Really, the english pronunciation

Really, the english pronunciation...

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quora.com/How-did-the-th-sound-in-English-develop-and-why-is-it-so-hard-for-most-non-native-speakers-to-pronounce
vocaroo.com/i/s1RjoZL2kBbP
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting
vocaroo.com/i/s0yAYnMDnfJe
my.mixtape.moe/sggzbd.mp3
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

es muy fácil

Is hard for me ;_; I wan´t talk like a brit BUT I CAN´T!!


WHY LIVE?!!!

i was just joking, english pronunciation makes no sense at all

cough, though, through, rough, dough
bomb, tomb, comb

Hell i need some trips or... God help i wan´t to take an C1 exam.

>this meme

prove that every other language doesn't have difficult pronunciation on account of it being foreign

it's not the difficulty of making the noises (although th is one of the hardest noises to make in any language), but the variation in pronunciation of things spelt in the same way

>prove that every other language doesn't have difficult pronunciation on account of it being foreign

Honestly, what's difficult about the pronunciation of Spanish?I think it is a very simple language, few vowels, phonetic writing, consonants are simple and common digraphs; Removing the words of Basque or Aztec origin, everything is simple.

The only difficult sound in Finnish is the R. Some diphthongs might be weird as well, like "yö", but otherwise it's a very simple language pronunciation wise. We even have vowel harmony to help with that. Stress is also always on the first syllable. We also have a falling intonation instead of the rollercoaster that it is in English.

The sounds in English aren't necessarily that difficult on their own, but sometimes you have to switch your tongue to a completely different position very quickly and that tends to cause problems. Of course it gets easier with practice, but it is completely arbitrary and you have to learn each word separately to know where to put the stress etc

>tfw I hate to speak English because my accent is stupid and ugly af

It's one of the only languages that make me sound like a silly teenager

Spanish has /θ/, if English learners struggle with it, they will struggle with Spanish too.

>read (rid)
>read (red)

>tear
>tear

>eye
>i

>steak
>break
>streak
>bleak

>plague
>plaque
>ague

>billet
>ballet

>blood
>flood
>food

>wind
>mind

+1 All the romance speakers had this problem.

Fucking anglo.

>read ever being pronounced like 'rid'

Guess french english students are too self aware like the spanish ones
We have the same R than finnish. Its probably easier phonologically for a spaniard than for an anglo
Bias because its your native language

>The weather was beginning to affect his affect.
>A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
>They were too close to the door to close it.
>Don't desert me here in the desert!
>Do you know what a buck does to does?
>When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
>How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?
>The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
>He could lead if he would get the lead out.
>After a number of injections my jaw got number.
>I did not object to the object.
>We must polish the Polish furniture.
>He thought it was time to present the present.
>The farm was used to produce produce. The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
>There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
>I seconded the motion that the official be seconded to another department.
>A seamstress and a sewer fell down into the sewer.
>To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
>I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
>Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
>The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
>The bandage was wound around the wound.
>I was reading a book in Reading, Berkshire.

>the "TH" sound

Who was the retard who came up with that idea?

I don't sound naturally manly and 'very masculine', but when I speak other romance languages, slavic languages, germanic languages (English excluded) I sound 'normal'

But when I speak English, no.

It's really frustrating, because I like your language and it's the Lingua Franca...

Put the tip of your tongue under the top row of teeth to make a th sound. Make a fff sound like this and it'll come out as a th sound.

How many languages you know?

I know. Doesn't answer my question tho'

French, English, Spanish.

But when I record myself saying some shit in Russian, German, Swedish, Finnish, Polish...I sound 'normal'

quora.com/How-did-the-th-sound-in-English-develop-and-why-is-it-so-hard-for-most-non-native-speakers-to-pronounce
Record some English for us

Sorry, I have no mic

You seriously can't lack awareness to this extent. The English language has an absolute arseload of phonemes inherited from dozens of language and not a lick of consistency.
Most other languages are either far more phonetically consistent or at least have a script which is far more representative of the spoken language. Take Polish and Dutch, for example: both sinfully ugly languages but still manage to be written like they sound. Sure, it sounds like someone dry heaving a lot but at least you can read it and know how to pronounce words without necessarily having to hear them spoken first a few times by a native.
With English, you're pretty much fucked because there is almost no reliable way of telling how something is read just by reading the word. We take that shit for granted, really.

noice

stupid forest niggers

you're just struggling because English is the innate language of the human being
I imagine dogs would complain about it too

No. Some languages have more complex and diverse sounds than others. Some have long and short vowels, some don't.
Japanese and chinese are as foreign to the average westerner, but japanese with its simple sound system will be much easier to pronounce than chinese.

