There is no God

>there is no God
>there is no reason for why humans exist other than randomness and chaos
>all human morals were invented by religion
>with no more need for religion we have no need for morals
>with no morals we have no reason to have laws
>with no laws we can steal, kill, rape, etc. as much as we want
Discuss

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development
youtube.com/watch?v=TKG26qLgudQ
mises.org/library/human-action-0
docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/01331b_4f81b490e35a48c48b3b1412c1c09342.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

there is a God.
end of thread

Where is your evidence.

agreed with the exception of no laws or morals. We would have complete anarchy. If that is something you're a fan of you should be banned because you're most likely 15

morals weren't invented by religion.
you are 14 years old
end of thread

...

I'm 19.
1. modern media wants you to believe that there is no correct religion and no god, however they also want you to have strong morals. Why have morals and go out of my way to be nice to people and help people if no matter what happens, when I die I just cease to exist?
2. Morals were, in fact, invented by religion, just try to prove me wrong. I already know your first argument will be (or should be) Hammurabi's Code, which was one of the first written law codes that is still preserved today, and was also written without any religion, however there is a big difference, because this set of laws was put in place for the sole purpose of preventing anarchy and to prevent anyone from trying to overthrow the government, not to hold up any form of morals.

You don't have to believe in religion to have morals. And you certainly shouldn't have to be threatened with eternal hellfire to not act like a retarded fuckstick who ruins people's lives.

nah I just wanna show the example that without religion (Christianity especially), we would still be shouting "ooga booga" and living in caves while fighting each other over the berries we collect in the woods

yet another edgy faggot opposing any known reasonable truth out there and expecting applause "Look Mom I'm Edgy"

>>there is no God
wrong.
because the universe didn't build itself.

>>there is no reason for why humans exist other than randomness and chaos
wrong.
because the laws of physics were carefully crafted to have matter exist, life exist, human life exist.
randomness and chaos can't generate order, life, reason.

>>all human morals were invented by religion
wrong.
natural laws exist, as long as you're a human and not a beast.
religions went farther introducing extra morals, and sometimes just got it right.

>>with no more need for religion we have no need for morals
wrong.
we would be worse than beasts destroying themselves.

>>with no morals we have no reason to have laws
wrong.
only mad beasts want no laws.

>>with no laws we can steal, kill, rape, etc. as much as we want
wrong.
you think you'll be the nigger stealing, killing and raping as much as you want.
you will actually be the nigger burglarized, sodomized and killed as much as other niggers want.

pic related: yourself

you must be a levayan satanist.

there is no god, you are a faggot.

there is no god, go die.

morals arent real you are a faggot.

you are fat and bald and your opinion does not matter.

sure you don't HAVE to have religion to have morals, but if I can steal from someone and get away with it, or date rape some bitch I've never met at a party i'm at that nobody knows me or can identify me and I can get away with it, why shouldn't I? What's stopping me? When I die there's no consequence, the only thing keeping me from doing any of these things is the risk of getting put in prison.

presenting no real argument and resorting to name calling

> I'm 19
lmao
> Harambe's cube
?

1. Almost every modern scientist disagrees with you, that the universe DID in fact come into being from a random event (the Big Bang)
2. laws are not morals, laws were put in place to keep order, mostly to the benefit of the government/person in power. I'm not saying laws are bad, I'm just saying that if you do not have a moral obligation to follow them, then you should break them whenever it benefits you and you can get away with it
3. In a way, yes, I am "trolling," but really I just wanted to start conversation about this shit because I've been thinking a lot about it lately

OP here, that's not me, just wanted to clarify that I'm trying to have a meaningful discussion

You have to be over 18 to be on this website.

nigga I am

Guys dont worry im here to relieve you all. You're all god, BAM you're all saved

>there is no god
depends on ur definition of god
how can u explain consciousness without some kind of god?
>when I die I just cease to exist?
all consciousness comes from one source, in any way that you look at it, you will be 'reborn' as a different conscious being. that means you will live the life of everyone you see around you.
>Morals were, in fact, invented by religion
eh, no, not really. morals were created from philosophy, specifically aesthetics.

consider this
if you accept the premise that you will eventually live the life of everyone around you
and if you believe in some form of the concept of 'good', it doenst need to be defined
then it would make sense that you should only do good to yourself and to others

thats where morals come from

This has a negative effect on the simulations outcome

OP you still here?
i want your thoughts on this.

