Korn's older music holds up. Fight me

Korn's older music holds up. Fight me.

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>*cries in studio*

As far as reassessing numetal, I've come around to Korn, honestly.

I don't accept it as metal exactly, but numetal as its own thing. I really like the whole tilted, "sick" thing that Korn kind of epitomize.

Thoughtless is pretty nice.

i would if I could, bitch.

>numetal
they came out in 1994, it was an original sound
just because a shit ton of copycats came along and created the "numetal" scene, doesn't make korn numetal
they are original af, revolutionary
same goes for tool

Yeah, which is why it is better and pretty inspired honestly. I am an olderfag and I actually remember some kid telling me about how great Korn were in 1994 and thinking "what kind of lame name is that?"

Fucking A man. Korn has a place in my heart too, no matter how outdated numetal has come.

Korn made the mistake of wholeheartedly embracing the nu-metal scene. Hell, Jonathan Davis was the reason we have Limp Bizkit.

System of a Down and Deftones were smart by doing what they could to avoid the nu-metal stigma whereas Korn did everything they could to become the centerpiece of it.

deftones are really the only band that survived that car crash.

Oddly I find Deftones kind of bland compared to Korn.

Limp Biskit are too dumb, and people like System of a Down sometimes but they're too goofy sounding for me, but Korn hit the right spot as far as this sound.

limp bizkit has the best guitarist and rhythm section of any modern rock band

thank you jonathan davis

lol korn was just whiny godflesh gone radiorock
shit aint original

deftones from 1994-2003 is literally just korn riffs played at half speed with a guy who can't sing doing dream pop vocals and screaming on top

My problem with Deftones is it's kinda like shoegaze without the trippiness + numetal riffage without the "sick" element + 'alternative rock' structures loosely borrowed from grunge and Smashing Pumpkins.

It's just too bland, like a slightly cooler Foo Fighters.

>limp bizkit has the best guitarist and rhythm section of any modern rock band

any examples/ songs i should check out to reassure this?

discography

Bu-but muh deep lyrics!

dude EVERYBODY has the first record. shits classic.

System of a down was top notch for a minute.

>Allowing yourself to be trolled this hard

>af
Niggerfaggots like you ruined numetal before numbnuts realized how shit it was to begin with.

Slipknot continues to have legions of dedicated mouthbreathing fans.

Disturbed is still doing pretty well too.

>Disturbed is still doing pretty well too.

Weird.

All that stuff really did speak to a certain demographic of white trash trailer park meth kids though. Like very aptly. We could bemoan how lame that cultural moment was but stuff like Eminem and Kid Rock, and Korn and Staind were like the great white trash underbelly having its day.

ya old korn is not bad. kind of good, even.

Linkin Park, Hoobastank, Adema and Trapt are considered nu metal too and not just buttrock right? Because those bands are the epitome of angsty upper middle class teen-core

>Like very aptly. We could bemoan how lame that cultural moment was but stuff like Eminem and Kid Rock, and Korn and Staind were like the great white trash underbelly having its day.
Ditto Pantera?

Dude, Hoobastank and Linkin Park are DEFINITELY not upper middle class music. As someone who lived in SoCal exactly when all that was happening, that kind of sound corresponded to basically to the more corroded, lower-middle-class neighborhoods in the flat areas (whereas the richer people lived up in the hills neighborhoods - I'm talking about like Orange County etc).

Back then in SoCal, the real upper middle class in urban centers listened more to what rarified hipsters listened to. In LA that being either the hipster music of the late 90s / early 00s - like that kind of slowcore emo-indie stuff, or some were into kind of psych stuff. Or you had a lot of rich Jewish kids who listened to goa trance.

In the suburban areas though it was either, in the hills, these vaguely preppy kids who listened to pop punk, rave styles, or, surprisingly, a lot of hip-hop. Down in the flatter, poorer areas it was of course gangsta rap with all the Mexicans and a lot of the poorer whites, but then especially a lot of SoCal-style 'bro' shit like Sublime, Lit, Kottonmouth Kings, later Red Hot Chili Peppers, and Hoobastank, Sugar Ray, and numetal like Linkin Park, Korn, Slipknot, etc. Very much a meth-head aesthetic. Meth was HUGE and that kind of pseudo-edgy but in-your-face sound with that kind of drop D tuning groove. I mean there were definitely richer bros in the hills that were into Sublime and stuff too but Korn and stuff was especially more of a trashier meth bro originated sound. White trash tweaker to the core.

Today though they all use prescription pills and smack rather than meth.

True. I actually lived through that transition and left the area when I myself was getting addicted to opiates. Everyone else I knew got FUCKED.

I mean, smug educated upper-middle-class people never listen to music made by guys with physiognomies like this. Just look at these guys' entire presentation. Their body shapes, their simple expressions, their aesthetic... total working class stock. That class distinction goes back centuries.

I never thought of Korn as trailer park core, I always recall their fans being 13 year old girls with black nail polish who wanted to slit their wrists because their mom wouldn't buy them a pair of designer pants from Hot Topic.

