Since its the anniversary of the assassination I was curious to see what Sup Forums's opinion is on this movie.
I really like this movie in fact its one of my favorites but the more I read about it the more it seems like its filled with inconsistencies and outright falsehoods. Still doesn't detract from the quality of the movie and its appeal to emotional truth but still a bummer.
What do you guys think? What are the most plausible theories? Did you like the movie? And do you think any declassification of documents in the future (perhaps during a Trump presidency haha) will shed more light?
there were multiple shooters and oswald was set up for a while to take the fall, the mafia in new orleans and chicago was involved, the hitmen were probably foreign professionals
Isaiah Clark
cuban assets of da see eye ayy hawks thought jfk was soft on communism in their backyard all the multimillions invested in havana, italian mob only one part of the shareholders, reappropriated by castro's government veep johnson had tacit knowledge of the plot, if not unilateral go-ahead
Isaiah Cook
The Mafia
Dylan Lopez
The kind of threads that never goes away
Caleb Rivera
I think the point of the film was that Oswald was either part of the assassination as a patsy or was a double agent who got double-crossed.
Lincoln Gomez
Also GOAT OST
Michael Mitchell
The "magic bullet" and "back and to the left" silliness has been debunked. But I think there is something to the idea that the CIA might have been involved, or at the very least that they hated Kennedy. There was a ton of mistrust between them and Kennedy, he gave them no support on the Bay of Pigs, denounced some of their coups, and went behind their backs during the Cuban Missile Crisis negotiations.
IMO, it's possible that Oswald was somehow involved with the CIA. I don't think it's very likely, but out of all the conspiracy theories it's the one that you can't really disprove, and there's a clear motive. The only problem is that Lyndon Johnson didn't dramatically change JFK's foreign policy. And surely the CIA knew that he wouldn't, and understood the basics of presidential succession. So what would killing Kennedy achieve?
Caleb Watson
>JFK was a strong supporter of containment >planned to aggressively expand the US's ICBM arsenal >began the US escalation in Vietnam
And the CIA killed him to install Lyndon Johnson, who....continued to expand the nuclear arsenal, continued the policy of containment, and continued the US escalation in Vietnam. If Johnson was in on it, he must have immediately betrayed his "co-conspirators".
Elijah Morris
On June 4, 1963, a little known attempt was made to strip the Federal Reserve Bank of its power to loan money to the government at interest. On that day President John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order No. 11110 that returned to the U.S. government the power to issue currency, without going through the Federal Reserve. Mr. Kennedy's order gave the Treasury the power "to issue silver certificates against any silver bullion, silver, or standard silver dollars in the Treasury." This meant that for every ounce of silver in the U.S. Treasury's vault, the government could introduce new money into circulation. In all, Kennedy brought nearly $4.3 billion in U.S. notes into circulation. The ramifications of this bill are enormous.
After Mr. Kennedy was assassinated just five months later, no more silver certificates were issued. The Final Call has learned that the Executive Order was never repealed by any U.S. President through an Executive Order and is still valid. Why then has no president utilized it? Virtually all of the nearly $6 trillion in debt has been created since 1963, and if a U.S. president had utilized Executive Order 11110 the debt would be nowhere near the current level. Perhaps the assassination of JFK was a warning to future presidents who would think to eliminate the U.S. debt by eliminating the Federal Reserve's control over the creation of money. Mr. Kennedy challenged the government of money by challenging the two most successful vehicles that have ever been used to drive up debt - war and the creation of money by a privately-owned central bank. His efforts to have all troops out of Vietnam by 1965 and Executive Order 11110 would have severely cut into the profits and control of the New York banking establishment.
Caleb Lee
he had an idea of it, but was not part of the planning committee he simply stepped aside and washed his hands, omission instead of active participation for short term gain, yes? now to pressure khrushchev to ease up icbm support for castro, johnson backed off any land operations in cuba and pivoted to vietnam not every maneuver has to serve the grand strategic scheme, a politician was just being..political
Christian Reyes
LBJ was probably in on it.
Dominic Wilson
The Jews
Brayden Watson
>he simply stepped aside and washed his hands, omission instead of active participation for short term gain, yes?
