You have ten seconds to explain why I shouldn't have sovereignty over the state of my own mind

You have ten seconds to explain why I shouldn't have sovereignty over the state of my own mind.

Something something something degenerate

You do have that right, until you bring it out in public or drive.

You already do. The problem is that it leads to crime and becoming a leech on society.

it's legal to commit suicide ergo blotter should be legal as well. the problem is that someone will spike anothers drink though.

Because of MUH DEGNERANCY

You're a cuck who needs permission from the internet.

You don't really have a mind though

Do what you want to do as long as you don't hurt anyone physically or take away their rights.

You should, but I'm a little annoyed that most of the drug faggots who claim this are telling me what to think. Fucking hippies.

Nothing concrete ever came from drugs. It's all bullshit.

>DEGENERACY

Because you're in a failed state

Isn't that what this board is about?
Wanting to hurt people physically and take away their rights.

Heh. I remember when this board was libertarian...

Because you're a daft cunt.

You need some Morality Man in your life

No one gives a shit, have fun. But If you break the law you goto jail like anyone else.

>I have the sovereignty over my own state of mind to lose my sovereignty over my mind!!!!!!!!
Ooah, ooah, babbie's first rebellion, look mum, I'm so cool, yeah, fuckk society!!!!!! x'D ANARCHY IN THE UK!

Decreasing your lucidity endangers others. Aren't there like a bunch of acid junkies who've microwaved their kids?

citation needed.

Anecdotally, Portugal's decriminalization model shows that the war on drugs causes a lot more crime than the actual drugs themselves.
>nobody gives a shit
>the government spends billions of dollars a year trying to stop me
thanks dickhead.

Not more than people who will drive others over because of alcohol or give others cancer because of smoking.
Probably much less.

Every single time an individual does drugs they turn into a degenerate.

Every. Single. Time.

Alcohol in small quantities makes you pretty lucid.

>Aren't there like a bunch of acid junkies who've microwaved their kids?
maybe, but that's 100% anecdotal and shouldn't inform policy decisions. The drug war is a historical accident, and the onus should be on you guys to prove that drugs are harmful.

Also punishing individuals for the potential societal harm they might be causing reeks of SJWism.

LCD is supposedly better at that, and it won't give the same negative consequences as Alcohol.
At least if I am to believe one of my palls.

Because I am an empiricist and a nation full of citizens with free-license to dope themselves up wrecks the social order and degrades communities. In short, although I don't give a fuck about what an individual does behinds closed doors I do care when said behavior inevitably seeps into my reality because if you weren't an autist you would realise you and your actions don't exist in a vacuum.

So what you're saying is that you want to have sovereignty over my state of mind?

>You have ten seconds to explain why I shouldn't have sovereignty over the state of my own mind.

Because someone else owns your body. You don't have authorization to mess up government property.

>Because I am an empiricist and a nation full of citizens with free-license to dope themselves up wrecks the social order
Where has that been empirically shown? Or are you just making an assumption based on your presuppositions, i.e. the exact opposite of empiricism.

fuck off cuck

>100% anecdotal
tell that to the kids
>punishing individuals for the potential societal harm they might be causing reeks of SJWism
*fascism

>negative consequences
Unless you're asian or weak as fuck there are no negative consequences to having a standard drink. The only reason the french aren't dying of cholesterol complications in their twenties is because of the red wine they drink every day.

i was just kidding lad

wew

Then what sense does it make to allow Nicotine and Alcohol?

You can be as retarded as you want when you live outside society - but inside you have to comply because you're not alone and your stupidity might disturb enough people for a law against stupidity to be voted, resulting in your separation from the rest of society.

That's true, and I suppose you aren't trying to argue against the legalization of certain drugs or anything?

These two would make an awesome duo for a video game.

Drive to a fucking drug-den and tell me thats how you want society to be. Spend some time at a methadone clinic and tell me about the great friendships you've made.

Baring that you can do your own research into the biology of addiction and the crippling social deficits it causes independent of actual legality. The data is OVERWHELMINGLY against you.

>b-but muh statists are making it seedy with dah lawz and shiiet

Now who is making assumptions?

Getting drunk should be illegal too desu, there should be limits on how much alcohol one can buy (or sell). And second-hand smoke's not really an issue anymore because there's regulation out the ass world wide now.

Still, those stats are probably less, but psychoactive drugs can also be really dangerous psychologically. Loads of people get permanently fucked up from molly and acid.

It's anecdotal from me but I'm sure there's actual data for it. I remember hearing about it at least twice. I'm not talking about societal harm either, just safety.