Reincarnation comes from religion, thats where certain morals come from, try harder

Better to write “there are no gods”. Never miss an opportunity to remind religiotards that their favourite god is just one of the thousands which have been fabricated.

morals are a survival tactic you fucking idiot

>all human morals were invented by religion
Proof?

i hope u arent OP because if you are ive lost all hope in this thread and will be leaving promptly. on the off chance you are just a dumb nigger ill explain now.

'reincarnation' doesnt come from religion, thats completely baseless. if you consider the origin of consciousness, there are a couple of ways to theorize on this.
1. consciousness comes from a source outside the material world, like an 'alternate dimension' or similar to radiowaves
2. consciousness is innate within all matter and the relations of said matter
those are the main 2 general ideas, the first one perhaps being the more 'spiritual' one, and the latter being more materialist/scientific
if you have another theory lets hear it and we can work from there

/thread

Society couldn't exist if every single one of us went around fucking over each other.

Yeah I'm here. I don't really understand what you mean too well, but in history, the only sense of "good" has been given to society by the people in power, Whether that be Laws from the government or Morals from religion. They are all meant to put you in your place like the piece of trash you are, while the people at the top continue to do whatever they want. Kings have always taken as many wives as they wanted, killed whoever they wanted, etc. Rich people today also do the same things, though that usually doesn't include killing people.

There is no cuz bullshit

>this set of laws was put in place for the sole purpose of preventing anarchy and to prevent anyone from trying to overthrow the government
And what separates this from modern day morals other than complexity?

OP here, and no the reincarnation thing wasn't me

That's kind of my point. In my original statements I say that without morals there is no need to obey the law, the only purpose of the law is for leaders to keep their leadership position. Some people also argue, although I do not completely agree, that morals were created by religion so that religious leaders could gain political power by controlling people

Your research is incomplete, there may be a substantial number of scientists who label themselves atheist, but the majority are agnostic and a sizeable number assert that the only plausible explanation for the big bang, the existence of our physical reality is that there is a force setting it in motion, supernatural and intelligent in nature.

Nothing is random, stop trying to justify your degeneracy, millions of years of progress gave us our standards of behaviour, it is what sets us apart from the animals, we still have to make more progress.

All the complicated organisms on earth that are in perfect balance.
All just randomly occured through an explosion
>ok

>xd normies no morals i can do whatever i want. checkmate christians *commits crime*
>*jailed*

Yeah I get it, and I mostly agree with you, my point in saying that in my original statements is that this is what we (at least Americans) are taught in school, that everything has come about by complete randomness and chaos

>the universe didn't build itself.
orly?
So you were there were you?

>the laws of physics were carefully crafted to have matter exist, life exist, human life exist.
It may seem that way, but we have no idea how many forms life can take, it could very well be the the majority of universe configurations can support some form of life that can become intelligent.

>natural laws exist, as long as you're a human and not a beast.
are you saying natural laws don't exist for beasts?
Here's a natural law, something that dies cannot pass on it's genes, the result of this is that almost all life will try to avoid death.
For a social species, they can take their common interest in not dying and from it come to the conclusion that they do not like killing either.

>you think you'll be the nigger stealing, killing and raping as much as you want.
>you will actually be the nigger burglarized, sodomized and killed as much as other niggers want.
Which is exactly the reason that morals and laws exist, religion has no irreplaceable part in either creating or maintaining them.

this actually made me laugh harder than I should have
obviously I'm not going to just go and kill someone cause fuck it
Honestly to sum everything I've been saying up into one conclusion: Whether you agree with me or not, I'm sure you've done plenty of bad shit that you knew was "wrong" or may have even been "illegal" because you knew there wouldn't be any major consequences, and while maybe you didn't think about deeply on a philosophical level, the conclusion you came to when you did those things is the same conclusion my original argument produces.

>how can u explain consciousness without some kind of god?
Lots of ways currently, we just don't know which one of them is right, if any of the proposed solutions are.

The creator was present in the past.
He isn't some fantasy just because you can't see or detect him. Take a look at his beautiful, self sustainable creation, the perfect design, there's evidence enough for you.

