Just a reminder if you hate George Lucas but claim to love Star Wars then you don't truly love Star Wars

Just a reminder if you hate George Lucas but claim to love Star Wars then you don't truly love Star Wars.

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yeah I can.

I'm sorry George. Episode VII was worse than you ever did times one hundred.

...

George is love, George is life.
The prequel trilogy is far better than the boring OG movies.

disagree = reddit.

I'm okay with that.

I'm a fan of good movies, not a franchise.

You really should find better things to do in your retirement than make nightly threads about yourself on Sup Forums, Mr. Lucas.

I love George but I hate Star Wars
I wish he stayed making stuff like THX

Reminder that George Lucas saw Rogue One early and called it "the best entry ever in the Star Wars franchise" so if you don't support it you're literally not a real Star Wars fan.

hating on Lucas is fucking retarded, seriously?

but hating the prequels is understandable, we all did

Proud to be fake, huh?

Only a sith deals in absolutes...

But no seriously George Lucas did amazing things for the craft of filmmaking, changed hollywood, changed special effects, changed the culture of America and through some really insightful and clever reworking managed to reboot the mono-myth. He made some impressive films in his younger years and he has a business sense paired with a good heart that will make him one of history's most successful and generous people.

But he is also a flawed, bitter man and a terrible fucking filmmaker who managed to single handily ruin his own reputation among the millions and millions of people that adored him. Either out of greed, or arrogance, or stupidity or some mix of the three he went all in on a trio of films that even his colleagues warned him away from and made countless suggestions which he roundly ignored. If you read into how the prequels came to be, the motivations he had, the reasons for the special editions and how those films were all made you come away with a picture of a man that either fundamentally didn't understand his own creation or outright hated it. The Prequels are very poorly made films when they didn't have to be, they were needlessly contrary to his original work in a way that almost purposefully alienates the people that loved them, and his attitudes and practices towards his fans smacks of contempt. There were numerous avenues that he could have taken to craft a trio of very strong movies that would have been beloved by young and old and had continued his tradition of creating immensely appealing works of fiction that people want to get lost in and celebrate. Instead he stuck to his guns and may have gotten what he wanted out of them, but in doing so he sabotaged most of his good will.

Like any person Lucas is multifaceted and flawed. I have deep respect for the man, he accomplished a lot of good. But he isn't without his flaws, and as with so many other works, star wars is bigger than Lucas.

Fake?

This is Television & Film, not some form of Sup Forums for Star Wars manchildren.
Even if I like a particular director, that doesn't mean I necessarily have to like every single film he made.

It's called having a taste you know.

Did Lucas always intend for the Stormtroopers to be clones? Recently watched the entire franchise for the first time in years and noticed that they all sound the same in the OT. Haven't seen the PT since the theatre release and the OT since the VHS boxset in the 90s.

...

It was never implied the stormtroopers were ever clones.

Is Lucas a reversecuck?

This. Jar Jar was still a mistake, but goddamn were the prequels more visually interesting and creative than JJ's shit. Rogue One looks really fucking dull too.

>possibly clever bait

w/e its late and I'm bored I'll bite. They don't sound the same in the OT, the two schmucks chit-chatting with each other while Obi-Wan is disabling the tractor beam on the death star in Ep. IV are clearly different voices, they're even different heights.

Lucas never intended stormtroopers to be clones, and I highly doubted that he even intended for the clones in "The Clone Wars" to be the troops of the Republic because naming a war after the troops used by the victor is something that no one ever does because it doesn't make any sense.

Part of why people hate the prequels so much is that they all seem to completely ignore the dropped threads in the OT that would make for story points in the PT. "Your father wanted you to have this when you were older." "We were good friends" etc... and instead seemed to work to actively contradict those films which just baffles people to no end.

>re.ddit
>plebian

What did the Sup Forumssmoker mean by this?

It's sad really, how his good, original and well-developed films are basically ignored all in favor of some stupid serial for manchildren. It's not wonder he went crazy.

>the prequels more visually interesting and creative

They were so visually interesting and creative that they didn't even feel like they belonged in the same fictional universe.

>that's the point! it shows how technology gets worse under a totalitarian regime!

And yet the technology in The Old Republic era which is still quasi-canon looks nearly identical to the technology in the OT.

This has always been the case for 100% of entertainment since the first cavemen put on a butt-fuck show for the rest of the tribe.

