What's a good argument against this or did I get BTFO

What's a good argument against this or did I get BTFO.

is this image true?

USA USA USA
THE MOOOOON
WE ARE #1
BACK TO BACK WORLD WAR CHAMPS
MUH GUNS
USA USA USA

American Liberalism teaches white guilt tho, so they kinda contradict themselves there.
They should ask themselves if White Americans should feel any guilt for slavery then if they can't have pride in accomplishments other people did.

APOLOGIZE FOR SLAVERY WHITE COUTNRIES

Oh Qatar is still practicing slavery well its fine cause its part of their culture :^)

Nationalism means loving your country while caring about your fellow countrymen AND doing whatever you can to improve both of them


Well, at least that what I think it means

This is actually a counter argument you can use when people try to make you feel guilty for African slavery in America

Really makes you think huh

first you'd have to give a good argument FOR nationalism and there isn't any other than muh feels

apologize for teh ottoman slavery oy vey :DD

Nationalism doesn't teach you to take pride in 'shit' you haven't done. I mean we should honor the people who fought and die for our countries, thoses who make us free and we should make a contribution to our country as well.

People who hate 'nationalism' are people too lazy to do something for others. And Nationalism doesn't teach you to hate people you've never met. I don't hate foreigners. But for liberals is so hard to understand that the borders are not create just because. Borders are a natural way of man to difference itself from places with different geography and culture. You should respect people from others countries, nationalism never say otherwise.

>American
>Education

I hate Canadians and I meet them on a daily basis.

What if you're proud of slavery? Literally the largest part of the American economy at one point was slaves.

Call them a liberal faggot that doesn't deserve to live in your country?

It just sounds weird to be proud of slavery. Imagine being born a slave...

>Reparations

>Teaches you to demand free shit from people who haven't wronged you and to hate people based on color whom you've never met

Then why are whites held accountable for shit they haven't done?

Stole my shit, faggot.

My people (and the Pritish, French, Spanish etc) completely rekt the entire continent with only a handfull of men. Kinda hardcore.

And evn with all the technology and wealth we have in today's world, the slave traders where the only people in history that where able to get a nigger to do his job

>we should honor the people who fought and die for our countries
>muh feelings

>we should make a contribution to our country as well
why not the world as a whole?

>People who hate 'nationalism' are people too lazy to do something for others
that's just fucking retarded

>And Nationalism doesn't teach you to hate people you've never met
it teaches you to put the people of the country you were born in above everybody else for no reason other than "you should"

it's identity politics to get sjw and blacks to vote for politicians

*British. Fucked that one up hard

It's pride in culture. And cultures do exist.

Nationalism is a love for your own way of life.

...

so if a turk or a paki is assimilated into your culture, you'd be ok with that and consider him your own?

To the absolute layman (read: leftist vampiric fucking shits), Nationalism could be gently summed-up as an intact nation-state with strong prevailing majority-identity (in any or multiple forms; cultural being easiest), in which the absolute number one priority is the well-being of the nation as a whole.

To counter the bumper-sticker argument, I would make the point that producing goods/services/technology/inventions in the nationalistic nation-state would contribute to the nation's well-being; pride can be placed in this contribution towards the greater whole.

Furthermore, it isn't hatred to place another's needs below your own. Attempting to maintain a good quality of life for citizens of the nation does not obligate hatred of non-citizens. Of course, the person I'd be arguing with is likely to vehemently disagree with this, and attempt to counter with flowery rhetoric of "but omg we're so lucky, we have to, like, HELP EVERYONE ELSE, why do you hate suffering people, etc etc"

If it gets to this point, I make it clear that we have too highly-differing ideological viewpoints and cannot consolidate them at this time.

Real shame, that last part happens quite a lot.

Yes

White hatred. Hating your white friend for things people did hundreds of years ago to people you've never met

Spot on

so if the whole world accepts one culture you'd be ok with removing borders?

Imagine a football team that pretends like they're all just guys that happen to be wearing the same colored shirts. What's their record like at the end of the season? Do they make the playoffs? Do they win the Super Bowl? A feeling of community makes a good team. In-group loyalty has value to a society, even though it is irrational if you are a nihilist. Of course if taken too far it can be bad, but we need to be on the same team.

