Why the fuck are people so onboard with giving children hormone blockers and shit that will make them sterile even...

Why the fuck are people so onboard with giving children hormone blockers and shit that will make them sterile even though they can't actually switch between male and female or vice versa? Are people just getting indoctrinated into this shit and have no actual understanding of how biology works?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=E0v_idyvjco
youtube.com/watch?v=V9psFtbw4Gg
pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/when-transgender-kids-transition-medical-risks-are-both-known-and-unknown/
npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/07/22/424996915/health-effects-of-transitioning-in-teen-years-remain-unknown
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2444866417301101
sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170202141451.htm
youtube.com/watch?v=bZe5J8SVCYQ
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

Why do you care what they do?

I hope you share the same sentiments against circumcision.

I was circumcised and I wish I had been given the choice on it since I'll never know what it is like to have foreskin. Giving children hormone blockers seems like child abuse to me, especially given that a lot of these parents that have trans kids are also doing things like trying to raise them without gender in the first place.

I do. it's cleaner in a way. but this shit is just fucking whack yo op should care because they are children you pedo fuck.

>bioLOGy

When I hear about this shit all I can think about are the Rat Utopia experiments and the pathological behaviours that resulted in collective self-termination.

This kid is kind of a perfect example. People celebrate how "amazing" this is while ignoring the fact that one of the kids parents is also trans and transitioned. I find it hard to believe that is a coincidence that the child just happened to be trans too.

youtube.com/watch?v=E0v_idyvjco

...

Humanities consciousness has always only been able to hold a set number. Like Noah's ark, people fight for their place, what happens to the rest isn't of relevance to those "on board".

Let them suffer.~

>wheres the nudes?

Drink the bleach!

youtube.com/watch?v=V9psFtbw4Gg

Ask the kid's transgender parents, I'm sure they will give you them since they clearly have no fucking morals.

>edgy.
ya duh, but don't make your kid a product for the world to consume.

I'd rather drink the bleach then have any further association tbh.

Hahahah any kid I have will consume the world.

It's part of the them and us thing. I think.

We can only give a shit about a certain number of people. It's why Amish communities are strictly ~150 people as maximum. A figure also arrived at by one means or another with monastic communities and primitive tribes.

With more interconnectivity between social groups we stop thinking of "me" as the base unit and start thinking of a slightly larger group as the base unit. The close family/friend circle consisting of maybe a dozen. So now we can have ~150 x ~12 in the us in us and the great nebulous them. Keep expanding this as society grows more complex.

But an upper limit is reached in the me and the us. The 150 never changes, just adding more layers between the individual and that.

And that is fine. Us and them can get along. It only becomes a problem in times of scarcity because unlike the NIMH funded experiments of John B Calhoun we are not rats and only exhibit that level of fuck awful after extreme long term stress. Them and us can exist indefinitely so long as mutual respect for borders exists with all parties.

Then along comes multi-culturalism that breaks down the borders and then we not only remember why we put up walls in the first place but also we find that we can still only give a shit about a certain number of social interactions and the groups/individuals attached to those interactions.

And now we are surrounded by what we can't help but class as non-people, no matter how much we hate ourselves for it, barely any of which we don't find irritating at best and insufferable at worst.

Eventually social interaction breaks down and we think only of ourselves, the one undeniable fact of our lives, and the things we can directly influence in our own self aggrandizing image.

Hence tranny parents fucking up their kids and other such acts of narcissism.

hard to care about whatever you wrote on an anonymous board, sorry if I know you

Drink the bleach or go back to your safe space from the imaginary violence that trans people suffer from every day.

No need to be sorry. This is Sup Forums. Everything is shit until proven otherwise.

They aren't just fucking up their kids, they are trying to push this crap into elementary schools so they are going to be fucking up even more children.

Because why should they not? Those aren't kids. Those are non-people pieces of clay to shape into images in likeness of themselves to justify and make great what they have done to themselves.

Why do you care? Just get on with your life, forgot.

I work with kids and I don't want them exposed to the ideological crap that trans activists are pushing.

And here we see the lack of basic human empathy born of modern "tolerance".

"Why should you car? It's not your kid."

The militant tranny does not care what they do to their child for the same lack of basic humanity.

I never had a problem with the LGBT movement for the longest time either, once they started adding letters and made up pronouns they really just started pushing a lot of crazy ideological bullshit.

The only ones I ever had an issue with were the ones that make their sexuality the defining factor in their identity. Basically the ones on the Pride marches.

