Have you ever convinced an American that their gun laws are extremely stupid and actually make them less safe?

Have you ever convinced an American that their gun laws are extremely stupid and actually make them less safe?

Never have I ever

Their immunity to reason and statistics on this issue is scary and impressive

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t; Lindt Chocolate Shoppe victim

youtube.com/watch?v=eGMYCg_8eK4

No, because their gun laws aren't extremely stupid and don't make them less safe. America isn't a country full of pussies who give up their guns after a single shooting.

Throughout the issues it may cause at times, it's worth it to be able to have that right

I'm not wording it very well but, that's the bottom line, issues will persist either way, but this way we have a right that we grew up with as a nation living on, giving us more options here on how to live

>Have you ever convinced an American that their gun laws are extremely stupid and actually make them less safe?

If you start a conversation with aims to convince someone of something and you start with "You are extremely stupid" you are not going to convince that person for some weird and unexplainable reason.

Also, there is the "Backfire Effect" (or something), when we are exposed to evidence that contradicts your beliefs (that may or may not based on other evidence) you become more zealous to your initial belief, to the point that you maybe even rationalize that somehow the contradicting evidence is wrong.

>lets take guns away from law abiding citizens while criminals will still have them so that we can't defend ourselves
That's a flawless idea

>gun control faggots
>having any evidence besides "muh scary black plastic assault weapons with their baby-killing heatseeking high-capacity rounds!"

I'm not attempting to convince anyone with this thread, I'm displaying exasperation and confusion at their pigheadedness. I don't think it's possible at all the convince them

>make them less safe
>implying safety has anything to do with it
You fundamentally don't understand the point of American gun rights.

That's literally not what gun control is

Every time you do this and it's so fucking stupid. I bet you think it's hard for regular, law abiding Australians to get a gun

They're all convinced it makes them safer and will argue this point every time. Libertarians are a minority that no one gives a shit about

>literally not what gun control is
you fundamentally don't know what American gun control is.
Do you know what they do in states like California?
They ban things because they ``look'' like something. They ban things by name.

You don't understand politics at all. The politicians in states like California don't actually care about the safety of their supporters. They write nonsense gun control laws to make it seem as if they're doing something, when they aren't doing anything remotely useful.
On the off chance that they write a law that actually has an effect on the ownership of guns, take a look at what they're banning. What demographics owns the kinds of guns that they're banning?
I tell you what: The people committing the majority of crime in this country do not own the kinds of guns that they are banning. The people committing the majority of crime own cheap $100 handguns ``Hi-Points'', Mossberg 870 shotguns, and that's about it.

Every gun control law targets the demographics who only buy very expensive guns in the $1000 range.

>be australian
>decide you want an sks
>can't get one because faggots needlessly restricted them in the 90s, good luck getting a licence for most semi-automatic rifles
>said restrictions have had no observable effect on gun crime

Woah...so this is the power of gun control

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

The right to bear arms is an American right, going all the way back to the birth of our nation. Yes, Its dangerous. But, America has the largest militia on the face of the globe, if you take into consideration how many people are armed.

Lets see how well an invasion of our nation would play out....as well as how long a brutal dictator would be able to stay in power considering these facts.

>there are currently dicksuckers living in the united states RIGHT NOW who won't defend this

But in all seriousness, military larpers are the worst.

America doesn't need less guns per se. They need stricter rules on who can access them and when or where they can use them. Also, handguns, which make up the vast majority of guns used in crimes and accidents, shouldn't be as available as long guns.

just gonna SEND IT

SHALL

Now explain to me how any random thug in Chicago constitutes a "well regulated militia."

maybe gun control would make school shootings stop

People have the right to own weapons, but they should be heavily restricted. Australia's gun laws are too restrictive. I think we have a good balance.

I don't know what's worse. The leftists who have no respect or understanding of the 2nd amendment or the Americans who don't understand that the US Constitution is a living document that's perfectly able to change with the times.
The world is different now, the gun laws should be changed with another amendment to reflect that.

>US Constitution is a living document

Shit bait

America was founded on blood, slavery and violence.
Culturally, it wouldn't really fit into any other country but to some extent it does actually work in the US to let people defend themselves. Because they're cops are terrible, the politicians even worse and then they've got blacks running around as bipedal crime waves.

I don't actually like our gun laws here, but I abide by them. Not because of a 'need to defend myself', but because I have a farm, do professional pest removal and have pistol shooting as a recreational hobby. That is the cultural firearm difference between the US and Australia.

>living document
t. non-American
This ``living document'' shit show is propaganda used by Supreme Court justices to legislate at the bench.
The concept that the Constitution is a living document is a direct affront to the concept of Separation of Powers.

It's not bait, and it is a living document. Amendments have been added as recently as 1992.

>they're
their

>fuck!

