Why do Americans like to overstate how bad DDay was? Is it because it was their first taste of war?

Why do Americans like to overstate how bad DDay was? Is it because it was their first taste of war?

Also is Saving Private Ryan pro war propaganda?

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because most of us are dumb and we don't really care about our allies, only ourselves

also no. I doubt a movie infamous for the brutality of it's opening scene is "pro war"

Well my main thoughts were that it shows the suffering of American soldiers or long amounts of time yet the Germans are like ducks in a shooting gallery, they die without making a sound and are shown to be cowardly and dehumanised. In fact one of the subplots of the film I the transformation of a character who sympathises with the Germans, seeing them as human, into hating them and demonising them

It wasn't their first "taste of war" in WWII. They were in Africa before that.

Imo because is cinematic and iconic.

It was also a cakewalk compared to the oriental front but they didn't take part there so...

>and are shown to be cowardly and dehumanised

No they arent. Please grow out of your butthurt at america for no reason angst phase user.

Why does this movie cause so much butthurt in europeans?

What Axis/neutral country are you from, OP?

There's multiple scenes of Germans surrendering to a weaker force or giving up when they shouldn't have. There's also no subtitles for the Germans in this movie, again to take away their humanity. They could have been robots for all we know, the only humanisation we see is Steamboat Willy who ends up killing the man who saved his life without hesitation. My thoughts are that Speilberg used it as an anti German murder fantasy

>making up shit because you got butthurt at the depiction of Americans winning a war against germans

sorry war is brutal and not like laser tag little boy

Bait me once shame on you

>Why do Americans like to overstate how bad DDay was?
The film only used DDay in the beginning but it otherwise has nothing to do with the invasion. Are you just starting shit?

>is Saving Private Ryan pro war propaganda
>shows Germans being roasted alive
>men screaming for their mothers while gutted alive
>American units executing defenseless POWs
>a medic committing suicide
>people being beaten and stabbed to death
No, user.

>Steamboat Willy who ends up killing the man who saved his life

DIFFERENT FUCKING ACTORS.

D-Day really was very bad though.

As for the topic of pro-war and anti-war films, is Paths of Glory the ultimate anti-war film ever made?
>complete negativity to the war
>completely disdainful of authority and military
>unlike movies like SPR, has no glory or glorification whatsoever of combat or anything close to it

My thoughts on watching the opening were basically "this feels like a video game"; in the sense that, while most Hollywood movies will have characters just running out into open space and firing at each other, here there was a real sense that you absolutely don't want to do that since someone will fuck you up if you do.

Im not baiting you, Im calling you out on your bullshit

Americans won the battle of Normandy and you are bitching about them being depicted winning the battle in the movie

you are also bitching about war being depicted as brutal and rough. You are a child

>Also is Saving Private Ryan pro war propaganda?

No.

No it isn't. Do you not remember when he says "Upham?" Right before Upham kills him?

Steamboat Willie kills Captain Miller. Upham even confronts him about it and his response is, "Surrender, I know this man! Upham..."

i think you're confused about Mellish's death. He was killed by an SS trooper by being stabbed in the chest.

>war before America

That wasn't war, it was baby squabbles

>Why do Americans like to overstate how bad DDay was?
because it was one of the most important days in human history, and it was bad. sure there have been much worse days and battles even in WW2 alone but few if any of them were turning points in the war

>Also is Saving Private Ryan pro war propaganda?

yeah

>Americans won the battle of Normandy
The ALLIES won the battle of Normandy. No single nation won the battle it was a joint effort. An incredible amount of men died for this victory.

it is though

its opening scene is desensitizing and tricks you into thinking that the film is brutal and realistic, then it turns into a campy american war fantasy
youtube.com/watch?v=XEKSCwA38L0

>Is it because it was their first taste of war?

???????

Paths of Glory has been described not just as anti-war, but anti-military and anti-militarism. it goes against the military mind, and bashes it as the antithesis of human goodness

I meant the war in Europe.

That would be this baby.

Battle scenes are inherently pro-war, since they trigger something primitive, aggressive, and exciting in our brain. The Thin Red Line has battle scenes, and I don't think a movie can be fully and totally anti-war with that.
You can say "it shows the reality of war" and whatnot but that doesn't matter.