Right, but why?
>now to pressure khrushchev to ease up icbm support for castro
Kruschev removed the ICBMs from Cuba a year before Kennedy's assassination. Almost exactly a year, actually.
>johnson backed off any land operations in cuba and pivoted to vietnam
Which is something that Kennedy had already done. If you look at the letters exchanged between him and Kruschev, Kruschev's personal memoirs (not fully released until the 90s), and testimony from guys like McNamara and RFK, an implicit part of the resolution of the Cuban Missile Crisis was that Kennedy would not invade Cuba. And the escalation of Vietnam began under Kennedy, Johnson merely kept it going?
>not every maneuver has to serve the grand strategic scheme, a politician was just being..political
Right, but what did the CIA get out of all of this? Their concern is foreign affairs, isn't it? But Johnson just continued JFK's foreign policy. They must have known he would do that, I'm sure Johnson's political ideology wasn't a secret back then. So why try to get Johnson into office?
Jeremiah Morris
*ignore the "right, but why" that I posted as a response to your first sentence. You literally answered the question in that sentence, I don't know how I missed it.
JFK was killed by Lee Harvey Oswald acting alone. He was an unhinged communist who had been turned down by both the KGB and the Cubans. He thought killing Kennedy would attract their attention, like how Hinckley tried to kill Reagan to attract Jodie Foster's attention.
I've yet to be confronted by a rational and coherent argument defending a conspiracy, let alone proof.
Also, I've never heard of any serious conspiracy theorist use this movie as proof because of how egregiously bullshit it is.
William Ward
It was Colonel Mustard with the Lead Pipe in the Conservatory.
Cameron Butler
I agree that there should be overwhelming evidence if someone is claiming that there is a massive conspiracy but don't you think there are too many strange things surrounding the assassination? Little things like why Oswald didn't take the shot when the car was coming down towards the conservatory instead of waiting until it made the turn?
Justin Bell
Kennedy may have started involvement in Vietnam but do we know if he would have escalated it to the levels it eventually reached like Johnson did? perhaps the CIA lacked confidence in a Kennedy administration and decided to take covert action?
Nolan Allen
I don't know, is it?
The problem I have with massive government conspiracy theories is this: someone ALWAYS talks. Obama can't sell guns to Mexico without someone talking. The NSA can't collect meta data without someone talking. Hillary can't check her email on her personal blackberry without someone talking. So the idea that the CIA or the KGB or the Fed was behind the assassination of a US President in broad daylight and for 50 years NO ONE has talked seems a little outrageous to me.
Blake Gray
>Obama can't sell guns to Mexico without someone talking. The NSA can't collect meta data without someone talking. Hillary can't check her email on her personal blackberry without someone talking. Notice how these are all in the past decade with an ultra-connected world?
Easton Thomas
It was me, America
The author of all your pain
Samuel Thomas
...
Leo Walker
isn't a 'massive conspiracy' a misleading oxymoron in the first place? how about a tiny conspiracy operating under need-to-know, compartmentalization and outsourcing of labor? wouldn't that have a greater chance of success of evading investigation? a three person meet-up aiming to jaywalk is legally a conspiracy (against traffic laws)
Bentley Garcia
Baines?
Julian Young
I think today that is definitely the case and its why I am very skeptical to believe any 9/11 conspiracy theories. I just think that back in the early sixties it would not be outside the realm of possibility. It really wouldn't need to involve that many people and every generation historical truths come to light that would have made us laugh at the time.
I agree that a massive government conspiracy involving multiple agencies and dozens of people is highly unlikely but not impossible. In fact the reason I think that the assassination is such a controversial and debatable subject is because of all the holes in the official story and the strange circumstances surrounding it. If it was a perfect cover-up I don't think the movie would have ever been made (only oliver stone can answer that one though).
I think the audacity of the killing, it being in broad daylight and all, actually helps push a narrative that it was a crazy lone gunman. Its something theatrical and obscene. Something that you can focus on, that draws attention. Its not some backroom poisoning of coffee or something more textbook assassin-like.
