Is there more than two genders?

Is there more than two genders?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_goose_breeds
apa.org/practice/guidelines/transgender.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=OTVjY-VUERA
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

ARE*

"Are" there...

And the answer is bo.

Is you retarded?

yes , there is male , female and defective.

Why is this even a question?

Some native American tribes had five genders.

Bullshit

corrects then makes a mistake huehuehue

are there more than two people who still give a shit?

no

/THREAD

Yeah. It's called mentally disabled.

No

Gender isn't really a scientific term outside of modern psychology.

There's basically two sexes. That's all you need to know.

And that's why they live on reservations now.

Hey Guys,

Famous Youtuber Dick McJackass here. This topic reminds me of a current debacle or "Pickle" i find myself inside of..
Looking for a fun counter proteest to do at my university since all kindsa fuckers keep bitching about shit in mobs here. We've had it all, the fags the Dems, the tight ass christians, I want to fuck with them while parodying protests in general. Best Idea I will put together and film at the Academic Plaza. Obviously i don't want to go to jail but I will upload the vid if yall come up with sumpin good enuff

What do yall want?

gender is a spectrum.
So either there are no genders, or infinite genders, whichever you prefer.

If you mean biological sex, there are more than 2 (from a genetics perspective). XX and XY are most common, but the term "intersex" covers a variety of alternatives like XXY (which occurs in 1 in 500 to 1000 males).

Gender is an amalgamation of biological sex, cultural beliefs, internal psychological experience, and external expression. So it's pretty complex.

Also anyone that disagrees with this is an idiot.
This isn't liberal bullshit. It's basic first year medical science. If you don't like it, thats great. Never go to a hospital, never use drugs, and pray your sicknesses away. You can't pick and choose your science.

Yes, There are 4 accepted genders in Earth biology. Male and Female are present in nearly every species, on top of that there is hermaphroditic and self propagating. Note in Humans Male and Female are the only two possibilities without major genetic mutation.

Yes, the list of ganders is quite long
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_goose_breeds

Is there more than two genders when you grow your weed plants? No.

/thread

...

No. OP’s place is in

He said Genders not Ganders
**cute half frustrated smile**
**laugh track**

You spelled no wrong. If you are going to correct someone than you should not also make a mistakes.

No, genders don't exist, they are just an idea, like having a soul, existence of a god, the purpose of life or "true" comunism working.

'no'*

Are you just acting retarded on purpose or actually just plain dumb.

>also make a mistakes.

Who fucking cares? If a person I used to call a he wants to be called xhe and wear a skirt that shit ain't my business

>make a mistakes

>he
Assuming my gander

Well sure, there are poor bastards who got the real short end of the genetic stick and were born with XXY chromosomes. They're exceedingly rare though, thankfully. But, for their sake alone, I'd advocate for an "other" box when it comes to reporting your sex.

And I mean sex. Because the distinction that gender is something different than your sex is fucking bullshit.


If you want to broaden your scope past humans, oh hell yeah, there's some freaky deaky shit when it comes to sex out in the animal and plant kingdoms. asexual, hermaphrodites, frogs that switch back and forth, dudes that carry the child till birth, dudes that pretend to be chicks so they can cuck the dude behind his back with his other mates. Biology gets into some FREAKY shit.

I think what you meant to say is:
"I didn't get a post-secondary education and science is scary, please don't post it on the forum that lets me make fun of people to feel better about myself"

sorry bro. grow up. get educated. get a life.

What you call a spectrum is better termed as sexual identity, gender is derived directly from genetics.

from my understanding of medical history "sex" was used to refer to biological sex. And gender (a term that has existed for many years) was popularized by feminists in the 70s in reference to "gender roles" which were different from biological sex. At least in the west (us, uk, canada, western europe). I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of history may debate me on that though. Never really looked into it.

When people use the term gender today in academia, it is NOT referring to biological sex.

LOGGIES

Yet in many places birth certificates read gender not sex. This is one of the causes of the heated debates the we see now.

Pick one:
>There are two genders, therefore feminism is obsolete since you can choose your gender.
>There's only two genders, therefore the whole idea of multiple genders is one big farce.

Canada lists it as sex on IDs and birth certificates. As does most of the US I think.
No idea about other countries.

