Unions protect workers' jobs, ensure they are paid a competitive salary, and see that they are treated fairly

Unions protect workers' jobs, ensure they are paid a competitive salary, and see that they are treated fairly.

What's the problem exactly?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_income_policy_agreement
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because it helps minorities, of course pol has a problem with it.

Nothing. The nazis destroyed the union system in Germany so they can exploit workers.

How do I join a union? I want to get paid more at GameStop.

I worked for Frito-Lay in a warehouse. Every year under the union we would get horrible raises and medical was shit.

Workers voted to dump the union and everyone started to get higher raises and decent medical through frito-lay.

From my experience, unions can fuck off. They take your money to do nothing decent for you.

Thats what they want you to believe, familia :^)

I'll give 2 examples, using the HVAC trade:

Technician #1: Has been through EVERY school available, and has moved to the top of the HVAC food chain(Chiller tech), basically has the same knowledge level as someone with a BSME.

Technician #2: Has been in the union for 5 years, is borderline retarded, only skill level is changing filters and belts.
BUT, because he hasn't been fired, he is entitled to the same paycheck as the chiller tech.
Doesn't seem fair to me

Americans dislike it because they think it's unjust to try to keep people out of abject poverty, and then complain when all the poor people start turning to crack dealing and home invasions to pay the bills and just get more resentful because "omg y r u tryna pay tyrone more when hes just niggering out 24/7"

they eventually develop their own agenda using "protecting workers' jobs, ensuring they are paid a competitive salary, and see that they are treated fairly"
they eventually develop their own internal politics which is another complication and obstacle to getting the job done

in the end they make it harder for the workers to do their job

Dude, a union guy came to a construction site I was working on, went around asking everyone if the have been told to look for minorities and women to recommend to positions in the company. The unions are leftist controlled, and I don't want muh 15 an hour. I get 13.50 an hour, and if I work my way up I can have more.

Solution: Tech #1 should join the union that Tech #2 is in and get paid appropriately.
Problem solved.

Unions are still losing power in the US, because they are not doing anything for the workers.
IBEW/ USW don't even get double time for working Sundays and holidays anymore, they have maxed out their pay scale.

Unions kills small time business because they can't bend rules.

They go too far. They generally are corrupt. They generally resort to violence.

Yes!! Next we can regulate prices!! Golly... Gotta make sure there is at least 50% darkies to... Time to go chiller tech, union is fire you for diversity quota!!! Glory to the state comrade!

Tech 1 & 2 ARE IN THE SAME SHOP?!
The whole purpose of unions to "level the field"

See what's happening in France now? Riots and strike, that what unions brought to us

Management and/or HR should do a better job of hiring people.

Management should not be lazy fucks and persue the processes whereby tech #2 is either correctly trained and can do his job or he is fired.

I agree that unions will fight for useless fuckups when they really shouldn't, but at the same time management is often spineless wimps that are afraid of actually doing their jobs and dealing with the problem because it would require some confrontation.

Is this a real thing? In Australia unions are literally a godsend because of how willing businesses are to throw us to the dogs. The Royal Commission into unions here arrested zero union members. Most of you poncy fuckers don't like them because they swear when they speak to you and want people to actually earn decent wages and not get fucked over as slave labor.

Americans hate it because they have been thoroughly brainwashed by propaganda financed by their big business.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with unions.
Without unions, conditions would be catastrophic for workers. Benefits easily outweigh the negatives.

Unions are fine. However, Public Sector Unions are a fucking cancer. Private Sector Unions like IBEW, UMWA, etc. are a mixed bag. IBEW I hear is great but UMWA has had a history of corruption. It all really depends.

This x100. The Gilded Age Union movement, Progressives, etc. saved the Working Class here in America. It's a shame these organizations are such a mixed bag in todays world though.

You end up protecting people who can't do their fucking job.

Unions get too big and powerful, and end up a corporate entity in their own right.
The union at Sikorsky, for example.
Workers had $15 a week from their paycheck taken for health insurance, and this was top tier insurance. The union decided this was an outrage, and staged a strike demanding that Sikorsky pay 100% of the insurance cost as opposed to 99.999% of it. If you missed your "shift" on the picket line, which a friend of mine did one day when he ended up with food poisoning, the union sent people to your house to force you to show up.