WE ARE THE BEST
FUCK ALL THE OTHERS
IM GONNA SHOOT MY GUNS IN MY BACK PASTURE BECAUSE I HAVE LAND AND GUNS
EUROPE WILL NEVER BE THIS FREE
I CAN SAY NIGGER FAGGOT WITH NO CONSEQUENCES

Racial homogeneity is a good thing. Skin color and IQ are just as powerful predictors of economic well being as having low taxes and low regulations. Even libertarians must care about race.

Even if you don't feel pride about race, race still matters.

It's not about the past it's about the present.

>"Here son, take this car I built, and have pride in it and keep it in good condition so you can drive it for the rest of your life."

>"Ok, dad"

>"Oh wait I shouldn't have pride in things i didn't make myself, that doesn't make sense, I'm gonna abuse the shit out of this car."

We are all born slaves, friend. Our masters are just different. Mine's alcoholism

Really made me think. Thanks OP

That's correct. And will happen with cultural conquest. But conquest is met with defense. That's how it works. Until that day, it's a fight. So perhaps you should get over it and let evolution do it's work.

USA
USA
USA

I'm not him, but that's a helluva stretch.

"Removing borders" is hyperbole to anyone vaguely considering themselves nationalist, even if they would gladly take in fully-assimilated members of non-majority ethnic groups.

How did the hypothetical world accept this culture? Through conquest, at the point of a sword? Through some lofty species-wide epiphany?

You can't make a hypothetical strawman in which you claim that the entire world has somehow become monocultural (and likely assuming similar racial make-up after monoculture?) yet somehow numerous individual nation-states are present.

It just ain't externally reliable, man.

I understand what you're getting at, but there are far better ways to make the point.

You didn't get BTFO.
You're to be proud of the country you're born in because it raised you. It's an appreciation for the nation and what it did for you in a direct and indirect way and that you're able to give back.

You also don't get to choose your parents but you love your parents for what they did for you. Nationalism works the same way, just often not as direct.

Now just because you love your family doesn't mean to hate other families. Just that you want to protect what you love more dearly.

Since liberals love taxes so much I usually argue from there. Something along the lines of "don't you think the taxes you pay should go to help first the people who pay them, then everyone else?"

Another good one is strength of community, you can say "its impossible to help everyone around the world with our meager resources. We should concentrate on those next door. Put those people first and help them as best we can. Eventually we can expand our reach as we help each wider circle of neighbour." Liberals love appeals to emotion so this one usually gets at least a partial concession.

Overall stress the bits about helping those near you. De-emphasize taking pride in past accomplishments or history (since history means nothing to a liberal). Never bring up ostracizing others. Simply say that you wish to "focus inward" and "accomplish meaningful change at home before focusing on problems abroad"

Remember. You will never change their mind in one argument. Make your language palatable to the liberal mind so they feel like they are supporting their own ideology while accepting your points. This also helps when arguing with someone with an audience. Appearing even handed and polite makes you easier to agree with.

Through globalization, which is what's going to happen.
People watch the same movies, play the same games, read the same books. At one point they start realizing that there's really not much difference between them and assume one identity and homogenize. Racial make-up won't matter as long as cultural identity is the same.
It's hundreds of years away, but it's inevitable.

Good post.

While it is easy to be mindful of manners and decorum in a debate or discussion setting, it AIN'T at all easy to do what you rightfully suggest.

I just want to brutally eviscerate leftist "arguments" with logos; not goddamn appeal to emotion.

I think there's a chance that many people highly disillusioned with the concept of nationalism have had their only perceived taste of it through 9/11 reactionary movements and policies. They'll relate every bit of it to George Dubbya and the wars in Trashcanistan and elsewhere if possible.

So you put Argies in the same level as Russians, brits and Americans? If so then you're a disgrace to your country.

I will never do such thing, why? Because I can't relate to your culture, I'm not russian, I don't understand shit about what you people say or do, and if I go for a month to your country I would miss my country. If you go to let's say.... Nigeria, will you put them in the same level as Russians? You can't actually believe that culture are all the same, and borders protect the difference and the diversity of cultures wich also create nationalism.