Amendments are added by acts of Congress.
There are ZERO constitutional amendments that make changes to the 2nd amendment.

It's just a phrase that means it can still be changed. It doesn't have to stay the exact same way it was written in the late 18th century. If it makes you feel better, replace "living document" with "changeable via a 2/3 majority vote by both the Congress and Senate"

How do Australian gun laws prevent you from doing that?

The idea of amendments is opposed to the idea of a living constitution. The idea of a living constitution is that what a constitution means can change without there being an amendment. When judges are able to magically decide what the constitution means (like in Canada or the US) it undermines the rest of the system.

Yes, I understand that there are 0, I am saying that, as a result of the changing world, there should be 1

``changeable via 2/3 majority vote by both the Congress and Senate'' does not mean ``changes whenever the fuck I feel like it, shit was written 300 years ago, when it's LITERALLY THE CURRENT YEAR''

``should be 1''
not according to 300 years of Congress.
It's almost as if 300 years of Congress knows better about their own country than you do.

NOT

Our gun laws are a mess of bureaucracy that lacks national uniformity,
I have an alphabet of licences from A to D + P and none of them are transferable between say NSW and Qld, because the cops there have different 'views' on what constitutes a certain type of firearm.

It's really just made so difficult that it discourages people from adopting the hobby and helping cull feral animals

Calling them "faggots" doesn't help either.

I'm not advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater. I like the idea of a modern gun law amendment that reflects the modern America.

Less "300 years of Congress knowing more" and more too many years of lobbyists, bipartisan deadlock, poor education among constituents regarding guns and gun control options, etc.

Upvoted xD

Dunno mate I wish we had american gun laws here.
A lot of Poles despite being enthusiastic about owning guns doesn't own one because it's such a shitshow to get one, me included.
On top of that we're poor as shit and crapton of legislation, prices of firearms are extremely prohibitive and the crapton of legislation doesn't help that.

Any argument muh danger is pretty much nullified cause any adult Pole can go online and order a functioning replica of a black powder revolver online and have it delivered to your doorstep without asking any questions. A 6 shooter means 6 potential victims of some retard, yet Poland is yet to hear about slav dindus blasting themselves to pieces revolutionary style.

And yet despite all these years of lobbyists and bipartisan deadlock, we still have 17 amendments after the Bill of Rights.
You know what a modern gun rights amendment for a modern America looks like?
>A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

And yet Supreme Court legislators go through the mental gymnastics Olympics to imply that the sentence above means literally anything else.

Our gun laws are extremely stupid and actually make us less safe.

>The people committing the majority of crime in this country do not own the kinds of guns that they are banning. The people committing the majority of crime own cheap $100 handguns ``Hi-Points'', Mossberg 870 shotguns, and that's about it.

This is a very good point.

Around 21,000 people commit suicide in the USA with handheld guns, cheap and easy to get.

the 14,000 people who die by firearms are also killed by cheap weapons

The semi-automatic expensive rifles only appear on the gruesome but relatively rare gunnings that hit the news. That albeit tragic, are probably the least probable way to die by firearm.

I guess that more people die mixing ammonia and bleach to clean their toilets.

Americans are mentally ill. No one in the developed world has copied their unique approach to gun laws, health care etc. but they're convinced it's everyone else that must be wrong

Because every other bloody revolution after ours were lead by dictators (communists) and didn't want to give people the right to have another bloody uprising.

The French revolution didn't adopt the 2nd amendment because it was a new idea at the time, and they already had the short-lived concept that every man was a soldier for the State.

Not really since they still recognise that as a right by all private citizens save those with violent criminal records, to purchase any firearm, private or public sale, with nothing more than an unenforceable background check and excepting fully automatic weapons which require a bit more paperwork and taxation.

Like I asked before though? In what way does any random thug in Chicago represent a "well regulated militia."

india?

they use Farenheit and imperial system instead of celcius and metric

Of course they're retarded

USA doesn't have military coups de state because the USA doesn't have American embassies.

>actually make them less safe?

That would be niggers, not guns.

But the places in our country with the highest gun violence rates typically have more restricting gun laws.
The issue is more or less cultural. You can have open gun laws, and still have a safe society.

Let's check the list of Supreme Court rulings
>a well regulated militia apparently refers to the National Guard, even though anybody with sense could tell you that the National Guard is nothing close to a militia
>The right to bear arms is not infringed as long as either open carry or concealed carry is available as an option
Even though this means that it is illegal for 50% of the people in California to carry a gun anywhere, because they have a state-wide law that bans open carry in general, and counties refuse to provide concealed carry permits.

The Supreme Court is more like Supreme Nepotism. If this is not ``legislating at the bench'', then nothing is.

It's funny that you mention ``any random thug in Chicago'', because it is illegal for those with felonies to own guns, period. They own their guns illegally.

