Is 1971-1972 Yes lineup the most talented band ever?

Jon Anderson, Chris Squire, Steve Howe, Bill Bruford, Rick Wakeman. The amount of musical talent is just ridiculous, and they capitalized on this by making two borderline perfect albums with Fragile and Close to the Edge. Are there any other bands with comparable musical talent member to member?

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lol no

I would put them pretty close. Vocals Jon > Geddy (even though I love Geddys vocals). Drums Bruford > Peart slightly. Bass Geddy > Squire slightly. Guitar Howe = Lifeson.

Queen

Freddy and Brian May yes. Deacon and Taylor can't touch Buford and Squire.

I could get behind both of these. I need to listen to more Yes though, that's for sure.

Probably the Mahavishnu Orchaestra or Todd Rundgrens Utopia; honestly, 70s prog had overkill levels of talent. However Yes sort of realises their potential far better than most other bands.

>

Rush doesnt really compare to Yes, especially not at this early phase where their music was literally still hard rock.

Peak Rush does, the playing on Hemispheres is amazing.

The original Jazz Messengers with Horace Silver is fantastic. That said, Larks' Tongues in Aspic KC is up there (Bruford, Fripp, Wetton, Cross, Muir), and also Selling England By The Pound Genesis (Gabriel, Hackett, Rutherford, Banks, Collins).

Now is probably the time to also mention Soft Machine

Are you kidding? Rush is pop music with occasional time changes and a few stupid show pieces like La Villa. Yes is orders of magnitude more complex along multiple axes of complexity and the quality of their music is so much higher there's no comparison at all.

I particularly like King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" more than Yes's "Fragile". But the difference is pretty minuscule, they both are fantastic works.

Shakti is more talented than Mahavishnu Orch IMO

YYZ was pretty cool.
Genesis - Selling England by the Pound > Yes - Fragile

Thank you wise sage of prog

This is also the reason why i prefer 80s synth Rush. The mixing of new wave with their hard rock roots is far more interesting for me.

Can and The Who

you are underselling Rush a ridiculous amount right now. Instrumentally they are top tier. No rock band can play stuff like yyz as cleanly as Rush can.

The Highwaymen and The Traveling Wilburys are probably worth mentioning

>80s King Crimson blocks your path

We are only comparing these bands to Yes though. No reason not to have both Mclaughlins.

both have bruford so

The Chad Crimson vs the Virgin Sellout Genesis

But honestly, i love Invisible Touch

Genesis 1973-75 lineup. Too bad Bruford only played with them the year after Gabriel left.

Kevin Ayers Soft Machine best Soft Machine.

What makes Yes a better band is that their music doesn't sound dated. At least Fragile and Close To The Edge are the only albums people I know thought it wasn't old. Not only their production, wich is amazing, but their style, talent and the final mixture of all five, made that lineup the best rock lineup I know

Rip legs

Do supergroups count?

Prog bands like Yes were very talented at their instruments, no doubt about that, and some of their albums were good. But for the most part the songwriting sucked, so I guess that depends on how we define musical talent.

Oh nvm that was wyatt

I was meaning to make a Yes thread but this will do.

Instrumentals>>>songs though and Yes nailed the former

But Fragile and Close to the Edge had some fantastic songwriting on top of technically proficient playing. Its the best of both worlds

I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to say

What about Romantic Warrior-era Return to Forever? The four of them were insane

youtube.com/watch?v=ZqiC5_88cVQ

Any deathmetal band or fusion band could play YYZ perfectly while blindfolded and falling over drunk. It's not remarkable.

Rush is not technically impressive aside from a fast riff here or there. It's just not. I'm a huge fan and have multiple Rush albums on my music player at any given time. The fandom is retarded though. The idea that people actually believe Niel Peart is "the best drummer ever" is absolutely laughable. Rush fans in general are sheltered noobs who have never listened to more complex music or are too pleb to understand how much more complex lots of other music is.

This is perfect.

They still wrote catchier songs than any other progressive rock band.

>77186812
>They still wrote catchier songs than any other progressive rock band.

you fookin wat, mate?

You mean Camel

Patrician Collins coming through

We get to a level of technical proficiency where its impsossible to differentiate what musician is more "skilled" then the other and we decide based of personal preferance. The difference between Peart and 99% of fusion and death metal drummers is that he actual knows how to write an interesting drum part. Thats why he is often concidered the best, not because he is the best technically, that is impossible to determine, but because his drumming is extremley interesting and demands attention in context of the songs.

Somebody explain who Bill Bruford is to this guy already.