My point?
pic related

cheked and keked

Nah

I see what you are saying, but i think you are confusing 'morals' or a 'sense of good' with laws. Sure, a great number of people subscribe to the 'law' as their moral compass, but these are people with highly underdeveloped morals, see this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development
to sum it up for our purposes, it basically goes like this:
morals are
stage 1. what gets you punished or not
stage 2. what is the net benefit to myself
stage 3. do other people approve
stage 4. does the law (or religion) approve
stage 5. does the general public want it
stage 6. what will benefit myself, other people, and humanity the most
alot of people are stuck on stage 4, but that is not where the real art and philosophy of morals comes into play.

Read Camus

im glad it at least made you laugh, no hard feelings for real though
i appreciate that you've put a lot of thought into this tbh

Laws are morals that are imposed upon you by others, morals are simply rules you place on yourself, they are usually passed down from your parents at first, but when you grow up you have to decide which to keep and which to discard.
The first morals were likely just agreements made between tribe members to prevent internal conflict, and over time grew to encompass more and more of our behavior.

there is no knowing and you are an arrogant little monkey if you claim to understand the origins, structure, and meaning of life and the universe. humans are just observers of this particular reality and morals serve only to continue our existence, lest we kill ourselves off before the universe has a chance to do it.
so learn what you can. share stories with others, and count yourself lucky for the opportunity to view and appreciate some tiny little bit of an otherwise empty and unobserved universe.

The morals we have been attributing to assorted gods throughout history have actually been coming from us the whole time. Most of them will never change.

I thought like that until all the shit I did built up and came crashing down on me. I was able to recover thanks to daddy being a rich professor, anything else and I would have been dead while all the moralfags lived good lives well into their 90’s

whether or not there is religion or concepts of god, living things generally want to live with little hassle. survival as well as progress lies in harmony, that is why there are the concepts of morals and laws. everyone could steal, rape and kill all they want, but most people arent 12 year old faggots sitting in their rooms with no idea of what they're talking about.

>Lots of ways currently
care to provide a few examples? although i have a feeling i shouldnt have used the word 'god'
i mean something more like a universal source or a monad

to add onto this, just because 'the law' is a shitty source of morality doesnt mean you should just drop back down to stage 2 or 1 and act like a child. and i think youll find alot of old religions (not pozzed up nu-christianity or whatever) have pretty good morals, just keep in mind alot of the ancient books are highly metaphorical and nowhere near as literal as you would think

I fully agree with you and I think that both morals and laws are extremely necessary to society, and I also believe that if everyone were on stage 6, we would have utopia and it would solve literally everything from world hunger, to poverty, to illness and disease, etc. (also a side note this is essentially what marxism hopes to achieve, is that they try to force everyone into stage 6, I would expand further what I mean but that's a topic for a whole different thread and day)

However, because not everyone, in fact very few people, are on stage 6, if I can avoid getting punished, then why should I care about stages 2-6? If other people are lying, stealing, cheating, etc. to get what they want, then why shouldn't I?

Getting put in prision and wasting your one and only life being confined in a dangerous place without access to life’s finer pleasures sound like seems like more than enough for me.

haha thanks dog

Yeah I'm sure you're right, I mean whatever primitive form of laws came about, they probably came about as a way to survive, however humans gained creativity, whether it was designed by a god or intelligent being, or randomly created by evolution in our brains, our creativity is what allowed us to realize that maybe working together to gather food, build shelter, gather water, etc. might be easier than working alone, and in order to best work together, there needs to be a set of laws and boundaries.

Yeah some people end up finding that screwing people over your whole life can end you up in really shitty situations, but what about the typical sociopathic millionaires that have done whatever it takes to make more money their entire lives and they end up extremely wealthy. Of course, maybe they aren't actually happy, but that's another discussion for another day

this is exactly why I think a strong majority of people don't do bad things. I think most people are "good" because they fear the consequences of being "bad."

>>all human morals were invented by religion
Which was, in turn, invented by people.
Nornality is a majority concept. Morality is not being ashamed of your life.

The idea that the material world is a product of randomness and chaos is a naive understanding of a problem we can't currently solve.

It is easy to assert that which we cannot explain is merely randomness and chaos because it helps to legitimise what our current best hypothesis are concerning all things.