Gee, sure could do with the input from a Paki cunt. Oh wait, no one asked for that. Fuck off.

>This sound goes back all the way to Proto-Germanic

Do it the french way
>stek
>brek
>strek
>blek

>not 'striiiiiik' and 'bliiiiiiik'

YOU ARE NOT FRENCH!

thats because you autists pronounce the letter I as /aj/ instead of /i/ or /i:/ like it should be

If humans naturally speak english, what do brits speak?

and why the fuck are [θ] and [ð] both written as ?

>french
>long vowels
'No'

stop this meme people love the french accent on both genders

wtf english is retarded

Blame the Brits and their mongrel ancestors.

What is wrong with it? I quite liked the voiced version of it.

no one can pronounce it

People who didn't have those sounds in their language couldn't hear the difference, and they already had a writing system and didn't feel like making up new characters because muh Roman alphabet.

>i like the voiced dental fricative
it's the ugliest sound in english

english pronunciation... is the best pronunciation

Dental fricative [θ] exists in Spanish too
"Z" and the "ce/ci" use it
Latin americans hate it and use "s" in its place but they instantly sound very spanish if they use it

Me and my countrymen can through, probably because we have aspirated t /tʰ/ that somehow very similar to /θ/ (except you don't put your tongue between your teeth).

vocaroo.com/i/s1RjoZL2kBbP

I don't even know how to pronounce this shit

I just pronounce it like a V.

(at least, I don't make this shitty typically french 'Z' sound, kek)

Post the text version and I'll record it.
>inb4 just write it down yourself

I don't think /θ/ sounds very much like like /tʰ/ at all, but then again, Finns have a similar problem; in the absence of /θ/, non-fluent English-speakers tend to just use /t/ for /θ/, /ð/ and /tʰ/. "Tuu tii tu töötituu," as a foreign minister supposedly said when ordering tea to room 32.

Do you pronounce [θ] as f then too?

I used to do that too until I learnt how to pronounce [θ] and [ð]. I still sometimes struggle with them when I need to switch from another sound to one of the dental fricatives or vice versa.

i can't even make the voiceless dental fricative and i'm a native english speaker. voiced is the only version that matters, really.

Reeeeeee

What do you substitute the unvoiced version with?

France is so hard that even Walloons can't even speak it properly

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th-fronting

/ð/ becomes Sup Forums except for at the start of a word, /θ/ always becomes /f/. i didn't even realise i did it until a few days ago.

English is easy you fucking cunts, if you get something wrong it get's chicks wet where as if you fuck up something in Europe they just think you're rude or an idiot

just blow out air and place your tongue on the bottom of your top teeth.
I don't understand why so many have such a problem with this

i CAN make it, it's just awkward and unnatural to do. like in the word depths, i simply can't pronounce it with a /θ/, it's almost impossible to do.

I thought a thought. But the thought I thought wasn't the thought I thought I thought.

Three thin thieves thought a thousand thoughts. Now if three thin thieves thought a thousand thoughts how many thoughts did each thief think?

The thirty-three thankful thieves thought that they thanked the other thirty-three thankful thieves throughout Thursday.

Father, mother, sister, brother - hand in hand with one another.

They threw three thick things.

Thirty thousand thoughtless boys thought they would make a thundering noise. So the thirty thousand thumbs thumbed on the thirty thousand drums.

Is this the thing? - Yes, this is the thing.

kek

greeks?
Although don't Icelandics use it as well?

It's no doubt the rarest consonant sound in English

>they threw three T H I C C things

Yup, Greeks, Icelandics, Spaniards and some Arabs do. Dunno who else. I like it btw, it's fun to pronounce

iirc θ is pronounced as an aspirated t in greek

In ancient greek yes, modern greek it's pronounced like th in English.

Burmese has it too.

>niggas whomst pronounce /ʍ/ as /w/

>Dearest creature in creation
Studying English pronunciation,

I will teach you in my verse
Sounds like corpse, corps, horse and worse

I will keep you, Susy, busy,
Make your head with heat grow dizzy.

Tear in eye your dress you'll tear,
So shall I! Oh, hear my prayer,

Pray, console your loving poet,
Make my coat look new, dear, sew it!

Just compare heart, beard and heard,
Dies and diet, lord and word,

Sword and sward, retain and Britain.
(Mind the latter, how it's written).

Made has not the sound of bade,
Say said, pay-paid, laid, but plaid.

