The Indian Caste System

ITT: we talk of the Indian Caste System.

I have a shitload of questions and, as you may know, if I feel like taking a crap, I'm gonna do it in the open.
Anyway, I really don't know where to start.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India#Onset_of_endogamy
youtube.com/watch?v=Xl0b2LGf9jM
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

1/3

In Western theory of race, it is advocated a strong one-to-one correlation:
> 1 folk = 1 fatherland = 1 religion
> = 1 race
This greentext is exemplified by all European (and also some non-European) nationalist movements. The Serbs have even gone to the point of using the "number 3" gesture to exemplify the above relation.
The main assumption of Western racial theory is:
>two people cannot share the same land.
Full fucking stop. One of the two must go.

2/4

However, let's look at India.
Memes aside, Poo in the Loo has developed a system that allows different races of people to roughly share the same country, but not necessarily share the same social space within the same country.
Theoretically speaking, this is pure genius. If you cannot keep different peoples separated by geographical and political boundaries, you can still let them be separated in terms of tasks they perform, professions, and a series of other characteristics.
This is some kind of widespread apartheid. You still do have ghettoes -- because people of the same caste have the tendency to gather together, have their own neighbourhoods, etc. But they system has also a set of rules in place that allows for everyone to interact when in the public space.
Vaisyias and Sudras can roughly share the workplace without social upheaval. The same goes for everyone else.

3/4

There are also beneficial side effects of this. Or, at least, beneficial in a Sup Forums sense:
>People marry within their caste
>Racial identity is preserved even if people share the same town, etc.
>On the one hand, upper castes have their own areas where no one else can go (unless for cleaning or serving)
>On the other hand, even the lower castes have their own areas where no one else wants to go
>This creates some kind of "soft" ghettoes
>Even if ghettoes are a thing in the caste system, public space is negotiated with clarity
>Even if public space is shared, race mixing does not occur on the ordinary. And when it does it is frowned upon by ALL castes. Not just the upper ones.
This latter part is a key element, because otherwise you will end up with the eternal lower castes trying to incept the eternal upper ones with their own seed, and vice versa. Rather, thanks to a complex system of shared social norms and beliefs, each caste has its own "pride", so that Merchants do not desire to be Warriors, etc.
>Reinforcement occurs because, as ages roll over, each caste becomes a race even if it wasn't a race in first place: the genetic clade is formed by means of social divisions, and eventually every group specializes in something. This is not even bad, because each group becomes not just socially, but also biologically adapted to their own jobs. Supposedly, this will diminish unhappiness.
If you still have doubts about the possibility of inbreeding, a sufficiently big number of members for each caste will ensure enough genetic variety to prevent shit from taking over a race and transform it into a degenerate bunch of losers.

4/4

However, I still do have questions.

a. Does the caste system really worked?

b. Even if it works, is it desirable or just a last resort for a population that goes towards unavoidable globalization?

c. Do you agree with me that there is a trade-off between authentic democracy and globalization?
>On the one hand, if you want to have authentic democracy, you have to accept it only works with groups of people who perceive themselves as peers in all respects, usually because of shared religion, race, and land. If you globalize the shit out of them, conflict will ensue and democracy will degrade.
>On the other hand, if you want to have a globalized wolrd, you have to accept democracy will never be a thing. So in order to keep peace and order you have to settle down for something like the caste system.
My intuition is that you simply cannot have both. Democracy is simply not optimal for an overcrowded world. Indians knew that, and in fact they developed a specific system to deal with it.

d. Think of all the post-colonial and contemporary social upheavals in India. Is it due to the intrinsic instability of the caste system, or is it due to its abolition? Because it is easy to say "poo in loo", "muh rape", etc. But isn't this somehow linked to the barbarism that ensues when a resilient system is brought to collapse by external forces?

Neat.

>Does the caste system really work?

No. It never worked to really keep people separated.
There are plenty of people in Indian history who switched castes.