Unions are just mafias.

The working class==the people is not true anymore. You can no longer justify the union benefits because there is a huge number of unemployed people who get nothing.

Short version : US unions suck. Other unions are vary from okedoke to good.
Long version : ITT discuss

The problem of unions is corruption and nepotism. In principle they are good organizations, in practice they are hives of corruption.

The solution here is to introduce a different classification for chiller tech at a different pay rate at the next negotiation.
>It's already there though, isn't it.
You don't know shit about unions.

Nothing wrong with private unions.
Public unions, however, are absolute and utter cancer.

and they do that for free?!? how noble of them!

what? they don't? so it is another racketeer

What meme reactionary kids here don't understand, organizations like unions prevent far worse things. Like extreme left ideas.
There's a reason communist revolution didn't happen in West. Big business got scared and was forced to compromise.

>skilled labourers should not be allowed to organize a union because some unskilled useless fuckups won't benefit from it

What the hell, Finland?

In principle, unions are an effective means by which to extract a greater cut, a level of stability, from one's employer. Unfortunately, unions are only able to thrive under conditions of relatively high employment (a tight market) -- when hordes of unemployed/underemployed individuals are present, or when employers are permitted to import labour when desired, the whole thing falls apart.

Public unions function as rackets.

youtube.com/watch?v=o4oeJrXJZFY
I feel as though this is relevent. This is how it works in Aus

unions are terrorist organizations. Look at what unions do in france. Pure terrorism. Unions should be banned.

If unions are legal, then it should be fine for corporations to band together an screw consumers all they want. same idea.

Union Rep for an Airline here.

Unions are completely necessary. The companies greed is too great in "right to work" states and would have employees working 24/7 and no benefits. My Union protects them, ensures raises every year and protects employees from brig unfairly fired.

Last month we had an employee who is an outstanding worker who has been with the companies for 27 years and never been in trouble once accidentally damage an aircraft and the company attempted to fire him. Why? Because he was at top pay ($30 an hour) and they had an excuse to. We prevented that.

Unions are needed 100%. Think of it this way...

the company will take advantage of us if not in a union. Sorry you have to slave away 24/7 for minimum wage but don't infringe on my Union because you don't have one.

Nothing if multiple unions can compete against one another (i.e. no monopolization) and violence isn't used (i.e. damage of property, trespassing, etc)

Maybe your union is good.

I was a Teamster for a few years and these reps were lock step with management, never protected anyone and did nothing but create a hostile work environment.

Since we voted them out or pay has increased, we've gotten more vacation time and our jobs have overall gotten a lot better.

fuck the teamsters all they ever did was take my money

Local 890 here, can confirm.

They are allowed to organize as they wish, but doing so they have to admit they are doing it only for themselves for their own selfish reason at the expense of others. They have no moral high ground. I see unions as a cartel against the unemployed.

You didn't present all the facts, friend.
>In what way was the aircraft damaged ?
>Was the employee intoxicated?

>a literal retarded chimp can do my job
Kys

Journeyman carpenters make $46 and hour plus benefits, making the package about $70 an hour.

You're a fucking moron.

>they are doing it only for themselves

Yes, that is the entire point. Labour organizes in order to have a better position with which to bargain with their employer.

>muh unemployed

The state already takes money from the worker and gives it to the unemployed. The union is not involved in that aspect of society and there is no need for it to be.

and how long can i expect to be laid off per year before hit journeyman?

There are no competitive salaries anymore.

Unions only work for trades. And even then they protect incompetents, dog fuckers, and guys with good knees.

Unions in factories/etc are garbage.

Modern Unions are one of the reasons Companies jumped ship to globalization so quick. It's depressing seeing Management etc having wages that have actually gone up with inflation and are where they should be. Versus the stagnate wages of the serfs under them.

>steep shop, 50~ workers, 24/5 operation
>MGMT pretty shitty, but it's mostly lazy people dragging everything down
>claim that if the shop ever unionized they'd shutdown
>lazy guys all band together, because they want to be even more lazy
>unionize
>MGMT opens up a shop closer to their customers, takes all the anti-union hard working guys, hires a crew of mostly foreign workers(more hardworking and grateful for $18/hr)
>bleed other shop dry
>guys are now paying union dues too

>manufacturing shop, 24/7, 500 workers
>union starts bitching and rumbling about pay and such(they just want to be able to scrape off more)
>striking and all sorts of stuff
>MGMT says fuck it and moves the operation Mexico
>muh union!

