***DON'T FORGET YOU HAVE TO REGISTER TO VOTE BY 7TH JUNE*** It takes 2 minutes. >gov.uk/register-to-vote >enter details including NI number >... >vote leave
The only part of the EU that we get to directly elect is the European Parliament. The EU Parl do not get to initiate, alter or reject legislation. They merely rubber-stamp it. In this regard, the EU is no more democratic than the Soviet and Chinese council systems, so stop using 'but we vote for MEPs' as your argument that this most anti-democratic of organisations is something to be praised.
Similarly, you are fond of pointing out that the Queen and the House of Lords are not elected either. This merely demonstrates your lack of understanding. Old Brenda and the Lords cannot introduce legislation, and thus there is no comparison. Yes, the Lords can and have blocked legislation and sent it back to the Commons, but the Commons can then initiate the 1949 Parliament Act to push legislation through.
There is no comparison between our head of state & upper chamber and the unelected, anti-democratic, unaccounted dictatorship that is the European Union.
Aaron Hall
don't tell me what to do
Cameron Campbell
I suppose we'd still be living in wooden ramparts to this day had old William not invaded 1000 years ago, right lads? Better import a million more pakis.
Brody Phillips
November 8th
Camden Hall
I work in FX and have to work at 2am on the morning after the vote.
I hope you're happy, you heartless pricks. Is democracy really worth doing something so cruel as making me feel quite tired?
>we was invaded in the past >so it's okay if we get invaded in the future >people in the past could defend their country from said invaders >but we can't lol
John Hernandez
>Immigrants are the same thing >William the conquerer invented castles
The remain crowd is truly teaching me some shit I didn't know before.
Brody Fisher
Oh wait you're a faggot nm
Dylan Anderson
Military coup when?
Angel Price
Invasion = Immigration
What?...
We actually lost 1066 because we were actually fighting off savages in the north too, because the Norsemen were raiding us.
Jose Adams
Oh I get it, so a superior power invaded us and gave us better technology and we should be grateful about it. *cough* *cough*
Easton Perez
Castles are overrated, I'll take a nice bridge over a castle any day
Jonathan Garcia
Underrated comment of the century
Adam Murphy
Hitchens defends one of the cornerstones of British liberty >no reaction Casual sexism is bad! >WILD APPLAUSE
Honest question - what will you do if the country votes to leave and the result is overturned by parliament or by the PM?
There is no written constitution in Britain, only a series of conventions and traditions, all depending upon precident and being upheld by those in power. What parts of the constitution are written down are only upheld as long as it's conventional to do so.
There is no written legal document in the British constitution that the outcome of a referendum has to be abided by - we have referendum's as a form of consulting the population before the Queen gives royal ascent (in this case Parliament acts on behalf of the Crown) but due to having a constitutional monarch, no referendum can have binding power (as that would mean that the Crown-in-Parliament isn't truly sovereign and Britain would be a de facto republic) and only convention dictates that the Crown should abide the result of a referendum.
So what happens if/when we vote to leave, and big international vested interests (NATO, the yanks, private equity firms and hedge funds, banks, the EU etc) tell the PM "you can't do this" and he announces that the outcome of the referendum will be ignored, pending some "last minute deal" from the EU. The Queen will come on TV, read out a statement prepared for her by the Govt, telling the public to abide by the government's decision and that she cannot give royal ascent to a decision that would harm the country so severely. Despite knowing her private views, pro-EU Tory pundits will hail Her Majesty and talk about how wonderful our constitution is to allow the Queen to intervene to prevent disaster, whilst UKIP'ers and the Boris Johnson faction of the Tories seeth. Be interesting to see how Labour would respond to such an outcome - but what about the general public? Would they just shrug and carry on business as usual? What about you, Brit/pol/?
I have no confidence that the outcome of the vote will be respected
Ethan Torres
>one of the cornerstones of British liberty No one in my generation knows any of that. I only found out by educating myself.
Political teaching is limited to parties and institutions; history teaching is limited to the suffragettes, the rise of Hitler and the Holocaust.
We are so indescribably fucked. It's like when people have to re-learn ancient trades that have died out.
Robert Gray
God speed
Dylan Ross
1970s Harold Wilson style coup by the British Army organised by wealthy media owners on the right. There is no appetite at all within the British armed forces for the European Union.
John Thompson
The British government has never had the balls to do that. They won't grow them for this election.
Carson Gonzalez
...
Sebastian Morales
They really need to ban applause/cheering at these things.
it turns it into "who can do the best one liner and/or righteous anger that makes no sense" instead of actual discussion.
John Wright
> Tory backbenchers crash the government.
> General Election - new parliament honours the referendum (or face the same fate).
> Tories are never elected in this country again.