Jazz trained drummers of the 70s werent the technical fodder memes that metal drummers these days are. Jazz trained drummers in prog not only write enthralling parts but improvise them too.

in terms of bands still around now, I think Animals As Leaders is making a good stab at this title

youtube.com/watch?v=Vrbt14uej08

I know who Bruford is, he's one of my favorite drummers. I said 99% for a reason. Also i was talking about Rock music, there are jazz drummers that can compare but its not bold at all to say Peart is one of the best rock drummers of all time.

Oh my bad. Its just that... fusion basically is jazz drummers.Yeah Peart is definitely one of the better purely rock drummers; if not, actually the best.

>We get to a level of technical proficiency where its impsossible to differentiate what musician is more "skilled"
At some level, yeah. Peart is NOWHERE NEAR that level. Vinnie Coliauta, JoJo Mayer, Benny Greb, Tony Royster Jr., any other fusion drummer, many jazz drummers, and a million unheard-of gospel drummers can all play the socks of Neal Peart in their sleep with one hand.

make way for the true godtier drummer

No, Frank Zappa's 1974 band takes that title.

L I F E T I M E

It's easy to just throw out names an claim they are easily better with no proof in order to try to get people with no understanding of the topic just to assume you're right. There isn't a single drum fill that Vinnie Caliauta played that Peart can't. Beyond that their style and approach to drumming is so completely different that it's useless to compare them. Vinnie has his strengths and weaknesses so does Peart. Beyond that you're literally picking at hairs.

I hope so

Bruford
Holdsworth
Wetton
Jobson

>Muddy Waters: Vocals & Guitar
>Jimmy Rogers: Guitar
>Otis Spann: Piano
>Little Walter: Harp
>Willie Dixon: Bass
>Fred Below: Drums
All the guys you mention here would kneel before this band.

You kidding? Peart doesn't even have high level hand speed. He never plays anything chopsy ever. His entire "skill" consists of playing basic rock fills at mid tempos across simple time changes.

Even though I rarely listen to them, Toto has always been chock full of crazy talented players.

Hey retards

Listen to Tormato and tell me how talented Yes are.

His impact comes from his power. His influence growing up were the more unhinged drummers like Ginger Baker, John Bohnam, and Keith Moon. He's playing rock music, why would he need to reach Buddy Rich speeds. You're criticism him for not having a perfect Jazz skill set, literally an entirely different genre. Those Jazz drummers can't play Rush music with the same impact as Peart cause guess what, they are completely different styles.

>band did bad things so they're not talented even though they did several of the best things ever done
>hey retards
>retards

Exactly. Same reason why Bonham isn't considered the greatest player ever, but he's still regarded so highly. His creativity and approach to writing drums are what makes those Rush albums work so well.

"power" is not a skill. Laughable.

You're arguing that he's just as good as any other drummer and there's no valid way of comparing him and coming to the conclusion that he's lesser than other drummers. Then you're openly admitting that he doesn't even match up to an entire mega-genre of drummers in terms of a basic metric like hand speed.

>Fragile
>Closer to the Edge
Great albums, yeah.
Best things ever done? Fuck no.

Relayer is one the best things ever done though.

Tell that to Bonhan and the fact he and Peart have had more influence on drumming in general then every one of those fusion drummers combined.

Cause I have the ability to understand that there is more one metric for determining a drummers technical skill, especially when different genres require different skillsets and approaches to drumming.

This

I mean thats literally the definition of a supergroup after all; the collaboration of the finest talent.

Also. Based album.

This user gets it.

On one hand, drumming being as physical as it is, power; is a skill to me.

On the other hand, jazz drumming isnt merely a different style; its the most exciting and limitless drumming style of them all.

What? That has nothing to do with my post. You are plainly contradicting yourself because you don't even have a point.

Only until Animals, before Roger went insane, also, while it's still great, Fragile isn't even the best 1971 album.

>One minute: Peart can play any fill Vinnie Calaiuta can play
>the next: well yeah Peart doesn't even have the hand speed required for jazz soloing but that doesn't matter......
Completely glaring contradiction aside...Sour grapes much?

My point is you're making a comparison that can't be made. It's like saying Victor Wooten is a better bass player then Jaco cause Jaco can't slap like the best funk players. They are both near the top of their instruments but because of completely different reasons, I dont know why you cant understands intruments like the drums is so multifaceted that comparing people at the top of completley different genres and styles is pointless.

He can, probably not as well but because they play extremley differently, Vinnie cant play la villa strangiato as well as Peart but he can, because the drum parts are written to suit Pearts style and strengths. You people are ridiculous, nothing black and white when it comes to skill on an instrument.

Syd Barrett alone is better than Pink Floyd.