I do believe that its disingenuous to both promote skepticism of the official warren report while also rejecting skepticism of the conspiracy theories. I guess we will never know for sure but I just don't buy the lone gunman thing.
Xavier Garcia
Yes. So much of what was secret is known now. Look at JFK's health issues and affairs.
Landon Phillips
Do you have any proof that there was a conspiracy or do you just FEEL there has to have been one? The Pentagon Papers beg to differ. Leaks have always happened.
Aiden Anderson
The zapruder film shows that there had to be a second shooter.
What specifically shows there had to be a second shooter?
Ayden Hall
Watch the secret service agents ordered to stand down moments before the shots. One agent is visibly confused by the order. Multiple security experts have since said that JFK could not have been assassinated like that without the cooperation at some level of the secret service.
>the magic bullet theory >rational and coherent Kennedy had many powerful enemies. There was/is one organisation in particular he had warned about, asking the press to alert the American people about a "monolithic and ruthless conspiracy." The press never made a peep about the content of this speech: youtube.com/watch?v=RhkjYJAHCjM
it was the jews along with the negro spies in order to get the civil rights bill passed once and for all
nixon was right
Cooper Cook
soros my nemesis i will destroy u! priase kek !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jose Hughes
>being so asshurt about Sup Forums you give yourself braindamage huh
Jonathan Hall
relax it's literally just a joke haha
Owen King
you're a manchild
Michael Jackson
Not that user but JFK was blatantly shot with a hollow point round (AKA "dum dum" bullet). His head practically explodes, pic related (WARNING: GORE, NSFL). Other wounds were not inflicted by that type of ammunition.
Camden Cruz
well, i hate tinfoils but fact is : >Kennedy's did get their money illegaly in prohibition era. >JFK was playboy and he was regulary seen sourrounded by Mob bigheads on various parties in Reno and LV
Who knows what deals they had under the table,maybe feds just figured out he was too conected to be presidential material.
Oswald was probably just an patsy and wouldnt survive even if not caught. Fact that they wiped all Kennedy's smell like mob work (omerta bs)but who knows
Caleb Taylor
Only cowards believe the government's version.
Tyler Hill
Dude did you even watch the film ?
John candy character and several other characters openly state they know shady shit went down but anyone who talks will turn up dead.
Adrian Watson
wtf was his problem?
Oliver Powell
this user gets it you fuck around with the military industrial complex, you get dead, no matter who you are.
Luke Martin
>By ARRB law (of 1998), all existing assassination-related documents will be made public by October 2017.
soon
Eli Hill
>>This is Louisiana, chief! I mean, how do you know who your daddy is? Because your mama told you so?
Wyatt Martinez
>dum dum >literally just a an abbreviation for depleted uranium munition It has nothing to do with the shape of the bullet but with the components used in the bullet
Dylan Jones
Sorry it took a while to get back to you but yea to me its the final headshot, the motion of his head and body. How could the shot have come from behind and above him?
Hudson Cooper
>why Oswald didn't take the shot when the car was coming down towards the conservatory instead of waiting until it made the turn?
i remember seeing a reconstruction where they said that on the day, at that time, the sun would have been shining directly into the depository window. having said that oswald flipping nationality's like a crazed fry cook and operating both for and against castros regime just scream covert asset, the bubble being removed from the car, the security teams being retasked etc etc etc ....... nahh jfk was murdered by someone with high level government contacts
Xavier Watson
Robert Kennedy was assassinated (also by a "crazed lone gunman") after going hard after the mob.
You have to remember that whoever was behind these killings had the cooperation of the media, which pushed the official narrative on both assassinations. Operation: Mockingbird was a CIA campaign to influence the media, starting in the 50s. Assets in key positions can control an entire network without any member of the network being in on the big picture. It's called compartmentalisation. The right hand doesn't need to know what the left hand is doing and vice versa.
If the "monolithic and ruthless conspiracy" JFK talked about included high ranking members of the CIA, the secret service (see: ), and the mob, then we have means, motive and opportunity on the whole deal: Both assassinations, AND the cover ups, not to mention mob asset Jack Ruby's convenient assassination of Oswald.