Anthony Nguyen
simple answer: Vote of no confidence that the public supports, ala 1979.
Christian Cook
>UKIP proceeds to get the majority
Grayson Johnson
Who could vote to remain?
It's like letting someone fuck you in the ass
David Johnson
>1970s Harold Wilson style coup by the British Army organised by wealthy media owners on the right.
The problem is with this scenario is that establishment (or at least the right-wing of it) were united against 70's Labour and Wilson. They also had the support of powerful factions within the CIA giving them support.
Today the right is split and the conditions are very different. The big money you would need to finance a coup, to fund a para-state apparatus, is on the side of remain. The big banks want us in, the Confederation of British Industry want us in. If you're gonna have a military coup you need your big industrialists and financiers to back it with serious money or it will die in it's crib.
As for the Army, don't put your faith there. Firstly cos NATO is pro-EU and the commanders know it. The pressure there will come from outside, the Yanks in other words, who would worry that Britain outside the EU would be a strategic win for Putin, and who have more influence in the top ranks of our Army than most patriots would care to admit.
As for the soldiers themselves - some might, but most won't. They need paying. The state pays their wages. All that money, those gold-plated pensions, all the rest of the perks - all gone. We have a professional army for a reason. Unless the money men are on side (which they aren't) you're not gonna be able to fund an maintain any armed force strong enough to seize power in the way you want. They'd get crushed.
There might not be much appetite for the EU amongst the British armed forces, but there's no much appetite for not getting paid either.
Josiah Carter
Reads like a who's who of most / least cucked areas & people.
Leo Butler
Immediate vote of no confidence or the British Army would fucking coup d'état.
David Garcia
if they give us a shitty enough deal no other country will want to leave
Nolan Rivera
>you will never be an old money farmer in kent or surrey who owns a shot gun and a loyal hound I-I don't like wearing earth tones anyway
Cameron Bailey
>Pro-Remain MPs are considering using their Commons majority to keep Britain inside the EU single market if there is a vote for Brexit, the BBC has learned. The MPs fear a post-Brexit government might negotiate a limited free trade deal with the EU, which they say would damage the UK's economy. There is a pro-Remain majority in the House of Commons of 454 MPs to 147. A Vote Leave campaign spokesman said MPs will not be able to "defy the will of the electorate" on key issues. The single market guarantees the free movement of goods, people, services and capital.
>The single market guarantees the free movement of goods, people, services and capital. >The single market guarantees the free movement of people, services and capital. >The single market guarantees the free movement of people and capital. The single market guarantees the free movement of people
Wew lad Dodgy Dave is going to fuck us over regardless
Landon Rodriguez
Wouldn't even need to be them, just preferable.
Comrade Corbyn could seize the opportunity, promise to honour it and we end up with him. We all know he's anti-EU anyway.
Adrian Martin
>paki.
Landon Johnson
>Tory backbenchers crash the government.
It's hard to say if that's even possible - for a start the Tory backbenchers would have to be bold enough to turn their backs on a sitting Tory cabinet. Then, assuming they'd have the numbers, they'd have to navigate the fixed term parliaments act. The Tories could form a coalition with the DUP + Lib Dems meaning they'd need to be 30 Tory MP's prepared to throw their political careers away. Even if they hate him, most of the brexiters will stay in the party and fight for it rather than break discipline like that, since without the party they'd be fucked. You can only rely on their self-interest.
>Tories are never elected in this country again. >>UKIP proceeds to get the majority
Hell of a risk to take when you have Corbyn leading the Labour party. It's not impossible, if the Tory vote collapses as a result of this, that Labour would sneak ahead of the Tories and UKIP and cobble together a coalition with the SNP.
And that's the thing about the far-left - they only need to get into power once...
>Labour taking a close look at universal basic income
Jacob Wilson
>only the old uneducated and uninterested support brexit about right
James Morris
you mean like we did?
Carter Morgan
> It's hard to say if that's even possible
Half the Cabinet is campaigning for brexit, Cameron let them drop collective responsibility. A third of the party wants out. Labour is being lead by a communist who's campaigned against the EU for his entire political career. You don't think these people will crash the government with no survivors if they ignore the will of the people?
> Hell of a risk to take when you have Corbyn leading the Labour party.
Thats EXACTLY why your scenario won't happen. The Tory party is not about to let Cameron kill their party for good and hand Britain over to a communist. It just will not happen.
Henry Thomas
>Comrade Corbyn could seize the opportunity, promise to honour it and we end up with him. We all know he's anti-EU anyway.
This is another very important thing to keep in the back of your mind. If the Tories try to derail the referendum, back in the days of Blair you might've expected Labour to support a move, for "national interest" or whatever, but there's no way in hell Corbyn would play a part in that and he would be ideally positioned to win support off it.