But a lot of people argue sex shouldn't even be listed, because it doesn't take intersex people into account (people with genetics other than XX/XY) and some intersex people don't know their actual sex until later in life (usually around puberty).

Additionally a lot of people conflate gender and sex together (in a lot of aspects of life outside of ID as well). So trans individuals often ask for the right to change their "sex".

The downside is that even if you are trans, your birth-sex is important info for doctors.

So it's deff a complex issue.

It depends, I suppose on your definition of gender and if you're asking in general or about in humans in particular. There are a number of animals on earth with more than 2 sexes.

>gender is a spectrum.
You don't know what you're talking about. The "X is a spectrum/on a spectrum" simply refers to the idea that some dumbfuck out there decided to draw a line, put 2 dots on said line, and label both points. Look at this image I posted. Behold, horses and humans "on a spectrum." Does the fact I've placed a horse and a human on a spectrum mean anything by virtue of simply being placed on such a model? Absolutely fucking not!

>So either there are no genders, or infinite genders, whichever you prefer.
No, it doesn't mean that at all. Google "Azoth" and "alchemy." You can find plenty of models that can help illustrate the concepts and complexities therein. Does that mean alchemy is real? No. Absolutely not.
Fuck off.

>If you mean biological sex, there are more than 2 (from a genetics perspective). XX and XY are most common, but the term "intersex" covers a variety of alternatives like XXY (which occurs in 1 in 500 to 1000 males).
Absolutely not. There's no reason for the arbitrary distinction between sex and gender, you can scrap "intersex" for "disorders."

>Gender is an amalgamation of biological sex, cultural beliefs, internal psychological experience, and external expression. So it's pretty complex.
I'm sure astrology can be complex. That doesn't mean it has any merit.

>Also anyone that disagrees with this is an idiot.
Says the moron.

>This isn't liberal bullshit.
It absolutely is.

>It's basic first year medical science. If you don't like it, thats great. Never go to a hospital, never use drugs, and pray your sicknesses away. You can't pick and choose your science.
Says the guy trying to pass off genetic disorders as, "Oh it's just intersex! It's completely natural for people to be born sterile!"
Go fuck yourself.

In the case of intersex individuals, wouldn't it make more sense to sex infants based on DNA and known conditions? I know XX males and XY females can be detected via a simple dna test. Other conditions have hormonal markers that could be used to make the determination.

Stupid infadels
There’s only one gender
Women aren’t people they are property

Most intersex individuals aren't sterile. Most have one functioning system and one non-functional system. Yes, breeding is made more difficult, but it can be done so long as they have either functional testes or functional ovaries

1. not all intersex individuals are sterile.

2. while some organizations classify intersex as a disorder, it's controversial. From a purely scientific perspective intersex is "genetic variation" and not a "genetic disorder".

3. You can survey people in 100 different cultures on our planet, and every culture will define what it means to be "male" or "female" differently (in terms of social role, and not biology).

4. the APA (the organization that dominates global research on the mind) has defined gender as a spectrum from a scientific standpoint. You can read the guidelines for practicing medical professionals here (keep in mind the APA publishes the DSM which defines mental disorders). apa.org/practice/guidelines/transgender.pdf

I specialize in the brain. I'm telling you straight up this is basic science. If you're too fucking ignorant or stupid to understand that, great. Like I said earlier, pray yourself better next time you need medical help. The same science that would cure you if you went to a doctor/hospital or took drugs, is the same science that has determined gender is a spectrum.

If you don't agree with the global scientific community, good for you. You're a special little uneducated snowflake that thinks they are smarter than people who study this stuff as a profession. Go become the next Elon Musk and stop wasting your time on an internet forum.

I turn lead into gold in my lab on a daily basis (for real). It's just ridiculously expensive. So alchemist is real (it is proto-chemestry) they were just trying the wrong methods.

Ah, but therein lies the problem:

If they have functioning male parts... why do they need a distinct gender? They're, for all intents and purposes, male.
If they have functioning female parts... why do they need a distinct gender? They're, for all intents and purposes, female.


These "3rd genders" aren't meaningfully different by your own admission or they're sterile which would then be the meaningful difference and hence a disorder. There is no person on record that is born with some bizarre and new set of genitalia that fulfills some peculiar or new purpose.