It depends on the substance, how much of it you're doing, where you're doing it, and how you behave towards others while on it.

People can already legally do that with alcohol and pills. What's the difference in the degradation of a community where alcoholism runs rampant, such as in Native American culture, and a place like Portland or Seattle where there's a out in the open attitude towards pot?

Naw bro some guy invented DNA while he was on LSD, so I'm in the same category of genius when I sit on the couch staring at the wall for five hours seeing invisible patters.

Not an argument. We are discussion illegal psychoactives not Nicotine and Alcohol. Hypocrisy doesn't give your argument the default judgement you are just moving the goal-post.

Personally I think drinking to excess should be illegal but there is a strong argument to be made for alcohol consumption as part of human cultural heritage akin to religious observance.

Nicotine and fuck right off for creating nations of disgusting smokers which didn't even exist until colonial times.

...

>What was California in the 1960's?
>the countless acid casualties
>the degradation and depravity that ensued, spiraled into violence, meth, alcoholism and insanity and effects the failed state to this day.

Casually forgotten by your under-20's psychedelic guru who's read too much McKenna, talks in circles and has eaten the blue pill because it's surrounded by fractals.

Of course I am. People act so much less fucking erratic drunk than on the substances you want legalized, and there's at least some form of cultural awareness worldwide about alcohol.

>This matter was discussed by Crick biographer Matt Ridley in Francis Crick: Discoverer of the Genetic Code published by HarperCollins Publishers; ISBN 0-06-082333-X. The available evidence indicates that Crick tried LSD many years after the DNA double helix discovery. One "newspaper" published a headline saying that LSD played a role in the discovery, but there is no evidence to support that claim. --JWSchmidt 21:28, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry bro.

Perfect description of acid.
Everyone I know says they do it to "gain spiritual enlightenment" I did it multiple times, and shrooms a couple times, now I was open to the idea of seeing the world from the other perspective, which lead down the path of nationalist socialism. However everyone of my friends who has done near same said amount never got up and did anything after that. All they do is smoke pot and want to do more drugs because, in all honesty it's one of the best drugs I've done, but the worse at the same time. I still live with some minor visual distortions, and I live everyday with knowledge that i would love to bring up in conversation, however never could because of the nature of said conversation would be considered controversial.

You have ten seconds to explain why Hospitals shouldn't have sovereignty over who they treat.

Magic mushrooms have been shown in clinical studies to CURE depression.

>wants sovereignty over own mind
>wants to take substances that impair your sovereignty of mind

The couple times I did shrooms and LSD I had a stunning realization that the guys I was hanging out with were total fucking losers. Stopped hanging out with them, found out they started doing meth a few years later.
Depressing trips but I actually made big changes for the better afterwards. Still degenerate though.
jenk>weed>alcohol>halucinogens

It is an argument whenever your opponent want those two too be legal while the other drugs should be illegal without giving much of a reason for why, even if that isn't necessarily the case now.
And many psychoactives, such as Cannabis and Opium, do have long traditions of being used in human civilization as well as Nicotine which wasn't being used outside of the Americas for no other reason than not existing there. It had a long tradition of being used in the Americas.

Pretty sure "Because we have always been doing like that" isn't an argument either.

Sorry, but may you tell me how someone that's drunk acts less erratic than someone that's on LSD, Opium or Cannabis?
And what would stop us from gaining a cultural awareness about some other drugs? The only thing we do now is to make it a forbidden fruit and make drugs seem much less serious for anyone that uses it because "Hey, they told us this drug would be really dangerous but it really isn't, maybe the same thing goes about crack?"

ok lads ile give you the red pill on drugs

physically addictive drugs are fine and drugs that hype you up are fine (caffeine)

drugs they can tax like pharma drugs are fine

but mind altering drugs (psychedelics) like lsd, dmt, shrooms etc... where you can have spiritual or mind altering experiences are not ok at all

because you come back with idea's and start questioning the status quo

now the establishment went through this in the 50-60's, see hippies. Now you guys think hippies are harmless but at the time there were people just fucking off into the wilderness forming their own little communes (getting of big gubments teat, which they hate) or the alternative which they hate more which was weather underground or having institutions taken over imagine occupy movement on steroids

all of this stemmed from psychedelic drugs awaking people which were legal at the time

so what did the establishment do to combat this? well they enforced prohibition of these drugs and dug there heels in and won

that's exactly why psychedelics are illegal its nothing to do with them being bad for your health or shit like that its purely because of the civil unrest they caused

now why weed was illegal for so long and is still illegal is because it doesn't make for good little productive worker bee's people sitting around chilling out doing nothing but being high all the time was counter-productive thats why they prefer caffeine to keep you focused and alert so you can be a better little worker

alcohol well they tried getting rid of that in the early days but they soon realised they cant because it just brings organised hardcore criminal elements into society who become the purveyors of alcohol see al capone

the reason why they don't care about this these days is because they control the illegal physically addictive drug game like opiates and shit and then they created a whole profitably perpetual war on drugs giving themselves money and funds to fight it when see cia iran-contra

Give those drugs to the same sack of shit and you won't see an improvement in their behaviour.