Those ones are the worst. The one trans activist type I knew would tell you her orientation faster than a Mormon would tell you their religion and yet also act like they had to hide their identity because they were at risk of violence for being trans.

Please fuck off or contribute to the thread

We are in agreement

Turn off your VPN and leave Sup Forums alone.
Fucking Moldovans.

Permanantly sterile?

In order to receive that treatment you have to go to therapy sessions and shit and they hammer the facts into you. It's not ignorance that leads people down that road, but hatred for one's own identity.

Hormone blockers on kids are a thing?

But just to get this straight, hormones determine how you feel and act. that's the reason MOST people are happy with how they are born, it's in their system.

does this mean that their kids almost certanly won't get kids themselves?

well, at least the rational ones will survive.

The ones with rational parents.

This is being inflicted on them.

...

>hormone blockers and shit that will make them sterile

Good. This will remove their fucked up tranny genes from the human race. I have no problem with this.

Fuck it I've got some time to kill, I'll bite.
Could you please define a few terms so we're on the same page; what do you mean by male and female and what do you mean by 'switch between'? The basis of my argument will be around this, rather than touching on the more subjective stuff you express like 'are people getting indoctrinated?'.

>what do you mean by male and female

nigga you serious? you are one of them aren't you?

I am totally serious, because I think OP has a different way of defining these terms than I do. If we're framing the debate in different ways we'll never reach any understanding. I'll ask again, what is male/female? What is meant by 'switching between?'
Anyone actually versed in the literature/studies on these issues will already know the angle I'm going for. If you don't understand what I'm insinuating by asking these questions, I'd argue you're simply not very versed in the topic you yourself decided to discuss.

Use the passion you have now to empower your actions. Your future starts with you.

overpopulation. we should sterilize MORE people, not fewer

Wtf? Who is doing that shit? Shouldn't it be illegal to block the natural growth process of the human body until age of consent, or fucking children?


SICK SOCIETY! FUCK YOU MILLENNIALS YOU SICK FUCKS!

Don't worry gramps the obsolete generation always feels that way.

Calm down, this doesn't hurt you at all. It's not illegal, because not doing so causes the people prescribed this treatment more severe health issues than putting off puberty. There is actually very little that's dangerous about HRT and it's reversible unless you've taken it for a huge amount of time; time enough to stop if you regretted it.
It's safe, reversible and only used if not doing so is an unsafe option. What's the problem? Do you have a moral objection to it? If so please come out and say, rather than disingenuously hiding behind the idea that it's a safety issue in your mind.

Stop triggering me.

I just wanna say, as a transguy, that I disagree strongly with children being allowed to transition.

Hormone blockers aren't scientifically tested to their fullest extent and we've only seen bad come of it. I think that people should be required to be 18 and go through therapy and psychological vetting before being allowed hormones. Hormone blockers should be outlawed.

>le triggered meme
Truly the most dead, forced meme of our time

I have to ask then, why intervene and why feel the need to shove hormone blockers into a child? Because it's depressed? Because it feels lonely and doesn't know how to communicate well with others? Because instead of helping them develop social skills and be part of society you convince them that they convince you that they want to be the opposite gender without developing fully? Why not give them a chance the benefit of the doubt, let them grow up us they were convinced, and only THEN let them consciously and objectively decide if they WANT to be transgender. Many transitioned post puberty after realizing through their NATURAL development that it's not who they are and want to be...

These hormone blockers is just a forceful way to make them more confused during development. Depression is most prevalent during this age too, and all this is simply the WRONG way to go around it. Period.

The OP answered his own question.

>Hormone blockers aren't scientifically tested to their fullest extent
Seeing as you're clearly well versed on this, could you tell me what still needs studding or where you feel the research is lacking? Please be as specific as possible.
>we've only seen bad come of it
Simply untrue, but I'd be interested to hear what leads you to such baseless assumption.
> think that people should be required to be 18 and go through therapy and psychological vetting before being allowed hormones.
Trans people do go through therapy alongside transition. They are vetted in some way if they are under 18, informed consent is only applied to adults. Where do you get this assumption that it's otherwise from?
>Hormone blockers should be outlawed.
Why? Based on what, your opinion?

Bonus question; what do you mean by trans guy?

Also to fix myself I meant..

"let them grow up us they were conceived"

>trans people do go through therapy alongside transition
Yeah, I had outside therapy before I went in to get testosterone, but many that I speak to now, especially younger ones, just go in and say they feel this way. I haven't been in therapy since I started my T treatments, personally. I'm in my mid 20s and was presenting male for years before I started T, but I see so many people where that's not the case anymore.