Another interesting point is that militias are commonly infiltrated by federal government intelligence agencies, who try to bait the legitimate members into committing domestic terrorism (fighting the government) so they can arrest them. The ATF is notorious for this.

Britain let go of India so that they wouldn't repeat the same mistake they did in America.

Yes, but you can't ban substandard cultures or black people, and the effort to implement black people control with the civilised world's highest incarceration rate isn't working either, so that just leaves banning guns (which is bullshit) or implementing modern gun control (which is what needs to be done).

myanmar

Communists.

Ireland

>Muslim does a shooting using a gun he bought from an American gun store that does not do background checks
"lol must be cuz he's muslim."

>Illegal immigrant does a shooting using a gun he bought from an American gun store that does not do background checks
"lol must be cuz he's an immigrant"

>Mentally disabled does a shooting using a gun he bought from an American gun store that does not do background checks
"lol must be cuz he's insane."

Legitimate 2nd amendment usage (if only they had it), consequently destroyed by the British.
History is written by the victors.

uh they are democratically elected now

Gun violence in America is not due to guns.
It's just that Americans are violent people.
Take their guns they'll start throwing stones at each other.

abcnews.go.com/US/video/parents-fighting-high-school-graduation-47469661

Shit like this doesn't happen outside of America and Africa

American policy in respect to protectorate states and states with similar standing is to prop up a democratic state without the ability to fight for itself (see Japan) so we can fight for them.

what?

USA is not the protectorate of myanmar.

``states with similar standing''
See Japan, South Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Phillipines.
None of these countries have a 2nd amendment. If we wanted them to have it, they would have it.
Personally, I'm not going to question the wisdom of our cold war leaders.

what the fuck kind of fucked up logic is that?

you said

>>Because every other bloody revolution after ours were lead by dictators (communists) and didn't want to give people the right to have another bloody uprising.

where the fuck do you mention protectorate and this horseshit your spewing now?

I never said anything about having a felony. Lots of murders don't have prior felonies and can buy guns legally. I'm sure there are lots of problems with the Supreme Court translating laws in retarded ways and corrupt government agencies. These are all good reasons why a very clear and detailed amendment should be added regarding modern gun control. No room for excessive mental gymnastics, no nonsense about what constitutes a well regulated militia or even if the commas negate the necessity of a well regulated militia, etc. Just good, clear, sensible, modern, gun laws, that allow the populace to have reasonable access to reasonable firearms for collecting, recreation, hunting, investment, home defence, etc.

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

So what you're telling me, is that after toppling a country's government, destabilizing the region, and putting all of it's people through shit, and holding their hand until they can stand on their own two feet, you want to give them the power to chase you out so they can be ruled by the next warlord?

Cold War wisdom understands two things: You don't give guns to everyone that hates you, and you don't give guns to people who can't culturally handle it (result: South America, drug cartels)

What you're spouting now is the fact that you don't understand decades of Cold War results, and the viewpoint of an imperialist power.

So what you're telling me is that you want to take peoples guns away because you THINK they are going to commit a crime? George Orwell is spinning in his grave.

>So what you're telling me is that you want to take peoples guns away because you THINK they are going to commit a crime?

No, I don't know if you're an idiot or I'm just really bad at explaining my point. I am generally in favour of gun ownership. I am not in favour of the concept "shall not be infringed" in modern times. You need 356 of the 535 senators and congressmen to place some reasonable infringements on gun ownership, acquisition, and use.

Not to mention banning guns won't do a whole lot since so many guns are already circling around the black market. Lunatic shooters could easily get a hold of one.
What we really need to do is legalize drugs, that way there won't be as much crime and gang presence plus more police can be allocated to actual violations of the NAP and not victimless crimes like drug use.

See, the problem with your idea of a modern 2nd amendment given our current understanding of the shitty state of the Supreme Court is that first of all, they would never let it happen.

The longer the law, the more holes you are going to find in it. But as we can see, even though the 2nd amendment is as short as it is, people are still applying mental gymnastics. So you need to go shorter.
Best result that fits your criteria, 3 words: "Everybody gets guns." Literally zero room for interpretation. Problem: It's fucking stupid.
You will never write a 2nd amendment that has no room for interpretation, that is not stupid.

Solution: You clarify the 2nd amendment through acts of Congress. Case in point: HPA, SHUSH acts. The longer parts of law that clarify the 2nd amendment are easier to pass and easier to undo.
Still, it's hard to say that even this method will go anywhere.

>Be Australian
>Be in a country with their own retarded gun laws
>Be all the way across the world from America
>Act like you are a specialist on American crime and insult the intelligence and sanity of those who don't want stricter gun laws
>Don't know that the majority of gun violence in America is committed with black market or stolen guns so gun laws won't do shit except leave more people without protection

Good because my I want Amerifats to kill each other

Hope it stays legal

...

