Is Pastor Joel Osteen all right to listen to on radio and TV, or are there serious problems with his theology...

Is Pastor Joel Osteen all right to listen to on radio and TV, or are there serious problems with his theology? I'm interested in Christian perspectives on the man's ministry.

So you want to listen to gain perspective but won't bother if you don't agree with his theology. Fabulous logic.

He's a self-help novelist who happens to do his thing in a giant, tax-exempt stadium, little to none of what he says is actual Christian theology

I'm mainly asking, because I am already exposed to Osteen. In fact, my whole family, apart from myself, is obsessed with his ministry, listening every day to his radio or TV show. I am skeptical of Osteen, as he does not appear to deliver the full Gospel, and his theology does not come across as sound. He sounds good and appealing, if anything, but he seems to believe that we should always assume that God will help us prosper on this Earth, and that makes no sense to me, as plenty of Christians worldwide have uncomfortable lives, even suffering persecution, to the point of torture and death.

He is just a human being.

Im a non practicing catholic. And this pastor in my opinion is not enough to achieve true wisdom.

This, frankly. He tells people to feel good about themselves and liberally applies verses taken out of context to arrive at conclusions that are often scripturally dead wrong. He'd be fine as a motivational speaker if he didn't happen to pump in so much heresy.

Anyone preaching prosperity gospel should be dragged into the streets and shot.

I haven't heard any of his shit in a long time, but I just remember most of his teachings can be summed up into. "Well if something bad happened to you, it's not random, it's because you're a sinner. If you give me money only good things will happen." He's certainly a feel good preacher but to think he's not in it for the money is foolish.

Agreed. I'm not really christian anymore, but my dad has been a preacher for years. It's just kinda sicking to see him preform, especially since I've been around so many preachers who are really just nice people who might have different beliefs than me, but truly do make an effort to help their community without expecting money.

perform***

Osteen is garbage.

Joel Osteen's biggest selling point is his "friend of sinners" attitude. He really tries his hardest to make non-Christians not feel like trash, which I definitely appreciate. I think sometimes this gets lost in translation and people cry out that his theology is bad, when really he is just trying to be a nice guy. But most of everything he says he backs up in the Bible, even the prosperity gospel. The whole idea behind the prosperity gospel isn't so much that life is gonna be super great all the time because God gives you stuff. It's more like, "hey, look at these promises and stuff that is your spiritual birthright," many of which are outlined in Deuteronomy 28. He's pretty explicit that bad stuff happens as a result of man living in a world where sin exists, and frequently points out that even Jesus said sometimes life is gonna suck. Personally, I like him. I certainly don't listen to him as much as I do other guys, but he is good to listen to and not think super hard while doing so.

That would sure undermine prosperity gospel.

If you want to get religious commentary from a multi-millionaire, you already have a serious problem.
Just look up Prosperity Theology, yes it is a real thing these assholes believe in. Including Trumps "faith advisor."

>But most of everything he says he backs up in the Bible, even the prosperity gospel.
No. Grabbing single sentences that marginally relate to a topic and conning them together is not "backing" something up from the bible. And claiming blessings from Deuteronomy 28 would be asinine for anyone; those blessings were for the Jews, and only if they kept the law (v.1), something the entire bible agrees never happened.

Out of curiosity, what part of prosperity theology do you have an issue with (in a Biblical sense, i.e. not from a natural/man-made law pov)?

I enjoy his sermons
They are usually uplifting
And they help remind me how we should treat others.
I also live in Houston

Galatians 3:7-14

Not him, but there is simply no guarantee that believers (christians) or unbelievers will live lives of material comfort or prosperity. Christianity is pretty much the opposite; that's why 2nd Corinthians says "we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; 9persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; 10always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. 11For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh."

...your point? Did you even read that passage? Do you understand why it calls the law of Deuteronomy a curse?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt
be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

I'm not the fag that believes in prosperity gospel, but I don't think this command was prescriptive for everyone. It was a specific invitation to this kid to be the 12th disciple, and he passed on it.

Might I suggest Dr. Charles Stanley

Him and his plastic wife are Nancy Pelosi creepy.

donotfollow/10

Or Ravi zecharias, or Lon solomon

The law refers to the 10 commandments (in a very basic sense). The curse of the law refers to the fact that before Jesus died on the cross, man's sin earned us an eternity in hell. But because Jesus became the curse for our sake, the curse isn't a thing Christians worry about. Deuteronomy 28 is refering to the blessings of Abraham, who in spite of the law, was given various promises because God up and decided his bloodline, or rather, Isaac's bloodline (or rather, the Jews), would be blessed. This eventually would pass onto the gentiles who became Christians as per Galatians 3. So the curse and those blessings are independent of each other.