Unions are just corrupt clubs for entitled little shits who cling to "gained benefits" beyond all reason, even if the company they work for can no longer afford to pay for those benefits. Those fucks would rather be fired, and prevent others from being hired, than compromise on their precious benefits. Unions are the main reason why our government hasn't been able to get the financial reforms done, because the unions bitched, whined and threatened with general strike, if anything that they didn't like was planned.
I consider them to be borderline treasonous organizations that actively harm my homeland and it's people in the long run.

Ftr, usually techs that only change filters and belts get paid the minimum for the trade, typically under $20/hr closer to 12-16.
The reason a tech remains a filter changer is because he gets paid so little and isn't advancing his career and therefore makes himself more profitable to the employer.
It wouldn't make sense sending a $50/hr guy to a $15/hr job.

The really disappointing result of globalisation is the fact that no one is making a quality product anymore.

That said, the main problem that most people have with unions is that they typically lead to really retarded work rules and an adversarial relationship with the management of a company.

Imagine that you're installing a piece of machinery and part of the installation is plugging in several different cables or pulling wire through conduit. In a normal shop, the workers that are installing the machine would all perform several different tasks and install the machine as efficiently as possible.

In a union shop, that's not allowed, only a master electrician can touch wiring, he must work for a minimum number of hours, and his work also must include an electricians assistant. If a master electrician is not available, the work stops and you have to wait, regardless of how east/straightforward the task is.

Unions also promote bad relationships between various people within the same company. If you have an us-vs-them attitude and encourage petty infighting with regards to people within your own fucking company, how successful are you going to be when you are competing with companies that act as a coherent group where everyone wants to work towards the same goal?

If unions were really about protecting worker safety and getting workers good salary/benefits, nobody would have a problem with them at all. The poisonous attitude and gross inefficiency in union shops is really what people hate.

>mfw pol has literally no qualms about businesses and billionaires forming unions ala chamber of commerce all across the country but will shit 24/7 on wage slaves attempts to organize for better working conditions and pay

what the KEK is wrong with pol? is it because wage slaves are more than likely minorities?

Pretty much this.

Back before the EU we could at least devalue the currency every now and then to keep wages competitive and the system more or less worked. Now we can't even do that because we adopted the euro and the unions' bullshit can't be countered with any meaningful measure. And then they wonder why unemployment, especially among young people, is now a major problem.

Thanks unions. Thanks EU. Truly you are our greatest allies.

>The union is not involved in that aspect of society and there is no need for it to be.
In Finland they are directly involved. Every few years, the unions, the employers(they have their own union) and the state come together and make an agreement in which they make decisions on taxes, healthcare an such. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_income_policy_agreement

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_income_policy_agreement

>not considered government legislation
>shut down in 2008 by employers

Sure, bud.

Nope, everyone is pretty redpilled on capitalism. Workers are a supply themselves. Companies have a demand for good workers, because good workers are really productive. So: if you want to get paid more money, be more productive and ask for a raise. If your boss doesn't give you a raise, find another boss.

Be productive, get money.

Trust me it's still there, they just call it with different name. Now it's called "the competitiveness pact", here is piece of news about it for proofs yle.fi/uutiset/competitiveness_pact_approved__metalworkers_last_holdout/8930313

Unions are fine, as long as they are not coercive or given special protections. The massive, obstructive, and wholeheartedly corrupt Union system we have today is thanks to States forcing workers to fund them, while simultaneously protecting Union members from getting fired when they refuse to work or slack off.

All my burger friends who are in unions constantly boast about how easy it is abusing the system.

>implying the workers aren't more lazy and less productive when they organize themselves in strong unions

In my country the biggest pieces of shit and degenerates participate in unions.

You really don't know how this works do you? You have the government and the unions trying to work out a deal and it sometimes doesn't work out(usually because workers' unions and employers' unions fucking hate each other). There's no legal obligation to do so but of course every elected government tries to do it because reaching an agreement between workers and employers is a real sweet deal for the government. These deals do very much directly affect government policy because the conditions to make such deals always contain conditions that the government must fulfill.

