/csg/ - Christian General: Daniel Edition

For all things Christian
Catholics and Protestants alike are welcome to discuss theology. Try to be polite.

Atheists also welcome, but try to be constructive.

Theme Song: youtube.com/watch?v=GmsiKo5deSU

Pastebin for believers and curious folk.

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Thank you for making these threads by the way aussie.

This is actually the first I've made, kek, but I appreciate your gratitude. I'm just glad that Christ/pol/ is a thing again.

There's been some fantastic conversations today! I wonder when the Czech guy got bored?

Yes, Elohim is in Genesis, but it's not called "Trinity", and does not define the features of the Godhead. It is not a coincidence that the first heresies in Chruch history denied the Trinity. They too went around saying "hurr durr where in da bible does it say dat?"

And you're a Christian and have faith in Christ *why*?

>Look at history. The Church always existed whereas every sect of protestantism is an off-shoot of the 1500 reformation
That's an appeal to tradition.

You haven't given me any reason to trust what you believe in is true that isn't an appeal to authority or tradition. You've only told me that you do believe it's true.

Hmmmm, a plural word for God, but used in the singular sense.

I wonder what that reminds me of.

And Who was hovering over the face of the deep again?

And Who is speaking?

And what was created without Jesus?

Good job, pawns. Keep setting up your brothers and sisters for us to knock us down like bowling pins, stupid goy.

>He hasn't read Revelation 2, 3, 19-22
laughingwhores.jpg

>And you're a Christian and have faith in Christ *why*?
I believe in his death and resurrection, I believe he is God. I have always believed in Him. I still remember when I was a little kid and I felt sad and alone, and I kept praying to God how much I love him.

>That's an appeal to tradition.
Not really. That's an appeal to reality. Historical events are not a matter of Church Tradition but are an objective reality.

>You haven't given me any reason to trust what you believe in is true that isn't an appeal to authority or tradition.
Appeal to the authority of Jesus is not a fallacy for me
Appeal to Sacred Tradition neither.
Either way both of these things are much more likely to be correct than just reading the Bible and coming up with your own interpretations in 2016

>You've only told me that you do believe it's true.
Well I am sorry Mr.Dawkins, but at a certain point you have to make a leap of faith. You will never be sure of anything 100%, that is what faith is about. The case for Catholicism though, I believe to be the strongest.

>Hmmmm, a plural word for God, but used in the singular sense.
sure but none of that implies all persons of the trinity are one hypostacy. Church Tradition defended our concept of the Trinity. You rely on their defence of it to justify the existence of the Trinity as we understand it. You simply refute all the other truths the Church gives to you.
>And Who was hovering over the face of the deep again?
>And Who is speaking?
>And what was created without Jesus?
You literally just saw a JW denying the trinity, and you are telling me it is super-obvious and even without the Church nobody would deny it? lmao.

>He thinks Revelation is canon
tippitytoppitykek.png

One of these days I'm gonna show your image to some of my Protestant friends and see if their heads explode.

Yes. We've already determined you do believe. I'm asking you for a *reason* to. I already know what my reason is, and it's far more honest than what you've been articulating.

You believe God is in the Heavens and Christ is God/the Son of God who sacrificed Himself for the sins of mankind, and that *all that happened* and you *KNOW* it happened (because you are saying you know) -BECAUSE- (______).

...

If you won't try to understand "faith" as the answer to a question for which "faith" is, in fact, the answer, discussion is sort of over.

>Either way both of these things are much more likely to be correct than just reading the Bible and coming up with your own interpretations in 2016
Actually they're not. It's illogical to just assert they are. Which is one of the reasons I rail on you Catholics so much - because you utilize horrifically wrong reasoning like that.

You don't have faith for no reason. You don't believe the sun is going to rise in the morning "just because".
Sorry bro - there's still shit you have to account for.

>Church Tradition

Guess what I consider the equivalent of your church's tradition.

