Was Batman V Superman simply too deep for modern audiences to understand?

Was Batman V Superman simply too deep for modern audiences to understand?

Batman v Superman is what happens when a grown man who used to unironically recite Edgar Allan Poe to women at age 14 becomes a major Hollywood director

>superhero films
>deep and complex
I bet you think Nolan is the pinnacle of cinema you pleb faggot

>what happens when a grown man who used to unironically recite Edgar Allan Poe to women at age 14
More info?

No, it is just shit.

The only people who defend it are either contrarians, retards, baiters or 14 year olds who came to Sup Forums from r/DC_Cinematic.

Before someone replies with 2DEEP4U, remember this- a real film wouldn't end with some boring 20 minute fight against a CGI cave troll.

its pretty average but some how most of the criticisms are from people who clearly didn't pay attention to the film.

>inb4 film critics
most of them are idiots who have never studied film

Yes, even the entry level symbolism flew over 95% of the GA heads.

This movie is not even a pleb filter, it's more like a pleb barrier

>film literally makes explicit references to Plato's allegory of the cave
>plebs complain about 'not muh batmans'

I never thought it would be possible for a capeshit movie to expose every pleb and hack film critic.

A question for all the 'not muh batman' haters, does bats wear a black or white hat in this movie? Is it the story of the villain batman taking on the hero superman, or the hero batman taking on the villain superman? I think most people actually think it is the later, hence why they can't comprehend batman acting differently.

>Plato's allegory of the cave

How come every thread is infested with this? I went to a public high school in Europe and we did it in third grade in Philosophy 1.

too deep under a pile of shit, maybe

The source material was never meant to be that serious business in the first place. Nolan and Friends are doing it wrong.

If you use the word "contrarian," you're literally an idiot. It's a concept invented by idiots with reddit sensibilities who are too fragile to deal with criticism of mediocre media that has widespread appeal.

It's a troubling manifestation of millennials' mental weakness. Seriously, the only people who would even entertain any "argument" involving the concept of being "contrarian" are weak, lazy idiots who can't deal with criticism substantively.

If it bothers you that much that people criticize mediocre mass-marketed work designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, like Star Wars, Breaking Bad, pop music, etc., you should find a safe bubble and stay there. Or kill yourself.

Nah religious symbolism is the laziest tool you can use into tricking people to think your films are deep and complex, sad thing is Snyder couldn't be subtle

funnily enough there wasnt even that much religious symbolism in the film, so you just proved op coorrect

>recite based Poe to woman
How the fuck is that a problem ?

I give this meme a 5/10. Better than the actual movie.

>be retarded
>movie comes out that's on your retarded level
>everyone not retarded rightly bashes it
>say people were too retarded to get it

>"Superman was never real. Just the dream of a farmer from Kansas"

Wasn't Jor-El the one who wanted Supes to be all super in the first place? Pa Kent was telling him to hide his power level all the time.

This.

Third grade is high school?

Can someone explain Lex Luthor's ending to me? Why/how do the warden and the guard disappear and then Batman is there? How does Batman disappear? Did that actually happen or was it a hallucination?

It was careless filmmaking

How can normal audiences even comprehend this?

You need a PhD in philosophy to understand the final battle between a troll from The Hobbit and characters from picture books made for children.

Exactly

Pure kino

>go to comic book store
>friends with owner, nice guy
>start discussing movies, bring up BvS
>ask what he thought of it
>"it's too dark! Superman should be happy!"
>mfw

that looks good when you dont use a slowed down gif.

Regardless that hardly the aspects people are talking about

>liking capeshit
What are you 12, watch some real films

So what exactly happened theres been pretty decent threads about the film for the past few weeks now, and then as soon as the WW trailer dropped, which admittedly didnt look that great, the threads become flooded with retards again.

Now over at Sup Forums theres a single faggot who keeps making anti dceu threads almost daily and keeps getting caught out, is the same faggot here or something?