The randomness and chaos argument is circular logic, if the universe was created by the big bang, what caused the big bang? we don't know, but the best guess is that existence itself is manifested from higher powers, which we have no hope to fathom in our lifetime, consider that the asserting that we are, because we are, explains nothing.

do you see what I mean?

>then why should I care about stages 2-6?
this goes back into the consciousness thing. given that you could eventually live the lives of everyone around you, doing right by yourself means doing right by others as well.
essentially it comes down to this
>figuring out what is the best way for you to live and how to live that way (without negatively influencing others)
>figuring out how to help and support others to achieve this for themselves
these are highly simplified steps in an incredibly complex issue, but it serves as a basic way to illustrate what i mean
it seems that what you are getting at only describes the first step (without the brackets), and that would indeed be logical if you never had to endure the lives of other people, but the way i see it, you will have to.
its a coin flip though, im not 100% sure, and i dont believe its possible to be.
and for me, i see 'only positively influencing others' as part of the best way to live anyway

Yeah I understand, and agree with you. But again, with no definite answer, why should I care? Maybe whatever higher power created humans cares deeply about what I do and if I'm a bad person I am punished, and maybe they don't give a fuck and just watch what happens.

>all human morals were invented by religion
this is where you done fucked up morality and religion are independent value systems they just have a lot of overlap.

Yeah I agree with you, but there's still no certainty. 1. There are plenty of people who do good things their entire life and help others their entire life and nothing ever comes from it
2. There are plenty of people who do good things their entire life and are greatly blessed and the people they help return later to help them back and they live very prosperous lives
3. There are plenty of people who do shit things their entire lives and it all blows up in their faces and they live miserable lives
4. There are plenty of people who do shit things their entire lives and screw people over for their own benefit and end up millionaires

Jesus christ that almost quints
Keep reading the thread I explain what I mean in greater detail later

I can't be bothered really, I have to leave in like 3 minutes for work. I just assumed you've never approached philosophical or moral ontology in any capacity based on the OP post

not the same guy but
>Maybe whatever higher power created humans cares deeply about what I do and if I'm a bad person I am punished
you are thinking of 'higher power' as some caricature of a deity, you have to think about it more in terms of metaphysics. ie what is outside the universe? would the universe still exist even if it was never observed?

Well, it could be some kind of feedback loop in the brain, simply a result of having enough processing power, Hell, it could even be the result of some kind of soul, although that wouldn't be anywhere near as clear of an explanation as many think it is.
I mean, if souls exist, they must operate by some laws, after all our thoughts are far too structured for it to simply be random.
Basically all you are doing is offloading the question of what consciousness is from the brain to this soul, and if it is difficult imagining consciousness coming from natural processes offloading it onto a soul doesn't solve that problem, souls, if they exist, would likely not follow the same rules as matter, but if they exist they have to follow some rules, I think that if souls were found to exist and then science began to understand how they worked people would be proposing some kind of super soul to avoid the conclusion that they are fleshy, or ethereal, computers.

I have no clue what you are talking about here but im highly certain that you have misunderstood what i have said.
read my post again from a different angle, because honestly i cant reply to you now while still being constructive.

These arguments are mutually exclusive, while you are correct that some of our moral and legal systems stem from organised religion, if you think carefully about the morales and rules in religion, it is a much rougher fit than if it were purely based from them.

eg. taking the lords name in vain, is a sin, but it isn't against the law, and the vast number of people do it constantly

or

slavery is warranted in abrahmic religions, talked about extensively in both testaments and the quran, yet we diverged from that behaviour because of our morale progression.

Living a good decent life is not about what happens when you die, by that point it is already all over. I am saying that your duty to yourself and others is to be decent. for one because we won't let you get away with murder, rape etc and it would detriment yourself, but also because living to leave the world in a better place than you found it is healthy, and will make you happier in the long run.

We know this because all human civilisation has proved ti so far, evil exists, and some people are very happy to get away with it, but they aren't healthy, and the vast majority of people who cause misery, are or will end up, miserable themselves.

Freedom is important, as long as it does not detriment the freedom of others, that is why we also need order.