>give others cancer
second hand smoke is fucking bullshit
Unless you live with chain smoking parents you're not at any risk of getting fucking cancer from getting a whif of some dudes smoke at the park. It's just a way for nosey liberals to tell me what to do.
>OMG can you put out that cancer stick I'm getting sick here
>420 BLAZE IT LEGALIZE IT ITS GOOD FOR YOU

>see cia iran-contra
they were the ones bringing in the drugs

its like a drug false flag i guess

feel free to literally kill yourself for all I care

because you're too retarded to be responsible

but but but i drive better when i smoke a joint

You actually do.

Just don't pull a Zimbabwe with your mental capital. Do enough and you'll unironically /x/ and may degenerate into a paranoid buffoon.

Because your a retard.
Get back in line pleb

So what big spiritual journey is acid supposed to take you on. I've heard somewhat convincing arguments from people who do it once every couple years to sort their head out. But people who do it frequently can get serious brain damage. Seeing flashing lights at night, HPPD, etc. I'll admit that it does give you a different perspective on life but most retards who do it are degenerate stoner culture morons who don't possess the brain matter to think that hard in the first place.
Can you describe this LSD induced epiphany you had?
Bruh I saw the universe bruh, we're like, all connected man.

That sounds like the shit niggers do.
When white people do drugs we get really paranoid and take our clothes off.
When niggers do drugs they run around the streets howling and eat people's faces.

You say it's the red pill, and it's really just a tired old platitude that misguided 16 year olds think they're clever for espousing.

The hippie movement was a product of the very establishment it was supposedly against. I can't even say it was co-opted, it was outright owned from the start and began decades before. Even if this were not true, the "movement" failed of it's own volition. It morphed into something ugly, directionless and volatile, but I suppose you'd rather think everything would be okie-doke and everything would have turned out OK if it weren't for the government.

As I teenager, I felt similarly to you. I have had experiences with all manner of psychedelics and dissociatives and I'll tell you it's a dead end. They will turn you into a soup sandwich blathering endlessly in circles about absolutely nothing applicable, and the only ones that will be impressed by it are the fat chicks on your college campus.

Real lsd doesn't even exist anymore. I do an eighth of mushrooms once a year on my birthday and palaver with the spirit realm. Try it once and see for yourself, Salvia is a good one to start with because it's a very intense experience but only lasts 5-10 minutes. Like you say, no more than once or twice a year

>Real lsd doesnt exist anymore
Hahaha yah not where I am friend

It's not an issues of what's legal or illegal. There's a bigger underlying problem with your society when people are turning to drugs in an attempt to find happiness.
And of course there's the issue of the media, run by you know who, that make substance abuse seem fashionable and cool.

nah your just a lightweight

Because you sound like a retard

don't do it. i did 25B-NBOMe one time and i feel that something in my mind has been destroyed and cannot be repaired. Go for real LSD or shrooms if you really want to.
>mfw no one seels DMT here. only faggot extacy

I'm on team if you want to take psychedelics you have to also have to take a high dose of Benadryl. If you're going to alter you mind and get all "muh connected universal love" you ought to account for the fact that you can alter you mind and experience much more vivid and concrete "Everything is spiders all my radiohead music is now Thom Yorke asking for Aliens to Kill him, and the Canadian government is commandeering my mind for a bit"
Both to me are clearly degenerate though I'll do them once or twice a year just to remind me that on some fundamental level everything's fucked and very few people know what's going on.

You realize McKenna had a bad trip in the 80's and never touched mushrooms again, right? Of course you didn't.

He just preached his New Age babble to you at the behest of his overseers.

No you don't. Every fucking stoner says that. I drove, and rode with dozens of stoned people, and believe it or not almost every single one of them, including myself drove worse. Just because you aren't speeding doesn't mean you don't drive like shit

>They will turn you into a soup sandwich blathering endlessly in circles about absolutely nothing applicable
True, for some of us. I don't think you just have done enough.

so?

he still continued to take psychedelics

>at the behest of his overseers

who?