As for the hormone blockers thing, lemme pull up a little research.

And by trans guy I mean I was born with a vadge and I've been a man for eight years.

Thanks for the reply.
> Because it's depressed? Because it feels lonely and doesn't know how to communicate well with others? Because instead of helping them develop social skills and be part of society you convince them that they convince you that they want to be the opposite gender without developing fully?
Literally none of these reasons apply, you made them up and assumed this is why people transition. Of course people sound dumb when you put dumb words in their mouth.
The reason people transition is to alleviate dysphoria; that is to match their internal gender with their external sex as closely as possible. To apply other rational to it is straw-manning.
>let them grow up us they were convinced
This is why they transition; they were conceived with a different sense of gender than society puts on them due to their sex. To suggest otherwise relies on an appeal to nature at some point, which is a fallacy.
>Many transitioned post puberty after realizing through their NATURAL development that it's not who they are and want to be.
And far, far more don't. A huge proportion of trans people do not regret transitioning.
>Period.
Not period, no. Saying 'I am right' does not make you right, saying 'that's the end of this' does not end the conversation. It's an appeal to authority, only you're taking your authority on this topic for granted.

>And by trans guy I mean I was born with a vadge and I've been a man for eight years.
Fair enough dude, sorry to ask. I thought maybe it was a troll post and they meant 'trans woman' but didn't have the language to articulate that. Sorry for asking, genuinely.
I'll wait on your research before I comment any further but thanks for taking the time to reply.

pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/when-transgender-kids-transition-medical-risks-are-both-known-and-unknown/

npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/07/22/424996915/health-effects-of-transitioning-in-teen-years-remain-unknown

sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2444866417301101

sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/02/170202141451.htm

To name a few. All of these articles and studies basically say that we're still using hormone blockers but we have no or little idea of what the long-term effects are.

>to alleviate dysphoria
An underage person can present as the opposite gender with little difficulty. I did, in private.

not that dude, but hormone modulation has loads of downstream effects that aren't immediately obvious, nor understood.

example, testosterone and it's affects on HPTA axis. you've got multiple levels of inhibition happening in multiple systems, all of which are responsible for other interactions.

beyond that, by modifying one step in the chain (like blocking a receptor) you cause upregulation of that hormones production, and subsequent oversaturation of related, unblocked receptors.

if you're blocking all receptors for that hormone, then you're going to have a buildup of every intermediate in that biosynthetic pathway.

this shit is really fucking complex, and new drugs affecting hormonal systems are being developed all the time. they haven't been around long enough to see the long term consequences.

some of these things we are just unable to study right now. there is no way to be reductionist here. this shit is very complex and far-reaching, biochemically.

In my opinion, this is a medical issue. The parents are not allowed to harm the child, but the medical doctors are responsible for defining what is harmful and what is not in this situation, as they are the ones tasked with the procedure.

See, what if suddenly doctors have a spiritual awakening and decide there is no death. And they go psycho and now ur 6 feet under, but according to the law you are still unharmed and alive. Because the doctors have all refused to announce you as dead. No, you are a free spirit, ridin the kitten rainbowfarthighway

puberty can be restarted at anytime no problems

this allows the child to have time to make their decision

and yes a child has to decide life is fair

Yes, puberty can be "restarted", but that doesn't reverse the ill effects that have built up in the meantime. It's not a switch you can just turn off or on. Do you even read about this shit?

>To name a few. All of these articles and studies basically say that we're still using hormone blockers but we have no or little idea of what the long-term effects are.
I'll read through them, thank you.
As for 'I did', that's anecdotal. That aside, the point of blockers is to delay the maturation of secondary sexual characteristic, which will out you other wise and will cause dysphoria. Even then I can speak from experience in saying you can feel dysphoric before that point.
Thanks for the reply.
Interesting post, thank you. I think some of the above research is in order before I comment any further.

i bet her mom/dad wrote those notes. and she is just using her kid to spread it becasue people wont hate on kids they think. wle ohhh boy is she wrong. everybody is open to hate. something we prove here on Sup Forums daily. and a commenter wil probly prove by hating me in the next 30min. i love it

>no problems

well there you go, OP. You got your answer
Are people just getting indoctrinated into this shit and have no actual understanding of how biology works?

> have no actual understanding of how biology works?
Then please enlighten us, oh great gender messiah

to give these to kids. its might not be completly known. but we do know that hormones can disturb growth and brain development if its not regulated by the body but injected in to them.
this is why its also banned to use hormones and steroid on kids who wanna be body builders.