I.E. Kshatriyas becoming Brahmins, and vice versa.

Also cultural influences can tear the whole thing down. Wandering ascetics (laters known as Yogis) threatened the role of Brahmins as priests.

Poo rolls downhill.

This thread should not be made on a Sunday, mate. People gotta shitpost in frustration.

>pic related

Man, I'm free on Sundays. I shitpost on Sundays. I just make an effort to keep high the quality of discussion in this board.
I cannot voucher for the quality of my sources, but I wanna keep the quality of discussion at an above-bantz level.

>prevent racemixing

Indians are literally the most blanda'd up mongrel group of people on Earth. They are every wave of indo-european/turkic/arabic/bantu/mongoloid that has ever crossed into asia minor and failed to find its way back out again.


The fact that they were still using its caste system after it had become a net negative to the systemic organization of their society (they were having huge status problems even before Europeans arrived) just shows how the inertial mediocrity of the Indian subcontinent.


They will continue to use and shit up whatever system was left to them for thousands of years, and while it grows exponentially inefficient and moribund, they will never actually throw off the bondage of traditions they have long since forgotten the usefulness and meaning of.

Show one beneficial effect the caste system had on their society after the middle ages.

>Can't even use a toilet
>Has a caste system

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>Indians are literally the most blanda'd up mongrel group of people on Earth. They are every wave of indo-european/turkic/arabic/bantu/mongoloid that has ever crossed into asia minor and failed to find its way back out again.
That's exactly your mistake. Because you see "Indians" as a unique race... instead you should see them as a pyramid of races.

So of course ALL Indians are extremely diverse. They are diverse because:
>India is a fucking continent. You cannot demand it has the same homogeneity of, say, pre-war Germany. Fuck no. It is impossible for a continent to be all painted white or black. Deal with it.
>Take 10 Indians at random: you will have 10 different races.
Some castes are endogamic as fuck. They have the same surnames and a bazillion of relatives within the same caste.

So of course you say: they are mixed. But in fact there are huge subsets of Indian society that have been very resilient to mixing.

>they were having huge status problems even before Europeans arrived
Are you sure? My sauce says the caste system was heterogeneous in application, but more or less widespread everywhere. They had to codify it AFTER the British Raj rose to power.

>Show one beneficial effect the caste system had on their society after the middle ages.
I don't know. I was hoping from some Poo in Loo to contribute.

>shitload

nice one

Do Indians consider themselves white?

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>Screencap
Lel. I'm flattered.

But I think and are right.

What I describe here is how the caste system is supposed to work.
And I also imply that is inevitable for *some* caste system to emerge.

However, as discussed in the other posts, it is true that the cast system of city X in Southern India was not the same of countryside Y in Northern India.

So what I described is a very de jure situation. But its implementation is another matter. Its historical success is another matter, because what I said here might be historically wrong.

Even so, I think my [c] issue is spot-on. See Kek.

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>Indians are literally the most blanda'd up mongrel group of people on Earth. They are every wave of indo-european/turkic/arabic/bantu/mongoloid that has ever crossed into asia minor and failed to find its way back out again.

Compare with:

>According to Reich et al.,
>Strong endogamy must have applied since then (average gene flow less than 1 in 30 per generation) to prevent the genetic signatures of founder events from being erased by gene flow. Some historians have argued that “caste” in modern India is an “invention” of colonialism in the sense that it became more rigid under colonial rule. However, our results suggest that many current distinctions among groups are ancient and that strong endogamy must have shaped marriage patterns in India for thousands of years.
Sauce: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India#Onset_of_endogamy

I know it's Wikipedia, but it will suffice for a Sunday arvo.

TL:DR;

Indians are basically two genetic groups split 50,000 years ago: ANI and ASI (Ancestral Northern Indians and Ancestral Southern Indians).

Genetic research shows that caste endogamy was strong even *before* British colonization.
It is seen thanks to genetic "signatures" that have never been erased from the gene pool because of endogamy.