>Company can't afford to pay workers proper wages
Then don't start a company you fucking idiot.

If corporations can organize together to fix prices, why cant workers organize to fix the wages?

Because afterwards they become corrupt.

>union in end game: "I want wages set to this much
>employer: "Okay, but remember how I helped you get elected to union leader. What about setting wages to this amount instead
>union leader: "Alright". "Great news comrades! We got a raise!"
>years later
>union: "Let's strike for a better pay"
>union leader: "Thanks for helping me get elected again. Remember that amount I was talking about many years ago?"
>employer: "Of course! Why don't we raise the wages to that exact value?"
>union leader: "Great news comrades! We got another raise! Let's go back to work"
And that is how things works in end game. Union leadership and the employers are all friends, but not in the good way. Employers help union leaders to raise themselves politically, and in return union leadership helps them in the long run, by delaying pay raises and work rights.

What is a "proper wage" and who determines it? You?

Wages in Finland are pretty low, far lower than in USA or Australia, even though our unions are stronger. Unions don't magically make wages better.

>We should be allowed to pay employees below minimum wage
>muh bootstraps meme

Get fucked cunt, without unions monopolies would be formed and we'd be working for peanuts and would thanking our overlord corporations for out $0.50 an hour

in America we have federal law against monopoly and minimum wage.

minimum wage laws are retarded.. just make it difficult for people to find that first job to gain the necessary skills to move on up.

then there's the practical aspect that $7/hr > $0/hr

See the Auto Industry in America with the Big Three and Detroit for an example.

Basically the people negotiating for the union have no idea how businesses or economics works. They literally view companies as these greeedy conglomerates of businessmen that ALWAYS have more cash on hand. This leads to the Union bargaining it's workers into positions that become unsustainable overtime. Which, leads to their worker's jobs eventually disappearing. Either the job's go overseas, or to a non-union area of the country.

Again at the height of their "power" the big three car companies in America had to charge a premium of several thousand dollars on each car to pay for the outweighed Union costs on their products. Now lots of those Union jobs are gone either to non-union labor areas of the south of America, or to overseas.

Not all Union's do this, Catepillar's union actually seems to understand that Catepillar is a business and needs to make a profit and succeed so their jobs can continue to exist.

But union's need to understand they can only ask for so much. If their company doesn't make money and is successful they don't have a job.

Finland doesn't have a legally mandated minimum wage, and has never had one. Our wages are negotiated by unions, and different professions have different guidelines for wages. The only thing that enforces those wages is the contract between workers' and employers' unions aka. contract law.
>hurr if muh guberment didn't tell me my work is worth x monies per hour I'd be working for 1 cent an hour
Get fucked

>competitive


See: UAW vs. nip robots and the US car industry in the 80's/90's.

They protect the jobs of workers who do not deserve it. They ensure they are overpaid and that the employer is held hostage against what would, in reality, be fair treatment. While doing this, they employ extortion racketeering against those they supposedly protect. That's the problem.

I'm a union construction worker
I enjoy making my $36 an hour though there are downfalls
My union is a majority white males
we're forced to have minorities (this is how they fuck us)
Who 9/10 times
Shit workers, lazy, slower
yet
When a job is ending they are laid off last
So while I bust my ass to be one of the white males that they keep around pouring concrete and swinging a sledge hammer all day nigs and women get to clean up and bullshit all day
Unions are a good thing until diversity is pushed on us

I manage several Union shops and the majority non Union shops

The Union shops do get paid less than the Non union shop

The reality is Union shops only power is to file lawsuits against the employer, which they do fairly frequently, that increases overall labor costs so the wages are lowered.

The only thing Unions are good for is to make sure the employer has a written employee handbook that describes the job and specific discipline for violations to policy.

Most businesses have this already and in all but a few very rare occasions have work environment and schedules that are reasonable.

Unions can never force an employer for more pay, benefits, etc, they can only strike, file lawsuits and completely destroy communications between the employees and management.

The Union that is paying you a little more today will be the Union that causes you or future generations to lose theirs.

Look at Union towns and heavily Union careers.

Not a good trend.