Nah wasn't bait. Could've sworn they all sounded the same. My bad. Into head canon it goes.

This is what autism looks like

Best post.

Lucas did revolutionary things, but he did stupid things as well.

Writing a film doesn't make you the creator of it. I love all parts of star wars except its writing, which is fucking abysmal. He also has no artistic vision with directing, leading to many shitty calls on his part that overall affect the quality of the franchise (e.g. han shot first)

These are very basic surface level things user, even a casual fan of the series would pick up on shit like this.

I fucking liked all the star wars movies all the same.

Lucas did what he wanted. He didn't bend over and do what other people wanted him to do.

You're right. They would. What they wouldn't do is try to figure it out and make a big issue out of it. Someone with autism would.

Which is noble of him, but that doesn't make his creations any good, or make him immune to criticism. You can shit yourself in public, doing what you wanted and not bending over and doing what other people would suggest that you should do but that doesn't make it unfair for people to point and laugh at you.

>make a big issue out of it.

All I did was disagree with the assertion that the prequels were visually interesting and creative. That is hardly making a big issue out of it. Instead of debating the merits of debating either make a point about the subject at hand or move on.

Jar Jar was only a mistake because Lucas didn't go through with his original intent to reveal him as a Sith lord. He was supposed to mirror Yoda with his first impression being that of a stupid, silly primitiive. Lucas never should have listened to the plebs who begged for the character to be expunged, they're the reason we never got the epic reveal to rival the original "I am your father" scene.

>implying making a bad movie and shitting your pants in public are even close to comparable

People shit on him because they hate the prequels or the way he changed the original films, but not once do they stop to realize how admirable it is to do what YOU want to do instead of what other people want you to do. He had no obligation to take the fans' advice. It was his creation. He made what he wanted. The fans can complain if they want but it won't change anything.

I think you need some elaboration for that second paragraph. Is he really a terrible filmmaker? What's so awful about the prequels that could have been saved?

Got any proof of that?

Think of any filmmaker that made at least one really good movie and a lesser movie that appeals to a much wider audience. The lesser movie is always more popular. Give one example of the contrary. You literally can't.

redditors please leave

No one is debating weather or not it was admirable of him to do what he did. People are debating the relative quality of his work and how it impacts the modern mythology that he created and let loose upon American culture.

Not meant as any kind of cop-out but it would be really hard to explain in this format, there are some good video essays out there about it, the plinkett reviews while entirely overrated and annoying make a few points about honest filmmaking flaws, and the book "How Star Wars Conquered the Universe" is a really good insight into what was going on behind the scenes on the prequels, and all of the movies.

Lucas isn't a Uwe Boll "bad filmmaker" he's perfectly serviceable, he knows how to block a shot, execute a scene, and make basic edits, actually editing was what we was passionate about in film school. Anyway his big failing is as a writer and in his later years as a multitasking director. A director is expected to do a lot when it comes to a trilogy of big budget films. Peter Jackson's work on The Lord of the Rings vs. his work on The Hobbit films is a good example of just how different one director can be from one experience to another.

Lucas has never been able to write, he had his friends and colleagues doing constant pitches and re-writes on his material for the OT and while he is credited as the writer on all three films his involvement varied quite a bit, and there was a also a lot of improvisation by the different directors and by the actors themselves. Most of the charm of ESB came from Kersher finding character moments that weren't in the script and making the film more personal, the actual shooting script is very sterile and stilted. Lucas is a master collaborator and you see this in his business ventures where he finds talent and lets it flourish by putting it alongside other talent. He went against his own habits with the prequels and really did surround himself with a bunch of yes-men and never got the kind of feedback and collaboration that he needed. The Original Trilogy is maybe 50% Lucas in terms of vision, direction, writing, and execution. He famously despises Episode IV because it turned out nothing like how he wanted it (cont..)

But when you bash the dude for doing what he wanted just because you didn't like a movie you're just a petty bitch. That's all I'm saying.

(...) because the film had to essentially be completely re-combined in editing into something that actually worked. A lot of his scenes that he wrote and shot with a purpose ended up on the cutting room floor, like Luke hanging out with his friends at Toshi Station etc... Most of the credit for that first film being as serviceable as it is in terms of narrative and pacing is due to the editing duo he hired, as well as his ex-wife who was a very talented editor and another strong collaborator. It was Lucas that found all of these people and brought them together to help him create the biggest film(s) of all time so he really deserves a lot of credit.