>inb4 endogamic inbreeding
You can always occasionally fuck an outsider to get some mix-breed vigour into the gene pool. Just for the sake of NOT becoming like the eternal Ashkenazi cripples.

kek ...have you seen her Aryan father?

Its a tribal system that endured throughout times of increasing societal complexity. China, Europe, and even the middle east to an extent abandoned clan-like social orders when they became incompatible with task specialization. Indians could not into that, even when their growing complexity was inwardly driven.

I was taught that the indian caste system was repurposed by the british to actually have some relevant social engineering application, whereas when they arrived and locals attempted to demonstrate the functional differences between the castes it was totally incomprehensible and provided no apparent social utility whatsoever.

Kshatriya here.
Four castes in caste system -
Brahmans - priests. Main job in Ancient India - to teach children of every caste except the shudras, taking care of temples, performing yagnas, atrology, astronomy and memebers to the kings council.

Kshatriyas - Warriors. Includes kings, commanders and high ranking soldiers. Ruling and protecting kingdoms

Vaishyas - Traders

Shudras - Servants, shudras had a sub category too. Even in Modern India well educated Shudras are good for nothing, they barely know about the thing they majored in the college.

you really need to accept that whites lost in globalization and all this pseudo intellectual BS is not going to save you bitch lol

>a trading caste

This is why you have no hope. The jews have literally been fighting tooth and nail to win themselves the 'official rich businessmen' title permanently for hundreds of years.

How does it make any sense at all to designate a group of people as being the ones who trade, regardless of whether they are geographically or logistically positioned to manage and conduct the transportation and exchange of goods?

Commerce is the counter-balance to inherited social roles in society, not just another title.

We are talking about the Ancient India, rules don't imply to modern India. I am kshatriya but my father is a business man.
Kshatriya and Brahmans mostly go for high paying jobs like doctors or engineers or they prefer doing business.
The vaishyas mostly do business especially of gold.

i can never take indians seriously desu
youtube.com/watch?v=Xl0b2LGf9jM
also your language is disgusting

nope , are Caucasoid though.

lol but the same switch hitting occurred in medieval india. I've read accounts of servant class people developing the equivalent of middle management positions in control of sea-traded goods in the docks of port cities through whom the local traders and the mercantile Brahman ship-owners needing to coordinate their trades and transactions, which resulted in periodic failure to reach an accord because of the illegitimate nature of a servant to negotiate price points.

The system hasn't had any purpose since the sumerian days yet India keeps plunging forward pretending to know what it means to adhere to it.

Do Pakistana and Bangladesh have a caste system as well?

>merchants
>not at the very bottom

That's the problem, right there.

Gas the Vaishyas!
Caste War now!

This is reverse australian shit posting

Hinduism is one of the most adaptive religion in the world, this is why it is still surviving today even on being the oldest religion in the world. So its not a problem like extremist Islam. About India, republic of India is a secular nation. So even though the society doesn't give you the right to move forward with upper caste the judiciary does. India has many and huge flaws but we are trying to improve.

They are mudslim nations, they don't have castes they have sunnis and shias

The upper three caste will never go to a war with each other. Indian society is a dependent society. The favor system is the backbone of India, due to huge population everybody knows everybody in a region and you never know when a person can be useful to you. Like I live in Delhi, its the capital and every fucking body has a connection to the parliament or the police.

>The favor system is the backbone of India, due to huge population everybody knows everybody in a region and you never know when a person can be useful to you. Like I live in Delhi, its the capital and every fucking body has a connection to the parliament or the police.
Are you bragging about your civic corruption as a beneficial aspect of Indian society? lmao

Vaisya, not bad.

Posting in an Austalian quality thread I didn't think this would ever happen.

I have an objection. The castes are not equal, and society might not have need for all the people in a class. If an ethnic group are the priests, this implies the ethnic group remains small, or it becomes parasitic upon the empire.

