Is it possible to not belong to one of the many Afghan ethnicities?
My Afghan dad told me that we're "technically" Tajik. When I asked what he meant by that, he said that we don't "technically" didn't fall into any of the 14 ethnic groups, but we definitely weren't Pashtun (and less so the other 12) which "automatically" made us Tajik. I've asked him to clarify but he has no idea how to explain it in a way that is digestible or even comprehensible to me.
Note: he grew up in Kabul, I don't know if that has any effect on how culturally different he is to other Tajiks. From even my own experience big cities can tend to wash away old, smaller scale cultures and create a new all-inclusive one (see: the entirety of the USA since its conception)
I did a 23andme test and got a version of R1A. Doesn't really narrow it down a ton but if that helps then there you go.
Carter Mitchell
I am not Afghan but I'd like to express my sincere support for your quest to determine your lineage
Daniel Adams
Thank you kind sir
Mason Martin
What language do you speak at home?
Where is your family/relatives from? Kabul is just a city, you must have a native village?
What is your last name/clan name?
What is your mother's last name/clan name? Where is she from?
Julian Price
Tajiks from eastern afghanistan like panjshir/kabul/logar are just farsiwanized pashtuns
what is your fathers last name and province of origin other than kabul? What does he look like? If he looks asian he's not pashtun/tajik, if he looks like a sandnigger then he's pashtun/tajik, simple as that
you have to also understand persian/tajik isn't a real ethnic group, it's just what people become when they get persianized
Christopher Bailey
Tajik just means Afghan who speaks Persian. There is no big genetic difference between Tajiks and Pasthuns in Afghanistan. Those are the two dominant ethnic groups, "true" Afghans, unlike the Hazaras, Uzbeks, Turkmen, etc. who all arrived in the past centuries and are clearly genetically distinct from Tajiks and Pashtuns.
t. El TajikANO
Colton Thompson
This basically, tajiks and pashtuns descend from the same eastern iranian groups which is why in several provinces they're indistinguishable, also why tajiks in tajikistan looks really different to ones in afghanistan (ones in tajikistan look more mongoloid, would be confused for hazaras or uzbeks in afg)
Grayson Long
-english, he's the only bilingual one and speaks dari -no clue -grandfather took great grandfather's nickname as a last name when coming to USA in fifties -mother is a little bit of every single region of europe except finland and the scandies, irish last name I'd say you couldn't tell us apart from arabs visually, so I guess pashtun/tajik. He says we're not tajik so looks like I have my answer. >Brazil calling others mutts lul So is there a genetic difference between us and our Tajik brothers directly north of us? Some say their more mongoloid but I don't really see it, do see the ruski influence though which I don't like too much.
And if that's the case are Persian speaking pashtuns just tajiks? I thought there had to be a genetic difference. I've always been told pashtuns are taller with longer faces and tajiks shorter/rounder faces, with very slightly more mongoloid features compared to pashtun slightly more europid features
Austin Green
We Wuz Jews
-t Pashtun
Owen Morris
*he says we're not pashtun
Ian Harris
nah like look at vids of people in panjshir, I have both pashtuns/tajiks in my family and I can't tell em apart
What's your fathers last name tho, or yor great grandfathers last name
your father is probably just a native afghan no different to a tajik or pashtun
Joseph Ward
>sandnigger He could be also Nuristani, Gujjar, Uzbek
There are advantages to being a homogeneous society, from what I hear, racial discrimination is quite low in Brazil as compared to other nations. You possibly couldn't care about your lineage because you guys just marry whoever you want to. And there is nothing wrong with that.
In South Asia, lineage and clan are a treasured thing. They tell you who you are, where you come from and what your history is like. I can't expect you to understand this, but knowing your heritage gives you an anchor in life.
The ethnic group I come from is known for being people who always stay true to their word, and scorn money but value honour. My clan is one of the few who are the original inhabitants of the region I come from. These cultural values help define who I want to be as a person.
This is why I am trying to help OP find his heritage. Because it is especially important to know your past when living in a foreign land. It is quite easy to lose your sense of self when surrounded by people you do not share a culture with.