>if it is difficult imagining consciousness coming from natural processes offloading it onto a soul doesn't solve that problem
thats why we now offload it to the metaphysical 'god' or pre-universal being. in this way, consciousness comes before the material universe, as it is the 'monad' which was before everything else

Go home Nick

Yes, but if god exists, he must also follow some kind of laws, otherwise he would simply be nonsense.
But, at least according to some religions, god does not follow any laws, he is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.
The very idea of a god like this is nonsensical, he is a paradox, and paradoxes do not exist in reality.

>if god exists, he must also follow some kind of laws
why?

the whole point of the original post was to trigger people into starting a discussion

yeah but this isn't really a discussion about how the universe was created. I don't really care about how the universe was created unless it results in the fact that I need to do something.

what I mean is that there's no certainty that having any sort of morals benefits me or anyone else. Sorry i'm getting kind of tired, it's 7 am and I haven't gone to bed yet (although I don't have to get up until 12:30 so it's ok)

I agree with you overall, but what if I can swipe a dude's wallet without him knowing and get a couple hundred bucks out of it? How much does society really hurt?
>the vast majority of people who cause misery, are or will end up, miserable themselves.
I would say most people in general, whether they do good or bad, end up fairly miserable anyways, but that's just my cynical viewpoint

Get out of my mind

Swiping another mans wallet will make you feel guilty unless you are a sociopath. Even if we assume that you are, anything you buy with that money is tainted, you didn't earn it, it's not rightfully yours. You can never feel the satisfaction of being proud of the effort it took.

If you go buy ice cream, it won't taste any less good, but you should feel shame, and that is what my point is, that you cannot beat the sweat of your own brow, providing for yourself like a real man.

We could go through many examples, but maybe this is where we agree to disagree as it is a matter of opinion, but I would find it unlikely that you don't agree with my root point here.

I have to go to work now, thanks for a good chat, gg bros

Morals were born pretty much when man was, being as that's the only reason we're all here.
The social construct that we call laws or morals was born of a survival instinct on a species wide level for homo sapiens, which is why we killed off other branches of humanity by banding together and valuing our own species over theirs, moreover actively ending the competition to ensure the survival and expansion of our own.

Tl;dr: higher brain function + social groups/constructs = morals/laws.. because survival n shit

>what I mean is that there's no certainty that having any sort of morals benefits me or anyone else
do you even know what you are saying? see this definition:
morals are 'figuring out what is the best way for you to live and how to live that way'
if you dont put time into figuring that stuff out you wont be able to live the best life possible. its obvious really

>yeah but this isn't really a discussion about how the universe was created
yes but obviously there is a premise based around that idea, dont disregard the idea simply because it doesnt immediately relate with the general debate

religion was invented by humans
therefore so were human morals
your point is retarded

My favorite part about these discussions is that the definition of God is never clearly defined making the whole argument worthless.

God is real but what god is is probably much different than normies discuss

read a book and consider philosophical naturalism

OP here, this will be my final reply then I'm gonna fuck off to bed. You don't need to be a sociopath to not feel guilty for stealing from someone. There are plenty of ways I could justify petty crimes like that. Maybe I need the money more than he does. Maybe what I need to buy is more important than what he needs to buy, etc. People always find ways to justify doing wrong, which is why they continue to do it. If I cheat on a test, will I feel as accomplished as I would if I got an A on my own? No probably not, but If i need an A to pass the class and get a job, then I'm just going to do it because it's what I need to do.

Anyways, good night Sup Forums, thanks for the chat, was a good thread and I half expected nobody to reply.

The most basic scientific principle is that nothing is impossible, just varying levels of probbable. Accepting that if there were a being that birthed the infinite cosmos might be hard to fathom is the most scientific approach.

The closest thing to a God is probably the Universe and it's mysteries.

The reason you exist is beacuse your parents, the reason your parents exist is your grandparents and so on. The reason animals exist is because of our planet and the reason our planet exist is because of the universe. Find your on reason to live in this world.

I'm sure religion helped shaped morals and I'm just as sure that religion was shaped by people. In other words people made the morals we have today, not religion. Even animals have morals. Follow them if you want or perhaps suffer the consequences if you don't, up to you.

everyone is bisexual

But we do steal,kill, rape and murder all we want?
I don't see your point.

>all morals were invented by religion

Nope. Morals come about as a natural law due to human empathy. For example, we all agree that violence is bad as it causes suffering (well most of us) we know that it does that because when you see the victim you see the pain they are in. Through communication we have learned that its a mutual feeling this we condemn out as a species.

