Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1868

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
djtguide.neocities.org/

Discord:
discord.gg/neA547g

Previous thread

Other urls found in this thread:

djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#って(2)
djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#する(1)
djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#下さい・ください
alc.co.jp/jpn/article/faq/03/106.html
mega.nz/#F!lBx1CLoZ!HG3VQVhSVyl8VLs58wgqCA
mega.nz/#F!9RATULwC!1bCbVSeCMmCPJOQr_vuycA
sakubi.neocities.org/
web.archive.org/web/20151117033458/http://www.studytoday.com/JLPT.asp?lang=EN
play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ichi2.anki&hl=jp
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

乙

Where is the best place to post about Japanese novels? Off the top of my head, there would be three places: Sup Forums DJT, /jp/ DJT, and the /jp/ LN/WN thread. Each has its drawbacks; if you post it on either DJT you're missing out on the audience that doesn't check the other one, and on the LN/WN thread it'd be somewhat off-topic since that doesn't include normal novels, and also would have less visibility than either DJT.

おはよー

what do you even mean by posting about novels
in any case maybe a japanese site would be better

As in "Today I read the first few chapters of (novel). I liked/disliked it because (reasons). It was (level of complexity), for my level having studied for (amount of time) though it was manageable. I would (recommend/not recommend) it to anons here."

The DJT library guy(s?) has put together a brilliant resource and I plan to use it a lot more from here on out since I'm getting a bit burned out on VNs at the moment. But unlike some other things, with untranslated novels there's not a singular place it goes, there are a few different threads you could post about them in.

So if 僕 is for youngsters and 俺 is for edgy teenagers, does that mean I have to use 私 by default?

Does anyone have any recs for talkshows to listen to? Preferably something I could download.
Need something to listen to when I commute.

Can someone explain the use of the て form in both of these situations?

1. Why だってand not just だった?

2. What does する mean here and why て?

>1. Why だってand not just だった?
This is most likely だ + the quote market って.
djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#って(2)

>2. What does する mean here and why て?
する can mean "wear" when applied to small clothing items like a watch, or in this case, a necktie.
djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#する(1)
The te-form of verbs can be used as a command form (shortened form of ~てください) , so in that sentence, he's telling Yotsuba to wear a necktie, too.
djt.neocities.org/bunpou/full_day.html#下さい・ください

1. I don't think it's that. Here's the full context

2. Thanks. For some reason I thought that Yotsuba said both of the lines in that panel.

forgot pic

1. The first poster is right on that "だ + the quote market って". "What kind of dream (are you saying it was)?"

2. You are correct. He got the "wear" nuance of する right but it's not that "he's telling Yotsuba to wear a necktie, too". Yotsuba is saying herself that she, too, will don a necktie.

Tbqh I think Yotsuba is kind of hard for beginners. Decent amount of slang and all that. People say it's shit but I still say everyone should slog through Hanahira. Even it can be hard but by the time you get out you are a solid beginner rather than babby-tier.

> For some reason I thought that Yotsuba said both of the lines in that panel.

Yeah, the font alone makes that clear.

>Yotsuba is saying herself that she, too, will don a necktie.

Isn't she still using the て form as a request, albeit in awkward five-year-old Japanese?

Ah, 1. makes sense now. Thanks. I thought it was だった (what kind of dream was it?) just changed to て form at first.

2. I think if you look very closely the fonts of the two text bubbles are slightly different (the one on the left slightly bolder), so maybe that means Dad said the one on the right? It's probably just that she's speaking a tiny bit louder in the 2nd bubble, but itjust seems weird giving a command to yourself

Like, if she were to declare that she's going to don a neck tie too, why not "よつばもネクタイする!"

I just don't understand why she'd use て instead of non-past form, or the difference in meaning between the two

If it's a question, just post it on all three. We would benefit from more intermediate/advanced questions.

My impression is that she's giving the command to her dad (do a tie for me) in broken Japanese. I haven't read Yotsuba in a while but I can't picture her using causative form.

"Bread contains salt."

- パンは塩が含まれる
- パンは塩を含んでいる
- パンは塩を含む

All of these are accepted on Duolingo, but I couldn't find a way to make 含める work. "My family includes a cat" accepts "俺の家族は猫を含める", so am I missing some nuance or is this just automated correction being limited?

who care's they're all unnatural non-native sentences, go use a real learning system

You, no doubt, display an almost tangible aura of language mastery.
I am humbled you'd stoop down to provide me - a mere baby - some advice. Thank you!

damn right i can call you a baka in at least 3 different languages

but really duolingo is garbage and i don't know why you would use it when the guide gives you far better resources

It wouldn't surprise me if it was the latter. 含む and 含める seems to be another one of those verb sets like 知る/知らせる 済ます/済ませる 任す/任せる. At a passing glance it's like the potential or causative forms of a verb have kind of evolved into their own nuance. I used to speculate that maybe the -える forms might be more polite (or at the very least are dependent upon who is the subject), like when using 任せる when talking about the 2nd person or a 3rd person, but even if there is some truth in that, it's clearly not that simple. I do suspect there is more of a strong causality with -える version, too.. the one American that knows a lot of etymology could probably provide some insight, and if not that, I'd just keep gathering examples of how and when the two forms are used as you read more and more.

alc.co.jp/jpn/article/faq/03/106.html

first result on google

含める is more of an action, 含む when only used with only は+を but no に is showing a relationship but not an action.