Luis Richardson
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet >Expanding bullets were given the name Dum-dum, or dumdum, after an early British example produced in the Dum Dum Arsenal, near Calcutta, India by Captain Neville Bertie-Clay.
Easton Scott
Seems odd considering it was 12:30 pm, how could it shine directly into the window?
Also some other user mentioned how great the OST is and I agree. This should be the thread theme.
It seems like his head clearly jerks forward before rebounding back. Am I missing something? Are there any side by sides comparing headshots from hollow points and the FMJ rounds Oswald allegedly used?
Robert Ross
t. triggered Sup Forums cuck
Isaiah Johnson
oh shi- you're right. well time to go back to weapons and ammo 101
David Myers
BACK
Kayden Bailey
Recommend other redpill kino.
Ryan Brown
I can kind of see what you mean, but clearly moves backwards and to the left with force. Also the car was slowing down at that point after the first two shots.
Nolan Moore
"Democracy is finished in England "
What did jfk's old man mean by this?
Blake Butler
After it jerks forward though. It wouldn't be possible for his head to do that if he was shot from the front-right.
Gabriel Perez
It's a comfy movie although historically inaccurate.
Matthew Cooper
Poor Jackie.
Kayden Jones
isn't his head moving downwards as the car is slowing down and he had just been shot in the throat? And if he was shot from behind and above, why would his body move back and to the left afterwards. It makes no sense. It would certainly help if we had detailed autopsy pictures. We could figure this out right away.
Nolan Wood
Oswald fired first, in the panic an agent in the trail car tried to pull out his gun and it fired, hitting Kennedy in the head
Henry Reed
Then why doesn't anyone else's head in the shot move forward?
I would assume he fell backward because the position of his body would cause him to collapse backwards upon death.
Adam Scott
>2016 >doesn't know it was magneto
David Richardson
Isn't it obvious
Michael Fisher
What about the alt-right?
Ian Gutierrez
...
Brandon Thompson
...
Elijah Clark
faggot Catholic priest wannabe
Brandon Hill
>WARNING: GORE, NSFL
REDDIT DETECTED
Andrew Rivera
>Kennedy may have started involvement in Vietnam but do we know if he would have escalated it to the levels it eventually reached like Johnson did?
Because we have documents signed by Kennedy ordering a dramatic troop increase. The plan was very simple: draw down troops temporarily ahead of the election, then begin escalating again. Kennedy was very, very hawkish, despite the way he's portrayed nowadays (due to liberals wanting to lionize him and conservatives wanting to demonize him).
Chase Lee
This guy has the best analysis of the zapruder film and probably shooting locations that I've seen:
>There was/is one organisation in particular he had warned about, asking the press to alert the American people about a "monolithic and ruthless conspiracy."
He was obviously talking about communism. If you actually read the speech and remember the context of it, that becomes obvious
>joked about Marx being a failed journalist >"It conducts the Cold War" >the fact that Kennedy never stopped harping on communism in so many of his other speeches
The entire point of the speech is basically asking the press to show some restraint and self-censor a bit in the name of national security, even though on principle he himself would never force them to. The idea that he's doing this to warn us about the Illuminati or the Jews or whatever is pure nonsense.
Christian Perez
*And some more from that same speech:
"For the facts of the matter are that this nation's foes have openly boasted of acquiring through our newspapers information they would otherwise hire agents to acquire through theft, bribery or espionage; that details of this nation's covert preparations to counter the enemy's covert operations have been available to every newspaper reader, friend and foe alike; that the size, the strength, the location and the nature of our forces and weapons, and our plans and strategy for their use, have all been pinpointed in the press and other news media to a degree sufficient to satisfy any foreign power; and that, in at least in one case, the publication of details concerning a secret mechanism whereby satellites were followed required its alteration at the expense of considerable time and money."
A clear reference to the KGB being able to obtain information about American security just by reading about it in the papers or even asking around. He even specifically mentions how the US government had to restart a satellite program because of it. I know it's fun and exciting to imagine that Kennedy was trying to covertly warn us about some grand conspiracy to kill him, but it was just one of dozens (if not hundreds) of anti-communist, anti-Soviet speeches he gave throughout his political career.