They don't teach Revelation in Babylon, because it doesn't reflect well on Babylon.

so you are asking me this from a secular perspective. Answering that would require much more space and characters than are required on Sup Forums. I guess one way I could summarize is that everything about Christ is pure truth, pure way, pure life. Nothing about him was ever found to be wrong by me. You could say that I see no valid reason why I should not believe in Him. Also I love Him with every fiber of my being, and beyond any empirical proof that is good enough for me. I believe blindly those whom I love.

>Actually they're not
Your opinion is not a fact though.

I don't care what you consider.

Also pic related

I know, papist, I know.

Why didn't god just fly the eagles into hell to stop the devil?.

Then Aragorn would not be the revealed King, would he.

What if Zelda was a girl?

>Actually they're not.
It is not more likely that the understanding coming out of the time of the writing is correct than a 2016 interpretation?

Who was Lucifer and why did he fall?

He was created as the highest angel, a cherub in charge of the assembly of the angels, decked out in the finest robes, given the best jewels to wear, and equipped with the finest instruments.

Not good enough.

He wanted to place his throne above God's, and be worshiped as God.

The instant his sin crossed his heart, his coup failed, and he and 1/3 of the heavenly host under his command were damned.

I've lost my way. I'd say I lost my faith, but I still believe and try to live by the virtues and commandments.

I just can't stand the cronyism and corruption in the church.

Should I be a more observant Catholic and adhere to the church or should I maintain worship in my own way.

He was a Babylonian king mentioned in Isaiah 14:12.

You *believe* everything about Christ is pure truth, pure life, etc. I'm asking you why you do. Why believe that rather than that Punpun the kobold is responsible for you existence? I'm not asking from a secular perspective - I'm asking period.

I'm a Christian myself. I believe because I *WANT* to believe and thus choose to. I don't claim I know the whole Truth or even part of it - I only believe what I'm working with in regard to God is true (most of the Bible). What you do - and it's what I object to *all* Catholics* when they do - is try to claim you know something you can't *POSSIBLY* know and then assert that as the *ONLY* way to be as an illogical dogma. It's the height of hubris. It's intellectually horrific to witness you yell at people that you're right, and if they question you you simply assert *YOU JUST ARE*.

pic related

You should seek Jesus with an open heart, and find Him. You should confess out loud that He is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead.

You should do those things first.

>Your opinion is not a fact though
It's not my opinion. It's a fact that logical fallacies don't bring credibility or likelihood to the claims they're supposed to support. That's why they're fallacies.

He was the spiritual power over the Babylonian king mentioned in Isaiah 14, as he is the spiritual power over the King of Tyre mentioned in Ezekiel 28.

>I'm a Christian myself

>Says the deist.

Have you thought about the Catholic East?

No. As a matter of *FACT* they're not. Just like saying the theory of a geocentric universe is more likely today just because it experienced a longer history, it is not more likely that an old "understanding" of something is more likely than a new one just for having been around longer.

Kek

Don't you have a liquor store to rob, Jerome?

I don't claim that I am right, I claim that Jesus is. Everything about us comes from him.
>I WANT to believe
You make it sounds like you are forcing yourself to do so. I don't force myself, I believe because I believe in Truth. Those who hear Truth believe in it, and don't need to force themselves to do so.
The existence of God is self-evident, the only place in which I use my reason, is to discern between what on earth is a manifestation of God's Will and what isn't, i.e. to discern what is true Church Christ founded and what isnt'
>It's intellectually horrific to witness you yell at people that you're right
Give me a fucking break. Catholics don't care about your heresies. It is you who go around telling everyone that just need to repeat the formula "I believe in Jesus" and they are saved forever, but Catholics are destined to hell even if they believe in it because "muh whore of babylon". It is you who go around harassing others
youtube.com/watch?v=u7BQoNzBntg

>it's not my opinion
that fact that it is not just your opinion, is your opinion too

I'm white as the newly driven snow and have never butchered translating the bible utterly, person who believes the same thing the devil believes.

>Catholics don't care about your heresies.

Tell that to 68,000,000 murdered "heretics".

>muh 68 gorillion
you discredit yourself by parroting that bullshit

You are using a fallacious analogy. Textual exegesis isn't anything like astrology. The further we get away from the date of the text the less information we have to build on.

