrari are arguably just as competitive as Mercedes - indeed, Vettel is leading the WDC right now, and Ferrari are leading the constructors championship.

Sorry m8.

No I'm not upset. Where did I say I was upset about it?

Firstly Bottas has to fight his teammate Hamilton you fucking idiot

Secondly, FERRARI ARE WINNING THE CHAMPIONSHIP RIGHT NOW, NOT MERCEDES

Hm. Maybe. I don't know. They're set up for completely different forms of racing. But the McLaren is pretty shit so you might be right.

uh IndyCar races road courses too?
Long Beach was a former F1 course?
they aren't "set up for different forms of racing" unless IndyCar is running an oval. road racing is road racing bro. F1 doesn't have a monopoly on that. and McLaren's car is so shit this year I bet a good driver on an IndyCar could have a chance against the McLaren F1 car in a 1 on 1 race.

Okay I misused my words, I know he didn't have a FULL season, but he had the entire season up until that point.

Mate I do know that they run on roads as well. You're right I don't watch it really. I watch F1. But I've been watching some IndyCar stuff on YouTube since this Alonso thing.

Point is that Rossi had much more experience in these cars than Alonso will have.

Actually since you probably know about the series, are there any other drivers in recent years who have entered the Indy 500 without having raced in an IndyCar in any previous race?

there are entrants in the 500 every single year who only race that one race.

for instance, Juan Pablo Montoya has retired from full time IndyCar and is just racing the 500 this year.

granted JPM has experience, but there's always rookies with no previous IndyCar experience driving just the 500. Alonso is just the most high-profile one. it happens often.

also I encourage you to keep watching IndyCar we have comfy race threads on here and honestly the road/street courses are better than any of the ovals save the Indy 500

desu I would be OK with IndyCar only racing one oval, Indy.

Rossi got to practice on and run Phoenix before Indy, which is more than what Alonso will get, and he got the Indy victory on a fuel win, rather than a dominating performance. A win's a win, though, and it's a credit to him and his team.

>3 out of 21 isn't bad.

No, it's atrocious, and the lack of competition is an insult to race fans like you and I, and the drivers that end up running the shitboxes in the series.

> Bottas has to fight his teammate Hamilton

Actually, I'd say that Hamilton has to fight Bottox, less he be exposed as the mediocre driver he is again this year too.

Regardless, my standard of competition is different than yours, and I think race fans deserve to see victories achieved as a result of driver skill more than engineering budgets and oil/fuel cheats.

Alonso is getting a special private test session, the other drivers get just the regular Indy 500 practice and qualifying sessions

The Texas race last year was the best open wheeled race of the entire season in any series.

youtube.com/watch?v=gv8KNya9aeA

That finish was insane.

Alonso is getting rolled out the proverbial red carpet just because he's Fernando fucking Alonso. yeah he's never done Indy before but he's still gonna get more practice time than anyone else. when Kurt Busch from NASCAR decided to try Indy, he didn't get this kind of VIP treatment.

i hope JPM overtakes alonso on the last lap of the 500 to win

KB has literally raced at IMS though

yeah it was alright
but honestly I see IndyCar as what F1 could be, open wheel cars on road courses but with tighter competition due to stricter rules on money taking over the sport. I like ovals too don't get me wrong, but back when there was the CART/IRL split, and IRL only ran ovals, I was watching CART more often. ovals are nice but besides Indy, too many ovals and you might as well watch NASCAR.

yeah, in a NASCAR stock car in the Brickyard 400.
an open wheel car with high downforce and high horsepower compared to a closed wheel car with less horsepower and almost no downforce is much different

indy 500 is a boring meme race
monaco is a boring meme race with no passing and mwl
coke 600 is really boring

the whole day is a meme

for me, it's the Indianapolis 500 Mile Race, the least boring meme race.