Hunter Miller
>So who did it?
The jews of course, Kennedy was insanely popular and thus hard to control.
Oswald was a patsy, and of course before he had his day in court he was shot to death by a jew.
Chase Bennett
>Kennedy started escalation in Vietnam What is Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?
David Morris
>What do you guys think? What are the most plausible theories?
Oswald did it, alone, from the book depository.
I've seen more than enough to convince me of this and it's funny that you'll get called out if you think it.
Sometimes things are as they are and nothing deeper: this is such a case.
Jordan Clark
>falling for the b8
Ryan Young
who cares, pretty much all these people are dead now
Parker Anderson
George hwv Bush
Luis Roberts
JFK was going to audit the Fed, LBJ didn't
Samuel Sullivan
People just can't accept that real life is a lot less exciting than they want it to be.
Ryan Garcia
>The president couldn't cover up a break-in at a shitty hotel or a jizz stain on a dress.
Juan Young
Sure is JIDF in here.
>m-muh lone oswald, jews are good boys who dindu nothing, c-completely debunked
Michael Cox
>What is Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?
It started way before the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. Kennedy increased the US presence from just 500 troops to more than 25,000 before his death. Escalation was well underway by 1963, 1964 was just a continuation of the trend.
Jaxson Hughes
Can you explain the behaviour of the secret service agents tasked with protecting JFK? ()
Why would they be ordered to abandon the president moments before the assassination?
Jacob Ortiz
Maybe Kennedy was just a cocky bastard who told them to back off so the crowd could get a better view of him.
Bentley Cox
>If the "monolithic and ruthless conspiracy" JFK talked about included high ranking members of the CIA,
Fucking Christ.....have any of you actually read the transcript of the speech? Or listened to it? He's talking about communism and the need for the press to show restraint in publishing potentially sensitive information. Why have so many conspiracy nuts latched on to this one phrase, taken completely out of context?
Angel Carter
We'll all find out in 2063. Pro-tip: the Democrats killed him.
Caleb Peterson
>so who did it The international banking cartel because of executive order 11000 that ended monopoly on minting of currency. It's hardly a secret.
Blake Murphy
This. The government covered it up because they didn't want the humiliating truth that the POTUS was offed by a bunch of Mafia goons over long-standing beefs with his bootlegging father to be public knowledge in a tense time filled with American pride.
But the fact that it was a Mafia hitjob is the reason why the FBI was so eager to infiltrate and take down the Italian mob in the 70s and 80s.
So while JFK kinda took one for the team, at least we got Goodfellas and Black Mass (stories about irish kids recruited by the FBI to rise in the mob and name names) out of it...
Charles Johnson
Kennedy was not popular. He was in Dallas due to awful poll numbers. He was unlikely to be reelected. He was seen as a weak, ineffectual president. Since his assassination, his family and the media have painted a far different picture of the man and his presidency.
Camden Hall
>executive order 11110 Fixed.
David Cooper
Is there any proof the agents were ordered to stand down? Have the agents actually made any statements? Because "the agents were ordered to stand down at that moment so that Kennedy could be assassinated" seems pretty low on the list of reasonable explanations for the video.
Samuel Anderson
That movie is one continuous lie. The only thing the movie got right was the name of the victim and the date of the assassination.
Blake Morgan
HEADSHOT
Jace Myers
>Is there any proof the agents were ordered to stand down? The fact that they stood down? I doubt they'd do that off their own initiative.
One minute they're running alongside the car the next minute they're backing off, looking at their chief (in the car behind), throwing their hands up in confusion.
There's also the matter of Oswald being in a window overlooking the motorcade with a rifle. According to all interviews with security agents I've seen on this matter, that would be impossible if the secret service were doing their job. Makes sense, otherwise presidents would be dropping like flies. It's not just lone nutjobs who want to kill the POTUS. Foreign agencies, terrorist cells, paramilitary groups, hired assassins working for any wealthy interests opposed to his policies... All may have just as much motive as Oswald, all would be far better organised and trained. Seriously, what is the point of having bodyguards if any old ex-marine with a rifle and a grudge can wander up to a window and start taking shots?