It would be better than the current system most countries use. But it's still problematic as intersex individuals (depending on the genetic variation) don't always fit into an existing XX/XY binary. For example, people with 5-alpha reductase deficiency can feel like a girl with female genitalia up until puberty, and then suddenly switch. They are always XY at birth, because only the Y chromosome is affected (so XX wouldn't be affected). but they usually end up identifying as male once they hit puberty. So labeling them as a girl, knowing they will prob end up identifying as a boy (due to male hormones and genitalia) seems like it would be a bit unethical. Conversely, if you labelled them all as male at birth, the ones that -don't- feel the desire to be male at puberty would have issues.

There's just a tinge more to alchemy, my friend. Prove the Azoth is real.

1. 2. Only controversial to people trying to bastardize the scientific enterprise for the sake of pure woo.
3. No one gives a damn that in America women can wear "skirts" and in another country men wear "kilts." That doesn't mean something magical happens that allows someone to identify as a "dragonkin" or a "bunself."
4. I'm well aware -- it is irrelevant.
5. Give me the best empirical basis you have for the existence of a "3rd gender" or shut the hell up.
6. Oh no, whatever shall I do now that the "global scientific community" has decided to arbitrarily draw a line, place 2 dots on it, and then label the dots. Here's a model for you:
A. Male.
B. Female.

Why not this model? What benefit or greater understanding is gained by using a "spectrum" other than to protect the fragile sensibilities of people like yourself?

see Imagine if you are born female. You look female. You feel female. You have female genitalia. Then you hit puberty, and your start looking male, your balls drop (literally, you have balls now), you get male facial/body hair, etc.

So you are technically XY
But you legit have balls
And you have male body hair
And feel like a guy

What do?

Es gibt mehr als zwei Geschlechter.

True madman

der, die, das

3 genders.

What about the cases where the internals are functional and female and the externals are nominally male? Or vice versus?

How would you classify a chimeric hermaphrodite, presuming both sets are functional? And yes, I'm well aware that particular complication only has a one in a billion chance of occurring per birth. I find the edge cases to be interesting.

For that matter, how would you classify the fem-boys from Salinas?

Male and Female are cultural constructs. They aren't real things.

XX and XY are real things. But they are meaningless outside of medical care.

Knowing that I'm XY or XX tells you absolutely nothing about me as a person. Neuroscientists are wholly unable to tell male brains apart from female brains. Your brain is 100 billion neurons. It's more complex than 2 binary notions.

You're gender identity is also complex.
First, try and define what it means to be "male" or "female" WITHOUT referring to biology. I bet you if 5 people blindly define them, they will all have different answers.

Here is an example:
They did a study where they has ppl from brazil and ppl from newyork come into a lab. They then told them a story about a man beating his wife after she cheated on him. And then asked them to rate how "masculine" the man was. People from new york gave the guy a low rating. People from brazil gave the guy a high rating. basically, one culture sees "maintaing your honour by hitting your cheating spouse" as manly, and another doesn't.

There are 100s of studies like this where different cultures have different beliefs about gender-norms. How specific genders are expected to behave/act/dress etc.

If you argue "gender norms aren't important" then your a feminist or trans-activist.

If you argue that gender norms aren't important, you need to recognize that different countries have different gender norms.
And if gender norms are not universal, then they are a social construct.

youtube.com/watch?v=OTVjY-VUERA

-Azoth: "It is the name given by ancient alchemists to Mercury, the animating spirit hidden in all matter that makes transmutation possible."

Instead of that fancy mystic name we call it Strong Nuclear Force, but it does exactly that. So yeah, we had proved it is real.

- Alchemy: "Common aims were chrysopoeia, the transmutation of "base metals" (e.g., lead) into "noble metals" (particularly gold); the creation of an elixir of immortality; the creation of panaceas able to cure any disease; and the development of an alkahest, a universal solvent."

I just see a protoscience trying to do nuclear physics, medicine and chemestry. Yeah, I'm pretty sure alchemy is very real, it just had the wrong methods to achieve its goals.

>Genders are cultural constructs. They aren't real things.
>XX and XY are real things referring to females and males.