>people on this board actually support wasting billions of dollars a year pointing the gun of the state at people to stop them from ingesting certain chemicals.

This.
You should stay away from research chemicals.
shrooms are the safest best, since the lsd market took a big hit.

Except psychedelics were promoted by the Jewish media in the 60s, to challenge the status quo (break down the moral fiber of America). The hippies thought they were shaking things up but they were marching to the internationalist tune more than anybody.
Be sexually promiscuous, sit around getting high and listening to music all day, have little to no regard for your future.

>Except psychedelics were promoted by the Jewish media in the 60s

i'm going to need a source on that mate

Alcohol makes people a lot more sexually promiscuous than psychedelics and weed do buddy.

Seriously, if your argument is about promoting degeneracy then alcohol, MDMA, and perhaps speed should be really your only concerns.

>Did drugs as a TEENAGER and now is an authority on drugs

You clearly did not do these drugs correctly. You're supposed to become an intelligent human being who can parse the experience before trying them. As a teenager you're a soup sandwich of masturbating, worrying about grades, and having a not fully developed brain. You ought to have a university degree and job before doing any seriously mind-altering drug.

>You ought to have a university degree and job before doing any seriously mind-altering drug.

this even as a teenager i thought this about psychedelics i was curios about them but i new they were not to be messed with until my mind was fully developed and i was adult

>blathering endlessly in circles
Every time I've asked friends who were tripping to explain the profound realizations they were having they did just that. They just went on a thought loop and couldn't say shit. It's like everything is the beginning of a sentence, there's never a conclusion so all you get is a random string of loosely connected thoughts.

You do, we also have sovereignty to fuck you up because of what you do.

This.
You don't drive as bad as if you were drunk but it makes you drive slow.

>You have ten seconds to explain why I shouldn't have sovereignty over the state of my own mind.
Because you're a fucking idiot that would destroy himself with drugs.

If you're so stupid that you'd use drugs, you don't deserve rights.

>I'm on team if you want to take psychedelics you have to also have to take a high dose of Benadryl.

Benadryl was a precursor to Prozac, exhibiting inhibition of serotonin re-uptake. It's one of the earliest anti-depressants, and can fuck you up all by itself in large enough doses. This is effectively saying you need to take an anti-psychotic drug to experience psychotomimetic drugs (mimmicking psychosis).

I've done plenty. I'm pushing 30 now and have taken the full range into my system and at the very least, the ultimate "red-pill" is knowing when to hang up the phone. They will do nothing but harm you, but I guess for a 16 year old who still thinks Raoul Duke was real and Thompson wasn't up there racking his psyche every night trying to be something he wasn't for entertainment of a bunch of snot-nosed college kids with no imagination, I guess that idea will be lost on them and you can figure it out for yourself eventually.

McKenna was a fraud and it always delights me how you twits feel the psychedelic realm is your personal domain, and you're not participating in rituals you don't understand, fomented by the very same people you hate. They were adopted by natives, the scientific community, and select governments well before the failed, slopshit California revolution you referenced.

Psychedelic drug users, as much as these drugs are supposed to dissolve the ego, are always the most egocentric. Funny, that.

who?

American government.

>I can handle myself bro.
>I won't become addicted bro.

Said every budding addict ever.

>feel the psychedelic realm is your personal domain

said no psychedelic user ever

>They were adopted by natives, the scientific community, and select governments well before the failed, slopshit California revolution you referenced.

this is well known whats your point? also lsd wasn't taken 'well' before by anyone before the hippies got into it

> slopshit California revolution

your calling it a revolution i would refer to it as a movement (yep super hippie term but i think it fits) i never said it achieved anything it just shook things up until they made all psychedelics illegal

>American government

gunna need a source on that mate

> Psychedelic drug users, as much as these drugs are supposed to dissolve the ego, are always the most egocentric.

So fucking true

Fkn druggo

>McKenna was a fraud

in what way?

acid helped you gain insight on this particular situation for the better and you're still shitting on it?

Not an argument

some people are just jaded about drugs

see

The outcome was favorable but the trip there was soul crushingly depressing. I was so miserable I just wanted to fucking die. The one time I had fun on LSD I was by myself. I want nothing to do with other people and their dumb shit when I'm tripping.

It's because they haven't been pushed over the threshold into death. The ego is the only thing that makes us ourselves, this is what you learn when you stand at the threshold and look in the door. You either jump through and lose yourself or you stay on this side and become yourself turned up to ten.

Psychedelics are our universe's Gom Jabbar.

>jump through and lose yourself
Why do we never see those people?
>joe did LSD and now he's a vegetable
>jimmy did LSD and now he's a dog