Jordan vs Lebron

I'm going to try and be as reasonable as I can and try to finish this debate once and for all on this autistic board, but I know Sup Forums loves to be contrarian for the sake of being contrarian so I doubt any of you will agree with me.

Lebron is the better all-around player. Better on offense and better on defense. He's already breaking most of Jordan's records and other all-time records, but the caveat here is Lebron started playing straight out of high school, which is an accomplishment and feat in it's own right, while Jordan played throughout college and was winning championships there, as well.

While Lebron is the better overall player, Jordan is infinitely the more clutch evident by the 6- 0 finals record.

Both players didn't carry any of their respective championship teams alone though. Jordan had Pippen and Lebron had Bosh/Wade and Kyrie/Love.

Jordan played in a more physical era of basketball, but at the same time the players were vastly less skilled and technically sound than they all are today.

"Lebron plays in the weaker conference." That's true today, but he still had to beat *some* of the best nba teams of all time in the spurs and the most winningest team of all time in the warriors. Jordan played in the tougher conference but went up against cupcake western conference teams in the finals.

All this to say, Jordan really transcended the game more than Lebron ever has with Space Jam and his shoes, its not even close that Jordan still might go down as the GOAT simply because of the impact he had on the game and the culture of black youth.


That's all.

pls reply

Jordan's killer instinct wins the day... always.

MJ too light in the tail to guard Lebron.

We talking about a man who gambled so far as to have his father killed by the Chicago mafia.

Real degenerate competitive shit.

>We talking about a man who gambled so far as to have his father killed by the Chicago mafia.
kek


you believe this is what happened

>type all this shit
>say literally nothing

That's almost impressive

Larry Bird without career fucking injuries > Jordan

Welcome to higher education

>LeBron breaking Jordan's records
MJ took 18 months off his prime and completed in college.
>LeBron better on offense and defense
Nice joke. LeBron has the position and size advantage for his rebounds. However LeBron has better passing stats.
>Jordan went up against cupcake western conference teams in the playoffs
Weakest team he faced was the Clyde's Trailblazers. In his second 3 peat he went up against the best defensive PG of all time Payton, the all time assists and steals leader Stockton without reaching a game 7

LeBron about to be 3-5 with more talent than Jordan had on the offensive side.

>MJ took 18 months off his prime and completed in college.
MJ came out as a junior.

>a fucking leaf

Remember back in 2015 when we had Jordan vs. Cavs Australian player? Shit was hilarious!

Kobe > LeBron

kek

>a American literally knowing nothing about his sport
Oh wait never mind. A Canadian man invented basketball.

It's fucking hilarious how Maker fans have actually deluded themselves into thinking Kobe is some sort of historically great player. He's literally not even top 20 all time

That's obvious...Kobe with Shaq threepeated. LeBron with Shaq couldnt even make it to the finals in a weak east.

Shaq was fat as fuck at that point

Kobe was pretty much the most shameless chucker of all time.

Lebron > Kobe (and everyone knows it)

...

Kobe is Paul Pierce Tier not even memeing

Kobe's '08-10 run alone is better than anything LeBum's ever done.

How the fuck can you even say lebrons offense is better. Goddam people are just stupid. He's closer to Kareem than he is to Mj

yep.

his last game was clowinish too.

>Set record for biggest loss in a elimination game
>Get a title over the Magic when the Celtics get hurt
>Get another titles when the Celtics are still injured and go 6-24 in the final

Bump

wouldnt jordan have 9 straight titles if he didnt quit and play baseball?

how is this never mentioned?

>if he didnt quit and play baseball?

people still believe this?

Jordan was not the goat, Wilt was. Only plebs from TV always make comparisons to MJ because it's the only thing plebs^2 that watch them can understand.
As for you """arguments""": Lebron playing better defence is fucking absurd. Le Chase down block and Le go for Steal on passing lane man. Melo and Kobe both pissed on him in h2h just couple of year ago.
As for offensive abilities, all LeGod newfags like to forget that he only learned how to shoot 3 this year and before that he did it in Miami with mid range jumper (and later lost it again). Before that fucking RAJON RONDO guarded him with no consequences. MJ would kill anyone with such height disadvantage. This makes him not only more skilled offensive 1v1 player but also better on offence in general negating LJ passing ability. He can win with O bums while Lebron need shooters to stretch D. That's why MJ and Kobe had so much success in playoffs with good teammates, the 1v1 shit is unguardable and opponents get bad 2 possession sequences which prevents them from making runs.
It's actually hilarious how newfaggotry and playing in East boosted LeBron's ranking. Outside of 2012-13 season he would never be on best team if he played in the West. And it was also the only variation of the team where he is more valuable than anybody he's compared to.