Evan Martinez
nuristanis are no different from the pashtuns also in nuristan
Justin Hill
op is half white
Ryan Jenkins
Are you asking for the nickname I mentioned? I was told it's arabic for traveller (punched it into google translate though, maybe it's not a direct translation), as my great grandpa was part of a failed coup against the Afghan king in the late 20s/early thirties that had him exiled for ten years (during which he had my grandpa) Not giving out my last name though. we're aren't nuristanis for sure, I'm half white as mentioned and still as dark as your average Afghan. My dad says we're surprisingly dark for Afghans though and that could be from some Kashmiri genes on his dad's mom's side
Gavin Young
If you want to actually read the only comprehensive study done pertaining to Afghan genetics, read this:
It'll remove any type of guessing or falsehoods. Pure science. I'll just give you the most important takeaways if you're too lazy:
>Although the worldwide populations are mostly clustered according to geography, Afghan groups appear to show more affinity to non-Afghans than to each others. Pashtun and Hazara in Afghanistan and Pakistan show affinity to their ethnic groups across borders. The Afghan Tajiks show equal distance to Central Asia and to Iran/Caucasus/West Russia. The Afghan Hazara, Afghan Uzbek, and Pakistan Hazara sit between East Asia and the Middle East/Europe-Caucasus/West Russia cluster. That is a very important conclusion.
Afghanistan really is an ethnic mozaic of distinct people. Afghans are more related to other, foreign people than to each other Afghan ethnicities.
>which shows that the Afghan Pashtun and Tajik are closer to North and West Indians than to the other Afghans; Hazara and Uzbek. This cluster also sits between East Europeans and Iranians more close to the Iranians especially to East Azerbaijan.
>MDS and Barrier analysis have identified a significant affinity between Pashtun, Tajik, North Indian, and West Indian populations, creating an Afghan-Indian population structure that excludes the Hazaras, Uzbeks, and the South Indian Dravidian speakers. In addition, gene flow to Afghanistan from India marked by Indian lineages, L-M20, H-M69, and R2a-M124, also seems to mostly involve Pashtuns and Tajiks. This genetic affinity and gene flow suggests interactions that could have existed since at least the establishment of the region's first civilizations at the Indus Valley and the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex.
I hope that puts any questions to rest. We wuz Indus Valley n shit!
Oliver King
well, google your last name, if it's a -zai you're pashtun for sure, otherwise if it's anything else then anything goes, who cares bro you're half afghan, no afghan in afghanistan gives a shit about ethnicity, only butthurt diaspora
Landon Cook
it's arabic (from what I've been told) and the only results I get are from turks using it, so I'm not gonna find anything but thank you Pops says Afghans didn't/don't have last names, would first names help? I have that info at hand
Adam Cooper
I know. There's nothing wrong with finding out your heritage.
Tajik do tend to have shorter statures, but that doesn't really mean anything. Look at pictures of Ahmad Shah Massoud, he's Tajik but you could mistake him for Pashtun. Abdullah Abdullah is a mix of Pashtun and Tajik, he doesn't have any mongoloid features either.
Tajiks in general don't look -that- mongoloid.
>Not giving out my last name though Wimp
>coup against the Afghan king in the late 20s/early thirties That is a nice clue, if can find which clan chiefs revolted against the King, we might have an idea of who your great grandpa was.
Another big clue is the fact you speak Persian (dari), Dari/Farsi is more of a lingua franca and spoken natively by few groups. The thing is it's pretty much what get's spoken in Kabul.
It's possible your grandpa dropped the native tongue and took up Dari as lot of immigrants to big cities do.
>Kashmiris They are light skinned bro
Eli Young
you could just accept that your father was a native kabuli, again as I said, tajik/persian isn't really an ethnic group
Cooper Ortiz
>no afghan in afghanistan gives a shit about ethnicity wtf are you smoking, mate
>would first names help? I have that info at hand Depends. If it's been taken from a historical personage then it could give you a clue or from a different language, then sure it would help.
Henry Walker
>wtf are you smoking, mate Nobody gives a shit about ethnicity in afghanistan trust me. People care a lot more about what province you are from regardless of ethnic group.
