Prayer is magic. Invoking your god to change the world around you is witchcraft

Prayer is magic. Invoking your god to change the world around you is witchcraft.
Praying for any kind of change inherently makes you a sinner, as witchcraft is a sin.
Change my mind.

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The fuck are you talking about OP? Prayer is a miracle. It is divine spellcasting not arcane. That is why clerics wear platemail while wizards wear robes. Because they do not suffer arcane spell failure from the weight of the armor.

Not only that. God already has a perfect divine plan for the universe, and if you're praying for change, it means you're asking God to change his plan. Why the fuck would he change his perfect plan for you?

I'm not talking about clerics and wizards. I'm talking about Christian laws in comparison to actual magical practices by people who believe in magic. So what are you talking about?

Also true. I'm not convinced Christians even know what they believe. If there is only one god, why is Yaweh a jealous god? Why does it matter if you worship another god?

I am talking about different schools of magic which I obviously know a lot more about than you.

You would be surprised. But while that would be a fun conversation, it's not the one I'm having right now. That's the last (you) for you.

Christians DO believe in magic.
The catholic church officially acknowledges the existence of magic, you dumb-dumb.

More than half the thread is this conversation so clearly it is the conversation we are having. You can try to sidetrack all you want but at its core this is a divine vs arcane spellcasting conversation.

Then why don't they acknowledge their own use of it?

They do.

Then why is it a sin if the church actively practices it?

Praying for the Christian shouldnt be about making wishes come true. Many Christians dont understant this. The apostles asked Jesus how should we pray and Jesus gave them The Lords Prayer as a guideline.

If you look at the text of the Lords prayer there is nothing about wish granting. Instead it dictates that prayer should be for praising god and being accepting of what you have and what you MIGHT get.

The church actively rapes children, and that's still a sin.

Finally, a real answer. Thank you.
So rather than witchcraft, it is meant to be meditation?

Yes, but I was attempting to be civil.

>give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us of our trespasses
That sounds a lot like wishing for physical goods and undeserved forgiveness.

The magic the church practices is sanctioned by the church and God. Magic not sanctioned by the church is not and is a sin. How is this so difficult for you to understand?

It all went to shit as soon as Jesus died. He left the guy that betrayed him in charge, after all.

I find solace and peace in prayer. I don't use prayer to change the world, but I ask Jesus for clarity and love, and to help those suffering.

But why is it a sin? If there are no other gods, then pagans simply understand the same god by a different name. Anything else is implying that there are other gods, and that worshipping them does something.

JESUS WAS A GIRL, CHANGE MY MIND

Prayer is asking god to change things for you, magic is trying to use the force of your will and rambling gibber-gabber to bend the universe to give you what you want

>Hey dad can you give me candy
vs
>Give me that fucking candy

In conclusion, spellbeggars suck, wizards rule

>to help those suffering
This is change.

Why is the world so filled with obscurity, hate, and unhelped suffering people? Sounds like Jesus doesn't give a shit or doesn't exist.

faith comes from within, dear user
you're probably still a young shitter who thinks attempts at tolling Sup Forums with religious topics make you a cool kid

it's getting harder and harder to see truth because this (western) world is infested with (((logic))) and nonsense useless info we're constantly being spammed with

hope you'll find it in you to make a leap

>Satan cannot grant magic

Shit nigga you just too dumb to understand.

No. When a witch invokes hecate, hecate does the magic. The witch simply asks for it. It is the same. I'm not talking about fireball-throwing wizards.

JESUS DIED FOR YOUR SINS! You stupid, piece of shit asshole!!!!!

Then why ban it if it does nothing? Satan is not a god, he is an angel created by god. If it meant satan, then why would it use the same term it uses for the Almighty when they are clearly different?
Lrn2theology

Correct. Surely one day you'll see the light and devote your life to the worship of Zeus.

Witchcraft is not a sin according to the Bible.

What the Bible forbids is doing any of these things using any source other than the Abrahamic God.

You are an atheist and a troll.

LMAO I'm just gonna keep on sinning anyways. Maybe he should have thought that through a bit more.

I still find it funny how the Bible acknowledges witchcraft as being very real. Witches aren't just charlatans, they have access to actual magical powers.

This directly proves that, if the bible is truth, god is not the only god.