Anyone else here an ex fedora tipper that either converted or now understands the importance of Christianity?

Yup, in fact I was at one point a Zeitgeist evangelist hardcore fedora tipper.
I only look back at my teenaged years and cringe.

I don't know why that sounds to you like I force myself to believe, since it comes incredibly easily to me to do so. I also want to eat a gyro - I don't know how that would imply I'm forcing myself to want to eat a gyro.

You claim Jesus is right. I do too. The difference is I don't claim I *KNOW* 100% that *I* know what Christ says - I just believe I do in some degree. So I don't *KNOW* Christ is right, I just believe He is.

But Catholics aren't so humble. They claim, 100% - because that's what dogma means; something can't be incontrovertible if there's room for doubt - that they *KNOW* it all without any doubt.

Don't strawman me. Catholics are Christians, and they're not necessarily hellbound. Only Jerome here and a bunch of other retards thinks cucklics are necessarily hellbound.

She is

Me. I was the most fedora tipping athiest in the world. I dont genuinely believe in christ, but I wish I couls. However I still pray and practise Christian values.

Satan

Could*

>astrology
It has nothing whatsoever to do with dates. We consequently have more from the Greeks and Romans before the fall of Rome than we do for hundreds of years after. Time has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

You shame yourself by not knowing your own history.

>he thinks his Jew-inspired fairy tales are real

laughhingkikes.png

What do you Christians think of modern paganism in Europe?

>Catholics are Christians

>Dogs are Cats

>Apples are Oranges

Si

You're moving in the right direction. Don't quit.

Same. I really wish I wasn't such a skeptical person. Hoping to pick up a gold cross to wear pretty soon

Catholicism? Can't stand it.

Belief is kind of impossible if you conflate belief with knowledge or rationalization. Check out Kierkegaard bro

Don't quit. Quitters never win and winners never quit.

Interesting.

Just watched a short video which I really think highlights the case of the insufferable atheists vs your everyday Christians

I liked it so I thought I would share it

>youtube.com/watch?v=nqAco8a7vEE

What do you guys think? It's like a comment section come to life in video

When you believe something long enough, and you mature in your belief, it becomes knowledge.

It was always knowledge, but your doubt kept it as a belief.

See Jesus, not Kierkegaard.

The things written in Revelation aren't real... yet.

>Christian thread
>Theme song - Era
>Era
>Christian
No


This is the new theme
youtube.com/watch?v=_GWUW0W_xY4

>You claim Jesus is right. I do too. The difference is I don't claim I *KNOW* 100% that *I* know what Christ says
I believe 100% in what Christ said. I believe he protects the Magisterium from teaching error.
>They claim, 100% - because that's what dogma means; something can't be incontrovertible if there's room for doubt - that they *KNOW* it all without any doubt.
We believe without any doubt the dogma, of course. That is the point of having a dogma in the first place. We do believe that our understanding of the dogma is just as deep as our intellect allows it. That does not mean the dogma is a matter of opinion and you can change it to create heresy like protestants do.
>So I don't *KNOW* Christ is right, I just believe He is.
>But Catholics aren't so humble
The problem with your reasoning, is that you think you can define what Jesus said just by reading the Bible, without the help of apostolic tradition to interpret it correctly. That interpretation was passed down to the apostles to Jesus. So if you don't believe the Church you are pretty much saying you don't believe Jesus.

>You shame yourself by not knowing your own history.
pot calling the kettle black

*to the apostles by Jesus

They believe everything necessary for salvation. They just also believe a whole lot of other horse shit. Even Moses fucked up - didn't mean Moses was hellbound.

...

God bless you all.

>implying it ever will be real
>implying it wasn't the original Jewish revenge porn based on Jewish lies and fairy tales

top cuck

God bless. I don't think I'll ever go back to tipping. I'm probably gonna start going to church. Should I become protestant or catholic?

May God bless you too, user.

(You)

I know my own history; a history of not bending the knee to Rome, and eluding the genocidal maniacs unleashed by the Vatican.

"From the birth of Popery in 606 to the present time, it is estimated by careful and credible historians, that more than fifty millions of the human family, have been slaughtered for the crime of heresy by popish persecutors, an average of more than forty thousand religious murders for every year of the existence of popery."