Ayden Morris
I'd like to find out who my great grandfather was. I know his name but that's basically it, and I doubt this is doxxing myself since they don't keep records (and even then my grandparents/dad left literally everything in their name two weeks before Christmas Day 1979 so good luck) It's important though, put it nicely Just looked up first names... they're arabic, fucking hell
Nolan Morris
arabic last names don't mean you're arab or of arab origin, same with first names
Julian Green
also it sounds like your great grandfather was a scrub who was for bache saqao against based king amanullah (wanted to secularize afghanistan, wanted to remove islam slowly basically)
Ian Butler
come to Sw*den for your free citizenship and a free waifu and you will know for sure Mohammed
Noah Scott
I know that, I'm 5.5% middle eastern, it's just that they're of no help to me Prolly hah Back to Sup Forums with you, dont tread on me bitch
Sebastian Richardson
You do realize there was a civil war going on in the 90s right? How do you think the warlords were organized? Dostum, Mohaqiq, Massoud, Hekmatyar all led people from their own ethnic groups.
The Tajik and Pashtun Taliban tore apart Kabul in their fighting and killed thousands of Hazara. Wounds like these are still simmering all over Afghanistan.
Maybe your family is westernized, but there is no way in hell a tajik/uzbek/pashtun would let their kids marry a hazara/turkmen in afghanistan
Hunter Sanchez
>bache saqao Kalakani was Tajik. There was a huge controversy over his burial last year
Nicholas Cruz
I looked up that dude and you're probably right. My grandpa was banished for ten years, would it be procedure for that to happen to a lowly warrior loyal to saqao or must he have been a higher up? If this is the case, we're most likely Tajiks from the north (paternal side strictly) and that's still a huge maybe with plenty of room for error. I'll keep doing research and ask some more questions to my dad when I get a chance to
Logan Scott
>let me tell you about your country and people There were tensions but they weren't ethnically motivated for the most part, tajiks of badakhshan/herat/ghazni etc. don't like that panjshiris represent all tajiks now which is why most of them side with pashtuns etc. It's hard to explain but please just believe me.
You're right about the hazara part, pashtuns/tajiks often intermix, but mixing with hazaras and even uzbeks doesn't happen for females, it does happen for males though.
Parker Barnes
Yes it's a bunch of mudslimes wanting to honor his death when in reality, he set the country back a hundred years. Islam and the conservatism/close mindedness associated with it is a disease t b h
Jack Phillips
err, I should say, ethnicity wasn't the major factor behind formation of different militia groups but rather a consequence of things getting so bad that an us vs them mentality developed - prior to the soviets there wasn't discrimination between groups (exception of hazaras)
Juan Jones
also kek, my family is conservative and muslim as fuck
Michael Mitchell
Would "Aryan" be a meme ethnicity for myself? Excluding the fact that I'm only half (Westerners don't realize that) would it be retarded to call myself that? It technically is just the English version of "Iranian" and there's a mystical stigma associated with it.
Brody Carter
calling yourself aryan irl is very autistic, and unless you look like a white iranian/afghan/indian then you're not really 'aryan' anyway
Ryan Bell
it is autistic, but what do you mean by "unless (I) look white?"
William Kelly
'aryans' probably looked like what white looking iranians/afghans/indians today look like (i.e. ones who have brown/blonde hair, light eyes)
Juan Jones
Some Pashtun tribes were also involved in the revolt though
All diaspora think this way that somehow issues that have existed in the past have now been resolved. Afghan society is getting heavily polarised with Pashtun on one side and everyone else on the other. Every thing from the official language of universities, lack of infrastructural development, heck, the presidential candidate speaking in Uzbek is a source of ethnic tension. There was a standoff with guns and shit when Tajik over a mountain because they wanted to reinter kalakani. Shit's crazy. Do I expect another civil war, not really, but I wouldn't be surprised if ethnic riots happen in the future.
Nigga, what? You do realize that the Paki funded Pashtun under Hekmatyar were attacking other militia right? You also realize that the Northern Alliance was formed to kick Pashtun out of the North and stop Taliban from ruling the entire country, right?
Yea. Aryans are officially a linguistic group. And the real Aryans are the Kashmiri and Kalash people.
Eli Thompson
I feel sorry for you bro.
I know how you Middle Easterners/Muslims in America work so hard in this country to fight bad stereotypes and be cool members of the community, and how you were all basically framed on 9/11.