>it's cleaner in a way.
how would you know?

because people are idiots. it's better to virute signal your way to being super progressive by screwing with your kids development than being a parent and protecting them from the mental illness that is incoming from this shit.

I look at it this way, any millenial who wants a field should get into psychology with a specialization in child psychology. In about 10 years that shit will be a licence to print money with the fucked up things parents are doing to their kids.

Then, if you want to take the other side of this argument. this is no different than what micheal jackson's parents did to him. They chemically castrated him as a child so he wouldn't loose his voice, thus making him (technically) a castrato (google it). Either way, kids are going to be fucked up.

Yes, I did feel dysphoric as a child. Guess what? I didn't know what the fuck it was and I was not in a position to make a decision about it. I mistook it as wanting bigger boobs half the time.

Once again, puberty is not something you can just turn off or on with no repercussions. Our bodies aren't just spigots where we can just turn hormones off or on. The chemicals still go somewhere, and we end up stopping some that we need to mature naturally, gender-specific ways or no.

What studies support your claim?

>because people are idiots.
Thank you for proving that so succinctly in one post

...

This is what my south park education has thought me. Mr Garrison was not fked by his father, because it is against the law, and he hates his father for abiding the law, so he decided to change his gender. Who is to blame, the law, tye father, or mr garrison?

>oh no, Im not a bigot
Kek

Trannies are the fucking aggressors. They're constantly shoving their immorality in our faces and expecting us to accept them as normal. No more. MAKE AMERICA STRAIGHT AGAIN!

What longterm studies were done to support your claim?

here's the thing. the drugs they are pumping these kids full of, we really don't know all the side effects. what happens in 20 years when there is a generation of adults who have never developed properly and are fully sterile due to the mental illness that tells parents that rasing their kids as gender neutral is a good thing. Ever notice that muslims, blacks, latinos or other "visible minorities" are not doing this shit? However, it is pushed on white people. more SJW white genocide shit.

because of the jews

> Guess what? I didn't know what the fuck it was and I was not in a position to make a decision about it. I mistook it as wanting bigger boobs half the time.
I guess that's where therapy comes in though; you're talking like these kids walk into a clinic and just ask for hormones. Assumedly in your case, they'd have worked out you were trans rather than just wanted a boob job.
I never said anything about turning puberty on and off, I was talking about legit trans people who would do well to take hormones and wouldn't stop doing so. I thought that much was obvious.
And they're not spigots, no, but we can and do regularly 'turn on and off' lots of our biology. We stop genes and hormones from expressing for many reasons, from alleviating conditions like MS to routine contraception. It is reductive to think we can just start and stop puberty with no issue, but it is also reductive to assume that means we can't adapt biology at all. There is a mid ground, and that's where my opinion sits. It'd be nice if you'd stop trying to re-frame it as 'I think kids of all ages should take whatever biology altering substances they want'
I wondered if I'd ask that. Until you apply the same expectation to the people I responded to I feel it's unfair to expect me to source. Either we all cite our claims (and I am happy to do so, I'll make it clear) or none of us do. I'd advocate the latter as this is an informal discussion rather than a dissertation or a lecture.

I'm a tranny and I think this shit is dumb. A lot of us do.

Unfortunately it's the transtrenders and tumblrinas who decide to just SKIP all the pain and suffering. No one's allowed to be unhappy, ever. If you're transgender, why not start your therapy at age six? Just go for it.

>more SJW white genocide shit.
And I'm out. Literally a nazi conspiracy. And I do mean literally, that's where the idea of white genocide comes from and it's very easily debunked. Good chatting with you user but it's clear you have an ideological issue with this, not a medical one, so debating biology with you is a pointless endeavor.

Just curious, is there a drug that makes you asexual? not sexual. Like a robot. An abstract humandroid. Droid. droid. droid. droid. droid. I dont like repeating myself. Thats why I smoke weed ewweryday. Organic, asexual, good vegtable. As powerful as Vegeta's booby lol. Get it? Vegeta his booby lol. Like a vegtable. A vegan table, where they slice you into pieces and rearrange you for more delicious consumption. Because cockjuice is healthy for the diet.

>I wondered if I'd ask that. Until you apply the same expectation to the people I responded to I feel it's unfair to expect me to source
What a weird cop out, if the only standard you hold yourself to is that of the masses, you might aswell start using capslock. I didnt claim anything in this thread, Im just asking. If you dont want go beyond making claims great if not "oh well"
Oh and btw if you ask people to calm down, giving them something calming instead of just wild claims would be more productive.