There's a lot of anger in the Labour party about Corbyn, who's chosen a policy of "keep your head down and watch the Tories rip each other to shreds" which is quite wise. The Blairites want him to be side-by-side campaigning with Cameron to stay in, but Corbyn knows that would destroy him within the party (which is partly why the Guardianista want it to happen) and also, he's a eurosceptic, always has been, he's simply trying to keep the peace in his own party and so if/when we do leave the EU, all the mess that follows it (it will be messy) will be blamed on the Tory party, not him. An unusually astute move for Corbyn imo.
Caleb Smith
I don't think Corbyn is that cunning. I still think he's an MI5 plant.
Gavin James
>You don't think these people will crash the government with no survivors if they ignore the will of the people?
No, I don't think it's gaurenteed. Some will, but most are venal self-interested Tory hacks, they're not going to make a move against the Tory government if it costs them their seats or costs the Tories their majority. In fact, most of them won't do anything that would threaten their promotion prospects. Just cos 100 or so Tory MP's are pro-brexit doesn't mean you'll be able to get majority of them to bring down a Tory govt.
>Thats EXACTLY why your scenario won't happen
You have to weigh that against the interests of the City though. They're already trialling various ways wriggling out of the outcome if it goes against them in the media, just floating them out there as idle speculation.
Gavin Wilson
He doesn't have to be cunning, he just has to be genuine and regardless of how batshit insane he is he's always been genuine. He's staying out of it because he's obliged to support remain but really doesn't want to. Personal motivations that just happen to look like sound strategy.
As opposed to Teresa May who has kept her head down deliberately because it'll help her chances at a power grab once Cameron is forced out
Dominic Clark
i used to go on shoots with my uncle when i was a kiddo, the only people who could afford it were farmers, doctors and lawyers. everyone was right wing and very sensible, it was great. qt girls in tweed are a real turn-on too.
>ywn have a country estate and a hereditary title
Liam Reed
Inb4 the eldritch horrors of EU open their mouths and whisper "vote again." It will happen and I know YOU know it will happen. Once it happens, what will you do? What can be done to get UK out? Vote again 127 times, until the men in Brussels give up and let you go?
Nathan Ramirez
>As opposed to Teresa May who has kept her head down deliberately because it'll help her chances at a power grab once Cameron is forced out
Hmm I've never really thought about her, but you are right shes keeping a low profile at the moment and not been very vocal for a Minister who is supposed to be in the Remain camp.
Wonder how long it will take for Cameron to be forced out?
Carson Sanders
Even if they didn't, which I think is a huge IF, they'd be dealing with riots until 2020 when they'd all lose their seats anyway. The Tories would be finished in this country, and the Euroskeptic Tories know that. That's why they'd turn on Cameron like a pack of dogs, and Corbyn will have the entire Labour party behind them in a vote of no confidence because of the promise of seizing power in a GE at perhaps Labour's weakest point in history.
At that point things would be so up in the air even the Greens could get in.
Nolan Davis
You can see the political calculation from a Labour point of view.
Chase Wilson
Registered to vote, had to do it in person because I'm living in Northern Ireland (originally form England). Ready to vote leave, and be done with this degenerate mud invasion, take back control of our borders.
Juan Cook
Voted to stay, so I can travel easier. Come at me.
Looks like we'll probably still have open boarders at this rate, making all this talk of immigration pointless.
Aaron Smith
ye wudnt wont 2 lose my visa fre trvl 2 da eu now wud i how els am i goin 2 go 2 shagaluf xD
David Moore
Choosing convenient tyranny is one of the idiotic things to do.
Levi Gutierrez
we have no constitution because it is assumed the people will revolt.
Mason Barnes
>riots if brexit is denied
don't be ridiculous, the closet conservative majority are not the type to riot, that's what brown people and unemployed leftist subhumans do. there will be mild discontent for a few weeks before all the brexiters get busy with work again and can't afford to spend time protesting, then that will be that.
Liam Turner
no one else seems to understand this
Joshua Lee
>even the Greens could get in Don't push it user Lib Dems maybe
Jason Campbell
>UKIP supporters aren't 100% leave. How does that work?
Ethan Johnson
I'm not voting.
Lucas Thompson
>Even if they didn't, which I think is a huge IF, they'd be dealing with riots until 2020 when they'd all lose their seats anyway
Well there's no gaurentee of riots. And these people have a calculation to make - do with stick with it and hope by 2020 it sorts itself out, or do I make a move now and risk backing the losing side?