Now I surely will not plague you
With such words as vague and ague,

But be careful how you speak,
Say break, steak, but bleak and streak.

Previous, precious, fuchsia, via,
Pipe, snipe, recipe and choir,

Cloven, oven, how and low,
Script, receipt, shoe, poem, toe.

Hear me say, devoid of trickery:
Daughter, laughter and Terpsichore,

Typhoid, measles, topsails, aisles.
Exiles, similes, reviles.

Wholly, holly, signal, signing.
Thames, examining, combining

Scholar, vicar, and cigar,
Solar, mica, war, and far.

From "desire": desirable--admirable from "admire."
Lumber, plumber, bier, but brier.

Chatham, brougham, renown, but known.
Knowledge, done, but gone and tone,

One, anemone. Balmoral.
Kitchen, lichen, laundry, laurel,

Gertrude, German, wind, and mind.
Scene, Melpomene, mankind,

Tortoise, turquoise, chamois-leather,
Reading, reading, heathen, heather.

This phonetic labyrinth
Gives moss, gross, brook, brooch, ninth, plinth.

Billet does not end like ballet;
Bouquet, wallet, mallet, chalet;

Blood and flood are not like food,
Nor is mould like should and would.

Banquet is not nearly parquet,
Which is said to rime with "darky."

Viscous, Viscount, load, and broad.
Toward, to forward, to reward.

And your pronunciation's O.K.,
When you say correctly: croquet.

Rounded, wounded, grieve, and sieve,
Friend and fiend, alive, and live,

Liberty, library, heave, and heaven,
Rachel, ache, moustache, eleven,

...

There was a phonetic shift where all words ending in /dVr/ became /ðVr/.
e.g. father, brother, weather, rather etc. So easy to remember this class of words.

Grimm's Law accounts for most others iirc. I'm not familiar with the rules that predict which ones are voiced. Originally, they were the same phoneme. I'm not aware of any situations where you can interchange the two and get two different words.

We say hallowed, but allowed,
People, leopard, towed, but vowed.

Mark the difference, moreover,
Between mover, plover, Dover,

Leeches, breeches, wise, precise,
Chalice, but police, and lice.

Camel, constable, unstable,
Principle, disciple, label,

Petal, penal, and canal,
Wait, surmise, plait, promise, pal.

Suit, suite, ruin, circuit, conduit,
Rime with "shirk it" and "beyond it."

But it is not hard to tell,
Why it's pall, mall, but Pall Mall.

Muscle, muscular, gaol, iron,
Timber, climber, bullion, lion,

Worm and storm, chaise, chaos, and chair,
Senator, spectator, mayor,

Ivy, privy, famous, clamour
And enamour rime with hammer.

Pussy, hussy, and possess,
Desert, but dessert, address.

Golf, wolf, countenance, lieutenants.
Hoist, in lieu of flags, left pennants.

River, rival, tomb, bomb, comb,
Doll and roll and some and home.

Stranger does not rime with anger.
Neither does devour with clangour.

Soul, but foul and gaunt but aunt.
Font, front, won't, want, grand, and grant.

Shoes, goes, does. Now first say: finger.
And then: singer, ginger, linger,

Real, zeal, mauve, gauze, and gauge,
Marriage, foliage, mirage, age.

Query does not rime with very,
Nor does fury sound like bury.

Dost, lost, post; and doth, cloth, loth;
Job, Job; blossom, bosom, oath.

Though the difference seems little,
We say actual, but victual.

Seat, sweat; chaste, caste.; Leigh, eight, height;
Put, nut; granite, and unite.

Reefer does not rime with deafer,
Feoffer does, and zephyr, heifer.

Dull, bull, Geoffrey, George, ate, late,
Hint, pint, Senate, but sedate.

Scenic, Arabic, Pacific,
Science, conscience, scientific,

Tour, but our and succour, four,
Gas, alas, and Arkansas.

Sea, idea, guinea, area,
Psalm, Maria, but malaria,

Youth, south, southern, cleanse and clean,
Doctrine, turpentine, marine.

Compare alien with Italian,
Dandelion with battalion.

Sally with ally, yea, ye,
Eye, I, ay, aye, whey, key, quay.

Say aver, but ever, fever.

...

am i h'white?

Neither, leisure, skein, receiver.

Never guess--it is not safe:
We say calves, valves, half, but Ralph.

Heron, granary, canary,
Crevice and device, and eyrie,

Face but preface, but efface,
Phlegm, phlegmatic, ass, glass, bass.