ROSSI
O
S
S
I

POSSE
O
S
S
E

nice to know /motorSPort/ general cares about IndyCar for once

>uh IndyCar races road courses too?
>Long Beach was a former F1 course?
I know, and I know, but the latter was an F1 track a pretty long time ago. I think the 80s was the last time it was used. Modern F1 tracks have evolved a lot - they have pretty high and strict standards for construction, partly for safety, but I'm sure there are other reasons, like giving F1 some cachet, and I'm sure advertising space is probably another reason. Bernie was a fucking Jew so everything he did was ultimately about money.

>they aren't "set up for different forms of racing" unless IndyCar is running an oval. road racing is road racing bro. F1 doesn't have a monopoly on that.
Ah that's true I guess, if an IndyCar is set up in its road racing configuration, then yeah I guess you're right.

>and McLaren's car is so shit this year I bet a good driver on an IndyCar could have a chance against the McLaren F1 car in a 1 on 1 race.
That might be true I guess. It would be interesting to see. They've got completely different regulations of course so I wonder which one produces the most downforce - F1 of course invests heavily in aerodynamics, especially the front-wings which are very complex, but IndyCars have nearly-covered rear wheels which I guess gives downforce, and less turbulence. F1 now has bigger tyres which I guess have bigger contact patches - but I wonder how the tyre compounds differ. And of course acceleration and straight line speed would be interesting - F1 cars have the hybrid boost for acceleration, but the IndyCar might be faster on long straights, because that's where the McLaren suffers, due to a power deficit from the engine.

This is not relevant to the current cars, but I read how in the early 90s they raced CART cars and F1 cars at the Canadian Gilles Villeneuve circuit, and the CART cars were a few seconds slower per lap. Obviously today's cars are different though.

They're doing that because it would be a PR nightmare if the special snowflake F1 driver ends up getting smeared across the turn 1 concrete barrier and catch-fence at Indy for fucking up, and they want to be able to say they "did everything they could" to prepare Alonso for the race.

>Kurt Busch from NASCAR
That nigger spent years driving a 3500 pound brick around Indy, Talladega, and Daytona, at damn near 200 MPH already, so I don't think it's a big transition when you get a car that's half the weight, has way more downforce, and actually way better than the shitbox you normally run in, in every possible way. Pretty based, regardless, as he finished 6th after starting from P12.

>granted JPM has experience, but there's always rookies with no previous IndyCar experience driving just the 500. Alonso is just the most high-profile one. it happens often.
Ah right okay. Yes I was going to say, JPM of course has raced IndyCar many times before and won the 500 twice - that's part of the small amount of knowledge I do actually know.

What do Americans think of him? He was one of the best F1 drivers during his time, without a doubt, and it's incredibly rare for an F1 driver at the top of his game to leave for something else. I always wish he had stayed longer, almost any other driver in his situation would have done. He's a cocky arrogant bastard but he was good. I reckon he could have won the championship if he hadn't started slipping in form, and falling out with McLaren. In the two years after he left, 2007 and 2008, Lewis Hamilton in the McLaren came 2nd and then 1st in the championship. That could have been Montoya. Although I guess I'm glad it was Lewis.

I have watched clips of road courses on YouTube, I was watching a race being led by Takuma Sato (of course from F1), for him to lose it on the last lap.

Anyway if nothing else I'll watch the Indy 500 of course to see Alonso fuck it all up.

I'll dig a little further to see how long ago the last true Indy one-off was, but here's a look at the grand oval racing credentials of last year's rookie class.

>Rossi, 5 Indycar races, 1 on an oval
>Chilton, 5 Indycar races, 1 on an oval
>Brabham, 1 Indycar race, 1 full season in Indy Lights (won a race at Indy)
>Pigot, 2 Indycar races, 1 season in Indy Lights
>Wilson, 1 Indycar race, ~2 full seasons in Indy Lights

yeah, CART/Champ Car used to race at Circuit Gilles Villenueve in Montreal and I think the lap times were about 7 or 8 seconds slower than F1. not bad, considering the tiny budget of the teams compared to F1 budgets.

that's why I wish Fernando Alonso was going to race the race before the 500, the Indy Grand Prix, which takes place on the infield road course that the F1 US GP used to race on, about a week before the Indy 500 on the superspeedway. would be interesting to see him race the Dallara/Honda Indy Car on a familiar road course and then see how he does on the oval (correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he ran the F1 US GP at Indianapolis earlier in his career)

Most recent would be Sage Karam, who finished 9th in the 2014 500, his first Indycar race.

