Malik sees nature as a higher power, as something beautiful. Herzog sees nature as grotesque and violent...

Malik sees nature as a higher power, as something beautiful. Herzog sees nature as grotesque and violent. Which do you agree with more? Why?

Both.

Both and neither.

Herzog. Nature is what causes women to bleed out their vagina.

PS. Because nature is neither beautiful nor ugly, because such concepts do not exist in nature, only in humans. Nor can nature be violent as 'violence' is just a human concept.

Nature just is.

not a great comparison, mate. Malick also sees nature as violent and unforgiving. however, he also sees Grace, whereas Herzog seems to eschew it. both are valid ways to see the world, but Herzog doesn't or no longer seems to care to explore any deeper meaning beside the superficial. he documents it and that's it. Malick explores. that's my two cents.

Kubrick

Nature is neutral, completely indifferent.

nature is a human concept

They both see nature as something inert and dumb when put in respect to humans.
For Malick nature exists to be destroyed by man.
For Herzog nature's destruction by man is simply a repetition of its own (self)destructive power.

Both of them just use nature as an arena to show the same fundamentally ambivalent humanity

Is nature really featured in Kubrick films though? Besides Full Metal Jacket i can't think of any and even that's a stretch

>Malik sees nature as a higher power, as something beautiful. Herzog sees nature as grotesque and violent. Which do you agree with more?
The stoic.

Nature is the church of Satan.

True.

But we need some concept to separate from 'us'.

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Both.

>For Malick nature exists to be destroyed by man.

That's not necessarily true. The ending shot of The Thin Red Line is a coconut tree growing despite all the warring in the film.

Ah yes, the Von Trier line

malick tries to beautify or sanitize nature and herzog shows it as it really is. Malick is a fag basically

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yep

>malick tries to beautify or sanitize nature and herzog shows it as it really is
this is sophomoric thinking, mate. Malick has shown multiple perspectives on nature, sometimes in a single film, while Herzog has stayed stuck in his nature is horrible or an obstacle to overcome phase. saying Herzog portrays nature "as it really is" is not saying much and is basically equivocation.

>malick tries to beautify or sanitize nature

Does he? The opening shot of The Thin Red Line is an alligator going into the water. It's not so much beautiful or sanitary as it just "is." The ending shot shows that nature gets on just fine without humanity. That no matter how much we kill each other nature's just gonna go on.

i honestly think that user equates pretty pictures/cinematography with beautifying and sanitizing nature without analyzing the narrative. not to mention the dunce who agreed with him.

Herzog sees nature as something to be fought against and lost to. There's beauty in the struggle even if it's futile blah blah blah

Do I want to watch this?

Nature is beautiful, grotesque, and violent

You want to watch The Thin Red Line.

its a good movie

yes
the fact you haven't already makes me question you

>sees nature as grotesque and violen
Sounds about right but how do you deliver it

Yes

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Nature is beautiful, neutral and indifferent.
Herzog is wrong that it's grotesque and violent, calling it violent is implying that it has a choice when nature just does what it does.

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Everything sucks, everything is good. Man is uncertain about his place.

Be aware that it has philosophical voice overs of characters, montages of nature, and its not as action packed as Saving Private Ryan but it removes the melodramatic aesthetics Spielberg used in SPR

>i honestly think that user equates pretty pictures/cinematography with beautifying and sanitizing nature without analyzing the narrative.
true, but I was only thinking of knight of cups, tree of life and to the wonder which to me are pretty but uninteresting movies

Malik said nature isn't evil, big difference

i always loved that shot - among my favorites ever. The Thin Red Line really is a marvelous film. that first act alone could be a film unto itself.

okay, i hear you. however, do try to look further into Tree of Life and The Thin Red Line. while those films are jokes or memes around here, Malick does tackle weighty themes and is well-versed in philosophical studies beyond your typical filmmaker. the way he presents his arguments are probably not for everyone, but there's no doubt the cinematography of his films are divine.

Herzog doesn't say that.

>malik sees nature as something he can cut into a scene when its going nowhere because he's a massive hack

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I think maybe, and this might be insulting too that user, that he somewhat confuses nature and Kubricks depiction of space and the universe as a whole in 2001. Although, that could also be said to be the same thing, when it all comes down to it.

That's just fucking beautiful.

Yeah, it's beautiful. But Malick gets way in over his head.

Correction: malik believes God himself is guiding his film making process and drops everything to pursue any shot he thinks God is giving him.

Been on my to-watch list forever. Just torrented it. Excited. Also, have a very solid buzz going so I'm even more pumped than I usually would be. I've heard nothing but good things, but the constant mentions of cinematography and nature just pushed me over the edge so now I have to see it.

Cheers everyone.

Lyndon

Malick sees Nature as an extension of God, therefore perfect and beautiful. Herzog sees nature as chaos, a neverending interaction between prey and predator looking for survival. This view is made very clear by the end of Grizzly Man, when he sees the bear for what it truly is: a hungry beast. He sees this exchange with wild animals as dangerous and not beatiful.

Also just realized that there is a song I have on my driving playlist that has a spiced in audio bit form this song. Explosions in the Sky - Have You Passed Through This Night?

Pretty neat. Paused after the first 45 seconds or so and typed this. The opening scene is great. Gonna be a fun night faggots!

Keep us posted user

Drunk, happy, and I shall. Already it's a beautiful film.

>Kubrick
*tips*

read some heidegger m8

>The Thin Red Line really is a marvelous film

Truly is. I mean damn I used to watch it every few months just to remind myself that life is both beautiful and terrible at the same time. I should get back into that habit. Was very therapeutic for me.

This shot man, this shot.

