Why are Reverse-Traps not a thing?

Why are Reverse-Traps not a thing?

Technically they're women.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=LLpIMRowndg
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780758/
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/gids-referrals-increase-slows-201617/
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

they are

They're not popular here because they are actually women.

They are a thing, but most guys would prefer tomboys.

Primarily, because they don't exist.

There are no benefits - either social or fiscal - to being a man.

So they don't exist (outside of Disney fantasy). QED.

Just seems like people would be intigued by the kink value.

You'd be fucking a woman, who looks like a good-looking man, but puts out female pheromones so you never lose your boner.

youtube.com/watch?v=LLpIMRowndg

What if you were a lesbian and didn't want people to find out?

One of the previous chans, cant remember her name, was a reverse trap. Every fag here likes to think that its a boy but its actually a girl.

Im digging through my Sup Forums folder to try and see if i have a picture

There's no social stigma at all to being a homosexual female in the West.

If your parents are VERY religious, you might get disowned by them, but frankly, you don't want people like that in your life. So you'd probably wake up a few years down the track and realise it's a good thing.

Trans user here. 'Female to Male' people exist, as do non gender conforming women who don't identify as male.
I think this comes down to your only experience with trans people being through fetishes.

Advantages seem clear enough to me.

Get to be "one of the guys" without the gender barrier being an issue.

I wonder what would happen if Sup Forums started threads where the objective was for women to pass for men.

trans people dont exist since gender is a social construct

Trans user here aswell

Fuck off, that wasn't even close to the question being asked and you know it. Spout that sjw garbage somewhere else.

I just want the "Trap" thing to stop being so one-direction.

I want to see women who can pass convincingly for men.

That would be a very interesting experiment. Interesting, but it would disappear off page 10 in short order for total absence of takers.

I agree gender is a social construct. So is money, but you don't say 'no one is poor because money is a social construct'. Because of the social construct of gender, I feel uncomfortable living the role of my sex as dictated by society and so I am trans. If gender were deconstructed maybe I wouldn't have dysphoria, but because that social construct is very real I do and to ignore it would be to make my mental health worse for the sake of semantics.
Hope that helps explain things.
Wat. They were asking if 'male traps' exist, which either means women who dress like dudes or men who were born women. I just said both do exist, I didn't mean to spout any SJW anything. I just stated facts.

shit just got real

two anons trying to claim the same victim status

*grabs popcorn*

It'd just have to be a recurring thread for a while, posted mainly at the slow hours of Sup Forums.

Eventually it would get traction, as interested people figured out when the thread would appear.

You say that it's because OP was only exposed to the fetish side of trans women/crossdressers, but you do realize how saying that makes you sound right? There's plenty of female to males that pass well, they're just not posted here. Hell there was one on /soc/ literally yesterday.

First user here, I'm not a victim and I've not got any problem with anyone in this thread.
No drama, we're all friends on Sup Forums right

transgenderism is a mental illness

Can you prove that or is it just, like, your opinion, man?

Same trans user as before.

You're not telling us anything we don't already know, dysphoria is an actual mental illness, yes.

this is Sup Forums, i don't have to prove shit.
fuck you nigger

It's not that hard a concept to grasp, and it's not necessarily a bad one. Look at it this way, if you're born male and feel like you're a female trapped in a male body, there's something wrong there. It's not terrible and should be acceptable as it's not destructive to anyone around you, but it should be treated with care since it's a real issue some people have and need to deal with.

Are you upset fren? You seem to have rustled your jimmies

Wasn't there a study published recently that showed that actual documented cases of genuine dysphoria only make up like 20% of transgender cases, and the remainder are doing it for social reasons?

I mean I dunno what your point is there. People do take it seriously, that's why they medically transition as per leading medical opinion. I don't disagree with anything you've said but I don't think it really substantiates the idea that 'trans is a mental illness' as clearly as you imply it should.

sad but true, look at how low we've fell

I dunno, you tell us and source it. Otherwise it's just 'I heard some guy said X once'.

Honestly, I'd settle for artwork if it got content made.

Take Tracer.

