Minimum Wage

Why is Sup Forums generally against the raising of the minimum wage? I'm pretty neutral on subject but I'm wondering which side is right.

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Minimum wage should be $0. It's for me to decide with my employer

Because raising the minimum wage reduces the number of available jobs for those who need to develop job skills to make it in the world. It's inherently unethical.

Most posters on pol has never worked a day in their life and believe they'll be the ones doing the hiring.

I make much more than the minimum wage so I am against raising the minimum wage because I've got mine so fuck my lessers

then you'll have a hard time finding employees

Sup Forums is filled with naive edgy teens who think they'll be capitalists one day and so want to keep costs low for their future self.

But since they're NEETs who don't go outside, their retarded world view doesn't have to relate to reality.

Because economically, there are periods where the minimum wage SHOULD be increased: when unemployment is very, very low. If it is not, you risk devastating what people are currently working and impacting the economy worse than what might happen as a result of giving the poor more money.

When unemployment IS low, it's perfectly fine to raise the minimum wage. But right now, it's not.

I think you have a point. Why should the government tell your employer what he should pay his employees? If they don't like their pay then they should talk it out or find another job.
I see what you mean.
A valid point, someone out for themself only.

Raising the minimum wage incentivizes the hiring of illegal or foreign labor, monopolies as the big businesses that can afford the wage hike can buy up the small businesses who can't and go out of business, and any initial benefits that the wage hike grants will be short term, as the rest of the economy adjusts; businesses are now free to charge more for their goods and services as the guaranteed baseline of consumers have gotten "richer," meaning managers and professionals who survived the net negative change in small business growth with get "richer" too, but when everyone is making more dollars, it doesn't mean everyone is richer, it just makes for a weaker dollar, except on the world stage, which means even cheaper imports, cheaper foreign labor, and another hit to domestic, legal employment numbers.

because artificially setting the wage higher creates strain on the company for a job that is low skill and doesn't deserve it, setting a higher wage would either eliminate the job, cut the workforce, or companies will cut the middle man and just order robots to do it for them.

the employer should be able to decide if the workers deserve a higher wage or not,

and if workers decide they aren't making enough and another company that does the same job pays higher, they should be freely able to go over to that employer for a better pay,

THAT'S CALLED COMPETITION, FUCKER

Hear hear!

Because the demand curve slopes downwards, this means, all things being equal, employment will decrease. Additionally the people who need jobs the most are the most effected by it, this includes unskilled people, the disabled, young adults and teenagers.

The minimum wage is always $0 though.

Also, the minimum wage is sheer corporatism. Proponents often point to McDonalds and say "They can afford it!". Absolutely true. McDonalds can afford it but smaller entrepreneurs can't. It's meant to push out competition.

Consider South Africa under apartheid. Who do you suppose lobbied the government for equal pay legislation and a high minimum wage? Blacks? Nope. It was white unions who knew that the minimum wage would price them out of the market.

>It's inherently unethical.
You mean like the profit that these businesses refuse to use to pay their employees a living wage?

>Also, the minimum wage is sheer corporatism. Proponents often point to McDonalds and say "They can afford it!". Absolutely true. McDonalds can afford it but smaller entrepreneurs can't. It's meant to push out competition.

This. Minimum wage makes it hard to start your own business. Large business are more cost efficient and can afford it. Or at least they can afford a high minimum wage long enough for all the small businesses to fail before replacing their minimum wage employees with machines.

It also drives companies to outsource to nations with lower minimum wages. creates great opportunities for illegal immigrants, contributes to inflation, hurts the elderly, etc. It accomplishes the exact opposite it's supposed intent by making it harder for working class Americans to get jobs or start their own businesses.

It's not the businesses job to make sure you're staying current on your bills or not living in a shit shack. Its been proven time and time again that you can live decently on 12 grand a year, learn to budget your money better

It's the companies job o make sure you have enough on your paycheck, their job is to make money and meet he bottom line, not be a fucking charity

It's NOT the companies job to make sure you are alive is what I meant

>I think you have a point. Why should the government tell your employer what he should pay his employees? If they don't like their pay then they should talk it out or find another job.
Exactly this.