Was about to post something similar to this.

I'm a proud American in the same way I'm proud to be in my family.

Sure, my family isn't perfect and there's bad blood at times but we always circle the wagons and stand up for each other when someone else starts shit.

America isn't perfect but I'll go to great lengths to defend it.

>Through globalization, which is what's going to happen.
>People watch the same movies, play the same games, read the same books. At one point they start realizing that there's really not much difference between them and assume one identity and homogenize. Racial make-up won't matter as long as cultural identity is the same.
>It's hundreds of years away, but it's inevitable.
This is all true. The problem lies in governmental bodies attempting to manipulate this result sooner than we will naturally move to it. Worse yet, for reasons of money and power. The globalists ultimately are setting back globalism in the most innocent sense of the word.

...

> you shouldn't take pride in shit you didn't do.
> you should be blamed for the shit others did when enslaving people

>fugging rare, bae.

Sup Forums is actually a microcosm of what natural globalism progression is like. Many of us are from different cultures, yet we have the same subculture. Given time, this subculture could turn into a main culture, etc.

You've got a salient point, especially evidenced extreme permeation of US media in nearly all markets. France was just about the last nation to make a huge stink about all the American media being consumed in the 90s, but they seem to have given it up as well.

I do not believe it to be inevitable, though.

Myself, I'm eager (although uselessly since I'll almost certainly be worm food by then) to see at least small-scale satellite/asteroid exploitation/colonization before complete globalization occurs.

Goddamnit, I'm not even happy with a nationalist, sovereign nation. I want a fucking planet or moon!

I guess there's no need for black nationalism which is even more retarded because they have not a single black country on earth to be proud of.

Ethiopia gave Italy quite a trouncing with their own firearms twice in the 20th century.

It WAS Italy, but I imagine they'll take what they could get.

Only thing I hear is literal WE WUZ KANGS shit, tho.

Problem with societies that aren't nationalist to a certain extent is that they can be easily infiltrated, co opted, taken over or destroyed by outside forces that don't share similar views. It's all well and dandy to be peaceful, respectful and tolerant towards each other so long as it is mutual. But when an outside force comes in that is diametrically opposed to your way of living, you best be ready to band together with like minded countrymen to fight, or be forced to live by the whims of another group and or even be erased entirely.

Also it could be said in a way nationalism is about real multi-culturalism, preserving the unique traits of different peoples and cultures and protecting the weak & vulnerable of each respective society... Rather then living in a borderless, cultureless, cut throat global society where people are forced to compete in global markets against the lowest common denominator in a downward spiral into abject slavery and poverty and kept placated by cheap alcohol, porn, television, video games and drugs of every kind to make them comfortably numb.

Fuck...

liberalism teaches you to feel guilty about shit you never did and love people you know nothing about

They'll relate every bit of it to George Dubbya and the wars in Trashcanistan and elsewhere if possible.
Or god forbid Godwin's Law it.

It can be quite difficult to twist logical arguments toward emotional appeals sometimes. Very hard to do with things like welfare, when essentially the conservative stance is "sometimes you can't help people."

The best technique is always to turn a typically right wing policy so that it makes sense in a liberal context. My favourite and the easiest to do this with is Affirmative Action. Liberals always love AA, until you point out its essentially benevolent racism. Saying that blacks are unable to make it on their own so they need the white man's government to make people hire them.

Ethiopia was a source of Black Nationalism until post-WW2 when Selassie went crazy and got rid of all the wartime leaders and reverted the country's modernization movement.
Also they didn't view themselves as "African" but rather Semetic which rubbed American blacks the wrong way.

>Also it could be said in a way nationalism is about real multi-culturalism, preserving the unique traits of different peoples and cultures and protecting the weak & vulnerable of each respective society.

I suppose then the biggest issue then is how to react to react to the exchange of ideas between cultures and, in that, what we are to preserve.