This tbqh. Larry would have gotten so many more if he stayed healthy AND Len Bias didn't do coke.

LeBron's h2h vs either Carmelo or Kobe is stacked hilariously in Lebron's favor.

My 75 year old dad says the same thing.

He laughs at people like Bill Simmons who say Bill Russell was better than Wilt.

Ok basketball reference man. Try watching games where it was clear LeBron tried and he actually guarded Kobe/Melo. Compare that to how Kawhi defended him or to Jordan's games. The anticipation and overall hunger is not there for chasedownblock man. Plus finals where Kawhi destroyed him exposed his inability in post, despite learning from Hakeem. Which is never brought up about him, but always about Dwight f.e.
Fuck that tool Simmons, even plebbit turned on him after all his shit (although I suspect many anons go there and contribute to that). Kekltics should bury his californicated ass for licking LJ's ass and troll him out of existence. But Wilt thing is obvious, even if you don't see all the Youtube vids. His fatter lazier obnoxious version(Shaq) got 4 championships and had like 60%TS and 120 off rating while on Miami stage of his career. His retarded version (Dwight) punked every other center and was center piece of team that made finals. His smaller/weaker versions (AD, KAT) already owning league with insane stats. Like I understand you compare/debate Hakeem's moves to counter Wilt's physical advantage, but once you see vids of Wilt's shooting versatility and agility there's no debate. Some fucks even believe that he will have trouble dominating in current/90's league. But that's kudos to NBA pr machine, they have their fucking "activist hypocrite KAJ/Shaqs fun loving (((character)))/Bill the winna but have nothing to do in life outside NBA" trifecta to promote. Wilt had his own way of doing things and was too toxic of an Alpha. It's got so bad they barely put him on top5 centers list. But that type of media is dying and I can't wait to spit on their grave.

Did you see that thing that came out the other day proving that Wilt was putting up big numbers in pro games at 16 under an assumed name?

not chicago mafia but i believe it. its too random otherwise.

>Nice joke.

lebron is bigger, faster and stronger and would shut down jorden in defense

>Lebron is the better all-around player. Better on offense and better on defense.
confirmed for being clueless millennial with a worthless opinion.

Surely no one actually believes LeBron is a better defender? He's better athletically and a better passer. That's literally it.

None of this matters because the GOAT is kareem anyway

Only casuals think Jordan is better than LeBron

>wilt
>ahead of jordan kareem and russell

Ok based moscow

Let me know when LeBron wins a scoring title and Defensive Player of the Year in the same year, then maybe we'll talk.

He was DEFINITELY better than Russell. PUHleeze.

Could have been better than KAJ and MJ too.

Different time. Difference motivation. Different media. Different money etc.

You should talk to some old heads who actually saw these dudes play. They'll straight up laugh at you for saying Russell was better than Russell. That was a bullshit media meme.

Who cares. Stats are overrated.

See: Russell Westbrook's season this year.

Made up talking head bullshit. Real basketball people know better.

>'Russell was better than Russell'
>Russell was Russell than Russell
>Russell was Russell Russell Russell
>Russell Russell Russell Russell Russell

Oh wow a typo. How pedantic of you. You seem cool.

>I'm going to try and be as reasonable as I can
>Jordan is infinitely the more clutch evident by the 6- 0 finals record.
what a laff

I decided to have fun with your typo since mentioning Russell's record 11 championships vs Wilt's 2 championships would have shut ur ridiculous argument down immediately

Jordan would have got REEMED if he went to the league right out of high school.

I'm old enough to have watched all of both of their careers.

imho Lebron is the better all around player.

Wilt didn't give a fuck. He went to LA because they had hotter chicks.

Russell's teams were STACKED.

The games were on tape delay, there was no sneaker money. Wilt just didn't care all that much. Shaq was similar.

But Wilt was a farrrrrrr more dominant player than Russell ever was.

This. Sports media (along with Nike) fucked up basketball. Muh triple double is basically arbitrary. If I were a GM I'd rather have Conley than Westbrook.

>def poy
>stats

...

Kek. Player of the year.

You mean the guy who watched Kobe's last game and decided to play that way all of the time?

That stupid stunt OKC pulled this season is going to set the franchise back for years to come.

So you've watched LeBron get smoked in multiple finals and straight up quit his last game with his first go round with the Cavs.

I'm not even talking about Westbrook, never mentioned him once, you retard. No surprise lebron fanboys are complete dumbasses.

Basketball is a team sport, despite what ESPN/Nike would have you believe.

What a pathetic response.

Wilt is the only guy from that era who belongs in the all-time greats discussion but he's at best the third best center behind Kareem and Hakeem.