Secure the borders.
Deport illegals.
Raise minimum wage.

Then we will debate whether or not we need more immigrants.

Yep

"If you want me to keep working here. Either raise my pay, or I'll go over to John's pluming who will pay me twice what you do"

Close the borders
Deport the illegals
Impose import tariffs

Only then can we raise the minimum wage.

>ur all virgin neckbeards in mom's basement XDDDDD

The minimum wage, adjusted for inflation, should be about $15 an hour.

youtube.com/watch?v=WXKLa2zfoTk

>It's NOT the companies job to make sure you are alive

Well, it is, to a point.

Worker's comp is fucking expensive.

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Very funny. The true minimum wage is always $0. Anything else simply condemns the less productive members of society to a lifetime of employment.

I could care less if the minimum wage is 15 at Macdonalds. I cook at home cuz I make full pound patties with cheese in the middle

I'm for basic income, get rid of the min wage.

supply and demand ought to realise equilibrium. Price floors are interference.

Say you make $10/hour at a job starting out.

You work there over 5 years and gradually through pay raises make it up to $15/hr over that time.

Then they just raise the minimum wage to $15/hr.........you worked at that with no progressive earning over time in the long run.

Now before you say that is unskilled, get a real job blah blah, it's an example.

If you make 60k a year and have a degree or training or some shit, or worked there for a long time to get that. A minimum wage employee making 9 bucks an hour = $18k roughly a year, and the min wage jumps to 15/hr, now makes 30k a year, and you don't get a pay raise, effectively making your money less valuable.

Im not, it's good at keeping the negros unemployed

>Minimum wage got my adrenaline caged, especially when I'm engaged and my daugthers down to her last diaper has got my ass hyper, I pray the god for an answer - maybe I'll ask nicer.

.. Wonder if he's a Berniebot or a Hillary artillary.

The minimum wage should be periodically raised so that real income doesn't decrease. A minimum wage is important because workers do not have as much negotiating power as employers and it increases purchasing power and therefor growth.

Because it risks fucking the whole system up and costing a lot of people jobs and money.

lets say you earn minimum wage $7.25/h and I earn $15/h

I drive forklifts and you work at McDonalds.

You get a raise to $15/h. All of a sudden your labor is worth the same as mine, and your job is easier. Why would I continue to drive forklifts when I can flip burgers for the same pay? In order for my employer to keep me as an employee, he'll have to give me a raise, costing him money, and he's not even associated with the whole minimum wage thing as he already pays his workers over double the minimum wage. Now the law is fucking him over, and my job security would be at risk if he can no longer afford to keep me employed at the new wage.

If you raise the minimum wage, you're going to see the wages of a lot more than minimum wage workers rise, and many businesses aren't prepared for that.

Another question, what would be the consequences of raising the minimum wage over a long period of time (periodically)?

What profit margin do you think minimum wage employers are making in their business?

Spain has a whole lost generation of youth thanks to things like a high minimum wage. You need low wage jobs so that unskilled people have a way to enter the jobs market.

Minimum wage is a price floor on labor and it will lead to bad distortionary effects on the market; namely like others have said it will benefit large corporations who can absorb the cost while preventing upstart businesses from competing with them (competition drives down prices and increases quality). In other words it's a barrier to entry; to enter the market requires a lot more capital, which means less businesses in every industry which means less competition.

youtube.com/watch?v=j0c2vmFGbtk

You make minimum wage. $290 a week. Let's just say that you spend $250 of that on necessities.

You suddenly start making $600 a week. It helps for a short time, but with so many people making more money, prices raise and now you spend $550 a week on necessities. Your net gain hasn't changed very much. You only just contribute to inflation.