Youre also wrpng about religion. Religion keeps the status quo, gives people hope and an explanation to people for whom the natural way of the world (basically the butterfly effect) and death are too complex to understand.

Killing and raping etc are wrong because the advancement of the species is halted greatly. Think about it like this. The most intelligent people that could otherwise have helped human advancement (like the da vincis and einsteins) would never have gotten anywhere if everyone just killed each other. Basically meat heads, psychopaths and sociopaths would rule the world. Eventually we'd just die off as a species.

These are all evolutionary by-products that ensure the continuation and advancement of our species.

The first 2 points are unknowable (can't be proven or disproven)

The remaining are just false

/thread

But we don't have morals what are you talking about? We have laws that don't make sense too..

We have morals because of evolution, not religion.

Lots of animals live in groups and manage to not kill-on-sight. Is that because they are more religious than crocodiles?

youtube.com/watch?v=TKG26qLgudQ

Life in the community makes for easier survival. Evolution has made us wanting for acceptance in the community.
A community works best with a set of rules. Call them what you want, it is in your interest to be seen to be playing by them.

There also is no free will btw.

Morals are not a religious invention, it's coded into species by genetics to prevent them exterminating their own.
It is true however that nowadays most religions are morality-based, but that wasn't like that always. For example, Christianity was in fact a feudalist power that influenced individuals by a moral code itself, but with an older version that couldn't stand on its own legs anymore. It promoted fear and ultimate destruction, while also implied law and a sort of well being for their followers.

Furthermore, god's existance doesn't matter in the long run. It is a question or theory that might never get answered, but it doesn't have to be. See, god was interpreted by the religions to give humanity a goal. Most of the times these goals served the religion itself.
Now that humanity is escaping religion slowly, we are advancing in terms of technology and developing a greater understanding of our environment and universe. And since we are conscious independent beings, we can decide our next goal(s).
And who knows, maybe if we do find god sometime, it would mean that we became gods ourselves, since we got the level of that being.

>all human morals were invented by religio

THIS is your weak spot
Communities require a code of behavior for survival and organization. Without it, the community falls apart.

you may say But Communism... but implicit in that is a mutual moral code.

Now much of the sex is bad morality won't be there, cuz Puritans is religious.

But there will be natual morality limiting how much you can steal, how much harm can be overlooked, whether rape is a thing, and in what case, etc....

Athiesm doesn't mean everybody gets to be a sociopath.

god is everything because there would be nothing else otherwise

but this idea can be refined to desirability
what connotates such, and elevates one idea, action, or decision over another.

a great book on this is Human Action by Ludwig Von Mises in which human behaviour and decisions is essentially delineated and shown from axioms as to why all human behaviour is anarchistic/capitalist in nature, and we just apply words like socialist/fascist/government to partial restrictions on this nature.

mises.org/library/human-action-0

another great read is docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/01331b_4f81b490e35a48c48b3b1412c1c09342.pdf

there isn't a god persay, but there is logic and a general human agreeance on progression.

Laveyan satanists do not advocate anarchy and chaos.
Yes, we strongly believe in nourishment of the self by somewhat selfish deeds, but not at the cost of the innocent other.
We do unto others as we would have done unto us, but only if those others are deserving of our good treatment.
No ttue satanist would go around raping, killing and pillaging because we believe in the sanctity of life

Oh my. It's retarded.

If the only thing that's keeping you from being a degenerate piece of human filth is the fact that you might go to prison, then you are a shitty person.
In no way do I believe in God or gratification after death for leading a life of morality, but as a rational person I realize that what I would not want done to me, as do others not want done to them, so I don't.

First 2 of your points are correct. Then you go apeshit crazy.

What makes us so extremely successful from an evolutionary point of view is how extremely cooperative we are. That cooperativeness is what enabled us to hunt much larger animals than ourselves and what now makes it possible that 2% of the population grow the food for the other 98%, and to build nuclear power plants and all the other shit that you see around you.

Humans have the moral codes engraved in their genes. 99% of them will never kill a person, not because they're told not to do it but because they don´t want to.

Morals were invented by religion? Here we go. Have you heard of Confucius and the Golden Rule? He lived centuries before the supposed Jesus Christ did.
www.iep.utm.edu/goldrule