Shaq is hard to judge because his ceiling was so far above his floor.

Yeah, nothing to say except rings nu-male Ringer regular? I'm sure Horry is getting into HoF anyday now since he's so high on your priority factors list. And with how much the likes of (You) use "how would he do in current year" argunemnt, putting KAJ was not only a sign of how fucking brainwashed you are by NBA's pr machine, but a self inflicted check-mate. Now tell me how would such a great do in a league full of skiny,shootrin 3s, running centers? Oh that's right he would be a fucking LIABILITY on defence while not getting anybody in trouble with his

>more talent
Bulls were fucking stacked bud. Jordan was never an underdog like lebron is every finals

Yep. Media and the shoe companies push this ring bullshit. It's not real.

And let's be real, it completely fucked up the league.

It's Hollywood bullshit that has nothing to do with sports.

Take Pippen away from Jordan and he is basically a Rudy Gay

All around offense goes to bronny tho. Jordan is the better scorer lebron is pass first

They hurt themselves more than anybody with this BS. NBA started tracking 8 years later than soccer but overtook them in analysis application almost instantly. Now instead of taking over football and their tool comissioner fuckery they started to align with backwards media fucks, who are afraid that effectiveness talks would be boring. But true reason ofc is that hags like Beadle or whatever the fuck another "bball expert" woman is there isn't talented enough to talk about it with substance. How hard it is to visually present why Westbrook's style of play sucks? Fuck this, we're going to crown 29% shooting man and MVP. And that spreads to comisarro with his fucking bathroom bans. Ofcourse they pay you big bucks and don't trash your athletes fuck ups don't focus on problems like PEDs, but at the end of the day there's shit ton of people and ways to improve on presenting. Basketball has tons of interesting topics, if you're a fan for 10+ years you can speak about it endlessly + there's no proper NBA manager game turn autism onto itself. Even normie homer like Simmons got insane following from that premise alone. But no, everything gotta be shit because ESPN is shit (doubly so after retarded election)

Russian bro knows more about actual basketball, than you meme babies.

Don't fall for this meme with passing. LeBron got BTFO by passing team while he was the best passer in game by far. Passing is byproduct of "style" of play, so it's not freely applicable. Best passer can't just decide to pass it up a little bit without proper teammates skills. The only variation of team structure that would work best with him instead of anybody else was Miami 2012-13. It was one of the gems of team building in last decade. Unique finishing ability on off-the-steal fast breaks (can quaterback pass himself and can be receiver) and being perfect fit for defence that will force max amount of those turnovers. That or you're playing against him+any other driving guard in half court situation. You can't allow them to drive, so you settle for open jumpshots which gives them 50 FG% and you start with much less fast break opportunities It's neverending circle of misery, you offence is opressed by their defence and sucks because of their offence. And your defence sucks cause you settle for open jumpers by talented & rightly built NBA team as best case scenario. When people have discussions about best teams very few bring that concept up. Although it would be like 3rd most important after center dominance and ability to shoot insane 3pt % despite elite defence like what Curry does.

>Bulls were fucking stacked bud
lol no. lebron plays on the most stacked and most expensive team in nba history. while jordan was on the bulls, the only other player to ever make the all star team was pippen. he literally never played with more than one all star.

Good post vlad

if lebron had prime shaq he would've 5peated and I'm not even memeing

and Kevin Durant wouldn't have signed with the Warriors back then.

LeBron is better and the people who bring up finals records are retarded because Lebron brought many teams to the finals that had no business being there. His only bad finals was the 2011 finals.

Also, count every loss that Jordan didn't make it to the finals as a finals loss and he's not "6-0" anymore.

To be fair, Lebron has been an elite defender. He simply didn't have the stamina to guard the best player on the opposing team, rebound, then carry on offense. He has tried more than once, but it only fucked him over in an era dominated by the pick and roll.

You can't compare players across generations. Jordan played in an era with no zone defense. He also played in an era with hand checking and referees more willing to let dirty plays go.

Oh please. Jordan had elite as fuck role players including Rodman who had absolutely no fear in going up against prime Shaq despite being noticeably smaller.

>I rate the pre-80s legends despite only maybe 10% of their career being taped, thusly proving I'm just a gullible moron who feasts on the mythology NBA feeds me

Most of you are just useful idiots, fucking narratives that shape our collective minds change every few years, luckily for NBA and the media you can't remember shit and are easy to deceive because you're fucking fools.

Well, I suppose a Bosnian would know better than anybody about false narratives

How is LeBron better on offense? He's better at passing and memeshooting but Jordan is better at everything else and he'd be a better memeshooter if teams shot 3s back then like they do now.

Jordan created a new kind of basketball, the next step.