Similarly, the race in a lower caste might not want to be in the shitty lower class. All this thus hinges on having a numerous and strong warrior race to keep everyone in place, which can itself become parasitic, like happened in Ancient Sparta: no progression, no learning, just warriors.

Corruption is bad but is it all bad? Why can't we have a society where poors don't have to pay bribes to get the job done but the rich can get their job done faster by paying some bribes.
Like if it takes 2 days to get a document, let the poor spend those 2 days to get it for free while the rich can pay extra to get it delivered to its home.

In the global caste system, all Indians are "harijans"

Like you can be in line to get your job done for free or you can pay to avoid getting in line.

>caste system
lists varnas instead of castes

>Why can't we have a society where poors don't have to pay bribes to get the job done but the rich can get their job done faster by paying some bribes.
Because of your next sentence:
>Like if it takes 2 days to get a document, let the poor spend those 2 days to get it for free while the rich can pay extra to get it delivered to its home.
Which literally means you have to pay someone money to get it done.

Holy shit man I can't believe the diminished attention span in that post. You're a truly quixotic people.

What I am saying is instead of paying to a person who are corrupt make it a legal service where money/bribe will be going into the national treasury. Like a VIP pass.
You may think there is a huge injustice done to Indian people due to corruption but there isn't, because only 1% of I.2 billion people here pay income taxes.
How can they demand of a just system when they themselves are cheating their own nation by not paying the taxes.

Lol why would you pay taxes when the state has allowed its low level administrators and functionaries to extract the fee for government's work directly at the point of service? I would not pay taxes if I am already paying for every single government service I use individually.

2 things, because you're worng but may not see why

1 in 30 completes introgression in less than 50 generations. the castes are genetically similar in all regards, including iq

2. the southern indians are actually the smarter one. the northern ones got destroyed by islam, and it's the SOUTHERN high castes who remain the sole moderate iq group. there are a scant few high iq north indians, but they speak PERSIAN.

you think corruption is a benefit. we should nuke you when we're done with islam, you subhuman.

connections and corruption is literally what stops your economy from being efficient. do yourself a favor you monkey and read piketty.

you can't have profit without efficiency. corruption and favors prevent meritocracy and god decisions. kill yourself.

It looks easy for you, because you are a civilized country. You don't even have the clue what happens here.
>Be me
>Becomes an adult
>Goes to a district office to get my Voter ID as it is also used as an ID proof in my country.
>My first ID card, excited as fuck to be a part of legal system.
>Not even the elected year and still there is a huge line of at least 200 people.
>After 3 days, of standing in line with slum people (as its a district office, people from nearby slums also comes under it)
>They don't even know how to stand in a fucking line.
>Got bloody pick-pocketed by one of them even when I was helping those scums to fill their forms.
>Had to reach the office 2 hours before its opening time to avoid being last in the line.
>The worst part is most of those people were getting their second ID made so they can caste more votes & get more money in return of them.

I would gladly pay anyone to avoid that experience and if you were in my position then trust me, you would have done the same thing.

>waited in line for 3 days
>actually took him three days to figure out how to get to the office on time to be seen before it closes

You see the difference, don't you? One is outlandish inefficiency, the other is personal incompetency.


2 hours is too early to have to arrive to be seen I agree, but for example when I went to get my passport I showed up 30 minutes before the office opened and was only seen in the afternoon. There were people who showed up after me that had to come back again the next day because they could no longer accept applications in time to complete them before closing.

In any case, NONE of that justifies a system whereby you can just pay the mook whose salary is already being paid by tax dollars to get ferried to the top of the heap. You might as well dissolve the government and live in a state of anarchy, letting everybody pay or toil for their lot whatever that may be.

2 hours early to not to be the last in line, I was shocked, you know why because there were people who came there at 5 fucking AM. They came at 5 AM in the morning, for an office that opens at 10 AM.
People are fucking crazy here.

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