New Universal Basic Income thread

New Universal Basic Income thread.

Summary of argument for so far:

1. Scrap welfare, use the money previously spent on welfare and the bureaucracy of the system to fund UBI

2. UBI pays out a breadline amount to each citizen, not enough to live off, but enough to provide sustenance and shelter

3. Citizens find work to earn money to provide a quality of life above the breadline, UBI provides a safety net for those who cannot find work, want to pursue further education, need to leave a job due to exploitation or incapacity, or who wish to utilise skills to earn money from self employment, invention or creative arts without risking destitution should the project fail. This unconditional safety net will fuel creation and invention for those who would not otherwise have the time to do so due to needing to work.

4. More citizens feel more financially secure and are therefore more likely to pay money into the economy on things people on the breadline would normally avoid to save money

OR...or...cut welfare and stop there.

Loom at the ghetto an welfare and multiply that times 5 and yeah. Yes we fuck off but your not getting any money is a private event and your not tall enough

Not an option, many people die.

You may not care but on the whole society will deem this a bad thing.

>Be me
>get $5000 in basic income
>have job earn additional $3000 from 40h workweek job
>guberment has to pay for everyones basic income
>takes $2000 from my job in taxes
>why am I fucking working

wat

Cut all welfare, food stamps and housing.

Shelters with 7 PM curfews and mandatory labor until able to get education or a better job, only.

They can walk to Mexico or Canada then.

Your country's tax rate is 66.7%?

Revolt more likely

Good, fight it out and get rid of the dregs.

And you'd be happy living like that?

Try saying that when your home/business is looted

I would never have to, not a piece of shit.

No, he'd get a fucking job.
It's more than you deserve leech.

It was just an (exaggerated) example.

To afford a basic livable income for every citizen above 18, the tax rate has to be fucking high.

Up until you lose your job to redundancy/AI/illness

>gibsmedat or I keel you!

Yeah, but mostly nig nogs. So plus/plus if you ask me.

How many times must socialists watch socialism fail before they realize socialism is a failure?

I've come to realize recently that you have to be completely literal with people, I don't know why but they don't seem to understand exaggerations, metaphors or any other expressions. It's fucking irritating.

are we really discussing this? fuck socialism, fuck communism, fuck entitlement

No it doesn't

Projected UBI cost is equivalent to or less than the cost of current welfare system

"The UBI is to be financed by getting rid of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, Supplemental Security Income, housing subsidies, welfare for single women and every other kind of welfare and social-services program, as well as agricultural subsidies and corporate welfare. As of 2014, the annual cost of a UBI would have been about $200 billion cheaper than the current system. By 2020, it would be nearly a trillion dollars cheaper." - Charles Murray

/thread

sure kid

...

Then you get another job. Ez mode.

>implying this system was tried on a national scale and failed

>tax rate goes up
>people incentivized to earn/work less, if at all
>production goes down
>necessities go up in price from demand.
>eventually can't afford basic foods and toilet paper with basic income
>more demands for free shit
>repeat
>everything goes to shit

And how do you think this shit is going to fucking work? huehue.

A ton of people who actually work for a basic living income because they lack the skills or motivation for higher paying jobs are just going to sit back and do jack shit now and enjoy their free money. Your taxes from these people fucking vanish into thin air.

>More citizens feel more financially secure

yeah... I don't feel like paying for someone to feel more financially secure.

>True Communism™ has never been tried before!

Who the fuck said 5000 dollars retard? The estimates are 10 times less than that fuck off if you can't even coherently provide a point

UBI will work in Europe but you US cunts will just get angry other races get help too. Seriously your racism situation and harsh bipartisanship will fuck up anything positive as one half of your society actively wants the other half to suffer and die just for not being them.

The US is doomed to fail.

So basically you are saying it is cheaper or equivalent cost to take it away from some people who are on welfare now and then give it to everyone? No wonder everyone was starving in Russia.

You can't enjoy UBI, it literally only covers housing and food, maybe clothes

This

>Your country's tax rate is 66.7%?

Well, if we're now handing out cash to millions of people, it will have to be at least that much. If not more

Get a load of this guy I bet you refine your own oil too huh? You don't need anybody

>Medicare

Wait, what? We're going to cut what is basically socialized medicine for the elderly? No, man. That's a whole other can of worms you're fucking with.

To make an extra $2,000. Are you retarded?

This has nothing to do with Communism

This.
You obviously understand economics and how welfare hurts the poor.

See

No it doesn't we waste enough food to feed everyone

OK. So this idea is to take away all forms of low income medical care (social security, medicare, medicaid), give everyone a UBI in direct funds, and then expect them to be responsible to pay for medical services when they later want/need them?
Question: exactly what type of moron are you? Or what type of idiots do you think we are? Socialism is a lie; you're trying to sell a lie. Most of us just are that dumb.