>The Tories would be finished in this country
That's been said before, but the fact is the Tory party has been the most successful political party in any major western european state over the last 150 years, it has managed to stay together through wars and recessions, through from the days of being the political wing of the landed gentry to being the political wing of the City of London, MP's know this and they don't turn their backs and walk away from it unless they know for sure they are going to win.
And who's to say Corbyn would be able to get the entire Labour party behind him in a vote of no confidence? What if Corbyn wants to let the Tories linger on, more and more unpopular by the day, until 2020? What if the Labour right, scared that Corbyn might actually win if the Tories and UKIP are split (and in a FPTP system that can be lethal) keep backing the Tory govt - hoping to buy time for a leadership challenge to put Dan Jarvis or Chuka Ummuna in position to benefit instead of Corbyn?
It's such a fucking mess there's so many ways this could break. Prediction is very risky business, and assumption.
Lincoln Mitchell
Preferable to inconvenient tyranny tbqh.
David Roberts
The working class are one of our largest demographics.
Ian Murphy
>we have no constitution because it is assumed the people will revolt.# >it is assumed
And what happens when that doesn't happen?
I wouldn't put too much faith in assumption at this political moment - a lot of assumptions are proving themselves to be incorrect lately.
Luke Kelly
British people are normally very calm but if it wan an issue like leaving the EU and the decision is made to overturn the outcome of a democratic referendum then it would push people over the edge.
Lucas Garcia
Anyone who publically says they're undecided inevitably ends up voting remain. These cucks just use that position to start a conversation where they always "win".
Connor Moore
> Lib dems destroyed over betraying voters on tuition fees. > Tories will survive ignoring a referendum they promised to honour.
Please.
It won't come to this. Cameron would have weaseled out of allowing the referendum if he wanted to play this game. It would have been a lot safer, but even that might have killed the Tories.
Evan Ramirez
I got a card in the mail with my name on it, it told me when the date to vote was and where my nearest voting station is, my parents received one too
does this mean I'm enrolled?
Jayden Carter
We will vote to remain and there will be no riots at all.
Stop living in fantasy land - this population is passified beyond belief.
James Russell
Yes
Ethan Russell
Yep
Ian Williams
>does a great speech about law and justice >no applause >"thats victim blaming, rape culture" >"were one of the most sexist countries because of casual sexism" >massive huge fuck off applause
are these people actually fucking retarded or what?
Isaac Diaz
>Cameron would have weaseled out of allowing the referendum if he wanted to play this game
You're maybe over-estimating Cameron here.
Think about it - he wasn't expecting a majority, or to actually have this referendum. He was expecting another coalition, and the referendum was something he was expecting to negotiate away to stay in power. He wasn't expecting to have to go through with it.
Now he is, he could've wriggled out of it, but he must've calculated that the damage wriggling out of it would do would be too high, and that with a big dose of Project Fear (which worked well in Scotland and at the General Election) he'd be able to convince enough pensioners and homeowners they'd lose their pensions/houses/savings etc to win.
The difference is though, unlike Project Fear 1.0 in Scotland and 2.0 in the General Election, the media is not united behind the Tories, and the people they're trying to frighten into voting Remain (elderly people) are the ones most likely to vote, and they tend to back Leave. Young people are the key hope to getting Remain to stay, but with a Labour party not playing ball and with 800,000 people (overwhelmingly young) no longer registered, getting those young people to vote is going to be hard.
The fear tactics Cameron was relying on to win the referendum work on the elderly better than the young, and require a compliant media to be totally united. Leave will end up winning I think, purely because the Express and Mail etc have been able to frigthen their base into voting more effectively than Cameron has been at frightening the young into turning out and voting for the EU.
The only interface between the state and the people, the fabric of the social contract, is fear. That's the only political currency there is left, and it looks to me like the laws of diminishing reutrns is kicking in and it isn't going to work.
Zachary Williams
Just admit it, Scotland/Wales/N. Ireland are going to tip the vote into Remain.
You guys are doomed.
Luis Ortiz
Wales leans eurosceptic, no that it matters.
Blake Price
It's still a good thing to vote out simply to secure democracy. But it will probably go under the radar and immigration won't be mentioned again and we will have been fucked over by the government.
Bentley Scott
there are only about 10 people in wales and ni. scotland is smaller than london in population. there is no proportional voting in a referendum. no bending over for sco buggery with over representation.
Levi Baker
These polls putting leave ahead are the worst thing that could happen to the brexit campaign.
It will mobilize remain voters to get out and vote and it will make leavers complacent
Evan Cook
Wales is very Eurosceptic.
Cameron James
Normally you'd be right but the problem there is it's the young that are the most likely to vote Remain, and they're the least likely to vote. I don't think it will make much different to the sort of people who are default pro-EU (rather, scared of change) but don't play close attention to politics and polls.