Every Marvel movie ends that way though

>Religious symbolism everywhere makes it super deep, I swear guys. My mom told me.

The biggest problem with the movie is the half assed motivations that got the main plot going. Batman has beef with Superman because he's super powerful, but instead of it coming off as him trying to protect the world, it comes off as Batman being jealous of Superman. Superman's beef with Batman is that Batman is a murder because he brands the villains and they get murdered in jail. That whole branding premise was stupid. You'd think how you got caught would matter in prison more than your actual crime? Hell there probably would be a gang of Batman branded thugs who would be plotting Batman's death. I mean that's how you get villains and super-villains.

Yes, modern audiences only like reddit-tier stuff.

He's right tho.

deal with it dcuck

>he thinks there's a single person on the entire website that doesn't like the DLCEU
What makes DLCEU fans so retarded and paranoid?

Go to fucking reddit or tumblr if you want a hugbox you faggot.

>slowed down gif.

too deep in shit maybe.

it's a good movie
stop denying it

I think he was referring to himself as the farmer and not Pa Kent

deal with what? mild annoyance?

Are Marvel fans illiterate then because thats not what i said.

The person keeps getting caught out because they keep replying to their own treads and always use the same type of language. Its pretty simple to spot.

Now im not going to say you're dumb, but you are pretty dumb.

>pa kent was telling him to hide his power level

Did you watch the film?

it is though, well webm anyway

Pa Kent never said to never use his powers, he just told him to consider letting kids die to avoid possible problems for his personal life.

A real american hero, putting individualism over collectivism.

Too bad Superman is leftist propaganda to the core

Never thought of it that way... but consider this, he says he's "righting wrongs for a ghost" right before he talks about Superman not being real. Could he be talking about Pa Kent or Jor-El?

>"You have to keep this side of yourself a secret."

Did Pa Kent not tell young Clark this in MoS?

Nah not really

>source
>actual superman comics

So much this. There are levels of detail and nuance in this movie that have taken people months to fully appreciate.

>leftist

You're confusing DC with Marvel

>he's never read Kingdom Come or Red Son

Batman isn't jealous. He's obsessed with revenge. He holds Superman responsible for the deaths in Metropolis in general and his own "extended family" of employees in particular. He justifies his vendetta by talking up the potential threat a being like Superman poses, essentially buying into the same sort of fear-mongering Lex spews to vilify him.

Superman thinks Batman is crossing the line by taking the law into his own hands, resorting to torture, and turning a blind eye to the fates of those he brands. Superman is only vaguely aware of how important(and fragile) public perception is and doesn't fully grasp the importance of defining himself and his beliefs, thinking that simply being himself is enough. Ultimately Lex has to force an escalation on Superman's part to even take him into full-on, if reluctant "war" with the Batman.

Lex manipulates them both behind the scenes by painting Superman as being responsible for war atrocities that Lex himself was responsible for and a smear campaign through his puppet media outlets, banking on it fueling Bruce's desire for revenge and appealing to his very real paranoia and xenophobia. He wants an "alien menace" that he can step in and save us from, and when Superman refuses to play ball, he drags out the corpse of Zod to play the part.

Now make the following replacements:
Bruce - post 911 America
Superman - mainstream "moderate" Islam
Lex - the military-industrial complex
Zod - Al Qaeda
Doomsday - ISIS

This is what the movie's about from an allegorical perspective. Throw in Wonder Woman representing the past and rematch that "meaningless" final boss fight. It's the winning strategy for dealing with the latest incarnation of Islamic Extremism.

Here endeth the lesson.

Yes

Did it have some slippery subtext going on?
Yes
Was it deep?
Depends on how old you are.

He is talking about both Pa Kent AND Jor-El. Both dads had the same aspiration for him, for him to be a great man. But they were both protective of the outside world telling him HOW to be a great man. Jor-El didn't want Krypton to dictate his role in society. Pa Kent didnt want religious fanatics or politicians to tell him how to be a great man. Thats why he tells him to hide his power levels as a kid.