Then run for office and promise to scrap taxes entirely

Look at the retard children

>Free money that "only" covers housing, food and clothes
>You can't enjoy UBI
>literally 70% of the population would enjoy that

Honestly, why are you supporting something where people get handed things before ANY work is rendered?

What makes capitalism the most successful system ever is that in order to make money you must perform a service someone else wants. It causes the system to continue to push forward even if there are roadblocks in the way.

It is immoral and breeds people to think they deserve things for nothing to do handouts like a UBI. You're inherently stealing money from one person and giving it to someone else. You teach people to actually be greedy, that "I exist therefore you have to give me things".

Gtfo pinko

>receive UBI
>dropped out of school because I'm good living off free gibmedats
>find out if i get my girl pregnant then we get more money
>get an extra $1,500 a month for each kid
>have 8 kids
>my friends also dropped out of school and have 8 kids
>i hope all you working taxpayers never stop making money for me

Lol Basic income is basically nigger-tier welfare for everyone, applicable when everybody's in poverty in the coming communist utopia.

The only kicker is, if you aren't a good little serf, there won't be any jobs post-automation because robots will have phased them out, and if you get cut off, you starve to death.

A bad idea to anyone with an IQ over room temperature.

...

Once you get done bailing out Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal because they are living the life that is being suggested because no one works, we can talk about this apparent deeply embedded racism that only exists to the people who don't want to work here

See

Babies first communism!
>no guys! We'll just redistribute the money first, just to see how that goes.

You are literally talking about breadlines. Who the fuck do you think you are fooling?

Where the fuck will you get the job? Basic income is an idea that will apply after automation of virtually every job.

And it'll be like $500 a month, not $5000. You are dreaming dude.

I'm not black so no skin in the game but you're wrong. Much more poor trailer trash whites receiving welfare in middle America. They receive the BULK if the welfare in this country.

>10 times less then 5000
So $500 a year, that would last a week or two, and you're saying he can't make a coherent point.

UBI is not enough to live off, only to not starve

UBI isn't paid to children

Try again

Wow why can't you retard grasp the concept of not enough to live on? You really think you can live on 400 a month? You better be living in tent in the woods

This

The other thing that's funny about UBI is the number of people who are so out of touch with what basic living actually means. Most of the "poor" people I know drink dunkin donuts or starbucks every day, buy scratch tickets or gamble pretty often, and every one has a smartphone and a decent TV

No. That's his fucking point. You aren't supposed to be content with that

Dude think about it. UBI applies AFTER robots have automated all jobs. Are you comfortable making $500 cashless income per month, while there are NO jobs available, all your transactions are tracked, and there is literally no way to make a fucking cent extra to enjoy? It's basically welfare for everyone.

>3000 - 2000 = 2000

are you fucking retarded? Maybe big shaqq can teach you some "quick mafs" while you read up on socialism you fucking imbecile.

People who wanted to work would still work. You realize how unbelievably soul crushing it is to sit around and do nothing? Keep it so only the first kid gets a free pass and they won't be able to have kids to keep them busy. Human being need to do something or they go insane

If true communism, socialism, etc, has never truly been tried, what is the difference between this true socialism/communism and the Venezuela form?

Fuck off you communist

Wrong. UBI will not apply until after androids take most jobs. It has been stated repeatedly over and over. Where the fuck will you get extra money to supplement your UBI? You will literally be stuck in an eternal welfare hole.

I guess you are that stupid, that's the whole point of this, there won't be enough jobs, why would a company hire people when they can buy a robot just once and save

Or I can enjoy the fruits of the free market because I'm not a lazy sack of shit

Then how will i feed my children? They need an opportunity to live comfortably too. Are you gonna take that away from then?

You keep making posts like that but the one you want people to see doesn't answer the question they asked.

Fuck off we dont want them either

Then move to a deserted island, if you are part of a country it's about working together

Race is not part of the discussion... piss off you piece of shit.

OK Im actually sold on this.

total welfare USA: $668,000,000,000
total poor USA: 45,000,000
each poor person receive per month: $1,237.04

I'm down with that.

NOTHING MORE
NO HEALTH CARE
NO FOOD
NO SUBSIDIES FOR ELECTRICITY/HVAC
NO HOUSING SUBSIDIES

I guarantee you that they will cry that isn't enough in 2 years TOPS.

This.
Also pretty much all old people get involuntarily put on this.

>Then run for office and promise to scrap taxes entirely

I got Trump.
And Trump is enough.

this problem was solved thousands of years ago.

>"do unto others as you would have them do onto you"
>"if a man does not work, he shall not eat"

but people both capable and willing to help their own families let alone their neighbors seems to be in as short supply as people who don't foolishly squander their money these days.

You still get UBI you fucking mongoloid. You get $5,000 in ubi and $2,000 from work. Most of us would anyways but you'd be too fucking stupid.