2 minutes in paint

yeah but unless you're going in and getting hurt every month they aren't there to give you 20k+ a year,

and yeah, they do, it's only natural, if you get hurt on the job, it happened on their time, so it's only morally right that they foot the bill

really that law is there because people kept getting hurt with sub-par safety standards and the lawsuits kept forcing companies to pay out

now companies have a fund set-aside for workers comp, so that way if say jumbo breaks his foot on a broken spot on the floor or johnny breaks his arm on a peice of equipment they can just cut them a fat check and give them paid leave until they heal up

Raising the minimum wage results in people no longer striving to succeed.
If you can live and get by off of minimum wage, what's the point of getting a degree and bettering yourself?
Also high school kids wouldn't be able to get as many jobs and get any money or work experience, given there's more adults working minimum wage jobs now.

If they could suddenly get by on just minimum wage, why don't we just raise the minimum wage to 100$ so everyone can be middle class?

>When unemployment islamic state low

The fuck are you talking about?

>Why is Sup Forums generally against the raising of the minimum wage?

it's a stupid way to handle a complex problem, you raise wages and greedy cunts just raise prices if they have no other incentives to invest capital

which is why heavy taxation had worked well in the past, you couldn't keep it so might as well grow your business rather than be taxed

I'd really like to see all taxes abolished but land tax, only land in highly populated areas need to be taxed, that in itself could handle all the nation's tax needs

>implying getting a degree means fuck all anymore

I'd love to see property taxes in Portland hit levels sufficient to fund the rest of the state on their own. These shitlibs would turn conservative real fast if that happened.

Both are correct. The problem is our currency being rigged. Without inflation our banks collapse.

Essentially every year your dollar must be worth less. Saving money is wasted money, if it isn't spent our consumer economy suffers.

If they spent money effectively they would have more than enough at the current tax rates (especially here in canada).

The problem is they spend money on useless half baked ideas that dont work out and then beg the middle class for more. In the US all you have to do is cut defense spending. Boom. Problem solved.

if it was true that increased minimum wage causes prices to rise then why don't decreased costs cause prices to fall

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This. It really is this simple.

what makes those boats magic

it's common knowledge that if the boats weigh less then the water they displace, they'll float

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Fix inflation, not the minimum wage.

?

What he's saying is you're a fucking retard, or a troll that's got both of us.

i have yet to see anything that supports that claim

No it's about density nigger. obviously you are wrong.

what do you think density is a measure of

One last point on this subject. Proponents of minimum wage point to the people on welfare and say:

>Oh, don't like having taxes go to welfare? Maybe if we raised the minimum wage, they wouldn't be on welfare and your taxes would go down.

Horseshit. The minimum wage creates MORE people on welfare. Increasing the MW doesn't cause mass unemployment as a lot of right wingers say (Not even professional or academic economists say that), but it does price the lowest skilled workers out of the market, especially young workers who often have no experience whatsoever. Combine that with dysfunctional black communities and you have a recipe for creating people who are absolutely un-hireable under any circumstance, and they will end up on welfare.

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fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/raising-the-minimum-wage-misguided-policy-unintended-consequences.pdf

>There is an enormous body of empirical research examining the e ects of the minimum wage. Canadian studies are considered of higher quality than US studies because (among other reasons) there is a wider variability in the provincial Canadian minimum-wage variable. Canadian literature generally finds that a 10% increase in the minimum wage reduces employment among teens and young adults (ages 15 to 24) by 3% to 6%. By making it harder for low-skilled workers to obtain an entry-level position, the minimum wage may perversely hinder the development of human capital and harm the long-term career prospects of the very people it ostensibly helps. Indeed, Canadian researchers have found that hiking the minimum wage has no statistically significant impact on poverty and in some cases can increase it.

A federal minimum wage makes no sense, but local communities should be able to choose as the most optimal minimum various widely. $15 minimum wage might make sense in NYC, but the current $7.25 might be too high in Nebraska.

I think a minimum wage is just too inaccurate of a tool to protect low income workers. There should be other ways to ensure lower income workers are not being taken advantage of, like strengthening unions, or taxing companies based on how much government benefits their employees use due to being underpaid. Slapping a hard minimum line on everyone, everywhere doesn't help.