Too bad Ethiopians are like half arab and have about as much relation to west African nigger slaves as a Russian does to a Spaniard. This coupled with the fact that Ethiopia still sucks ass should be enough evidence that you can't mix up blacks genetics enough to make them a people worth remarking on

It's better than being ashamed of things you didn't do, and giving your country to people you'll never meet

/thread

R A R E
A
R
E

Gandhi was a nationalist. all those dindus that made africa...also nationalists. Mustafa Kemal...nationalist. Tell them to pick up a book and read about it before opening their mouth. That's not what nationalism is.

ALL moral/political arguments are muh feels. More news at 11.

You ask the question "can black people have pride in their race without having hatred for another race?" A leftist would have to answer yes to this, which you subsequently show the parallel between the question and this shitty "argument."

But, of course, leftists have issues with cognitive dissonance and will do all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify their bullshit anyway.

yup

And leftism tells you to be ashamed of shit you haven't done and love people you've never met.

Everyday is opposite day for them

This, my fellow Dutchman.

Wanting a better life.

Moving to another country might be hard, you won't have the same opportunities, you won't be treated the same and you would have to change and adapt to the local customs. Unless of course that country is Sweden. There the opposite happens.

Loving my country, fighting for it, wanting it to do better than other countries and doing something about that would result in a better life for me.

>"if i can't take pride in things i never did then how can i be responsible for things i never did? like slavery? bye bye white guilt, adios reparations."

"why not the world as a whole" i thought about it, every day i do the same i even managed to recopilate and resume a lot of basic knowledge but i´ve seen, read and experienced so many shit and the world is just like the agent Smith from the Matrix stated, NATIONALISM makes you respect the doctor and the farmer equally because they make your country run.
An example: my city was builded by spaniards (prisoners, adventurers, pirates, researchers, farmers,etc) and they expelled the natives from the main city, they forged their own culture, language (hybrid thing that a few keep in our families that resemble the bonds in mafia families), they created hundreds of awesome dishes and they were faithful to Spain and also very racists; these europeans misfits created these weird mixed city and we were ahead in these country by far.
Now the guys that were expelled are coming back erasing our beloved costumes, destroying our trees, crops, polluting, erasing our dances (ancient BUT WE RESPECT THESE COSTUMES BECAUSE THEY WERE BORN IN OUR HIGHLAND OR IN OUR COAST), they molest girls, they bring criminals, drunk sick guys, prostitution (diseases), t change our dishes; we were raised with euro standards thanks to the catholics, it´s the only place where you can drink tap water but "they steal water and electricity, you could (it´s changing thanks to "them) walk with your iphone or w/e in the streets without caring but it´s changing.
Our ancestors set the mark and we must surpass it.
There´s a beatiful Hitler speech out there talking about nationalism and we got there just by "social evolution"
We (the halfbred, white citizens) are respected and feared in our country because we are better, we know it and they know it.
That pride is also passed onto our copper friends who also identify as citizens and we try to improve our city.
There´s racism and spheres but i can´t explain how we get along.
Hate? We respect the germans even when "they" lied about the "holocaust"

It was probably made by someone who's country is irrelevant.

>LIBERALISM
>TEACHES YOU TO TAKE PRIDE IN SHIT YOU HAVEN'T DONE AND HATE PEOPLE YOU'VE NEVER MET

Nationalism is evolutionarily beneficial. I'm sure there were, at times, groups of humans that didn't believe in nationality.

Those groups didn't survive.

That's very good to be honest, learny from the mistakes from the past and move on so you wont make them again.

The past is dead, it was done by another people in another time, let it rest.

>take pride in shit you haven't done
Sounds like dindus

How about if you say them to some actual people, and not just yourself or a webpage?

Fallacy. Just because Qatar still does it doesn't mean past indiscretions are exempt from criticism.

Nice try beanlord.