スタンが脱出経路を確保してる。
Why is が used here instead of の?

Well, when in doubt just google it. It's such an obvious thing that I'm a little embarrassed that I forgot it, haha. Thanks; I don't quite understand your rough take on 含む but I'm sure the Japanese text should suffice if I were to translate it. As expected, -える "does" more than it "describes".

Because スタン is doing the 確保してる.

Oh of course, I'm stupid
I assumed the person speaking was the one going to secure Stan's escape route for some reason
Thanks for clearing that up

Are you sure スタン means Stan and not a stun?

Yeah Stan's a character

僕が君に生きていてほしい
I'm still a bit confused about に, does this mean "I want to live because of you" or "I want you to live"?

The second one. (人)に~してほしい is "want (人) to ~".

I see
That's very helpful
ありがと!

I tried reading 最強伝説黒沢 today, it was far more difficult than I expected it to be. I read it before in English, and really enjoyed it, but I guess it'll be a while longer before I can enjoy it again in Japanese.

I don't really understand this sentence, apparently the translation says that it's "The milk that Fuuka bought was low-fat."

Looking at the の I can tell it's probably a relative clause, but what's the last thing being modified? And the traditional meaning of っけ doesn't fit with this meaning either.

I'm guessing that the meaning of this sentence is just "Ah, that milk that Fuuka bought, again?" and an incomplete sentence, which is responded to in her next word bubble. Is this right?

あ oh

風香の買ってきたそれ that thing fuuka bought
の is a subject marker here
japanese has an animacy hierarchy so you don't have to conjugate relative verbs to the passive if it's object that the modified noun was being acted on

低脂肪乳だっけ low fat milk, was it?
っけ is tagging 低脂肪乳だ as a clause being turned into a confirmation question. you can think of this specific usage as だっけ being a construct of its own.

>if it's object
if it's obvious*

Why does she look so sinister?

Kuleshov effect - basically you're interpreting it through your pre-existing assumptions/conditions' lens. That can only mean you're in deep debt with Dekinai-chan, HAVE YOU BEEN SLACKING AND NOT GIVING YOUR ALL, user?

Nothing to do with Japanese but seriously what the hell is this panel supposed to be

It's a mirror so you can see around a corner

oh
those are kinda foreign to countries with a nig nog populations as they do not remain unsullied for long
possibly why arcades in japan are still a thing

Remember Timezone?

うん、悔しいけど

...

彼女がない時の気持ち

any good manga for someone just starting to relearn Japanese ?

What do you like to read?

anything desu. Something funny is always good.

ひとりぼっちの○○生活
mega.nz/#F!lBx1CLoZ!HG3VQVhSVyl8VLs58wgqCA
三ツ星カラーズ
mega.nz/#F!9RATULwC!1bCbVSeCMmCPJOQr_vuycA

私は死ぬを求める。

僕も、自分のクローンで

私は殺てください。

ナイフをください

なんだかおかしくなってきた

暗く話ですね、最初から
おやすみ

Fuck off, thanks. Yours truly, /jp/.

Fuck off where? This is Sup Forums.

Spam autist (who stated he goes to the Sup Forums thread before) has been spamming the /jp/ thread with copypasted questions from reddit for days.

Sounds like some sperg from /jp/, with that sort of autism.
Why are you looking to blame anons from an entirely different board for autism on the one board known for its autism above everything else?

>spamming the /jp/ thread with copypasted questions from reddit for days
Fucking kek.

What are you talking about? Sup Forums is the most autistic board on Sup Forums.

ありがと user

Sup Forums gets shit for being a normalfag board and being Sup Forums 2.0. So what it is, autism or normalfaggotry?

>normalfag
>Sup Forums 2.0
user, you have a very disturbed sense of reality. You need to see a psychologist.

>being Sup Forums 2.0.
ding ding ding, we have a winner
pure weaponized autism

citation needed

Sup Forums is as normalfag as it gets

Look no further.

have you ever been on Sup Forums before?

Sup Forums is nothing like that except for the flags

ひとりぼっちの○○生活 doesn't have furigana but most of the dialogue is short. 三ツ星カラーズ has furigana and aside from a slangy phrase or more obscure word here and there, it's even lower in complexity than the first one.

They are by the same mangaka so if you enjoy one, chances are you'll enjoy the other.

It's a reference to normalfaggotry, user. /jp/ is the autism board; that's how everyone else views it.

Whatever you are trying to achieve by sperging out on a thread on Sup Forums really isn't going to be productive. People are either going to ignore you or mock you.

/jp/ is viewed in general as a containment board for weebs and autism.