>Deuteronomy 28 is refering to the blessings of Abraham


No it's not you....you DOUBLE NIGGER.

READ Deuteronomy 28. The very first verses say "If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God."

They were a SPECIFIC reward if the Jews kept the law which they could not do, never did, and which Galatians warned Christians against trying to keep.

And no, the blessing of Abraham was simply Christ; "through you all inhabitants of the earth will be blessed" wasn't the material prosperity of Deut28, it was that now everyone can be saved from their sins.

This is what happens when you listen to lazy heresy.

one of the main criticism against him is that he does not preach real Christianity, but instead preaches a very water down version and focuses purely on monetary/ materialistic ideas. when instead he should be preaching about salvation, proper behavior, the mission of jesus and otehr

But that verse has to do with giving, not recieving. The principle of prosperity is that with your giving (also known as sowing) comes recieving a harvest of 30, 60, or 100 fold. The tithe is 10% of that harvest which belongs to God, and the sower is the steward of the rest. Now, imagine for a second everyone in the world was Christian and gave every cent they had as soon as they recieved some form of income. Who becomes the recipient of that money? I guess my point is that giving is awesome. Christians should freely give, but recieving is also important. If someone declined the gift of what Jesus did by dying for our sins because they would just have to give it away, we might think that foolish. And let me also say God says to be a good steward of our earnings because it is by his grace that we have things in general. So yes, it is possible to do bad with the money you earn, but having money isn't evil, hence why the Bible makes the distiction that it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil.

I listed to the recorded shows on Sirius. They're self-help and feel goody stuff. It has zero to do with religion really.

We could argue that he's a bad person because his net worth is $450 million and he's not using all of it to help people but that's another issue.

This is what i love about Sup Forums. We're a bunch of cynical racist degenerates with a semi-working understanding of biblical teachings. Deus vult, faggots. Deus vult.

>The principle of prosperity is that with your giving (also known as sowing) comes recieving a harvest of 30, 60, or 100 fold.

Of course. But no verse, for believers or unbelievers, supports the idea that you will receive such a proportional reward in this life. That's why it's false teaching.

The only thing that man worships is money

>theoLOGy
>log

Gtfo Andy sixx

Anyone who grew up in the west has a halfway decent working knowledge of the bible. The fact that Sup Forums is civilly discussing a fucking dipshit televangelist like osteen is just proof that this place has gone so far into hell it's overflowed the divinity variable and ended up in heaven.

If you count "not being existent" as a problem with his theology, then yeah, there's problems with his theology.

That's all bogus. Look at the context of Matthew 19 as a whole - it's very clearly saying that rich people can't get to heaven. "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

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he's pretty cool,
he baptized all of Houston in just a few days

Ah! Okay, I see your point. So yes, the Jews couldn't keep the law because the law was impossible to keep, hence why it took a perfect man, Jesus, to fulfill it. As for your point about what it actually is, keep in mind that the Jews could not buy their own salvation, hence why it wouldn't make much sense if following the law to a T earned you the gift of what Christ did. In Galatians 3:7, there does exist a warning to not follow the law, but that's because Jesus already did it, so trying to reinvent the wheel would end up being fruitless and vain. He says in 3:7-9 that Christians (or rather, those in faith), are the "new" sons of Abraham, and therefore the heirs to his blessings, which we can claim because in terms of what the law is, Christians are deemed flawless. Being covered by what Jesus did earned us the physical rewards from Deuteronomy 28.

He's fine, he's just super neutral because he wants to be a church that appeals to everyone.

clap

A con man...they all are...give me money...ffs...if you tithe you're a fucking retard

It doesn't say explicitly that you can't go to heaven if you are rich, just that it is extremely unlikely.

>nd therefore the heirs to his blessings, which we can claim because in terms of what the law is, Christians are deemed flawless. Being covered by what Jesus did earned us the physical rewards from Deuteronomy 28.


You track okay up to this point. Stop saying the blessings of Deuteronomy 28 are the "blessings of Abraham." That's total nonsense, unsupported by any reading of Deuteronomy 28.

Look through the entire New Testament to see the blessings that we inherit or receive because of Jesus Christ's finished work. There's absolutely nothing that resembles the list in Deuteronomy 28. We are promised persecution, hatred, and trial.

The thing is, this has been the case since the very beginning of Christiantiy. Look at Acts 5 - Peter found out that a new convert, who was supposed to sell his house and give it all to the founders of Christianity, kept some of it. So Peter berated them and they died. They died because they didn't give all their money to Peter.

Osteen is just carrying on the great Christian tradition.