Their 1st album and Issues are both legit good albums.

i grew up in oildale, this is accurate.

I remember a Christgau column from the early 70s where he talks of the distinction between Led Zeppelin's working class fanbase and the more gentrified fans of country rock like the Eagles and singer-songwriters.

Honestly, nu-metal was tailor made for teens (mostly male) going through that plethora of emotions that young teens tend to go through.

I was 14 and I liked Korn and Slipknot back then. I thought their music spoke to me and when I was angry I would listen to it. Of course I don't care for it now (I'm 28) but I'm not gonna knock stuff like nu-metal because it's not for me anymore.

It was definitely a big thing across suburbia as a whole, but that whole trashy aesthetic came from the more meth side of the lower income suburbs.

I really wouldn't characterize suburbia as like an elite cultural zone though. City sophisticates have always looked down on it, even the wealthier parts. It's considered a cultural wasteland.

The thing is though, American suburbia got very trashy and methy in a lot of parts, or especially in the Southwest, since around the mid 90s. There have been urban studies about this. Basically the suburbs started becoming more ghettofied, and meth spread from the Northwest in the 90s and took over the entire Southwest, then the Southeast...

This was right as 'tweaker' culture started appearing in popular culture in the early 90s. All that stuff like White Zombie, Prong, Tool, and that definite 'sick' meth influenced vibe in gangsta rap, and all the '8 ball' hoodies and shirts. This all begetting bands like Korn and stuff. It took over the suburbs for a while. The suburbs stopped being like the wholesome 'white picket fences' thing and became like this trashier black nailpolish / meth / Tool t-shirt kind of scape.

Breaking Bad kind of depicted this uglier trashier meth suburbs culturescape with Jessie and some of his friends.

For those that haven't seen it. Here's Henry Rollins describing nu-metal.

youtube.com/watch?v=6jxvxjwh7FI

Yeah, it definitely spoke just in general to being a troubled kid in the suburbs, for sure. The original context aside, I understand why 13 year old kids vibed with it. No judgement. I've even come around to some of the stuff for what it is.

>This was right as 'tweaker' culture started appearing in popular culture in the early 90s. All that stuff like White Zombie, Prong, Tool
And of course Pantera. Almost as integral to 90s white trash culture as Loony Toons and WWF Smackdown T-shirts.

Yeah meant to mention them definitely. And Fear Factory.

That churning, almost atonal kind of groove metal sound was SOO meth-influenced.

Just add a DJ and Liar by Rollins Band is literally a nu metal song

youtube.com/watch?v=iaysTVcounI

It's interesting to listen to now. The only one I legitimately still enjoy as much is System of a Down. They were a legitimately good and unique band that was unfortunate enough to come out around the same time as nu-metal. I personally think they have more of a hardcore punk sound than anything related to metal. Mezmerize was their strongest album.

When my dad was in high school in the early 70s, it was mostly average working class kids and he said they mostly listened to the Rolling Stones, Zeppelin, Alice Cooper, Grand Funk Railroad, Jethro Tull, solo Beatle members, and some prog as well. He said he didn't know any Who or Black Sabbath fans.

Bit surprised to hear so much about meth since I've always associated 90s rock with heroin. Most of the alternative bands were heroin-influenced.

Yeah, the aesthetic is actually pretty interesting to me now.

Like it was kind of a degredation or caricature of teenage edgyness and depression, which is why as someone slightly older it rang as artificial to me. But it's interesting how like nu-metal took that tweaker groove metal riffing, generic hip-hop beats, a bit of suburban punk, and grunge depressive lyrics cliches, but most interestingly - had that kind of 'broken' quality, as like a metaphor for being a broken / damaged teen. How the songs had that tilting, broken, slanted thing about their structure and melodies, that I guess they borrowed from Marilyn Manson and even a little bit from like trip-hop and illbient, as well as that "sick" sound in really dark sounding gangsta and horror rap.

At this point I find it as an interesting aesthetic moment in the history of the 90s cartoonification and formalization of 'edgy' and 'sick' / 'ill'.

Alternative rock wasn't nu metal though, although the two were fairly closely aligned and bands often toured together.

I do not envy you son
you're going to hell for being a retarded cynical jewish shit

>Like it was kind of a degredation or caricature of the idea of teenage edgyness and depression *in music*

Meant to write.

>Like it was kind of a degredation or caricature of teenage edgyness and depression, which is why as someone slightly older it rang as artificial to me
Yeah like Christgau's reviews of Korn and Manson. The cynical adult in him couldn't find any artistic honesty in their music. At least in the case of Manson, I'm inclined to agree, he's always been a very clever self-promoter/con man.

One can definitely argue that the rise of edgy and 'extreme' in the 90s, along with the commercialization of hip-hop and alternative in general, really fully became a cartoon mall-goth parody of itself first through Marilyn Manson. He really brandified it and created a formula that I think isn't acknowledged enough as a key ingrediant in nu-metal, as well as really laying the foundation, along with pop-punk, for the mall-ification of edgy subculture leading to Hot Topic, which totally dominated young teen aesthetics first with nu-metal and then all that third-wave mall-emo and mall-goth in the 00s.