She could pass for a man, likely a gentleman type with a bit of aristocratic pretension.

did I read right that some huge proportion of trannys suicide?

sounds like more than social reasons to me

Yo though transgender =/= transexual.

because no one wants to fuck a woman. what are you a faggot or something?

just poking the beehive of identity politics, but the bees didn't take the bait this time.

I unironically love androgynous women.

It creates a condition in which the person suffering from it, if left to their own devices with no social or medical intervention, will engage in self-harming behaviors.

To stave off those self-harming behaviors, they are recommended to undergo surgery and/or take hormone supplements that helps them more closely align with their internal vision of themselves.

That seems very much like a mental illness.

Mentally there's something wrong, and it requires treatment in the same way depression or anxiety might. If it goes untreated it generally causes more bad for the person suffering from it. It's not so far off, what else would it have to be classified as?

The study you're loosely referring to shows that trans people have a higher chance of having attempted suicide, but that includes pre-transition. It's only a revelation in as much as it shows 'feeling shitty makes you more likely to an hero'.

And don't say the breasts and butt will spoil it. She can tape her boobs down, and a sufficiently large long coat would hide her butt.

She can pass for a man.

Sup Forums is more of a love/hate relationship.
We're all frenemies here more like.

A tranny is a trans woman who's pre-operation but gone through HRT, generally they're pretty happy with their life so no you did not "read right that some huge proportion of trannys suicide?"
The study you're thinking about draws a correlation between non-acceptance and suicide in trans teens, specifically teens, and it points to a problem with the person's environment and loved ones rather than with them.

Fair play, as you were
And I agree dysphoria is a mental health issue, and that the medically agreed upon treatment is therapy followed by transition if needed. That doesn't mean being trans is a mental illness, or that transitioning is disingenuous or a bad idea for trans people.
It does. That treatment, as agreed upon by leading medical opinion, is therapy and transition. Being trans is not a mental illness, but it causes dysphoria which is.

ALL I WANTED WAS AN IDENTITY POLITICS BLOODBATH

IS THIS TOO MUCH TO ASK????

So do you guys agree that Tracer could pass for a man?

Well if you're gonna be this upset and loud about it?
Yes, it is too much to ask, your reaction is way more fun.

Different user here, we're sorry dude. Just looking for acceptance, turns out being sensitive little cucks doesn't help that.

I didn't make it clear enough that was me, I meant dysphoria when talking about this, my bad for not correctly pointing that out.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780758/
The DSM-IV estimates that 1 in 30000 natal males and 1 in 100000 natal females have GID among the US population; however, these figures are based on older, limited data.1 More recent research, from other countries, reports that GID may be more common,19 ranging from approximately 1 in 13000 natal males and 1 in 34000 females in Belgium20 to 1 in 11000 natal males and 1 in 20000 natal females in the Netherlands.21 Although more precise estimates of population prevalence are unavailable, trends across studies suggest that GID is more common among natal males than among natal females,19 with a prevalence ratio of 3 natal males with GID to every 1 natal female with GID.17


>Separate report
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/How-Many-Adults-Identify-as-Transgender-in-the-United-States.pdf
This report utilizes data from the CDC’s Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System (BRFSS) to estimate the percentage and number of adults who identify as transgender nationally and in all 50 states.
3 We find that 0.6% of U.S. adults identify as transgender. This figure is double the estimate that utilized data from roughly a decade ago and implies that an estimated 1.4 million adults in the U.S. identify as transgender.


I can't find a report that collates those data-points, but I can say the math doesn't quite align correctly.

oh well

was worth a try

i am noticing the lack of this threads ostensible purpose though

bring on the negatraps!

williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

Not necessarily.

Just realized I hadn't replied yet, second user here, there was a misunderstanding and I hadn't read the op well enough, i thought they were asking about cis women crossdressing being posted on Sup Forums but they weren't actually specific enough.

The DSM-IV is notoriously outdated when it comes to trans issues though, I think it's difficult to use it as a source from a statistical angle as you are attempting.
Finding two sources and stitching them together is very different to a study, which is what you originally cited. It comes with a whole host of issues, least of which is that it can only ever imply correlation and has no means of looking any deeper than that,

Reverse traps are just called tomboys though.
They've been a thing for ages, they're the girl you grew up with who had scraped knees and who would compete with you on who could climb the highest in trees.