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The Greek (or take a look at the Amplified) makes an important distinction. It isn't just a rich person - it is a person who places their faith in their money. And further down, when the disciples ask how it's even possible to be saved, he makes a point that with man, you can't, but with God, you can. Being worldly rich and being Godly rich are two different things. The distinction comes from understanding the source of an income, which is God, as opposed to the sweat of a man's brow. You can still be blessed if your income is earned through God (or also tithed, but that's another story).

Good explanation. I agree.

They died because they claimed to have given it all, not because they didn't give everything.
It was the lie that was the problem, not the amount.

But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation. -- Luke 6:24

Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. -- James 5:1

Y’all remember the story of Job? God wanted to murder everyone who believed in prosperity doctrine, such as televangelists.

But giving your money to Osteen expecting more money in return is the very definition of a worldly desire.

Again, I'm not the prosperity gospel apologist. What's happening with the rich young ruler is that he literally believes he's perfect - he has the balls to claim to Jesus Christ's face that he's kept the entire law within two seconds of having been warned by Jesus that only God himself is good.

One REASON he has the balls to make that absurd claim is because he's wealthy, and a cultural assumption of Jews (just like modern day prosperity gospel apologists) was that if you were rich, you must be blessed by God for being good.

The reason it's hard for rich people to get into heaven is because they tend to reject the idea that they need Christ and reject the idea that they are imperfect failures. It's hard, but as Jesus immediately concluded, it's not impossible.

David was king of Israel and the wealthiest man in the nation, a sinner and it was said that he was a friend of God.
It is about people who love money over God.

The great? Wake up...its a scam and you know it...he lives in a multi million dollar pad...while his flock live in poverty...can you not see that this is bullshit?

Strange that only lies that made Peter poorer are worthy of death.

Everything is different in the New Testament.

It was money that was given away to feed widows. It didn't make Peter richer or poorer one way or another.

any time i've listened to him, he tries telling a story. he goes something like:

>you know, just the other day i met a...

no he didn't. not a few minutes into it, he's lying. he does it every fucking time.

TheoLOGy

Are you thinking to yourself right now...
>I am pretty damn rich, is there any way to transfer cash into Jesus points?
Then yes, this guy is your expert.

Indoctrinated at birth the lot of you...if you were born elsewhere you wouldn't believe in this garbage...your lack of critical thinking is laughable...one day you will wake from your slumber and think...why the fuck did I fall for this rubbish.

The apostles were living pretty simple lives, the money mostly went to food for the Christians.

True, it is the new pact, but how would one define rich? is it having more than the average? If so all of us discussing this are rich since we have access to the internet.
Do not think I am pro prosperity gospel though, I am anything but.

euphoria/10

Holy fuck Luke 18:18 fucking GET.
Suck it rich fags. God wants you to get fucking humble.

Yet you still need it to explain your misery, if it wasn't around you would have nothing to blame it on.

I get the whole "Blessings of Abraham" bit from Galatians. Also let me make a few distinctions: what Jesus did didn't do away with the Old Testament and the law. Jesus fulfilled the law, so many verses about prosperity still apply, such as Proverbs 3:9-10. To mention things from the New Testament, Luke 6:38, 2 Corinthians 9:8, and Philippians 4:19 all illustrate prosperity in spite of the awfulness this world brings.

>2018
>Still Believe in God
>Listen to Joel O'Steen]
>Send Joel O'Steen 20$
>OP is out 20$ that joel O'Steen gets to spend on blackjack and hookers

Joel Osteen practices bad theology for the purpose of making rich people feel good about being rich and give him money.

The problem IS the theology. He's a decent motivational speaker, but angles everything from a religious perspective because those people are easy to take advantage of.

Toppest of keks. Retards arguing over the true meaning of a sand-nigger fairy story book. Just when you think godtards could not possibly get any dumber.....

What do you think "need/needs" mean in the context of those verses?

b-but you probably wear a hat!!

Not necessarily. Tithing and what you do with the money really make a lot of difference in your attitude. We expect more money because God himself says we can challenge him on that subject. When I give, I expect to recieve a harvest because God said I would get one. Now, what I do with that money is between me and God, but I know I am blessed if I give hilariously and I know God will rebuke the devourer for my sake because of my tithe. But it isn't selfish. I expect money because I want to do good by other people, but doing that nets me more money, and the cycle continues. As for what I keep, I consult God or the Bible. Simple as that.

Nothing in Galatians can be construed to suggest that the blessings of Deuteronomy 28 are the "blessings of Abraham" that follow to the world. It's unsupportable.