Knowing the chromosomes of an individual tells you SO MUCH about a person's bone structure, health risks, and obviously sexual organs.

No

What is there to do?

They didn't go from female genitalia to some new, never before seen, set of genitalia that has some new or peculiar function. Even if every single premise you just outlined it's still a binary. We've moved from a 0 to a 1.

Your argument boils down to, "B-but! For a moment there there was 0.37! and 0.78!!1"

So what? We're still talking about female genitalia and male genitalia. Not "bunself" genitalia.

yes. but when you meet someone are you like "hey, could you please inform me about your bone structure, health risks, and penis size?"

No. You get to know people on a "personal" level. Or put another way, you interpret their mental states and relate them to your own to form social bonds.

XX and XY (or alternatives) are deff important for your doctor.

But gender identity (who you are inside) is what's meaningful in the real world and in social relationships.

And that identity is complex, and on a spectrum.

"male" and "female" are just general terms used to stereotype individuals based on common cultural beliefs about those within certain ranges on said spectrum.

I feel like I'm arguing with one of those muslim dudes that swears there's a whole shit ton of science in the quran because they were able to transpose scientific theories over vague writing.

That aside, you do have a point though -- alchemy was, in essence, a protoscience, and it remains that way for a reason.

So do you define them based on genitalia? (they have both female AND male btw)

Or do you define them based on their genetics (XY)

Or do you do the logical thing, and define them based on the complex 100billion+ neuron computer in their head that interprets all that genetic data and uses it to act on life.

If you were born with a penis you are a male.
If you were born with a vagina you are a female.
End of story.

No. Why?

Yes, I have a point. You have demonstrated poor knowledged of biology and now I'm trying to show you that you also have a poor knowledge of science in general.

Alchemy is very real, we just have more modern tools to work on it. Again, I do it on a daily basis for my job.

It was a protoscience becuase they lack the technology to do proper science, not because their ideas were wrong.

Just to give you an example, Newton (yeah, probably the best scientist of all times) wrote a lot of treaties on alchemy. He was just doing chemestry with the poor technology of the time.

ruthless

Anyone want to talk about colony reproduction in deep ocean worms? (each worm requires 3 sets of genetic material, discouraging worms from abandoning the colony. When the colony reaches a critical size half break off and form a new colony)

unless your penis is actually a psuedo-penis and you start bleeding out of it when you're 12 or your vagina develops into a penis when you hit your first testosterone flood with puberty

those worms obviously have mental disorders. there are clearly only 2 genders. my dad told me so at the trailer park!

>Male and Female are cultural constructs. They aren't real things.
No, not quite. There are cultural constructs that are arbitrarily linked to "male" and "female" like a skirt or a kilt. That doesn't imply that "male" or "female" are themselves cultural constructs.

>XX and XY are real things. But they are meaningless outside of medical care.
You're right that they're meaningful inside medical care, but you're wrong afterward.

>Knowing that I'm XY or XX tells you absolutely nothing about me as a person.
It isn't supposed to.

>Neuroscientists are wholly unable to tell male brains apart from female brains. Your brain is 100 billion neurons. It's more complex than 2 binary notions.
Why would that be a necessity? Is the fact that it's hard to place exactly what sex a pinky bone might belong to mean there's some mystical third gender hiding about? No, that would be absurd -- every bit as absurd as looking at a floppy dick dangling above your lips and thinking that has absolutely no baring on gender.

>You're gender identity is also complex.
>First, try and define... [cut for length]
Why don't you try to define what matter is without referring to math, physics, geology, or any scientific enterprise for that matter. Tell me what profound realization you've come to. Either way, none of it is evidence for a "third gender."

>They did a study...[cut for length]
You're measuring people's opinions. An opinion doesn't seep out of a person's head, make itself manifest as a real tangible thing. None of it is evidence for a "third gender."

>There are 100s of studies like this where different cultures have different beliefs about gender-norms. How specific genders are expected to behave/act/dress etc.
And it is all entirely irrelevant to the existence of a "third gender."

>If you argue "gender norms aren't important" then your a feminist or trans-activist.
They *can* be important depending on the subject matter. As evidence for a "third gender"? Absolutely not.