I asked why Reverse-Traps (women who can pass for men) aren't more of a fetish ("a thing") on Sup Forums.

Technically a tomboy can usually be identified as a woman though.

Yes, but the DSM-V has... "credibility issues".

Source: for some reason, I know a few practising psychologists.

So then why are you trying to use either as a source? Seems to me you are trying to make data fit your opinion, rather than forming an opinion based on data.

Multiple sources = reliability

What? Yes there is.. There's not as much as there used to be but I know a handful of people that have come out as gay and been disowned or kicked out of their house.

>cuz we r not gay
ask women - maybe thats their fetish

I think you're mixing me up with some other user. I've made no claims based upon either DSM-IV or DSM-V. Let me clarify: I'm not a psychologist, practising or otherwise, myself, nor do I have anything other than the vaguest idea of either manuals' contents.

But even if we take the
>1 in 11000 natal males and 1 in 20000 natal females in the Netherlands.
portion of the report (which is 3x greater than DSM-IV cites in regards to actual documented cases of dysphoria), the math still comes out as 0.009%, compared to a whopping 0.6% claimed by the Williams Institute.

That is a staggering difference. It's not definitive, but it's a fairly strong correlation.

If there were showing the same thing, yeah. Here the user has tried to glue one source for one thing to another source for a different thing together, completely ignoring the reliability issues that come from this Frankenstein source.
This isn't two sources, it's two half-sources presented as a whole.

Depends on the sources, if you read back far enough in the theory of white privilege, you'll get an opinion piece from some internet blog.
All the "studies" on it leads back to someone musing on it with no evidence.

Echo, echo...

And both of those are mental illnesses in the same class as schizophrenia or delirium.

>A study by the nih and a study by the williams institute are both basically tumblr

>that have come out as gay and been disowned or kicked out of their house.
Was said house deeply religious or in other ways fundamentalist?
If so, you just corroborated the other guys point.

Oh I see, thanks for clarifying. I assumed you were the user using the DSM-IV as half of a source.
But that's still coming from a source we've established is A)outdated and B) not showing the full picture as explained in Why should we accept the figures you use in this post, with that in mind?

Get in line boi I'm already arguing this point with some other anons.

I never said that, I was providing an example of sources ending up in non-science if you go back far enough through the citations.
If I had valid criticisms of your sources, I would have provided them.

Not only are they a thing, they are my by and far largest fetish

The real privilege now days is "victim privilege" just gain everyone's sympathy and you have more power than most. Unless you are white and not a faggot.

>Start thread on Reverse-Traps
>Somehow becomes an argument about Transgender individuals

I've had the Reverse-Trap fetish ever since "Mulan".

Yeah, intersectionality is todays version of divide and conquer.

No, the other user corroborated my point. Because, you know, I posted first.

Cause and effect, arrow of time, and all that.

That nih study is from 2013. Is that really that outdated?

Additional thought to the people arguing dysphoria isn't exhibited in a lot of trans people; I never said it was. Seems an odd tangent to go down.
Indeed if the only recognized mental health issues directly associated with being trans is dysphoria (I don't know of any others) then wouldn't you be arguing that 80% of trans people do not have a mental health issue in their identity?

I was talking about the DSM, which makes up half of the source.
The source that was originally said to be a specific study.
The source that had to be made up of two different figures from two different bodies, because no such study existed.

Am I the only one who's seeing a problem with this use of sourcing?

Your point seemed to be "lesbians aren't socially acceptable" though and the other user said "only in a minority of western families". You then provided a small handful of lesbians who were discriminated against, basically giving credit to the "Only in a minority of western families".

Yep, I suspected you were mixing me up with another user. Makes sense now.

Oh well if I made a mistake, that's on me.
Did I mix up the progression of arguments?

Makes sense to me
gay men want to fuck a man and say its straight
straight men don't want to fuck a woman and say its gay

Don't worry about it, in fact, I may have to retract my snark - having read backwards, I had YOU mixed up with another user at some point. I think you're in order now (and probably always were!). I posted , and I stand by my added comment that parents that don't accept you the way you are, if the disown you, it's probably good riddance to bad rubbish.