>What do Americans think of him?
He wasn't very good and hit a jet dryer

>i hope JPM overtakes alonso on the last lap

I see JPM side-drafting the shit out of him and intentionally making his car loose to fuck with Alonso's head.
>"Bienvenido a Indy, puta."

American race fans like Montoya generally, maybe some of the NASCAR rednecks don't because he's "a furriner" but he's considered a legend among Indy Car fans. also he's the only living driver to have won 2 legs of the "Triple Crown of Motorsport", i.e., win Monaco GP, win Indy 500, win LeMans 24 hours. if he could try for and win LeMans, he could be the next Graham Hill.

Jack Harvey will be Alonso's teammate and the 500 will also be his first race.

Lets see who finishes higher

>No, it's atrocious, and the lack of competition is an insult to race fans like you and I, and the drivers that end up running the shitboxes in the series.
1) Even if a car is dominant, there is still competition between the drivers of that team
2) Even if a car is dominant, there is still competition between all the other teams for podium places
3) Even if a car is dominant, there are usually certain tracks where they're *not* dominant, e.g. Monaco, where Red Bull were the best team last year. They qualified on pole, and should have won the race, but they lost because they fucked up their pit stop.

>Actually, I'd say that Hamilton has to fight Bottox, less he be exposed as the mediocre driver he is again this year too.
All the same shit mate, the point is the teammates are fighting each other.

>Regardless, my standard of competition is different than yours, and I think race fans deserve to see victories achieved as a result of driver skill more than engineering budgets and oil/fuel cheats.
You don't understand F1 - engineering has ALWAYS been a part of the competition, and always will be.

Lotus with ground effects. Williams with active suspension (picture related). Red Bull with blown diffusers. Mercedes with a split turbo. The engineering has always been a part of the competition in F1. It isn't a spec series.

I hope he does get lots of practice time, because while I'm not getting my hopes up, I do think it would be fucking awesome if he won.

Do Americans know who Alonso is? I would have thought they probably don't.

Kek.

>monaco is a boring meme race
No it's not, it's arguably one of the most exciting because there are ALWAYS crashes. It's probably the most challenging circuit of the year.

>mwl
Red Bull were the best car there last year, and could well be this year too. Or maybe Ferrari, but I would bet on Red Bull.

Can this blind F1tard stop already? The delusion of his is painful.

>do Americans know who Alonso is

American race fans do, but the general public who only turn on NASCAR when football isn't on, might not. general "normie" Americans only know F1 via Mario Andretti, and the younger generations might not even know Mario.

>What do Americans think of him?

I respect the fuck out of JPM and think he's a great race car driver.

That pudgy little fucker has won races in pretty much every series he's driven in, and that's not easy to do.

I remember when Ayrton Senna died, Dale Earnhardt Sr. gave his condolences to Senna's family in a post-race interview. I'm sure a lot of viewers were like "who the hell is Ayrton Senna?!"

>I believe he ran the F1 US GP at Indianapolis earlier in his career

He ran it 6 times from 01'-07', but not in 02'.

I like that image. But please don't call F1 drivers "special snowflakes".

Interesting. Thanks.

Yes he did drive in the F1 US GP, nearly won it a couple of times I think. This was back in the early-mid 2000s, before the big 2005 controversy, where only 3 out of 10 teams ran in the race - the reason being that the Michelin tyres used by all the other teams were failing in the last banked corner, the only banked corner in F1 for the last few decades I think.

Yeah it definitely would be cool to see Alonso do that, since he would of course be right in his element on a road track, and especially one he has raced a few times before.

Ah wow. So there are people who have done it. Fair.

