Are there any biochemists that lurk Sup Forums? I've been trying to find help elsewhere with this...

Are there any biochemists that lurk Sup Forums? I've been trying to find help elsewhere with this, but I thought id give it a shot. Here we have Retinal in its trans form. How many electrons are involved in conjugation? I thought it to be twelve since there are six double bonds, and it would make sense to me that because of their spacing that it is this. BUT does the oxygen also give its electrons? and if so, would that make it sixteen?

It's 18. Study harder.

How? This is actually a concept we are going over tomorrow, but I was trying to figure out what i'm doing before I show up to class looking like a fool

ExCUSE ME?!

Did you just ASSUME its electron count?!

Literally shaking rn

Okay so I know the answer, typing this up.

Love you user, keep it alive

It's 10

the O is in SP2 as well, how is it 10?

You forgot the virtual electrons

The conjugated electrons are the pi-orbitals that are aligned in the same orientation. These include the C=O of the carbonyl and the obvious double bonds between the carbons. These sum up to 12, of course. There is a resonance structure where all of the electrons are biased toward oxygen so that it has -1 and the ring carbon with methyl attached on the left has +1. This doesn't change the electrons involved in conjugation. Think what would happen if the other case happened, oxygen giving its electrons. The electrons will have to move to the left in a chain, where does the last pair on the left go? The only way this could be a viable resonance is if you removed a nearby hydrogen on the left (either on the methyl or on the lowest vertex of the ring). Unless you know this is happening, the current form has only 12 conjugate electrons.

So I was right on my first assumption? Thanks based user. I was just kind of messed up with oxygen having electron pairs near it as well.

Hopefully that helped. Stop fucking asking these questions on Sup Forums and learn to contact your professors or lab/classmates. fucking idiot faggot

nigger you answered faster than any of them ever could.

to add more detail: by hydrogens being removed, I mean along with their bonding electron pair. This leaves a + charge on a carbon that needs to be stabilized by resonance. It just happens so that this resonance pulls an electron pair off the C=O oxygen so that it interacts with the conjugation system. That's why you need to know whether hydrogens are being removed or not. If not removed, only 12.

faggot

Its 3 if you count for diels alder resonating forms. Maybe its too high brow a topic for your elementary understanding.

Is that base catalyzed hydrogen removal or halide?

to user talking about diels alder, diels alder interactions don't happen purely because of the steric hindrance from the methyls. You don't get the right chain to interact as a result. fucking idiot

whatever removes hydrogens, doesn't matter the method.

OP here again, thanks for the help everyone. didn't know there were so many chemists on Sup Forums. Are you all autistic like myself?

Not every olefin has a methyl group, this allows the diels alder to occur. Its like I'm trying to explain basic organic chemistry to a phossy jawed hillbilly who insists they know how to shake and bake.

Sometimes palladium on carbon

They didn't even answer your question and you're thanking them? Are you special or just beta? Go do ten pushups.

explain how an isomer can arise that allows diels alder

Fucking dumbass, you have to conjugate the pre-orbital oxygen bonds before transiting electrons to the fentanyl deconstructor electromagnetism ions of bismuth

yes, i feel like killing myself because everyone else on this thred obviously doesnt understand chemistry

seeYou illiterate faggot

I mean I'm new to it and I am enjoying it. Its pretty dope.

Trips never lie. PhD chiming in here, yes the methyl groups are too small to sterically hinder the diels alder reaction. If it were a t-butyl group or even an ethyl group that would be more likely but methyl groups dont make much of a difference as far as steric hindrance goes.

That was fun can we do more?

I mean, I have some other problems if you faggots want to argue over them? Though, I know the answer on most...

There's some pretty good info about deals alser being thrown around, check out those posts

Bring them on

You can impress your teacher by explaining that alligators are angry because of the abdula ablangada!

If you cans see the 3-D conformer in your minds eye you should just go back to kindergarten. Honestly its as if you're being willfully difficult, do everyone a favor and buy a model kit so you can physically see how stupid you're being.

You’ll never be a great chemist.
Quit now.

Isn't that meth?