Really makes you think, huh?

so first off- "take pride in shit you haven't done. "so i guess he's saying that it's stupid how people are proud of national achievements.

nationalism places a heavy emphasis on national achievement so that people are inspired to contribute to the general will. if people want to make society better and be good citizens then society will be strong. also, i've noticed nationalists places an emphasis on taking pride in what your ancestors did for you. it's important because this reinforces the value of family. this value is important for many reasons, but taking pride in what your ancestors did for you shows you how important it is to provide for your own children. children are a person's stake in the future of a society, the anchor that makes their contribution to society meaningful.

secondly- "and hate people you've never met" in my opinion, this is one of the flaws in nationalism. there are ups and down to this, of course. let's be historically minded, however. people have never had such a big surplus of resources as we do now. there is little need to fight over resources. but in the olden days, people had to fight over resources to benefit the general will. as Ragnar Redbeard says, "the only natural law is tooth and claw." the only thing that will determine whether or not your family eats is how hard you fight. so nationalists prepared their nation to fight.

...

Point out Scotland and the existence of open and inclusive civic nationalism. It's not about "taking pride in shit you haven't done and hating people you've never met", it's about controlling the affairs of a group of people with similar culture and political viewpoints locally instead of handing control elsewhere.
Nationalism in the republics that broke away from the USSR is also a good example.

Now, there's a degree of arbitrariness to it - but that's true of nearly everything. When you have the building blocks of a nation culturally and politically, and are consistently outvoted by a larger segment of people with differing views, an amicable decision to be two different countries is preferable to union. [Autonomy is, in a sense, a result of regionalism which is closely linked to nationalism.]

Now, you may not agree with Scottish nationalism in that specific case. A lot of Sup Forums considers it cuck nationalism because the civic nature of it makes it more about identifying yourself as Scottish than being Scottish born [for various reasons both political (To counter "Little Scotlander" accusations, as are oft leveled at English nationalists.) and cultural (Scotland has traditionally been a nation with an Emigration problem, not immigration.)], but it serves as a good example case for "If you think all nationalism is Nazi-style, you're a moron."

The SNP's leader in the House of Commons is English born. How's that for small minded isolationism?

Nationalism doesn't really mean that you take pride in your country. All it means is that the people of a country are inherently connected to it. This is a fundamental principle of liberal democracy.

Why take pride in your family? That's a coincidence too, you can't choose your family.
Or taking pride in decisions in life where we actually don't have that much control over, like having rich parents and getting to choose which university you're going to attend, if your parents were poor you couldn't make that decision.

Wow. I hope Putin has you locked up.

>take pride in things you haven't done is wrong,
>ergo, take responsibility in things you haven't done is wrong
ok, fine by me
>genocide? I'm not responsible, those guys in graves did it

The people in the Netherlands (the indigenous) are genetically closely related, and thus we are like one big family and that is why society is still working.

However, when you bring in outsiders like Africans and Middle Easterners who are genetically so far apart and different, they don't fit in the family. And then your family falls apart because of domestic violence

Reading this thread, seems like Egyptian Nationalism is only one that's geography based, it's not about the culture, the people, or history (well, some history, but it's not the prime source of pride), it's all about the land/country you're born in, some Egyptian nationalists even hate Egyptians, is that odd?

Nationalism is almost the only driving force of humanity and has taken control of evolution

Theres nothing wrong with loving the country you live and wanting to see it prosper, also immigrants stink.

That's not nationalism.

Well, i'm not nationalist so i don't care.

Nationalism isn't about hating other peoples

And you are allowed to take pride in being part of something bigger than yourself, dont let the cucks pull you down to their self-hatred

Time flies, water flows, and when the sun rises in the morning you're still a nigger faggot.

>200 million with an annual increase of 2 million
>germany cant tell the difference between numerical and percentage based statistics

nation (nation state) was invented 100 years ago
before that was empires, and before that kingdoms, feudalism..

Hang on, I think I have a bag of fresh fuck you's somewhere in here just for you.

No. The law remains, which is why they come here. They want out pride? They follow our rules.

Looking at that map, it's actually incredibly amusing they didn't use something more like pic related [but shown globally.]

If you want to make nationalism look silly, you'd include every nationalist movement you could find no matter how unlikely it is to ever succeed or how tenuous a "nation" it covers. [The Scottish Islands, for example, have almost zero chance of actually seceding, regardless of what happens vis-a-vis Scotland and the UK. Even then they seek status more along the lines of the Falklands than of a true nation.]