Too bad bc autistic Sup Forumstards you can't be accepted anywhere in the west without people thinking you guys are """rapefugees""" and you have to resort to seeking some sort of identity like "aryan" than being seen as a normal person
I know how hard Muslims have to work and get by in this cunt. It's not fair you deserve to get treated this way by sheltered Sup Forums faggots
t. California bro
Henry Miller
is this satire? i didn't think so until i saw the california part.
The fact that your old man speaks Dari is a pretty strong indicator of Tajik origins though, if you ask me.
Angel Mitchell
I hear the "persians wuz white" thing is a meme all the time. Proofs? I'm not middle eastern and I'm not muslim, but thanks I guess? I'm ex-Sup Forums by the way. I understand how they think and I can easily shrug it off, but identitarianism and nationalism still lies dormant within me which is why I've become so interested in my genetics and family history it's possible, the commiefornia part got me too
Ian Cruz
No. I had many Afghan friends and classmates here
t. bay area fag
Jason Collins
>Afghan society is getting heavily polarised with Pashtun on one side and everyone else on the other. It was at some point during the civil war, but that's simply no longer the case. I get what you're trying to say, but you're putting it as if ethnic groups are at each others throats, when that's simply not the case. Your average inhabitant of afghanistan does not care about ethnicity more than they care about province of origin, a pashtun from logar would rather his daughter marry a tajik from logar than a pashtun from helmand for example - if you get what I mean.
Again, prior to the civil war/soviet invasion, unless you were a hazara, ethnicity didn't really matter. During the civil war, it's natural for people to stick to their own ethnic group - that a bunch of warlords rallied a bunch of subhuman men to fight for their cause (money/power) is another story, your average pashtun/hazara/tajik/etc. all suffered to the same degree by these various militias which didn't give a single shit about ethnicity more or less. It's hard to explain to a foreigner, all of your information comes from western sources more or less.
Kayden Cruz
Doubt it. I actually did the math, ten years in exile plus grandpa was born in '42 (in exile) so the coup thing had to be somewhere around '32, he didn't have to return immediately so we could maybe go back to like '29 but '25 is a stretch.
Angel Collins
would you rather be treated like a normal person or have your feet kissed by this fag? Tough question for many
Kevin Nguyen
I've visited once. I feel very sorry for you. Move as soon as possible, purchase a firearm and learn to become an American.
Levi Jones
fuck off you autistic loser
Asher Sullivan
I am not trying to be antagonistic, just trying to tell you that ethnic tensions aren't what you believe they are - sure they exist, but nowhere near the degree it was during the civil war (ex. if you looked like a hazara and went into a tajik neighborhood, they'd kill you, if gunmen stopped your car and you spoke pashto, they'd kill you etc.), that shit doesn't exist today anymore, that sort of savagery and behaviour and ethnic tribalism is a product of constant wartime with no law.
Brody Lopez
Well he's not kissing my feet, he's saying he understands my situation. A lot better than the reparations/kill whitey/give welfare to all the least functioning members of society because woohoo dysgenics crowd.
Jacob Parker
t. Hans hermann polynaskovich
Noah Perez
>It's hard to explain to a foreigner, all of your information comes from western sources more or less. Nope, Western media knows shit all about Afghanistan's ethnic complexity. I know about this for two reasons, India especially the North-West in many ways mirrors the ethnic divide of Afghanistan. I understand how people who belong to a socio-ethnic group interact with others.
Also, I read mostly reports by Afghan intellectuals and think tanks based in Afghanistas/Pakistan/India
>ethnic groups are at each others throats That isn't how ethnic tension works. Most would tell you that there isn't any ethnic tension to a third person, this is something that is kept private. It's hard to explain, it's just something you know after living in a divided society.
I appreciate the discussion. I never said that the Afghans are divided to that degree.
All I'm saying is that the Afghan society isn't as cohesive as you think. When I talk about tensions, I mean stuff like discriminating against other groups in jobs/education, etc; hatemongering on social media or voting on the basis of ethnic ties.
