Was there a better songwriter in the 20th century than Bob Dylan? If so, I'm having trouble finding them. Also Peter...

Was there a better songwriter in the 20th century than Bob Dylan? If so, I'm having trouble finding them. Also Peter, Paul and Mary.

Gordon Lightfoot

Do you mean lyrically or compositionally? Cause if its the latter, yes, so many people are much better. The list is frankly enormous. Lyrically, theres also a good number, not quite as many though.

What is he lacking in comparison to some of your favorite composers?

>Peter, Paul and Mary
literal grandma-core

I assure you he meant lyrically. Who are they?

>Was there a better songwriter in the 20th century than Bob Dylan?
Literally no. Leonrd Cohen came close, but even then it's no contest.

Awareness of musical forms outside folk and a handful of american popular music.
Sophistication in harmony and rhythm.
Control of tension and color.

I mean, the man didnt really have much control of harmony as a whole and his music is, to those exposed to more sophisticated and complex ideas, frankly boring. His music is frankly prehistoric compared to what Jazz and R&B musicians were doing years earlier. Anyway, harmonically, it took him years to develop. The Byrds, Beatles, and Beach Boys were far more skillfull in that regard. I also believe his music hasnt aged very well, but thats debatable. I think to truly appreciate BD you have to have listen to him early on in your musical formation. He's too simple in almost every regard for someone to be exposed to him as an adult.
Also, imo, his lyricism lacked poetry.

>Also, imo, his lyricism lacked poetry.
>how many years can some people exist, before they're allowed to be free
Pick one.

Nick Drake
Leonard Cohen
Tim Buckley
Isaac Brock
Jeff Mangum
Townes Van Zandt
Brian Wilson
J Mascis
Daniel Johnston
Beck
Mark Motherbaugh
Gerald Casale
David Byrne
R. Stevie Moore
Doug Martsch
Elliott Smith
John Linnell

That's just off the top of my head. The list goes on and on and on

>how many years can some people exist, before they're allowed to be free
I'll ask you a question, user. Have you read any poetry? You know maybe something by Shakespeare perhaps? Theres nothing about that line that is powerful or moving to me. It's high school level poetry. Doesnt show any control of language or poetic devices. No imagery, no sophistication of rhythm or rhyme, no control of meter. It's a blanket statement like "all people are born equal" or "no one should legislate my vagina". It may resonate with you, but there's no poetry in it.

Scott Walker is better

Woody Guthrie

unironically worst folk revival artist

Ochs was way better

I was unsure if this was bait after the first one, but you've played your hand too far

The big three are Leonard Cohen, Bob Dylan, and Townes Van Zandt. Being a Wisconsin native, I lean towards Dylan because his accent is very close to mine and his folk era is very close to the mix of folk and country that I grew up around and played.
Lightfoot is close; easily in the tier below Cohen, Dylan, and Van Zandt. I'd put Woody Guthrie, Phil Ochs, Gil Scott-Heron, Pete Seeger, Scott Walker, and Hank Williams in that group too.

Other than those, I'd say some of the best would be Marc Bolan, David Bowie, Isaac Brock, Tim Buckley, Kate Bush, David Byrne, John Denver, Nick Drake, Brian Eno, Peter Gabriel, PJ Harvey, Isaac Hayes, Jeff Mangum, Curtis Mayfield, Elliott Smith, Tom Waits, Brian Wilson, and Frank Zappa, your usual Sup Forums list of artists.
Others you'll commonly mentioned see are Beck, Bjork, Black Francis, Jeff Buckley, John Cale, Nick Cave, Ray Charles, George Harrison, Jimi Hendrix, Richard D. James, Michael Jackson, Billy Joel, Daniel Johnston, John Lennon, Noah Lennox (Panda Bear), Steven Malkmus, Johnny Marr, J Mascis, Paul McCartney, Morrissey, Joanna Newsom, David Portner (Avey Tare), Prince, Lou Reed, Smokey Robinson, Paul Simon, Phil Spector, Bruce Springsteen, Bernie Taupin, Stevie Wonder, and Thom Yorke.
There's petty disagreement about every songwriter I listed, but I would say Cohen is probably the one that's the least debated. However, if they're particularly interested in being wrong, they'll say Kurt Cobain.

>I want you
>I want you
>I want you so bad.

Damn, give this guy the Nobel prize in literature.

Warren Zevon, Leonard Cohen, Townes Van Zandt, Tom Waits.

...

Are you already out of arguments? Put some thought to things maybe life will open up to you and you'll gain a greater appreciation for the world.

The unexamined life isnt worth living.

Why are people so obssed with lyrics. Why not just read if that's what you want? I know I'm coming across like an asshole, but I'm actually curious

good vocal performers can convince you of the integrity of the lyrics. it's like musical acting

But what does vocal performance have to do with someone's ability as a lyricist?

Tom waits is god

The lyrics on Alice are beath taking

I do feel like he hides behind experimentation. That fact that dylans songs are so good with so little is a testimont to their brillance. Tom waits songs would still be great even if The lyrics were just ok. That said I would rather listen to tom waits

lyrics you wrote yourself often hold more conviction when performing

Hiding behind experimentation is a funny thing to say. Tom's voice and arrangements are amazing. I'm finally catching up on his later discography recently and I'm loving his work with old spirituals and jazz numbers.

Ron Mael:

"Clouds forming on the gospel sky, trouble is about to brew on us
It didnt matter that we tried, they can only take a few from us
The fins and the paws and hooves and feet Saunter up the gangway
The randomest sampling is complete
God, could there be someway
That I could
wear a hood
or by the
way I stood
Sneak aboard with you
Imitate,
Imitate,
Imitate,
Imitate,
they still know its you"

Apparently it's about Noah's ark.

"We're just a gleam in lover's eyes, steam on sweaty bodies in the night
One of us might make it through, the rest will disappear like dew
Pressure building, gettin' hot, give it, give it, give it all you got
When that love explosion comes, my, oh my, we want to be someone...

We're the future and the past, we're the only way you're gonna last
We're just pawns in a funny game, tiny actors in the oldest play
It's an angry sea we face, just to get the chance to join the race
Gotta make it, gotta try, gotta get the chance to live and die...

We just want to feel the sun and be your little daughter or your son
We're just words that lovers use, words thaat light that automatic fuse
When that love explosion comes, my, oh my, we want to be someone"

This one's about sperm

Not OP, but he chose a pretty average Dylan line. For the record, I read a lot of poetry and I contend Dylan does something with words that is not comparable to the great poets, but certainly poetic in his own special way. Adding to that, I've never read any piece of writing, period, that says so much and so clearly as Dylan does in these few verses:

You lose yourself, you reappear
You suddenly find you got nothing to fear
Alone you stand with nobody near
When a trembling distant voice, unclear
Startles your sleeping ears to hear
That somebody thinks they really found you

A question in your nerves is lit
Yet you know there is no answer fit
To satisfy, insure you not to quit
To keep it in your mind and not forget
That it is not he or she or them or it
That you belong to

Although the masters make the rules
For the wise men and the fools
I got nothing, Ma, to live up to

Paul McCartney is way better.
//thread

Yeah... that is really good. God bless the man.

I don't know if he's better than Dylan, but Elvis Costello is a pretty good songwriter that hasn't been mentioned yet.

Neil Young

yes, she is called Carole King

Jim Croce

He punch that one too?

Noel Gallagher

Robert Smith

Grandmacore and dadcore are the only good relative-cores

>I have never seen or heard of such a fish. But I must kill him. I am glad we do not have to try to kill the stars
Damn, give this guy the Nobel prize in literature.

MARK