Large, but target, gin, give, verging,
Ought, out, joust, and scour, but scourging,

Ear but earn, and wear and bear
Do not rime with here, but ere.

Seven is right, but so is even,
Hyphen, roughen, nephew, Stephen,

Monkey, donkey, clerk, and jerk,
Asp, grasp, wasp, and cork and work.

Pronunciation--think of psyche--!
Is a paling, stout and spikey,

Won't it make you lose your wits,
Writing "groats" and saying "grits"?

It's a dark abyss or tunnel,
Strewn with stones, like rowlock, gunwale,

Islington and Isle of Wight,
Housewife, verdict, and indict!

Don't you think so, reader, rather,
Saying lather, bather, father?

Finally: which rimes with "enough"
Though, through, plough, cough, hough, or tough?

Hiccough has the sound of "cup."
My advice is--give it up!

>finnish
>white
sorry honey

Terrible language tbqhwu
vocaroo.com/i/s0yAYnMDnfJe

>tfh'w not white

Fun times in the school of trying to talk (as in, actually flap your tongue, lips and stuff) about sounds in other languages with someone from a different linguistic background. Shit effectively becomes a game of broken telephone the instant anyone opens their mouth instead of shutting up and scribbling down IPA symbols.

>What you think a sound is supposed to be
>What you think the sound is
>What you try to pronounce
>What you actually went and said (silly you)
>What the other person expected you to say
>What the other person's ear heard (reception in auditory phonetics)
>What the other person's brain heard (perception in auditory phonetics)
>What the other person expected to hear
>etc
>mfw

it's funny because i'm the whitest
my.mixtape.moe/sggzbd.mp3

You gotta get rid of your mother tongue's categorial perception if you wanna learn another language. Then it is not hard to just imitate the sounds another person makes.
On paper/via internet, you really need IPA though. I've seen some people write overly complicated pronunciations with IPA though, such as US-Americans putting a nasal tilde over every single vowel symbol.

Maybe I'm just a dumb American, but I actually love English spelling. When you read a word, you can infer the layers of history contained in that word. It's a whole additional level of connotative meaning or implied history that can add a lot to both poetry and prose. It's like seeing the rings of a tree. It's the difference between hardwood flooring and ceramic tiles.

The only spelling reforms I would propose are bring back æ, θ, and ð because they convey history.

if you want to bring æ back then you silly americans need to stop spelling encyclopædia as 'encyclopedia'

I would reserve æ for the vowel in cat, fat, sat, etc. as it was in Old English.

>When you read a word, you can infer the layers of history contained in that word.
But that's not something that should be part of an everyday task such as writing stuff. If you're interested in etymology and linguistics, you should study that shit or at least look it up in a dictionary.
I would be all in favor of bringing back the ol' English letters (but thorn instead of theta), but to use them in a orthographically flat alphabet, perfectly depicting current pronunciation.
Not really, since it's pronouned /i/ in that case.

>tfw everyone else is wrong

>th is one of the hardest noises to make in any language
reallly????

yes lad, not many languages have /ð/ or /θ/, let alone both.

>But that's not something that should be part of an everyday task such as writing stuff.
Sure. I definitely empathize with this argument.

>The voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative is a type of consonantal sound used in some spoken languages. It is familiar to English speakers as the 'th' in thing. Though rather rare as a phoneme in the world's inventory of languages, it is encountered in some of the most widespread and influential[.]
>This sound and its voiced counterpart are rare phonemes. Among the more than 60 languages with over 10 million speakers, only English, Modern Standard Arabic, Standard European Spanish, Burmese, and Greek have the voiceless dental non-sibilant fricative.[citation needed] Speakers of languages and dialects without the sound sometimes have difficulty producing or distinguishing it from similar sounds, especially if they have had no chance to acquire it in childhood, and typically replace it with a voiceless alveolar fricative (/s/) (as in Indonesian), voiceless dental stop (/t/), or a voiceless labiodental fricative (/f/); known respectively as th-alveolarization, th-stopping,[1] and th-fronting.[2]
>The sound is known to have disappeared from a number of languages[.]

t. 250 vowels

wtf i hate english now

Nice job my guy

Thanks. Did I mispronounce anything besides "another" sounding a bit awkward?

No it's pretty much perfect. All I would say is make the h sound in th a little less breathy

your if sounded a bit odd, not enough emphasis on the f.

Ok, I'll try to remember that.

Gonna record it again.

brb

I've heard native Minnesota accents that sounded weirder than that.

You pronounced boys wrong