I mean, I'm not sure they have the brain capacity to develop a mental disorder, what with having less neural tissue per oz than an earth worm, but ok.

You're basically conflating "gender" with "biological-sex"

Medical textbooks don't refer to XX and XY as gender. They refer to it as "sex."

You may not agree with that distinction, but academia does. You can wikipedia gender, and you can wikipedia sex. They are 2 different things.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex

>yes.
THANK YOU for agreeing and not being a fucking idiot. Realize that what I said was in direct contradiction to what you stated.

> but when you meet someone are you like
Unless they're fucking weirdos, it's pretty obvious and there's no need to ask.

>But gender identity (who you are inside) is what's meaningful in the real world and in social relationships.

No dude, the existence of a dick or a pussy is pretty damn meaningful when it comes to social relationships.


>"male" and "female" are just general terms for if you have something sticking out that you put into others, or if you have a hole others stick things into.

Hence: Male USB connectors, female wall outlets. Yes, it's a general term for a very mechanical aspect.

...

I define *it* as a genetic disorder. As for *them,* in a personal sense, I don't give a shit -- they aren't science.

You're right in the sense that it is a peculiar case. Just like this image is a peculiar case. Does the fact that genetic disorders happen mean that the *trend* isn't actually a trend? I mean if not, then how can one sit there and claim having gigantic painful plates of flesh shouldn't be considered a disorder? So what they'll die in an hour or two?
At least with Harlequin Ichthyosis you could, technically, define it as a "new" type of skin because it's a real physical deviation from the norm that fulfills a new purpose -- being exceptionally agonizing for the soul unfortunate to have been born with it. Tell me, is this "intersex" person born with some magical third set of genitalia that has no known purpose? Through puberty does it develop some magical third set of genitalia with no known purpose?

Or do they have female genitalia or male genitalia?
>Or do you do the logical thing, and define them based on the complex 100billion+ neuron computer in their head...

Right, and every single person who swears they were abducted by an alien or has been possessed by a demon is absolutely 100% telling the truth. I mean what are you gonna go with? The lack of any and all empirical evidence to the effect? Or are you going to do the LOLgical thing and define them based on what their 100billion+ neuron computer in their head is telling you? On that note, lying never happens. People are never deluded. Never. Perish the thought.

If your first thought when meeting someone else is "dick or pussy" you have issues. And you're probably a virgin desperate to get some, because otherwise, why the fuck would you care?

Like if you start gaming with some random on the internet, what difference does them having a dick/pussy make? Wouldn't you rather share interests, have stuff to talk about, etc?

If your main interest in life is "pussy" then are you really alive? Or are you just a slave to your own internal drives for reproduction.

...

>Medical textbooks don't refer to XX and XY as gender. They refer to it as "sex."

They used to be the same thing.

The term gender as separate from sex was made up by a crazy psychologist who tried to force a boy with a botched circumcision to be raised as a girl. Him and his brother both committed suicide.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money

Keep believing everything you read on facebook

Yeah lets just not have it on record whether a baby is a boy or girl because less than .1% of the population is mutated

Ah, I see you've decided to be completely and totally pedantic.

>Alchemy is very real, we just have more modern tools to work on it. Again, I do it on a daily basis for my job.
>It was a protoscience becuase they lack the technology to do proper science, not because their ideas were wrong.

Bullshit. Just like the Earth wasn't in truth the center of the universe just because that's "the best we could do at the time."

>Just to give you an example, Newton (yeah, probably the best scientist of all times) wrote a lot of treaties on alchemy. He was just doing chemestry with the poor technology of the time.

Already knew about that. Then again, I'm not the guy who would now be bound to justifying the thoughts an ideas of Freud because "ah, well he was the first, there were limitations... he eventually renounced much of what he had to say..." on the basis of it being a "protoscience."

There were very many wrong ideas.

Yeah, John Money was an idiot. But those kids committing suicide was proof for gender-identity, not against it. Basically you can't "force" someone to change who they are inside.

>If your first thought when meeting someone else is "dick or pussy" you have issues.
It's not, but nice try stuffing that into my mouth. It DOES naturally come up though. Human nature isn't that far from nature.

> And you're probably a virgin desperate to get some, because otherwise,

30's with a kid. This is a less nice of a try.