>He thinks he absorbed everything in a Snyder movie

Pleb filter working as intended, move along.

I made a fan edit where I used the ultimate edition as the base and did the following alterations.

>Cut out the scene where Clark talks to his dad
>Spliced the scene where Martha is kidnapped to after Bruce puts on the signal
>Cut Lex's speech in front of the library committee

And it flows much better

he is right and knows his shit

>the scene where Clark talks to his dad
I'm 99% sure that this scene contractually had to be there because they had Pa Kents actor paid up expecting a MoS2 to be the next DCEU movie

>funnily enough there wasnt even that much religious symbolism in the film

It's literally the only "symbolism" Hack Snyder is capable of

elsewhere universe tales

In the context of the film, a happy, quippy Superman would be a mess. The film is about Lex feeding the media hit stories on the guy

it's a great movie.

Most people here are actually too stupid to appreciate it, no offense, not saying bvs is for genious only but it requires an iq of at least 100

no if you like it you're stupid

Jonathan Kent: And I don't blame you, son. It'd be a huge burden for anyone to bear; but you're not just anyone, Clark, and I have to believe that you were... that you were sent here for a reason. All these changes that you're going through, one day... one day you're gonna think of them as a blessing; and when that day comes, you're gonna have to make a choice... a choice of whether to stand proud in front of the human race or not.

Kingdom Come is intentionally a story about the then in-canon Superman, just in the future. But even outside of that, Golden Age Superman threatened politicians and beat up mobsters. Silver Age Superman would get petty and jealous at fucking everything (he got jealous of tiny Supermen he shot out of his hands). Bronze Age Superman killed Zod.
Read some comics kiddo, Superman has a whole wide range of emotions and modes.

read

You're so full of shit. You just think it is because you're not perceptive enough to see what else is in there. People talk about "entry-level symbolism" then proceed to prove just how entry-level they are themselves by picking up only the most overt imagery, then double down by interpreting it incorrectly.

Yes. Modern audiences want quips and brain-dead fun. They don't like a story that moves past morning cartoon tropes.

>Modern audiences
so your average pleb in le '80s was a philosopher and a kìno critic while le today's generasion is full of mindless sheeple?

Still trying to perpetuate this bullshit? Too smart or not it was a failure at what it set out to do, all the symbolism in the world don't fix terrible screenwriting.

In the same way a roach motel is a roach barrier

It wasn't even deep. It was just more than a generic origin story or villian-of-the-week trash. Audiences hate taken outside of their comfort zones.

>Too smart or not it was a failure at what it set out to do

??? No, it was a great success at what it set out to do

Quick Sup Forums. Snyder just called you and he's crying over the phone. You have to tell him how you would have improved BvS or he might try to commit suicide. He'll fail though since he is that much of a mess but his parents will find out he talked to you earlier so they might blame you.

>??? No, it was a great success at what it set out to do
In what way, world or reality? It didn't sell millions of toys, it almost didn't get its money back, it mined all hopes for the DCEU and it couldn't even properly tell a story.
But hey I guess that you can reach and say that it's really about post 9-11 US foreign policy right? That means it's a success.

Was this an attempt at humor?

It told its story better than most capeshit. Why do I feel like the people who are most vocal towards BvS are the same people who turn around and then unironically enjoy shit like Civil War and Dr Strange?

>b-b-b-b-but disney
Every time

I take it as an admission then.

Admission of what? That you're hardwired to see an entire segment of a huge industry whose purpose is to sell toys as some idiotic brand war?

Admission that people who are so critical of BvS apparently awful storyline have no issues eating the crap Marvel shits down their throats in the form of Civil War, Avengers 2 and Dr Strange.

I know it's as funny as seeing someone fuck up a movie with Superman and Batman in it.