Technically though the Reverse-Trap is a woman, the Trap is not.

Im not trans or anything, but I used to cross dress a bit a few years ago.
Usually very boyish rather then manly.
At the time I was into some pretty freaky masturbation I guess though, cross dressing and autoerotic asphyxiation.

These don't really seem to be particularly predominant in most women, but I think that just has to do with what women generally fetishize. Most women who are freaky seem to be attracted to submissive acts and being a sub etc.
I think that if you already have someone whos kinky and likes freaky sex or even bdsm and shitn, and you wanted a girl to cross-dress, your best bet might be to slowly and sneakily incorporate it into the bedroom. Or you could just ask, its pretty fun when you try it and maybe the idea just didn't cross her mind.

Be careful though, becuase she might take it personally and think your gay or just not attractive enough. Idk, bitches are sensitive about that shit.

Oh well we agree on that.
I grew up with parents that told me "as long as your relationship is healthy and you treat each other right, we don't care what gender they are".
I've seen so many examples of people growing up in repressive environments, who turned out to do exactly what their parents told them not to.

Sources in the NIH study aside from DSM-IV relating to prevalence of GID:

Zucker K, Lawrence A. Epidemiology of gender identity disorder: recommendations for the Standards of Care of the World Professional Association for Transgender Health. Int J Transgenderism. 2009;11(1):8–18.

De Cuypere G, Van Hemelrijck M, Michel A, Carael B, Heylens G, Rubens R, Hoebeke P, Monstrey S
Eur Psychiatry. 2007 Apr; 22(3):137-41.

Bakker A, van Kesteren PJ, Gooren LJ, Bezemer PD
Acta Psychiatr Scand. 1993 Apr; 87(4):237-8.

It undermines the statement of 1-30000 reported by the DSM in the very next sentence of the abstract. It recognizes that the DSM is not an authority on it, and provides alternative sources with much much higher reported ratios. But even if we assume that the actual rates of dysphoria are DOUBLE what the most optimistic reports cite (being 1:11000 which would be 0.009% of all people), that's still only 0.018% of people having clinically provable Gender Dysphoria, compared to reports of 0.6% of people claiming to have it, or at least identifying as transgender.

That's more than 50x greater than our doubled clinically documented cases. Surely that says that most people are bullshitting.

Some user said "negatrap" - I think I like that better. Rolls off the tongue nicely.

Perhaps "trapess" or "trapette"?

Well the whole idea of "trap" is

>You're a guy
>Meet cutie 3.14
>Take her home to your place
>Put the moves on her
>Time to put part A into slot B
>OH GOD IT'S A DICK

You don't really have that whole "MISTAKES HAVE BEEN MADE" moment if you take a guy home and it turns out to be a lady. So trap doesn't really seem appropriate.

You conflate provable with proven, and without the study that was initially cited you're making causation out of correlation. A study is the thing you are missing here, and as I said before your correlation is made even weaker by your grabbing figures from different sources and removing them from their original context; context that I'm sure you understand is necessary for their assumed validity.
Also see , though the 80% figure comes from the (as of yet unsourced, I add again) claim that only 20% of trans people experience dysphoria

Negatrap does seem to capture the whole "reverse" concept better.

Trapette might work too.

Unless you're a 100% gay man. I'd imagine you'd freak out just as much as a straight guy would upon finding bollocks on his latest pull.

It still counts as a Trap because she totally looks like a male (albeit an unusually good-looking one).

Also regarding the debate as to whether this study is in date;
tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/gids-referrals-increase-slows-201617/
This looks at the rise between 2016-2018 and 2017-2018 in referrals for gender therapy. For both years, there has been a massive spike in the numbers of referrals. I'm looking for more evidence for the years between 2013-2016, but it's fair to say that if these years saw over 100% rises in referrals (as is hinted at in the above link) then 2013-present day is a very long time when looking at gender issues. In 2013 the understanding was very different.

or unusually ugly one if thats how your wired

Correction, the link shows dates from 2015-2016 and 2016-2017. I'd be interested to see the figures for 2017-2018, as well as 2013-2015 if anyone knows a source.