Maybe it would, but as I said this is just a chat. We're on Sup Forums, I don't come here to be productive. Do you?
It's not a cop out I don't think, I was just saying we need to agree on how this discusion is framed. Either we're taking it seriously and all using citation, or we're slinging the shit. I know which I'd prefer.

Anyway I'm calling time, thanks for chatting anons. It's cool to agree to disagree and I appreciate you talking with me.

Its a secret way to remove white people from existence. most people that do this idiot shit is white. Soon the jews will rule the blacks in the new future coming. So prepare.

a lot of the idiots pushing this crap are people trying to virtue signal their way to appearing more progressive. Hopefully, there is a huge meltdown where this crap gets parents charged with fucking child abuse. Will it happen? Doubt it, but we can always hope.

As for the bullshit the trenders are pushing, you are right. Not just the transgender community hates this shit. The LGBT community hates it as well (I have friends who are gay, and abhor this shit.)

ok, you want to talk biology? Then what are the effects of these hormone blockers are crap in 20 years on someone's body? Will we see a new form of disease where people where given this shit from too young of an age? People who have developmental issues (physically)? That's the real question. One thing about messing with biology like this, we have no idea what the outcomes will be. Perhaps we will have the next generation who have to be constantly pumped full of artificial testosterone and HGH to make them develop any muscle mass.

What I find, is people under-value puberty way too much. Puberty is a huge change on the body. It causes mental and physiological changes in people, causes the building of muscle mass and has changes in the brain. This in the addition to allow your body to become sexually active. The real problem I have is these people don't understand the real biological problems.

I'm a tranny and I think this shit is dumb. A lot of us do.
Well no shit your just the most recent special interest group the neo-marxists have infiltrated. Now all you can do is wait untill they leave and impersonate another group.

Conspiracy nonsense

Lol, thanks for nothing then.

>ok, you want to talk biology?
No I don't, because your problem is ideological rather than biological. There is nothing I could say that'd change your mind.

Kek sorry I didn't meet your perfect standards. What will I do now? Guess I should hand in my Sup Forums gold account and go back to Gaia, I've disappointed some user in some shit tier psudo-intellectual thread
Actually I best just drink bleach. Night anons. Here's a video explaining my point better than I ever could
youtube.com/watch?v=bZe5J8SVCYQ

Are you alright? Should I send help?

I honestly wouldn't have much of a problem with transgender folk if they didn't try shoving it in people's faces all the time. Not necessarily pointing out "I'm trans" in relation to me being an intentional dick about trans people mind you, but more the "IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT ME FOR WHATEVER GENDER I DECIDE I AM TODAY YOU'RE A BIGOT NAZI ANTI-COMMIE " crowd. So yeah, basically the Tumblr/SJW crowd. Then again, every trans person I've ever dealt with in length has turned out to be crazy as fuck, so I'm likely going into this with some bias...

Oh i thought you had "called time". Why even bother making the post in the first place if futher questioning would just make you pissy?

> "IF YOU DON'T ACCEPT ME FOR WHATEVER GENDER I DECIDE I AM TODAY YOU'RE A BIGOT NAZI ANTI-COMMIE " crowd.
Honest question; when has anyone in real life ever expressed this world view to you? Not saying it never happens, but I do think it's so unrepresentative of trans people that's it's basically a non-issue.

ah, yes. the "your better than me because i am more progessive" argument. Nice try user... keep posting to tumbler about how you identify at this very minute

I'm not pissy, I'm having a great time. Aren't you having a great time? I'm having a great time.
I called time on my part in this discussion, I never said I was gonna leave.
Seems the only one with activated almonds is you desu

I didn't say that though, did I? I said you're framing your ideological issue as a biological one, so to debate biology would be a waste of both our times.

This is hilarious.

No im alright, just kidding. I dont smoke weed, just said random things. But I did hear a 9 year old boy talk about how he is going to get cut by the doctor with scissors as if he was going to get a haircut. No sexual awareness. And a younger boy in america whos dream is to be a mermaid. Mermaid dont have genitals. No sexual awareness.

Because the LGBT has a powerful political lobby and nothing will stop them from their goal of normalizing pedophilia.

All faggots are disgusting and should be exterminated for the good of the species.

Outside of our chat I posted two times asking for citations, so dont worry your not the only one, unable or willing to deliver the goods. I guess this is the typ of thread where nobody actually knows what they are talking about.

I think that the same rules about sexual consent should be set for stuff like this. If society says they are too young to form a romantic and sexual relationship then they are obviously to young to decide they are transgender and take drugs that later in life will destroy them.