Luke 6 is about forgiveness. 2 Corinthians 9:8, and Philippians 4:19 don't illustrate "prosperity" the way prosperity gospel apologists suggest, they illustrate the opposite - they say God will give you everything you NEED. That means that you can be in absolute poverty and poor health, but God will enable you to be obedient to him, because that's what you actually need.

Proverbs is close to a principle of prosperity, but it isn't, because an important thing to keep in mind is that Proverbs are "wise sayings" and are very much generalities, not commandments with promises. That's how they can also observe that wicked people prosper while righteous people starve - because it's not a rule, it's just the way God has generally designed the earth to run.

Joel Osteen is a heretic

>recieving a harvest of 30, 60, or 100 fold

You keep using harvest terminology. Do you realize the parable of the sower is about evangelism, not tithing?

This

what he preaches is nice on the ears but isn't the gospel.
so thats the problem. if he didn't claim to be a christian preacher but a self help guru he would be fine.

Gospel is
We/You're a liar, thief, and maybe worst (probably 100% sure since we are on Sup Forums)

And God standards is His perfect Law. So we are screwed.

No amount of works can undo what you already broke. So God came down as Jesus and acted as a supernatural scape goat for your sins.

If you appreciate the effort, you can now escape hell if you repent and trust in calvary.

The same question could apply to "overflowing." Many verses talk about dependence on God, but many also talk about an overwhelming abundance of stuff past our needs. My apologies for kind of answering your question with a question, but seeing that the Bible talks about going past the baseline of our needs is important, or at least I think so.

Well let's just say that his show is open to everyone and always has been. He's never said it wasn't, but was waiting for other programs to become full of audience members before advertising his show. Also once you do listen in be prepared to contribute to his shows funds in order for them to continue to operate a show open to everyone

What you fail to realize is that your "needs" aren't material at all. Your purpose is to obey and glorify God, and so you only "need" things that are necessary to obey and glorify God. Those are things like scripture, hope, wisdom, understanding, faith, love, etc.

You can be crippled and destitute and still glorify God, and it may well be his plan for you to be just that. You don't need health and wealth at all. Stop assuming that you do.

This post answered it pretty well.
>Proverbs is close to a principle of prosperity, but it isn't, because an important thing to keep in mind is that Proverbs are "wise sayings" and are very much generalities, not commandments with promises.

But the concept of sowing applies to finances as well, which is mentioned several other times in the Bible. Sowing itself is a Biblical principle, which is why many consider the 30, 60, 100 fold thing a part of any sowing.

this guy said everything i was gonna write

>2018
>believing in a sky fairy

Lets make this simple.
>magic thing controls everything
>awful shit happens on a daily basis
>magic thing wants that to happen
>magic thing is evil

That's like saying butts are a principle because the bible mentions asses. The 30, 60, 100 fold thing is part of evangelism, not your false gospel, friend.

Since atheists claim that there is no God, why do some have such hostility against those who do believe in God? Why do some seem to have a mission in life or an axe to grind against Christians or Christianity and even against God? Why do they detest a belief in something that they themselves don’t believe in? Since there is no Santa Clause, why don’t they go up to every Santa Clause they meet and rail against them or not existing since both don’t seem to exist to them?

Buh ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Keep thinking a Sky-Fairy will save you when your meatbag get smashed and whatever you call a life is extinguished.
Heaven?....NOT accept the cold black nothingness that is life-after-death
Joel O'Steen is taking your gullibility in a belief of a higher being to suck the money outta ya wallet.
Someone fucking shoot this multi-millionaire con-artist please
A fuckinghurricane hits his city....and he don't wanna fuck the carpets of his building up...so he does not take in people until he is called out on national media.
FUCKING JESUS SCAMMER IS WHAT HE IS!!!!!!

░

Ive got a lot of knowledge on the subject- not that you should believe me, but he has NO connection with mainstream Christian theology. If you want the generally accepted theology of today's current church, i'd start with John Piper or Louie Giglio , depending on which side of the coin you're going for.

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Because you legit believe that people should go to fucking hell because they don't believe in your ideology and that is just fucking stupid.

He is better than alright
Always delivers great sermons

Your beliefs go hand in hand with other outdated bullshit ideologies that hurt the human race and stifle scientific discovery. That's why.

My apologies, that was kind of a rushed point. Gah, my point really is that the Bible describes in many places that sowing and reaping is how the world works. We treat verses like these as parts of how this principle functions as opposed to saying that some parts of sowing and reaping don't apply to others. If the Bible makes a point of saying the universe revolves around sowing and reaping, it might be safe to insinuate that when the Bible refers s&r, it means s&r as a whole; not just one small way it is used.

You are one of those rich men who love money over God and will not get into the kingdom of God unless you change your ways.

is right, God is not your wishing well.