But that's the thing, I haven't said anything about disney and you keep bringing it up.
BvS failing to tell a story properly won't be fixed with all the comparisons in the world, especially comparing it to lowest common denominator toy catalogues made by disney, WB is supposed to be trying its own thing.

And BvS is indeed its own thing. You can raise the Marvel criticism at SS. But BvS is a unique superhero movie. And you have provided no argument why the screenwriting is bad. Taking the Ultimate Cut into consideration, it's perfectly coherent and well-paced.

And it had a lot more story to tell.

>Kal I sent you to earth in order for you to forge your own destiny and be your own man, now do what I tell you and put this cape on and save those earthlings

I'm not at all surprised to see your question ignored. I know what role Bruce was playing and I know why. It nods at comic book history while commenting on it. It is brilliant on many, many levels.

>ultimate cut
Why is this allowed? Why do I have to buy a blu-ray to watch the cut of the movie that makes sense? Does it fix Lex knowing who Clark Kent and Bruce Wayne are out of nowhere? Does it fix Lex's server being behind a crystal door without a lock? Does it fix an American news network showing live footage of some building in Mexico burning down? Does it fix Lois knowing that they needed the spear with no indication of her change of mind whatsoever? Does it fix the 20 minutes long big dumb CGI ending or how they interrupt the movie to promote upcoming movies?

>Does it fix an American news network showing live footage of some building in Mexico burning down?
Jesus nitpicking Christ.

This is one of those moments where "turn your brain off bro" is acceptable.

It is a defining moment in Lex's party and it establishes the entire montage that follows, couldn't it make sense? They could have done it with the rocket exploding and it would make more sense.

Why would an American channel be unable to air live internationally? They do it all the time.

>Hi this is Linda for CNN live from a burning building in buttfuck nowhere that we happen to be reporting as it happens

Movies were better written and directed back then simply because they weren't made for the chink audience

Yes? Have you honestly never seen the news air live in say Middle East?

Do you have to see how he found out Bruce and Clark's identities to buy that he had the resources and the will to do so?

Does the fact that he *wanted* Bruce to steal that info have to be spoken aloud for you to surmise that as his intent?

If it had been a fire anywhere else, would you even be nitpicking it?

Did they not literally show her change of mind when she sees something fall from the sky, sees the fight coming her way, and hears an inhumanly loud roar? In a world where unnatural things from the sky = Krypton, a kryptonite spear strikes me as something nice to have handy.

That CGI fight was great. If you didn't like it, that's on you. Those "promos" are the final piece of the puzzle revealing what Lex's long-term plans really were.

They finally give us a villain that's legitimately smart, manipulative, ruthless, and secretive, and plebs like you reject it because you're either too dumb or too cynical or too lazy to put the pieces together without someone else doing it for you, then you add insult to injury by calling those same people delusional out of petty jealousy and to protect your fragile little ego and unwarranted sense of intellectual superiority.

tl; dr: suck a dick. You're not worth any more of my time.

You know, for some reason I'm reminded of what Jor-El told Lara at the beginning of MoS:

>Lara Lor-Van: He will be an outcast. They'll kill him.

>Jor-El: How? He'll be a god to them.

Sometimes I wonder if Jor-El's true intention to send Kal to Earth was to rule over humanity as a god. Just a theory.

>all this reaching and explaining plotholes by assuming things that are never established nor shown
>this is somehow smart screenwriting only dumb people don't get
Thanks for not wasting more of my time

>too deep
>implying depth is quality

Things can be over thought, or overly detailed and just plain fucking boring.

You got BTFO for your obnoxious incorrect nitpicking. No need to feel shame over it. Just accept it.

And they are shit. What's your point?

The movie fucking ruled, when all the Marvel movies just keep trying to ape Whedon's style Snyder had the audacity to make a film combining his own style and Frank Miller's.

Yeah, you're right. Shallow films are obviously more your speed.

>tfw WB said it might be too smart before it was even released.

>tfw they were so fucking right.