>my

I should really check my comments before posting

>Banstralian threads

>Muslim terrorists run over dozens of people with trucks and blow themselves up in the name of Islam on a weekly basis
>"STOP BLAMING THE MUSLIMS YOU DIRTY GOYIM OY VEY YOU NEED TO BE MORE TOLERANT OR IT'S OFF TO JAIL WITH YOU!!!! >:("

>One crazy person snaps and takes an illegally obtained weapon into a gun-free zone and opens fire
>"IT'S THE GUN'S FAULT!!!! WE NEED TO BAN ALL FIREARMS!!!! IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WERE MENTALLY ILL, WE NEED TO BAN GUNS SO CRIMINALS WON'T BE ABLE TO BUY THEM!!!!"

>Another crazy person snaps and does the same thing, only he's stopped by a citizen carrying a legally obtained gun before he can do any damage
>[Silence from the leftist media because it doesn't fit into their agenda]

See? I can play this game, too.

SHALL

you know guns are basically banned in Chicago, right?

now lets see if that works

oh.. it doesn't

>school shooting happens
>LOL IT'S THE SCHOOL'S FAULT FOR NOT HAVING STRONG SECURITY MEASURES, NOT THE GUNS FAULT XDD

But it worked with Canada aperntly

Canada is not filled with ghettos and doesn't already have literally hundreds of millions of firearms and billions of rounds of ammunition in the hands of citizens already.

You solve America's outrageous wealth inequality, poverty, racial divide, and all its other social problems and they people won't want to fucking shoot each other.

No we don't have corrupt scumbags willing to throw their own people off the planes, for example.

so if there was no racial divide, blacks in chicago would be shooting whites not other blacks? no thanks

poor people shoot other poor people

One of the contributing for black people being poor is racism. Their culture is also backwards trash that holds them back, and that's their own fault, but also racism.

Canada hasn't banned guns. Lots of Canadians have guns and they are fairly easy to get.

>Area with no gun control where everything is fair and no one tries anything because everyone is packing heat
Liberals: "WE NEED TO HAVE MORE GUN CONTROL LAWS SO THAT CRIMINALS WON'T BE ABLE TO GET ANY, THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!"

>Strict gun control measures pass, making it harder for law-abiding citizens to purchase guns for self-defense, meanwhile crime continues to rise because now only criminals have guns and people aren't able to defend themselves like they could before
Liberals: "LET'S BAN ALL GUNS THEN, THAT'LL SURELY SOLVE THE PROBLEM!!!! NO GUNS = NO MORE GUN CRIME!!!! ONLY THE POLICE SHOULD HAVE GUNS!!!!"

>Guns become outright banned, leading to crimes with knives/blunt objects to rise because people are now completely helpless, meanwhile gun crime continues to exist because any dumbass criminal can still get his hands on one illegally
Liberals: "WELL THEN LET'S JUST BAN ALL WEAPONS PERIOD, THAT WAY NO ONE WILL BE ENCOURAGED TO HURT EACH OTHER!!!!"

>Rapes, murders, muggings, burglaries, hate crimes, etc skyrocket, but there is now virtually no more gun crime because simply owning a gun is enough to get you put in a federal prison. Also, there are armed patrols everywhere and the police have free reign to do whatever they want as long as it "keeps the peace", essentially creating a police state for the little guy while the rich continue to prosper and look down on everyone
Liberals: "PERFECT, WE ARE NOW A TRULY EQUAL SOCIETY FREE OF HATE!!! REMEMBER TO CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE EVERY DAY AND DON'T TALK BACK TO BIG BROTHER!!! :)"

tl;dr get fucked commie

you tell em

Literally no argument. Sorry you live in a shithole that's literally run by the cartel. Maybe you should do us a favor and flip one off?

That's right, Amerilard. Guns are good, and so are school shootings and niggers mugging people.

But sure, keep believing people use guns for "self-defense" more than they use it to commit crimes.

Their gun law might not be extremely stupid, but alot of Americans are. Maybe they've been dumb down after being on top the world for so long, and now they don't know what to do when they're faced with challenges.

>inb4 America has the smartest people in the world
That's because most smart people are imports coming to America for that piece of American pie.

I'll take the occasional school shooting over literally being snatched up in the middle of the night by the cartel any day.

>and niggers mugging people
This only happens in shitholes like Detroit and LA, where (Surprise!) there's strict gun control and a bunch of drugs

>But sure, keep believing people use guns for "self-defense" more than they use it to commit crimes.
States with less gun control and more gun ownership always have a lot less crime total. Meanwhile areas that ban handgun ownership often have high crime rates. Look it up.

Stupid liberal get shot

Do you have any data to back that up? Because every single study that has ever been done on the subject shows that with gun ownership increase there's a decrease in crime.
If you want them to be convinced you should at least be, you know... right.

Ban niggers tbqh

Holy god, this obsession.