>he wasn't very good
Do you mean in NASCAR, or Indy, or both? The fact that he's won the Indy 500 twice is pretty good, right?

Fair. Yeah I know about the two legs thing, and I don't think it would be that hard to win Le Mans, you just have to get on the right team, and I'm sure they'd make a space for him. Nico Hulkenberg and Mark Webber, both F1 drivers (the latter having retired), both raced at Le Mans in 2015 and they came 1st and 2nd respectively.

yeah so he at least knows one turn of the banked oval, except the road course runs it the opposite direction.

I think Fernando is gonna do just fine. I'm excited to see it, although I'd like to see him in an IndyCar on a road course as well

that user was talking about his relatively unsuccessful NASCAR attempt, and yes he hit the jet dryer on the track lol

the thing with Lemans is, yeah you race great, car is running fast all day all night, you have a chance to win, but then one of your co-drivers wrecks it coming off the Mulsanne straight and your race is done. LeMans is teamwork, beyond the regular driver/pit crew/strategist teamwork. you have to rely on 2 other drivers.

>stop liking things I don't like
Picture related

Fair enough

Very true. He has done pretty well. I still think he's an arrogant cunt, but so are all the best racing drivers, because you have to be. Schumacher, Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton - they're all arrogant cunts as well.

>engineering has ALWAYS been a part of the competition

Agree, but it shouldn't be ALL of the competition.

F1 has a history of having shit formula's that allow one team to dominate the shit out of the entire field due to having way more cash, and far better equipment, and that makes shit racing.

this.

in IndyCar, Penske is the top team, and has been for decades. they have the most funding, but they don't win every race because of money. the rules in IC prevent that. smaller, less rich teams have a good chance to win. it becomes more of a contest of drivers rather than a contest of which team has the most money to build the highest technology car. kind of like Super GT. in that series, fast cars are penalized via weight, so Nissan in their GT-Rs don't win every race. I think it's fair to say Americans like an underdog, and would prefer a more equal playing field so the competition is more based on driving skill than constructor funding and technology.

TL;DR I think IndyCar and Super GT are the most competitive and exciting racing series in the world today

>so Nissan in their GT-Rs don't win every race
kek

>his relatively unsuccessful NASCAR attempt

He did achieve 3 victories in his career, though, so for that he gets some respect. All road courses, though. 1 in Mexico in the Xfinity series, and 1 each at Sonoma and the Glenn in cup.

Funny how the road racers just can't seem to land a victory on an oval in a stock car. Marcos Ambrose couldn't even do it, and he drove stock "like" cars down under, and was the super V8 champ 2 years in a row before he came to cup.

just an example
depends on whether Honda Toyota or Nissan has the technological advantage in a given year

road course guys can adapt to ovals
oval guys can't adapt to road courses

look at Ed Carpenter

>oval guys can't adapt to road courses

And yet you've got dudes like Mario Andretti, and fat Tony Stewart that did well in both despite starting off on dirt tracks and ovals.

Mario did well at both

Tony was mostly an oval winner

>tfw the IndyCar race isn't until the weekend but you want it NOW

aahhhhhh

>Tony was mostly an oval winner
He won 7% of oval races he started in cup and 24% of road courses

>Tony was mostly an oval winner

True, but fat Tony did win the 97' Indy series championship, and he ran Xfinity races that year as well.

OK but what's his road course win percentage driving an IndyCar?

in NASCAR to win a road course you basically just have to have turned right in a race car in your life. that's why "road course ringers" were a thing.

the 1997 IRL championship was contested on OVALS

Undefined because he never ran any
Those road course ringers weren't actually winning races

>tfw NASCAR running Watkins Glen or Sonoma is "JUST FUCK MY SHIT UP": The Race

Ah I see, thanks.

Very true. But I think JPM could get in a good team if he wanted to. Nico fucking Hulkenberg, a middling F1 driver (he is considered quite talented, but still) managed to get into the best Porsche team and win Le Mans. So I'm sure JPM could wrangle such a seat if he wanted to.