Because apparently DDay was fucking bad. Imagine being jammed into a boat like a can of sardines with 30 other guys, you hit the beach and the front of the boat disappears and there's suddenly 2 or 3 machine guns shooting at you.

People often find it difficult to believe just how shitty DDay was for the allies trying to take the beaches. People think it's all exaggeration but in truth it really was just as violent as SPR made it out to be

I disagree with this analysis. It felt more like nitpicking. I'm not claiming SPR is a great movie but some of the things he discusses are kind of stupid.

>you're a child

I"m 13 and a half!

I think I see what you're trying to get at so I don't blame you for the sentiment... but that entire sentence was retarded as fuck.

>i think you're confused about Mellish's death. He was killed by an SS trooper by being stabbed in the chest.
was this scene subtitled? it really needs to be

he doesn't. it's fairly perfect. the psychological impact of depicting the realism of war in the beginning, then fading into Hollywood style action is done so that you stop thinking critically about what's happening on screen

have you seen Hacksaw Ridge? it does the opposite; it saves the horrors of war for after the characters have been established as humans

well, it depended on which of the 5 landing zones (or even which SECTION of those individual zones) you were assigned to
some units literally rolled onto an empty beach and were many miles inland by the end of the day
but others, especially on Omaha, faced incredible resistance from the German defenders there; 10% of the US soldiers who died during the entire Operation Overlord died on Omaha Beach on just that first day

Because the jew thing allows them to paint nazis as supervillains and America likes to pretend that they were the sole reason why Hitler was defeated.

They can't do the same thing about the Nips because it would be racist even though America did most of the job there and WW2 nips were legitimately fucked in the head.

>D-Day really was very bad though.
D-Day was fucking nothing in the grand scheme of the war, the real importance of it came from the strategic value ie: opening a huge second front alongside the landings in Italy.
The actual battles themselves were pretty tame as far as WW2 goes.

>Battle scenes are inherently pro-war, since they trigger something primitive, aggressive, and exciting in our brain

See, if I hadn't seen the film this would persuade me. But I have. And the battle scene of Mount Austen in TTRL is brutal, along with Zimmer's depressing score accompanying the death of the GIs. Woody Harrelson's death is one of the least "pro-war" part of the film: He blows his own butt off on a scene that goes well over five minutes. Then you have the man who is "sick to his stomach" before the battle starts proper, and Woody Harrelson is telling his fatass to get the fuck up and fight. Then you've got Elias Koteas' reactions to deaths of his men as more sad music plays. Then you've got the man who gets gutshot and has Sgt. Welsh give him enough morphine to overdose himself. Then when Elias Koteas' character tells Welsh he'll recommend him for the silver star for his actions, Welsh tells him if he says another word about the silver star he'll bust his teeth in.

Then you have the scene of the 17 or 18 year old kid dying in the Captain's arms. Then you have the raid on the Japanese camp with more Zimmer score and Witt's monologue about evil. Then you have a 30 minute reaction to the battle of Mount Austen and the subsequent raid on the camp where Witt monologues about how war don't ignoble men, turns 'em into dogs. Yeah, real pro-war stuff here, jack. Really stimulates my primitive, aggressive side of my brain.

>Yeah, real pro-war stuff here, jack. Really stimulates my primitive, aggressive side of my brain.
Yeah. It does.

He says, "Give up, you don't stand a chance! Let's end this here! It will be easier for you, much easier. You'll see it will be over quickly."

I agree with this commenter: Now you're appealing to popularity? Pretty weak. It's skewed because you're taking something clearly meant as a thematic choice as some sinister agenda to push a pro-war narrative. It's total hogwash. You can literally apply this reasoning to EVERY war film ever made. Platoon, Apocalypse Now, Come and See, Full Metal Jacket etc... No film can ever show the 100%, honest depiction of real wartime combat because the inherent nature of film won't allow it. Most of the deaths post D-Day are matter of fact. Not glamorous or showy. If every death of a soldier in the film was accompanied by extreme gore and pained screaming it would veer into exploitation rather quickly. Not to mention it would be incredibly repetitive. The horrors of war are shown in film with decidedly cinematic techniques. there is no way to escape this unless you're viewing raw, unedited footage from a real battlefield.