Luis Rivera
i don't know if it's any different for you but as a mexican american that's lived in some extremely conservative towns, i'd rather be treated like a normal human instead of some special childlike human that needs to be protected from the evil racists. fuck being babied by ignorant white liberals
Leo Jones
>All I'm saying is that the Afghan society isn't as cohesive as you think. When I talk about tensions, I mean stuff like discriminating against other groups in jobs/education, etc; hatemongering on social media or voting on the basis of ethnic ties. I'll agree to that, ethnic nepotism definitely exists - my own father was a victim to it at some point.
It was a good discussion, it's nice to know there are non-afghans with such knowledge of the country/it's people.
Nathaniel Campbell
No, I completely agree. I live in the south and I myself am far more conservative than the average person around here. The majority of people don't jump to conclusions, but race is an identifier and I don't blame them at all. For example, I see a black dude, and I take slightly more precaution due to disproportionate crime statistics I've read. That doesn't mean I hate him or that I am racist towards him, just that I know nothing about him except for the fact that his race commits more crime. I expect everyone else to do the same to me.
Gabriel Ward
>Tajiks from eastern afghanistan like panjshir/kabul/logar are just farsiwanized pashtuns Bad generalisation, From logar and kabul maybe there is some truth to this. However tajiks from north afghanistan especially panjshir, badakshan are alot more fairer and look different.
Grayson Richardson
OP, if you are trying to understand your ancestral roots all i can say is afghanistan and central asia was inhabited by a number of different iranic tribes particularly the bactrians(North Afg) and sogdians(located present day tajik-uzbekistan). They along with persian colonists, other numerous invaders are generally believed to be the primary ancestors of modern day tajiks.
William Morris
it's really not, tajiks have the same dna composition as pashtuns, and different from tajikistani tajiks or iranians - it suggests both groups descend from the same groups
Ryan Thomas
Yea, there are aspects of Afghanistan that I really like looking into especially history such as Durrani winning what was perhaps the largest medieval battle ever against India, the Great Game, the war with the Soviets, etc. I also like reading about Pashtun culture.
I can't help but feel sad about how much Afghanistan has regressed though. It's pretty much the worst place to be born in South Asia, and that's saying something.
Justified or not, that is racist. Anyway, I don't hate racists per se, I get where they're coming from. You have a certain way of life and a certain image of what society should be like, and then you have to cope with people who look different, dress different, eat different and act different. It's easy to feel concerned and angry about how this may affect your way of life. I think racism is despicable, but I understand why people are racists. It allows them to make sense of a world that is rapidly changing and in which they feel they're being left behind.
I instead hate the liberals who try to demonize people by calling them 'bigots/racists' and encourage shutting them out, ostracizing them. Unless you engage with people you'll just put them in a bubble of their own, and encourage others to stay quiet about what they really believe.
Ayden Harris
Don't feel too bad, if afghans were worth a damn it wouldn't be a shithole today even with it's bad geography/geopolitics/neighbors, also I wouldn't consider us south asian but w.e another argument for another time
Joshua Rogers
>racism, noun >prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior. >based on the belief that one's own race is superior. It's not racist. And even if it was, I'm not gonna be in like a meme fighting stance or some shit, I take precautions in my mind. Making him aware of that thought would be equally as retarded as racism.
Kevin Long
It's just that Afghanistan could have been so much more without foreign meddling.
Afghanistan at least has the best national anthem in South Asia.
>South Asia It's a little controversial, but consensus seems to be that is in both South and Central Asia, but more South.
I don't want to debate this now, let's just agree to disagree.
Parker Powell
>Bactria
you are a greek
Liam Williams
Yea i agree that they are similar in origin but by saying they are all farsiwanised pashtuns is a little disingenuous. I could make the same claim for pashtuns being pashtunised tajiks. Also i know heaps of afghans both tajik and pashtun and there is a somewhat clear distinction especially for panjshiri tajiks.
Julian Jackson
they are definitely a farsiwanized east iranian group, they gave up their own native eastern iranian language like pashto to a western iranian language of farsi
Matthew Wilson
On a linguistic level yea but there were plenty of eastern iranian languages that got wiped out but u were saying previously that they were all just pashtuns previously, when there are some differences.
Isaac Smith
Tajik is basically a synonym for Persian/Hazara as far as ethnicity goes.