Comparing their relative levels of skill is not "pointless" - you said Peart was at such a level of skill that it's impossible to differentiate his ability from any other drummer at that level. That's really obviously false because he's not that skilled. When one drummer could do everything the other drummer could do and a lot more that the other drummer couldn't do, that drummer has a higher level of skill. All the drummers I listed initially can do that in relation to Neal Peart.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Calaiuta's playing is full of nested tuplets and other super complex polyrhythms that are so, so, so much more difficult than anything Neal Peart has ever played in his life.

Can they do everything Peart can do and better? no they can't. You say they can, but you have no proof or anything it's just your uninformed opinion. Is there stuff that they can do related to jazz drumming better then Peart? yes. Is there stuff Peart can do better related to rock drumming then them? yes. That's why it's pointless to compare drummers at this level. You get into stuff like Peart's drumming style better fits and concise song then so and so but so and so has better improvisational skills, aspects that become more subjective and impossible to put definitive weight on when it comes to drumming skill.

>Is there stuff Peart can do better related to rock drumming then them? yes.
What stuff is that? Nothing he plays is hard. Any drummer I listed could play literally everything he has ever played easily.

Mad respect for them generating demand for a genre of music that was experimental to say the least.

I would bet you an obscenely large amount of money that Peart can play all those. People in their basement who play for fun can play Calaiuta's stuff to an acceptable level and upload it to youtube, let alone someone who has been a professional drummer for over 40 years. You're talking like these jazz drummers are playing stuff so complex and difficult that only 15 people who have ever lived could ever hope to approach them, which is ridiculous.

>literally so proficient it became a meme

If you think they could play everything as well and to the same style as Peart you're lying to yourself. They can play it but there are going to be aspects and approaches to it they can't directly recreate because they are specific to Peart's individual playing style.

>You're talking like these jazz drummers are playing stuff so complex and difficult that only 15 people who have ever lived could ever hope to approach them
Calaiuta is widely regarded as probably the best living drummer, and probably the best drummer in history, by a huge number of drummers. So, yeah, that is how I'm talking because it's true. The others listed are at a similar level or somewhat lower level, but all massively more skilled than Peart.

>Calaiuta is widely regarded as probably the best living drummer, and probably the best drummer in history

But that's not true, the fact you think a single drummer is definitively the best shows you're entire way of thinking is flawed. It's retarded to think any single musician is objectively the best at anything because music is completely subjective. You are clearly very biased to Jazz as a genre and cant comprehend the idea of stylistic differences have merits over jazz. You can subjectively think hes the best, but you can also find a countless number of skilled drummers who wouldn't even but him in their top 10. Are they wrong? no they are just as correct as you.

rush fags are the worst

I don't even listen to jazz regularly and am a way bigger fan of Rush and rock in general than I am of Jazz or any specific jazz groups or artists. Calaiuta has the most skills. Most good drummers agree. You're trying to change the focus to a subjective argument about styles but what you said initially, and what I've been arguing against this whole time, is that Peart is on such a level of skill that any comparison is meaningless. That's not true. Lots of drummers are way, way more skilled.

inb4 you conflate skills with styles or subjective tastes again.

>tfw live across the street from a member of Yes

What If I told you some of the most talented musicians in the world are unheard of?

Zappa's second Mothers band

>Calaiuta has the most skills. Most good drummers agree
This single statement that you are so set on is what de-legitimized your argument, it is so not true. He's not definitively the best drummer of all time, most skilled drummers do not agree on that. I don't know where you get this from. This isn't even about Peart, I personally don't think he's the best drummer either, but you're treating this opinion of yours like it's a universal truth that everyone agrees on. There are so many people that think Peart is one of the best, more then Calaiusta i promise, for many legitimate reasons. I can respect you opinion that you don't think hes as skilled as the others you mentioned but don't treat it like you're objectively correct cause you aren't. I can say John Mclaughlin is more skilled then Jimi Hendrix, am I objectively correct, no. I promise you significantly more skilled guitar players will say Jimi, just like significantly more drummers will say Peart.

>Our bodies balance out the waves

Yes has no soul in their music.

Geddy is a way better vocalist than Jon.

Every once in a while I sit down and try to figure out if I like Release Release

Actual Yes? As in someone like Anderson, Howe Wakeman, Downes

Nigga do you even Parrallels?

...

Close to the edge might be my favourite song ever written.

Anyone got any good suggestions on some more modern music that stacks up?

>itt: rush fags

Frost* - Milliontown
youtube.com/watch?v=xW2hjRO_2DA
Spock's Beard - The Great Nothing
youtube.com/watch?v=J8Zc7TJa1zU

And any Transatlantic song might be up your alley