LeBron is just the best in Jordan's basketball. Like a puppet or a prophet when MJ was the whole religion.

How is Jordan better at scoring? LeBron has size and physicality. LeBron is like a freight rain that can't be defended by a regular Forward or Centre because of size and speed. He's also turned into a very good 3 shooter. You can say that maybe Jordan would be as good as 3s if he was in this era, but that's speculation. What we do know is that LeBron can shoot 3s, and Jordan couldn't

now this is some autism

How is Jordan not better at scoring? He had post moves, better footwork, better midrange and could actually hit his free throws at a great rate unlike LeBron who is a below average free throw shooter. No one could guard him

>How is Jordan better at scoring?

He has a higher career ppg average than lebron, and that's including Jordan's Wizards years when he was like 41 years old.

>You can say that maybe Jordan would be as good as 3s if he was in this era, but that's speculation.

True, but considering that we know that Jordan had an excellent jumpshot, I think it's fair to say that he would be an excellent 3-point shooter if he had played in the current era.

lebron is a better rebounded and passer.

mj couldn't get passed the first round before pippen, he won one game TOTAL in the play offs before pippen.

lebron took a shitty ass team to the finals

Well, Jordan wasn't asked to pass often, and in his prime he still got more assists than guys like Curry, Kyrie and Thomas get now. They tried playing him as a point guard for a while and he averaged double digit assists. As for Pippen, Jordan was at the Bulls for 2 years before Pippen joined, and one of those years he was injured for the majority of the season and just came back before the playoffs

jordan is great, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying if lebron beats this gsw team, and gets another ring or two before retiring, he has an argument.

if he loses this finals then its over for the mj talk imo

>Doug Collins decided to move Jordan to the point guard spot against Seattle on March 11, 1989. He finished that game with 15 assists. Two days later, he had a game of 21/14/14 against the Pacers in just 30 minutes of playing time in a 32-point blowout win. He reached the triple double mark in just 21 minutes.
Jordan continued to play at the PG spot until the end of the season. In these 24 games he averaged 30.4 pts, 9.2 rebs, 10.7 asts & 2.4 stls. Between March 24 and April 14, 1989, he recorded a triple double in ten of the eleven games, including seven consecutive ones. In the game he didn’t record a TD, he finished with 40 points, 11 assists and 7 rebounds. In the featured game above, he had 16 assists against the Lakers and tied his career-high which was set in his rookie year – Three days later, on March 24, he set a new career-high with 17 assists at Portland. In the first 3 quarters of this game he rarely shoots the ball. In the 4th, he scores 12 points and leads the Bulls to the victory.

>lebron took a shitty ass team to the finals
One of the most overrated accomplishments ever. He only had to beat two .500 teams that were missing their best players and a washed up pistons team. Probably the easiest road to the finals ever

lebron is the most overrated player in nba history
chosen one my ass, with the team mates he's played with since '10 he should have won at least 5 championships by now.

I'ver never heard of a player that has gotten more sugar blown up his ass than lebron james. The fact that he's won the mvp as often as he as is another fucking joke

He's also the most boring and robotic-in-his-moves looking scorer I've seen

god I hate that guy so much

...

> MUH COMPETITIVE
> MUH KILLER INSTINCT

its like americans are brainwashed

>Lebron brought many teams to the finals that had no business being there
like who? the miami heat with three hall of famers? or the cavs who are the most expensive team in the history of the league?

nice "killer instinct" there when he got swept in the 1st round lol

This argument is irrelevant. Kareem is the GOAT.

>This argument is irrelevant. Hakeem is the GOAT.
fix'd

>All this to say, Jordan really transcended the game more than Lebron ever has with Space Jam and his shoes, its not even close that Jordan still might go down as the GOAT simply because of the impact he had on the game and the culture of black youth.
No fucking shit. I'm amazed that people don't realize that being the GOAT is much more than 6 for 6. It's all the moments he created, all the stories told of his feats, it's the intrigue of the retirement and baseball, coming back and dominating, it's the way he played the game, it's how he influenced the game, it's how much the game grew globally because of him.

His GOAT resume is untouchable.

>How is Jordan better at scoring?
Doesn't watch basketball.

Jordan never would have been allowed to be an owner if he was banned for gambling, nevermind the fact that David Stern pushed for him to be an owner.

>all the stories told of his feats, it's the intrigue of the retirement and baseball, coming back and dominating, it's the way he played the game, it's how he influenced the game, it's how much the game grew globally because of him
Why not have David Stern as the fucking GOAT then. Stick to wrestling man

Jordan had a greater variety of methods for scoring. LeBron couldn't score efficiently outside of the restricted area for most of his career