>Oh, my soul, Iet me be in you now. Look out through my eyes. Look outat the things you made. All things shining.

I don't think that's a fair representation of Herzog's beliefs. In my opinion he tries his hardest to represent nature as inscrutiable, the ultimate mystery, which sometimes can be ravishingly beautiful and sometimes cruel and deadly. I think that Malick obviously does a better job conveying the beauty in the world, but Herzog portrays the world more accurately and finds more meaning in it.

I'm at a bit of a crossroads in my life. I hope this film kinda helps. I rarely let films affect me like that, it's usually just me re-watchin LotR or something. But I'm intrigued by this. I can't believe I haven't seen it before, but I've been a Netflix, sitcom whore the past year. Films like this make real life seem too real, which I've been avoiding for over a year while traveling and just never committing to something. So far so good, this is some good shit.

Enough. The man deserves credit. Besides, every far-right faggot in america states Kubrick as their favourite director. (Bit of an overstatement, sure, but he's popular in that crowd)

stop blogging on Sup Forums and watch the movie faggot

No. Don't.

It's a pretty dark film, man. I'm not sure you're going to find the catharsis you seek. Hope you enjoy the film.

Hey dickhead, I'm sorry multi-tasking is not a part of your arsenal, but a 30 second pause isn't gonna kill my film experience. I appreciate your worry nonetheless.

this is wrong tho

can't speak for herzog, but malick clearly shows his beliefs in the thin red line

the opening shot of the alligator contrasts with the melanisan tribes shown a bit later. his work consistently contrasts the nature that binds humanity but also the grace we're capable of achieving

witt's sacrifice at the end of TTRL is the ultimate sign of humanity's power: he could have surrendered, but he died for his beliefs.

>witt's sacrifice at the end of TTRL is the ultimate sign of humanity's power: he could have surrendered, but he died for his beliefs.

Maybe I'm depressed, but I always interpreted Witt's dying at the end of TTRL as him committing suicide because he refused to live in Sargent Welsh's world.

remember, user, remember.

Private Witt: I remember my mother when she was dyin', looked all shrunk up and gray. I asked her if she was afraid. She just shook her head. I was afraid to touch the death I seen in her. I couldn't find nothin' beautiful or uplifting about her goin' back to God. I heard of people talk about immortality, but I ain't seen it.
Private Witt: I wondered how it'd be like when I died, what it'd be like to know this breath now was the last one you was ever gonna draw. I just hope I can meet it the same way she did, with the same... calm. 'Cause that's where it's hidden - the immortality I hadn't seen.


Witt loves his company, and he loved that tribe too. He even loved his enemies in a way. He didn't want to continue the struggle that nature commands him to participate in. That look on his face is him finding that immortality he saw; he knew he was about to breathe his last breath, and he found the glory.

Right. I agree that Witt faced death calm, just like his momma. And that he cares about the company, about Welsh, all of them; the tribe too. But you gotta remember he saw another tribe on the island that was afraid of him. He saw that they were disease ridden and fighting amongst each other.

>He even loved his enemies in a way

Agreed. He holds that Japanese soldier when the Americans assault their camp. Earlier than that he tried offering one of the gunners from the hill a stick of gum.

>He didn't want to continue the struggle that nature commands him to participate in.

This is what i mean by committing suicide. He didn't want to be in this kind of world anymore.

>That look on his face is him finding that immortality he saw; he knew he was about to breathe his last breath, and he found the glory.

Now this I'm not sure of. His momma died far away from the battlefield, and hadn't seen the things he saw. Again I'm probably depressed so that means I see it differently than you.

'fata morgana' is still greater than anything malick has ever done.

and i like malick.

the importance of his dialogue about his mother, as a scene, is fulfilled by the ending tho.

that thousand yard stare could have stood on its own, but it's given even more emphasis with the larger themes of the film. nature contending with itself; humanity once was a family, lightness and darkness. i understand your point of view in contrasting witt to welsh, but witt believed there was a spark in welsh too. perhaps it's hard for me to see as a rejection of the world he was in; i see it as a sacrifice.

also he did indeed see the effects of the war on the tribe, which makes it more of a sacrifice than anything; his death won't cause anymore suffering.

i feel strongly about this too, considering malick's later works, especially the tree of life which once more visits, albeit even more strongly, nature versus grace.

i should correct myself and say that, with his death, he won't contribute directly or indirectly to the suffering of people anymore.

>but witt believed there was a spark in welsh too.

And Welsh says to Witt's own grave "where's your spark now?"

>also he did indeed see the effects of the war on the tribe, which makes it more of a sacrifice than anything; his death won't cause anymore suffering.

I saw it as the breakdown of his initial beliefs from the film's introduction, egged on by Welsh. I suppose we'll just agree to disagree on the terms of Witt's death. I haven't yet seen Tree Of Life or his other later works, well I saw The New World but that was years ago, but I'm not too surprised that ultimately Malick believes in the beauty of life and can see why you would interpret Witt's death as sacrifice instead, that he found the glory given the film's ending narration:

>Oh, my soul, let me be in you now. Look out through my eyes. Look out at the things you made. All things shining.

All things shining, the glory in the things God made. So there's certainly validity in what you're saying there.

I'm 27. I cannot imagine being drafted and thrown out somewhere to fight people I have no legitimate gripe against.

I've been raised with guns, and I can shoot (a 30-30) especiallly. But Jesus... Ony half-ish way through now, but people forget how dirty war was, Different now. But fuck, war was grimy,

I think we all know what the real question that needs to be answered here is: Was Herzog's Nosferatu better or worse than the original?

The battle for the hill is some good shit. I love how it takes up a third of the film.