I don't find anything much interesting about Lil Peep, perhaps his Xanax-addict 12 year old fans do.

Actually, I'd definitely argue that the likes of Lil Peep and company are kids who grew up with all this post-numetal / mall-emo / mall-goth edgecore stuff, and still being quite young even now, are deploying its influence in a really adolescent way before they inevitably mature a bit taste and musical-approach-wise.

Metal, after its 80s heyday, sort of disappeared in the 90s aside from Pantera and they were closer in spirit to alternative rock than anything Iron Maiden did. In the 2000s however, metal was big once again, everything from A7X to Dragonforce to Cradle of Filth. Once this decade started however, metal died off again. Perhaps in the 2020s...

Or I shouldn't say adolescent, they're like 19 / 20 / 21 by now, but still really juvenile and edgy and teenage.

Honestly, as an oldfag, as a tween listening to "Daddy" for the first time...that shit had a massive impact. The only other song I can compare its effect to is "Kim" by Eminem. Both are just so fucking raw and brutal, it transcends music and gets in your head and feels true, scary and somehow comforting when you feel at your worst. Not a lot of songs I can think of that actually reach that level of extremity and are actually legitimate rather than fake bs.

It has to do with the popularity of Tolkien/sword and sorcery stuff, which wasn't very fashionable in the 90s, but in the 2000s got big thanks to Harry Potter and LOTR.

Where were you when you first heard "Hot In Herre"? This was one of my first "Oh god, this truly is the worst song ever!" moments.

Tolkienshit isn't very popular now which could also explain why metal has not been cool this decade.

Their last album are not that bat. Kinda 6/10 which is very high compare to the previous records.

But I totally agree.
Pretend post 2000 Korn never happened and it's solid.

That album is almost unbearable to listen to. You hear how much bullshit he's been through clearly.

>Pretend post 2000 Korn never happened
I FEEL THE NEED
I THINK IT'S TIME TO BLEED
I'M GONNA CUT MYSELF
AND WATCH MY BLOOD HIT THE GROOOUNNDD

Korn 1 was a solid album. Not too much of a fan of issues, except for a couple songs.

The demos for their earlier songs were better than the official track

youtube.com/watch?v=qVd19bYAXsE
youtube.com/watch?v=rOC6SbfJRro

I thought that part was pretty rad

Isn't this just like with Lil Peep though? It sounds corny and artificial, but that is because what depressed people in denial tell themselves are unconvincing clichés, and not because these artists are fabricating the whole thing.

Korn, life is peachy, follow the leader, and issues are really good albums. I really didn't listen to them much after issues though.

I also think 3 dollar bill ya'll is a legit great album.

I also liked Adema's first album.

I don't remember the first time hearing that one because it was so ubiquitous, but I do remember the first time hearing Thong Song. Was stoned and with some friends, and we all grimaced at each other and one of my friends was all "Whaaaat. The. Fuuuuuck.... This song is SO. CHEEEEEEEEEEESY."

What about Candy Shop?

50 Cent was someone I NEVER got why he was so big. He had the most unremarkable mumble delivery, but I guess backed up by some pretty rote but effective-enough Dre production.

At that moment though there was a lot of stock still put in gangsta cred and ooh he was supposed to be impressive because he had actually been shot before!

>50 Cent was someone I NEVER got why he was so big. He had the most unremarkable mumble delivery, but I guess backed up by some pretty rote but effective-enough Dre production.
He had big, dumb, ridiculously catchy hip-hop anthems you could sing along to. Kind of the AC/DC of hip-hop.

But that was all Dre. He was just this kind of lazy, unremarkable, mumbly guy Dre propped up in front of the beats.

...but I guess if they're club bangers then they're club bangers, so he'd still be huge because he was the name on the track, and the women will drool after him because theyr'e women.

you Korn people should check out this old band called Scrog
discogs.com/artist/1277497-Scrog

SHUT UP I'LL FUCK YOU UP

More hooky than their 90s stuff, but also much dumber, almost bordering on self-parody.

BREAKING ME BREAKING ME DOWN

youtu.be/-el-CuV1Je8

I wouldn't really consider metal in the 00's in the same ballpark as 80's metal in regards to popularity and commercial viability. It had a bigger niche than now, but it was still a niche.

Also, I don't know whether metal's underground status in the 90's wasn't a blessing in disguise. The giants from the last decade all fell off their game, but imo it's got some of the best and most experimental albums in the whole genre.

I'M BEGINNING TO SUFFOCATE

...

2000s metal didn't produce as many anthemic singles as 80s bands did, there was no The Number of the Beast or Master of Puppets, although they were still on major labels and playing festivals which is not the case now. I do agree with the other guy that the the cultural atmosphere of the 2000s was more conductive to metal than since 2010.

>bumm nada ummm noi noi ema
>da bumm nada umm noi noi ema
Is it 90's Man's Not Hot?

youtube.com/watch?v=n4k1V45b-Ww

I've really grown to like nu metal these last few weeks. Korn's first 3 albums are great.

I'll fight you if you want, but I like those albums, too.