But again starting with Jedi and going into the Prequels he either lost, or discarded that collaborative zeal that he had and instead decided to exert more control himself. The Prequels are completely his creation and you can see the result. Some honestly good ideas, some interesting characters, some inventive designs and worlds, but all cobbled together in a big bloated annoying mess because he didn't have the input or help that he needed to really put those ideas into focus. This is part of why the expanded universe material around the prequels is regarded as being pretty damn good even by people that hate the prequels. The ideas are genuinely compelling as are (some) of the characters. So when you have other people adapting that shit with sharper narrative focus it really sings. The prequels have a lot of potential, but as they sit as films they are genuinely awful, and the third film is very much overrated as it has all the same flaws as the previous two, but has the advantage of wrapping up the story so it feels more satisfying (to some).

Again I'm not really doing this material justice, you have to do a lot of reading and watching and listening to really get the most out of this rather compelling story about Lucas and Star Wars.

>bash

He's a flawed man, he has his good points and his bad points. I happen to think he's a mediocre to bad filmmaker and I wish he hadn't made those stupid star wars prequels because there would be a lot less to criticize him for. Again him doing what he wanted to do doesn't make him immune from criticism. You can also respect a person and disagree with them.

But doing what he wants doesn't make him immune to criticism and that user wasn't bashing Lucas, hell, he praised Lucas for his early works involving special effects which were revolutionary and help make ILM what it was and is today.

He's saying Lucas is misguided. He is smart in certain areas but needs assistance in others, like a human being, with strengths and flaws.

I'm not talking about criticism. What's everyone's fascination with criticism in this thread? Hating a man because he made a movie you didn't like isn't criticism, and a lot of Star Wars "fans" do this.

I honestly would have liked to see his take on Ep VII.

The prequels may not be objectively good but from an artistic point of view it's kind of cool that something like Ep II exist - a Star Wars film that focuses more on a love story and a political shift, amongst all the other more action-based movies.

Say what you want about Lucas but he at least tried to make every movie unique in its own way without repeating himself.

It's hard to come up with a new "hollywood formula" but this guy tried. He failed though.

But I don't hate the guy, I genuinely have criticism about his style of directing.

Other user that madeand is completely on the ball with talking about how George works his best if there is something assisting him. Having free reign over his projects gave us flat shots, colour pallets that don't mix very well and over use of CGI instead of a mix of practical and CGI which almost always looks better.

He is an excellent starting point for a lot of things, he has this universe and details worked out, he just needs somebody to make the details more sensible for a movie scenario.

I didn't mean you, just the people that do.

I see what you're getting at and I consider the prequels to be flawed movies but I think that 'genuinely terrible' is too much. I think that people expect A level everything when going into Star Wars. As far as adventure movies with cutting edge effects go do any of the prequels' contemporaries stand above them?

This. Current Star Sars, more like Star of David Wars

The Phantom Menace is God tier with its CGI

What happened to that technology in AoTC?

Because AoTC CGI looked shit.

Beyond retarded muppet Yoda, which was fixed, I can find nothing in the prequels to complain about. Jar Jar is annoying, but tolerable. I think the trilogy does fine.

I'm much less optimistic about VII-IX.

Imagine letting a fat totinos creep trick you into hating movies that you loved.

That ring/ball ship was a model though.

he thought he would still have a part in helping out and assisting so they kept feeding him lies just until he signed the papers.

then of course kathleen kennedy who george hired in the first place sold him out.
now we're stuck with Cash grab wars the jew awakens

The prequels came out at the same time as The Lord of the Rings, The Matrix trilogy, Gladiator, and Titanic. In the grand scheme of early 2000's works they aren't remarkable, probably landing somewhere in the middle of the pack, but that's really just on the visuals. Episode I was pretty groundbreaking for 1999, but Episodes II and III were just good looking blockbusters for the period, they actually had some issues due to being early adopters of digital cameras which had lighting flaws.

In terms of narrative execution and general craft, well that gets to be more subjective.