>Agree, but it shouldn't be ALL of the competition.
But it isn't. As I say, even if you have a dominant car, there is still the competition between the two teammates, and there is still fierce competition between the other teams. The top 10 finishers in each race get points, and those points contribute to the constructor's championship, and that's very important to constructors, because their finishing place determines how much money they get for the next season. So the competition is always fierce.

>F1 has a history of having shit formula's that allow one team to dominate the shit out of the entire field
The recent Mercedes dominance has been VERY unusual - the last period of such dominance really was the McLarens of the 1980s.

Red Bull sort of dominated between 2010 and 2013, but not really, because they didn't win as many races per season as the recent Mercs - the contests for each championship were much closer, with the likes of Ferrari and McLaren.

>due to having way more cash
McLaren are currently one of the best funded teams on the grid, having essentially the same budget as Mercedes, yet they are nowhere, because Honda have a rubbish Japanese corporate culture, refusing to take help from the outside, while the other engine manufacturers hire from each other.

So it's not just budget - it's often about *innovation*.

Brawn GP had the 7th highest budget in 2009, only one third of McLaren (the highest that year), but they won the title.

Toyota had the largest budget in 2008, but they only came 5th.

...

Just Fun my shit up*

>in IndyCar, Penske is the top team, and has been for decades. they have the most funding, but they don't win every race because of money.
You've literally just proved that IndyCar has the same budget/success relationship that you criticise F1 for.

>I think it's fair to say Americans like an underdog, and would prefer a more equal playing field so the competition is more based on driving skill than constructor funding and technology.
As I said to the other guy, Brawn GP won the title in 2009, but they only had the 7th highest budget. It was $163m, while McLaren's, the highest, was $484m.

And like I also said to him, Toyota had the highest F1 budget in 2008, at $446m, but they only came 5th in the constructor's championship.

And like I also said to him, McLaren essentially have the joint-top budget right now (McLaren, Mercedes, and Red Bull all had €465 - €469 for the 2016 season), yet they are last. LAST.

Innovation doesn't always require money, and underdogs DO win in Formula 1.

Famous underdogs would be the Brawn GP championship in 2009, as well as Sebastien Vettel's race win in a Toro Rosso (small team) in 2008. Not to mention that Mercedes were a rubbish team until only recently. Same with Red Bull, they were rubbish for ages, even with a high budget. It takes time to develop engineering talent, and a good team. And Ferrari always have one of the highest budgets, because they get a special dispensation just for being Ferrari (they're considered valuable to F1), but they've underperformed in the last few years.

Another underdog would be Williams doing pretty well in recent season, despite their budget being about a third of the top teams.

>€465 - €469
I meant millions, obviously.

very true
any team running LeMans would be stupid not to take Montoya, his record in various categories of racing speaks for itself. even if he doesn't win the "Triple Crown" of Monaco, Indy, LeMans; he will still go down in history as one of the all-time greats of motor sport.

no, I didn't. Penske, while great, is nowhere near as dominant in the IC series as Mercedes is right now in F1.

>that's why "road course ringers" were a thing.

And yet even the road courses are dominated by oval and dirt racers.

He is good.

Mercedes aren't dominant anymore. Ferrari are now leading the championship after the first three races this season, and they could very well win the season.

If you don't like the fact that F1 isn't a spec series then fine, go ahead, you'll never like it in that case, because it will never be a spec series.

To say that it doesn't have competition is false. Maybe Americans don't like having to understand the technological innovations of the different cars? Shame.

>there is still the competition between...

I just don't agree.

F1 races are essentially over after the qualification, and the stats clearly demonstrate that fact.

To each their own, dude.

also I like F1 too, it's just I'd rather watch old GPs from the late 80s and early 90s than current F1. the cars looked better back then, the engines sounded better back then. sure it was just as tech-oriented then, but at least we had Senna, Prost, and Mansell to watch back then.(Mansell, I might add, did very well when he came to CART, the precursor of modern IndyCar. also Emerson Fittipaldi and of course Mario and Michael Andretti)