My biggest gripe was him turning Upham's killing into some sort of weird glorification. Upham shot a POW in the heart with little remorse. It wasn't pretty it was an ugly moment for his character like him crying on the step.

I made a bet with myself that you were going to try and say something smart and not rebut anything I brought up. Won my own bet you fucking swine.

Because what you brought up is meaningless. It applies to other movies too. It applies to SPR too.
A battle scene can be dirty and vile and still what I said would be right.

>then fading into Hollywood style action is done so that you stop thinking critically
But that doesn't happen. We see Wade screaming for his mother and overdose of morphine. The entire battle scene is an ugly mess. We see men shot in throat, beaten to death and stabbed and none of it feels like a "good ol" war movie. It was brutal, nasty and sickening. What felt good about seeing all the heroes die? What about Ryan dealing with the guilt that they sacrificed their lives for his safety? His entire life he's being haunted by their ghosts.

>Because what you brought up is meaningless

It is not meaningless. TTRL actually has a shot of a Japanese soldier dead on the ground, as he monologues from the afterlife about how he was a man who was loved by friends and family just like the Americans who killed him. Really pro-war stuff here, jack as the nearly naked Japanese soldier defends his friend with a bayonet as Americans walk by. Real pro-war as Witt monologues the thoughts of the Japanese

>Have you passed through this night?

But naaah. A battle scene is inherently pro-war, yeah? For some reason that you have yet to substantiate, it just is. Sure was pro-war for Welsh to give that man enough morphine to overdose, which he does on screen, as the man is screaming bloody murder. What evidence have you that any battle scene is inherently pro-war besides your word? I've brought up scenes that any other individual on this planet would tell you is anti-war.

>It is not meaningless. TTRL actually has a shot of a Japanese soldier dead on the ground, as he monologues from the afterlife about how he was a man who was loved by friends and family just like the Americans who killed him. Really pro-war stuff here, jack as the nearly naked Japanese soldier defends his friend with a bayonet as Americans walk by. Real pro-war as Witt monologues the thoughts of the Japanese
Those aren't battle scenes.

>But naaah. A battle scene is inherently pro-war, yeah? For some reason that you have yet to substantiate, it just is. Sure was pro-war for Welsh to give that man enough morphine to overdose, which he does on screen, as the man is screaming bloody murder. What evidence have you that any battle scene is inherently pro-war besides your word? I've brought up scenes that any other individual on this planet would tell you is anti-war.
The excitement of battle and the rush of adrenaline when seeing it is inescapable whenever you're showing visceral action onscreen. That's why it can't be anti-war. It can show that "war is hell", but it's not anti-war. It doesn't give the viewer a feeling of "I definitely do NOT want to be there".

>Those aren't battle scenes.

The nearly naked Japanese soldier defending his friend with a bayonet? Takes place during the raid on the Japanese camp I mentioned earlier. A battle scene. You'd know this if you watched the film. The shot of the Japanese soldier dead on the ground as he monologues from the afterlife? During a battle scene.

>The excitement of battle and the rush of adrenaline when seeing it is inescapable whenever you're showing visceral action onscreen

What the fuck? So now you're discounting the first 40 minutes of the film which sets up the tone of the film via the contrast between the free natured tribal people Witt encounters vs Welsh and his boxy brig? Characters with such lines as

>In this world...a man himself is nothing. And there ain't no world but this one.

You're going to ignore all the build up to the battle of Mount Austen, when the American GIs find a man in a crop field with his legs blown off as they all reflect on it in silence? The score during the battle is ignored, too? Boy I remember when I first saw TTRL all I could think was "wow I want to be Woody Harrelson as he blows his ass off with a grenade!" "Boy, I want to be an American GI and die by getting shot in the neck or overdosing on morphine!"

Get fucked you pseudo-intellectual.

Are you insisting all battle scenes are pro war or just Saving Private Ryan's?

Would you say the battle scene from Paths of Glory is pro war?

youtube.com/watch?v=gPtVNDvwGMo

yes it is

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