No no no no, thats wrong. You invoke the gods to be PRESENT and to help, not to do it for you. You impress the force of your will on the universe to make things come out as you like. You don't ask the gods to do it for you. You're not a child. You do it your damn self. Begging is an offense to the gods.

Daily bread in Biblical times was literally that. The main diet was usual a meager serving of bread and even though it is little its enough. Wishing for bread is being used there to show that even
though I could wish for the world bread will suffice

People sometimes try to find hidden meaning in the text of the Bible and study it with a 21st century mind, but in this case its is literally daily bread. And asking for forgiveness for sins is not like wishing for a yacht or something. Doing this is to increase the relationship between you and God not improve your life here on earth

OP here. Probably the only one who isn't trolling. Also not an atheist. Your god is real, and evil.

Where is it written that only God(s) can bestow magic?

light as in lightning bolt? I'd rather go with thor in that case, but all those divinities are long since dead
christ is eternal
I'm not even trolling

You don't understand magic then. Magic is not done through begging. It requires thought, because gods are thought.

I ask the universe for a break.

I wouldn't call it witchcraft unless the universe had no choice but to comply.

different user but to add on the prayer is not to wish for things but for people to hope that the action they set in action happen without devils interfering/bad things happening, and if they do that they have the will to get through it.

Yes. Like most things, man has taken something and molds it to his own desires. Not being cynical, but its just the way things go.

Half of what is in the Bible was put their by whoever the author of the book was. If most Christians would stop kidding themselves with this "its 100 percent the word of God" and realize that the Word has for the most part been tainted by man, they would be very happy.

Asking for forgiveness of sins is asking for infinitely more than a yacht. A yacht grants finite pleasure in this life, but forgiveness of sins prevents infinite torture in the next. A less entitled man might only ask for a yacht and accept his inevitable punishment in hell.

Christ died 2000 years ago. He's just a ghost now, but not as friendly or real as Casper.

The laws of physics and the will of God are one and the same.

He existed according to Jewish historian Josephus and other texts of the period. If he was divine or had power however is not so clear. He either was the Son of God or was just a very popular conman

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A fair answer, I have no written source. Touche, sir. Though one might argue that God is the collective self, and to find magic from within is to find magic through god.

You're the only one here who gets it. Any laws otherwise are placed by man for control. God's truest name is Universe.

Got any evidence to back up that claim?

>He either was the Son of God or was just a very popular conman
Or delusional or misunderstood.

Please read Isaiah 8:10-22

"When someone tells you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? 20 Consult God’s instruction and the testimony of warning. If anyone does not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn."

xo

It doesn't really matter, since prayer words at the rate of placebo anyway.

>words
works

There are plenty of people today who believe they have supernatural powers, and followers who believe them. That seems like a pretty reasonable explanation.

god isn't evil, you're thinking of satan (beelzebub, ba'al, whatever you wanna call him)

his age is coming, with science making bigger and bigger progress each and every day

he will make everything in this world appear more perfect than the god's own creation, without any flaws
all those scientists who say fuck god, we don't need him, we need our precious science to see what's this world made of so we can learn how to manipulate it and reshape this world as we see fit - they're all devil's servants, as he is the vain, rebellious one

it's all in the bible, user
I suggest you start reading it asap if want your wretched soul to be saved, because the time is nigh

Nice trips, then dubs. In the Christian scheme of things Eternal life in paradise is much more than a yacht I will give you that. Biblically though if you had to wish or pray for something it is a very good thing to put aside want for the physical world and instead concentrate on the coming Kingdom. Praying for forgiveness of sins is just what the Lord wants you to do; again this takes makes what you pray for revolve around God which in a sense praising him

Science will prove God's existence one day, I have faith in science

But doesn't god speak in a still, small voice? Why must he whisper and mutter?

that is right, the divine ghost, if you will, as he is a part of the holy trinity

Yup, the Bible makes mention that there were probably dozens of people running around Judea at this time claiming to be prophets or Sons of God. Life of Brian was actually very dead-on in its satire if Roman ruled Judea

You're right, it is all in the bible, as that section of the world experienced it. But I have read the bible through and through. I was raised in the church and I have seen god. You have been decieved.

Shut up nigga pies God's dead

*of Roman ruled Judea

Not yet, user. But soon.

“Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to the good and gentle but also to the cruel.” (1 Peter 2:18)

Literally you as an observer of the universe change the reality around you as you are apart of the universe as well, you're a creator and destroyer and what is going on around you. Praying is wishing, wishing is making a goal, and obtaining that goal by small steps to the big step is literally accomplishing that goal. Don't tell me prayer doesn't affect the world around you because through yourself and getting up off your fat lazy ass and obtaining those goals is exactly how you fucking neckbeards suck the life out of the planet and it's inhabitants. Fucking deal with your shit as depression and bullshit ideas and fuck off

Those laws are uniform throught the universe and never change. Without a god in charge, I would expect the universe to be less orderly. Its as if we are in a simulation.

>kill the masters
>god is master of us all
>kill the masters.

I'm not depressed. I had a thought and shared it to spark discussion. You presume much.

>Without a god in charge, I would expect the universe to be less orderly.
Why? How many other universes do you have to compare with?

Top kek

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Why would you expect the universe to be less orderly? You've only seen one universe, so you have no basis to decide how likely our current universe is. Plus, we don't even know for sure how uniform the laws of physics are. We only see a tiny fraction of the universe, and can only make detailed observations about a tiny fraction of that tiny fraction that we happen to live in.

There are three things in the universe. Matter, antimatter, and energy. We are made of matter. Why can what we perceive as gods not just be energy-based beings? The reason they would require worship is because your brain uses energy to think, and they feed off of things that use energy devoting that energy to them.

bible isn't something you just "read through" like a novel
each time you read a verse from it, you should be able to discover something new, something that had never occurred to you before

I get it, you're trying to ridicule "dem dumb christ lovers, kek they all worship a dead guy, must be the walking dead convention crowd", as we're all here for the banter

I understand that, I used to be like you
but this thread, truth be said, isn't all that funny, but it's very important that you don't lose your soul

I'm not gonna try and preach to you any further, I just hope you'll learn the truth by yourself, and then, maybe, my words, even though poorly put together, won't appear as funny to you

Nothing in this world, not even this thread is not according to God's plan.

You don't understand me at all. I feel what I felt when I saw god at every church I go to. You have been decieved. When he devours you, remember me.

>Christian laws

There are none yah dingus.

Christ came and fulfilled the scriptures. We're no longer bound by the laws of the old testament.

There's only two basic principles you need to follow for salvation, they are:

1) accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior

2) love thy neighbor like thy own

You don't need magic fucking underwater like Joseph Cuck, you don't need to wear a fucking hijab like a cuck, you don't need to eat your poop in order to gain spiritual enlightenment like Aliester Cuckely, you don't need to fast on certain Cuckidan, AND you don't need to suck your priest's dick like the Catholics.

>Stay mad

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deceived by whom? and how? care to elaborate?

The universe behaves like someone decided what the laws of physics will be, and then ordered "let it be done". The atoms are all obeying somebodys rules.

kinda this, but not all the way

The universe also behaves the way it would if physics simply were the way it would behave.

Rekt

God willing, someday I will be able to take a shit in your sanctimonious mouth PS I used to be like you too

I had a seizure in a church as a young adult. I can't properly describe what happened, but I have seen the face of god. I see a shadow behind every preacher I see. You cannot see the face of God without some damage, I admit. But if that is true, it only proves I have seen what you worship. You have been decieved. Really dig into your god. For your sake.

Isn't God just a magician/wizard anyway? Dude used magic to create whatever he wanted and decided to rule over it and if you try to do the same he'll fuck you up. He's just afraid someone will do as he did and he won't be on top anymore. He's only up there because he came first and prevented others from joining him.

/thread

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Samefag

care to try and describe your experience? still not answering my question
whatever vile thing you saw that made you think that way surely wasn't god

U mad white boi?

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On what basis can you say that what he saw wasn't God? He has exactly as much evidence as you could have.

Could even get a Cuckthlics for Catholic?

Who else would be in a church? Who else would puppet his mouthpieces? God is a vile black thing with gnashing teeth. There is no light at all. I see it in the godly. You have been decieved.

R u a wizard?

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11/10 would fap to again

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He creates suffering for no greater reason than amusement. He laughs always, for he has wrought so much suffering.

Here's your (you), you've earned it.