The Phantom Menace is the best looking of the prequels because it had more miniature photography in it than any of the OT films and most of it was shot on location or on very well constructed sets. The CGI in the phantom menace isn't all that remarkable and is aging as you'd expect it to.

if you claim to be smart while using no true scotsman fallacies then you're not truly smart

>Lord of the Rings
I honestly prefer the prequels and think that Jackson missed the mark with his Lord of the Rings movies. Anything moving or impressive in those movies feels like it got on screen in spite of Jackson rather than thanks to him. Considering what The Lord of the Rings is we really should have gotten much better than 3 long action/adventure movies. John Boorman should have been allowed to make his version. He might have been nuts but he understood and appreciated the source material like nobody else seems to.

For narrative execution and craft I think you have to talk about the series as a whole so the time-frame has to be completely shifted. As standalones the prequels are controversial but I think most people can agree that the greater whole of the complete saga is unlike anything else in movies.

>look at me I know what a fallacy is
cuck

TFA made me realize I actually hate Star Wars

TFA is not star wars, just some lazy nostalgia cashgrab to exploit the masses.

How did they fall for it so bad

People rightfully called Jurassic world on its shit, but TFA pandered so hard it was embarrassing

I liked Jurassic World more than TFA. It felt like it had scraps of a good movie trapped inside its focus-tested shittiness. Meme-lord as the raptor-wrangler was an inspired choice but my god did that movie have the most pathetic and pointless family drama subplot in the history of fiction. In the middle of showing the Supersaurus break out and start killing people they cut to that obnoxious faggot kid so that we can see him cry because he thinks their parents are getting a divorce. WHY!?

Oh yeah, and Star Wars. Whatever. It was shit.

Star Wars is just a lot bigger and has a lot more fans. Also Star Wars fans are more passionate (and pretty dumb). Look at any Star Wars discussion on normiebook and you'll have your answer.

most people are stupid, it's that simple.

That's pretty poetic.

>tfw George was the good guy all along
youtube.com/watch?v=pWvoFE7W288

im so sorry george i abandoned you..

Nice ad hominem.

>That ring/ball ship was a model though.
Exactly. Lucas didn't make Phantom Menace 100% CGI hence why it looked good

lmao practical effects win again

how will cgi cucks eve recover

This. When will Hollywood learn to fuck off with CGI?

I don't care if it takes an extra 2 years for a movie to come out. At least they will be making actual art and not bland pathetic lazy CGI which looks so fake on screen.

Hating George's personality and decision making isn't the same as hating him as a director. He knows how to direct a film but not how to run a company.
Meh.. It wasn't that bad.

this

Fuck off, Reddit.

same here

Why did he think it was a good idea to sell it to Disney? Couldn't Lucas Arts / Lucas Film / whatever it was called run by itself?

You have autism.

>He knows how to direct a film but not how to run a company.

He's practically a fucking trillionaire user, you're an idiot.

He made like 10 billion dollars just selling a franchise.

I swear, people who hate on Lucas just don't get that he doesn't give a fuck about what you think of Jar Jar, because Jar Jar sold a billion toys.

I know it doesn't really look much like it but that place sort of reminds me of the island Luke lives in in TFA.

I was referring to Red Tails and his selling Star Wars to Disney when he could have made even more without them.

Star Wars is nothing but an empty canvas put in the hands of amatuer hacks who have zero understanding of what made it great. So no, it's not bigger than George when you consider that it's soulless crash-grabbing shit without him now.

if you want to do down the bullshit route that lucas just got lucky with all the work he's responsible for, you'd might as well put the blame entirely on "the people he brought together" for the prequels not being as good, like steven speilberg refusing to direct the phantom menace because "george needs to direct again"

did he fail though?

as you might notice, green screen and cgi is everywhere these days. the cgi in the prequels everyone shits on was all the first of its kind

none of the prequels were 100% cgi, it's just that no one bothers to look because all they care about is memes and hatred

>believing the toytic meme
sorry but it's pretty obvious that if lucas really cared about merchandising like it's often claimed, we would have seen at least HALF the amount of star wars branded shit disney put out last holiday season

I agree.

You have autism.

>we would have seen at least HALF the amount of star wars branded shit disney put out last holiday season

Not even Lucas can compare the the Disney juggernaut

In what kind of reality do you live in when you claim that Disney is whoring out Star Wars much worse than Lucas ever did? Disney is almost tame compared to Lucasfilm in terms of merchandise.

Is THX 1388 any good?

>CGI
Everything in the pic you posted were real models, including the fighters.

Agreed. And if you claim to like Star Trek but want to ditch Gene's magical communism you aren't a Star Trek fan either.

I don't hate him, I hate the prequel films. Gg.

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