>why the fuck would you care?

Mostly for flirting.

>If your main interest in life is "pussy" then are you really alive?
Yes. I also enjoy roguelikes, woodworking, and SDL demos.


> Or are you just a slave to your own internal drives for reproduction.
Yes, that too. Also the internal drive for calories, shelter, love, belonging.... have you ever heard of Maslow's hierarchy?

Based on your response it's pretty obvious you have never actually taken a course in genetics, and don't really understand how it works.

You can take one on coursera or edx

Or go to an actual university and learn basic first year biology/genetics/science.

Then your arguments will sound less retarded.

no

But I thought gender isn't influenced by physical characteristics...does this mean worms don't justify tumblr?

>wikipedia

so if you fell in love with someone who looked, acted, and sounded like a girl, and then found out she was once a guy, you would just end the relationship because of her birth biology?

Even though she fills all your needs and makes you happy?

>You're basically conflating "gender" with "biological-sex"
I'm not conflating them, you commandeered them and decided to arbitrarily make them distinct.

>Medical textbooks don't refer to XX and XY as gender. They refer to it as "sex."
And some math textbooks say you can't take the square root of negative numbers. The reason for that is because the way we've decided to teach math to children is in chunks. Ignore that part -- and likely ignore the reason why for your entire adult life because hardly anyone pursues math in any sort of depth -- but that doesn't mean in truth that one can't take the square root of a negative number just because you can pluck a textbook out that says you can't. Just like I can pluck out the textbook of "Of Pandas and People" and it's going to tell me how evolution is a lie and all the complexity of life is due to some divine creator within the span of 6,000 years. Tell me, do you believe that just because one has pointed to a textbook? Or to a concept illustrated in a textbook? No? Great. So you can take your non-point and shove it up your ass.

>You may not agree with that distinction, but academia does. You can wikipedia gender, and you can wikipedia sex. They are 2 different things.
I know they do, and it wouldn't be an issue -- honestly it wouldn't -- if there was any real weight behind the decision to do so beyond being a thinly-veiled political move.

Is it wrong to be heterosexual? There's a big difference there.

Hey.. What's the definition of racism?

the decision to separate sex and gender makes perfect sense. There are 2 distinct things. They could have used diff terminology (e.g. at-birth-genetic-code and sex-expression) but what diff does it really make?

You need to separate them to get an accurate understanding of human behaviour and neuroscience.

They could have been separated in diff ways, but that only proves that the non-genetic part is a construct. With infinite possible ways to define it.

None of this has anything to do with politics. In fact, politics probably held the science in this field back by 50 or so years, because conservatives were to scared to fund research into it (and homosexuality).

>so if you fell in love with someone who looked, acted, and sounded like a girl, and then found out she was once a guy, you would just end the relationship because of her birth biology?

Yes, I'd stop dating the dude. First off, why the fuck would he lie to me about something so important?


>Even though she fills all your needs and makes you happy?

Except for that whole "Being a woman" part. And kids. Also it opens a LOT of questions about suicide, why he's trans, what caused it, who he really is, and what's with the whole deception thing?

That would depend entirely on your definition of gender. Gender as the mental construct? They're worms. They don't have the brain capacity to consider themselves one thing, the next or the other (F,M+,M-). Gender as in sex? sex is largely about genetics, which by definition is a physical thing.

There's 5 genders... Hear me out because they exist and no one can deny it.
There's male and female. The absolute only two "REAL" genders.... Whatever the fuck that means.

Also, Hermaphrodites exist. Not trans, or traps.. People with both genitalia. Also there's some born with absolutely nothing.. Much rarer, they're Ken and Barbie dolls.

Lastly, the rarest of them all, people that are so fucked up on a biological level that they literally do not have a gender. They're usually experimented on and killed off.

Let me be even a bit more pedantic.

All sciences laws are wrong, since sooner or later we are going to come with better theories that improves them. That's how science works, our theoeries are true for now. In the near future they will change. Newton's gravity, Maxwell eletromagnetism and, yes, our concepts of sex and gender.

They were the best we had at the time, now we have something more elaborated. Evolve and adapt to the new times or be left behind. You choice.

according to google: "prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."