-- "History of Romanism," pp. 541, 542. New York: 1871.


Clark’s Martyrology counts the number of Waldensian martyrs during the first half of the 13th century in France alone at two million. From A.D. 1160-1560 the Waldensians which dwelt in the Italian Alps were visited with 36 different fierce persecutions that spared neither age nor sex (Thomas Armitage, A History of the Baptists, "Post-Apostolic Times - The Waldensians," 1890). They were almost completely destroyed as a people and most of their literary record was erased from the face of the earth. From the year 1540 to 1570 "it is proved by national authentic testimony, that nearly one million of Protestants were publicly put to death in various countries in Europe, besides all those who were privately destroyed, and of whom no human record exists" (J.P. Callender, Illustrations of Popery, 1838, p. 400).

>yet
lmao

shouldn't this whore be servicing your Greatest Ally? I mean, you don't want her to be "cursed" by your sky daddy for "cursing" the Chosen People with blue balls, don't you?

>We do believe that our understanding of the dogma is just as deep as our intellect allows it
Then it wouldn't be a dogma. Because our intellect through reasoning necessitates doubt toward any and all premises in life more ambitious than "there are thoughts". Since, for all you know, you're living in the Matrix and everything you experience is more or less illusory. We can't escape from that doubt. And thus we can't have dogma that is consistent with reason.

They do not. They believe their membership, good standing, and baptism in the Roman Catholic Church, as well as their participation in rites and rituals such as the Eucharist and confirmation, equate to salvation.

They err as much as you do.

...

You should be born again in the Spirit and become a new creation in Christ Jesus; if you confess with your mouth, that is to say out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved (Rom. 10:9).

That was supposed to be astronomy, in reference to Geo vs heliocentric.

Dates matter a lot in exegesis. Contrary to your claims, the writings of 7th century Church Fathers are less in question than those of the 2nd. And the NT authors more so. The further back you go, the more you have to rely on supposition to fill in your exegesis. This is why the closers you are to the time of writing the better opportunity you have to understand it.

...

Satan

...

In my biased opinion you should become Catholic. Pray to God for guidance along with doing your own research. 4+3 chan xtian is a good place to ask questions also.

Read Romans 1

They do believe in that shit. They also believe in Christ as their Savior and Redeemer.
I think they're horribly wrong, but they're not necessarily without Grace, Jerome.

how will a pacifist religion like all flavours of Christianity ever recover in the West?

as an unbeliever watching from the sidelines for decades now I can clearly tell it's been losing bigtime since the sexual revolution and the relentless attack on nuclear family

Why did this happen to Lucifer.

pilpul:the infographic

>Catholics and Protestants alike are welcome to discuss theology.

I am a Protestant of the Reformed tradition, and I find your exclusion of our Orthodox brethren disturbing.

>-- "History of Romanism," pp. 541, 542. New York: 1871.
WOW such an unbiased source, I am #protestantmissile now

One episode is enough to let you understand why the Inquisition killed very few people. A woman was found guilty of marrying the devil, and she wasn't sentenced to death but exorcised and put for a couple of days in the public plaza to be shamed by the public.

Why do you have to go full retard everytime? You give me the impression that you purposedly act obnoxious.
Deepening our understanding of dogma does not mean changing it. To make an example, it's like you knew something is red, until you found out it is not just red, but a certain shade of red, let's say "dark red". You have deepened your understanding, not changed it.
We don't change dogma.

You should be Lutheran

We are to be persecuted and hated until we die. The end times will come someday soon I think. The church has reached all corners of the world and some have accepted it and others have rejected it. There is not much more to be done.

Nothing short of a tribulation of great magnitude will bring these people to Gods feet.

>The Church from which all others, including every protestant denomination, splintered from.
>Not Christian

Pick one.

I just copied the OP's text from the thread before this one, pls no bully.

"Less in question" does not say anything about the truth or validity of anything. It's an appeal to authority to suggest it does.
That's the issue, and it's what I've expressed enough already that you ought to have picked up on it.