The odds of an user who spends his time shitposting on boards like Sup Forums bothering to care about /jp/ is slim to nil. Enjoy your stay.

>The odds of an user who spends his time shitposting on boards like Sup Forums bothering to care about /jp/ is slim to nil.
I'll take "famous personas for 500 dollars". Who is "Sakurautist"? (the troll impersonating the sakura poster, not the actual sakuraposter)

>look up 手出し on Jisho
>only definition is meddling; interfering

Requesting some guidance, so I could go back to studying.

I learnt kana and continue to do radicals deck (just in case).
For kanji I started doing the KanjiDamage+ deck recently, not sure how it will work out.
I tried to do Kim, but some time after the first chapter got overwhelmed and dropped it, so now that I have time again I started to read "Japanese the manga way", since it was advised for grammar some time before.

Should I stick to it or force through Kim? And when exactly should I start doing the core deck?

sakubi.neocities.org/

>Another grammar guide
Fuck, I already had 3 to choose. Now there's 4 of them.

>Read through guide, start doing vocab and throw yourself into media ASAP
I failed at Kim, and manga book is 200 pages long. Maybe this would work better because of my ADHD. Still lack vocab though.

How accurate is this?

>325-600 Hours for N5
What the fuck

>Should I stick to it
Sounds like a good plan. Japanese: The Manga Way breaks sentences down and is full of examples taken straight from manga, so they aren't stiff or at worse, outright unnatural sentences from a random internet grammar guide.
The book really isn't as long as you'd think. Many of the pages have space taken up from manga images, so you aren't chewing through 200 pages of text.
Worse case scenario you'll still learn something and be exposed to native media in the process.

Source of that table:
web.archive.org/web/20151117033458/http://www.studytoday.com/JLPT.asp?lang=EN
Call me a cynic but it is somewhat hard to swallow the claims from a no longer existing website which appears to be involved with the business of language schools.

>引く
What does she mean?

Similar to "lame" or "odd/weird", in this context. As in a lame joke or that it would be unfitting/not cool if あかり were good at arm wrestling.

Same as どん引き.

I could swear last time I saw a chart like this it said non-kanji foreknowledge students needed 8.000 hours for N1.

Using this chart as reference, I'm pretty sure I'm around N3 with barely over 500 hours of study, Using that chart as reference, I'd think maybe I could get up to N1 with 1500 hours of study, which sounds pretty optimistic!

Thanks.

How long have you been studying?

16 months, I must say the long-term exposure is also a big factor here. I've been slowly picking up the pace too, so I won't take another 32 months to reach that - I'm thinking maybe by the end of 2018.

If you study effectively and don't learn to handwrite I think you can get to N1 level in under 2000 (but definitely more than 1000). "N1 level" being the level at which the test doesn't feel insanely difficult and you don't have to rely on luck.

So basically 2000 hours of active study (anki or reading/listening to things that are difficult but comprehensible) is enough.

What makes duolingo garbage? It would be nice to have something to study with on my phone along with everything in the guide.

>It would be nice to have something to study with on my phone
Ankidroid works well on the phone, in case you weren't aware of it.
play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ichi2.anki&hl=jp

Learning to write isn't really a waste of time eventhough I wouldn't recommend it if you don't have good prior kanji reading abilities in the 1000+.

It really helped me to review all the readings of all kanji individually and to differentiate better similar kanji since I had to learn the specific 部首 of each kanji.

It's also really handy when it comes to remembering new kanji.

I was not thank you user!

So apparently anki 2.0 uses a vulnerable browser library and anki 2.1 is unstable...

I really wish there was a good alternative, but anki's customizability and addon support are just too good for anything else to even compete.

What does [sentence]かと[sentence] mean?

A quotation. Post the actual sentence when asking for help.

he's too embarrassed to even post it anonymously

>a vulnerable browser library
What does that mean for the user?

that installing it leaves him vulnerable to dragnet ransomware and hours of financial difficulty and work restoring the damage

Thanks Obama.

It's not a waste of time if you end up needing to write. It's absolutely a waste of time if you never end up needing to write.

Note though that I would agree that it is worth learning the basic characters like 水日火 etc so that you can at least write kanji properly when given a reference, but you don't really need to learn to write every one of them. You can get along pretty well even if you never realize that 儀議 are different kanji.

Could someone tell me what the clause 抜けるような青空をバックに means in 抜けるような青空をバックに、才人の顔をまじまじと覗き込んでいる女の子が言った。(from ゼロの使い魔)

What meaning of 抜ける is describing 青空 here? And how does the clause itself relate to the sentence?

Also, on an unrelated note, what's a good way to find Japanese skype friends?

「ぬけるような」「ぬけるように」の形で、すき通っているさまをいう。 「 - ・けるような青空」 「 - ・けるように白い肌」

So something like clear blue sky? And is it saying that 才と is looking back at the clear blue sky (as he's being stared at)?

Wait, where does the invasion come from in this?

...maybe you should read something easier or with translations for a bit

You could take out the entire 抜けるような青空をバックに clause without changing the main meaning of the sentence.