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's cheaper because there is no bureaucracy and no need to police the system because it is impossible to cheat

Fag never said a year so go back to your trap thread

But then the people who don't work are going to get butthurt because the people who do work have more than them, then the government will step in and make it fair again.

This is the point most people are not realizing.

UBI is like being on welfare and NEVER BEING ABLE TO GET OUT.

BECAUSE THERE'S NO JOBS. ROBOTS WILL DO EVERYTHING FROM VENDING SODA TO BEING DOCTORS

Do you see how much the communist utopia will fucking suck yet?

Thing is, once we implement UBI, and yes sadly we have our compassionless short sighted retards too, Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal will be way better off.

What people forget is that UBI doesn't just benefit the poor; it enables the poor to spend money which will go directly into the profit margins of whatever company they'll spend on.

UBI money will lead to greater automatisation of former minimum-wage jobs, increasing productivity like crazy.

Again, as long as you are not personally opposed to seeing the poorest happier, UBI is the future.

It won't work while we still have a system of capitalism in place.

Basically, what would end up happening is the capitalist class would ruin it for everyone.
They would just raise prices on everything knowing the bottom few percentages can now participate in the economy, effectively adding more demand. More demand = higher prices.

It would have to come with controls on rent and food... which is dangerously close to controlled markets. Which have never been successful ever.

But don't get me wrong, I do believe this idea is part of the not so distant future.

its close to that between income, state, property, sales tax, healthcare premiums which are a tax as well

The OP hasn't established a system. He's just presented one portion of an idea, which leaves large gaps. Of course this implimented with 0 anything else wouldn't work.

The comprehensive suite includes the following:
>Basic income
>Free health care
>Free education
>Higher taxation on the wealthy
>Taxation based on total wealth as opposed to income
>Reduction of major loopholes in the tax code/an unavoidable "baseline" tax for the super-rich

This pretty much sews up any holes. You then have to have the necessary discussion of "who gets how much of what", which I personally set as:

>Basic Income
Each state must offer per-person funding equal to either the poverty line of their state or the national poverty line, whichever is higher. This funding would be re-evaluated yearly at tax season and reduced at about a 1:2 ratio to the money you pull in yourself.
>Free health care
Single-payer for the nation, maybe per-state rates.
>Free education
Up through your first Bachelors.
>Tax stuff
Basically, if you're in the lower 2/5ths of society, you don't get taxed on anything besides sales taxes. Period. The upper 3/5ths start with a baseline, unavoidable 10% tax on their wealth, maybe with a similar "wade-in" zone as the UBI so the shock isn't so bad. The super rich get taxed harder because nobody needs to gold-plate their second yacht and trickle-down's a fucking joke. I haven't done the extra math up here, but a flat 10% tax on wealth generates a SHITLOAD of money from the upper 3/5ths. Much more than we pull in now. Then you impose massive penalties for keeping wealth/businesses/etc off-shore.

I'm sick and exhausted but:
>tl;dr
UBI is just one piece of a puzzle.

The problem arises that due to how business operates, the money granted will be immediately exploited and become nullified as an actual income. Not to mention that poverty begets crime, and any housing affordable with universal income will be the worst ghetto ever seen.

The idea is total crap. Maybe when we are all pushed out of value by robotic AI it will be a novel idea to have rationing of living and foods, but the suicide rate will skyrocket as people become depressed and feel their lives are valueless.

The ambitious people will be the only ones to survive.

What? Then they aren't poor

>Most of the poor people I know drive proches hurrr

user stop lying. If you could you'd stay on your animu shitposting boards all day and we know it.

>$5000

Delusional. This would cost over 2 trillion a year in the USA alone.

It will be more like $300-$500 per month. We are talking permanent poverty amounts here, couples with robots taking all the jobs. Use your head. UBI is another communist shitscheme that looks good on paper, but will be an utter disaster in real life.

I always thought a government single payer healthcare system coupled with a monthly distributed UBI, with a higher capital gains tax and a progressive estate tax that kicks in only for greater than 50% lifetime average UBI income, with a bonus calculated using a tax revenue and a GDP based multiplier would work better, as it creates an incentive to make the country succeed that is a direct incentive, and a motivation to make an estate for your children (since by definition UBI income only recipients will have very small savings). There will always be chav welfare kings/queens living solely off the dole.

Robots already will take over most menial jobs. You think the rich care about the jobs the poor keep? Factory workers are fucked regardless, so let's at least keep them alive and housed. Homeless are more expensive than people with a menial income.

Why so triggered? Where did the bad man touch you?

>70% of the population would enjoy sitting on the floor in an empty room eating bread and literally nothing else

>UBI is just one piece of a puzzle

We'll that didn't last long.

We went from basic, suplimental income to full nanny in under 50 posts.

I swear, communism spreads faster than cancer.

In most places that would cover rent and utilities, personal insurances, and have a few hundred left over for groceries and luxuries.

UBI is p. fuckin' neato.

And after those two years, OP will be back with a post arguing for Welfare Programs.