Reminder, the character on the RIGHT = MARY SUE, the character on the LEFT = NOT A MARY SUE

Reminder, the character on the RIGHT = MARY SUE, the character on the LEFT = NOT A MARY SUE

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thats because all the traits Luke has are more natural for a man to experience. women being the hero of the day feels alien because it doesnt reflect their roles in real life that feminists believe don't exist because patriarchy brainwashing

Reminer, the sun sets in the WEST, the sun rises in the EAST.

to be honest luke was trully a mary sue

>hurr, I've been a farmer on a desert planet for all my life but magically I can pilot an X wing and be the best pilot on my squad

>what is the force

Luke was still a green fuck up in other areas. Rey is far more Mary Sue

;^)

Considering the character on the left had to be saved TWICE by his friends in Empire I don't consider him a Mary Sue.

Remember when Luke went to Cloud City and with little to no training beat Darth Vader? Oh you mean he got his ass kicked and lost a hand? Oh right. That was Rey that defeated the BBEG without any training.

>gets beaten up constantly
>needs saving constantly
>can't even defeat the fucking emperor on his own after 3 movies

Wait...your left or my left?

Are they related or something?

>comparing Vader to Kylo
>comparing the Emperor to Kylo
they are both so far beyond him it's not even funny

canonically he trained with ships on tatooine, not sure if an X wing but he indeed had experience on the topic

Missing the point, he still needed saving

Rey will never be saved by anyone because sexism

Luke wasn't a mary sue.

Anakin was though, at least in the phantom pain

Luke was mostly worthless until RotJ.

piloting was all he was exceptional at, on the other stuff he was just a kid with grandiose iedeas of being a hero

he had to be saved from the muslim raider (he didnt beat him with karate rey-style) he had to be saved at the cantina, he even had to be saved by han solo at the end.

so he was a good pilot (it is implied he used to fly a something t something on tatoiine) and had enough force sensitivity to take a well aimed shot with the help of han and the sacrifice of the other pilots

contrast this with rey who has top tier melee combat skills, piloting skills, mechanical skills and learn ALL the force powers and lightsaber fighting by herself by movie one

the two are not even comparable

Maybe not saved but she was defintely helped by the black janny when he fought Kylo after Rey had been btfo by a force push

>hurr, I've been a farmer on a desert planet for all my life but magically I can pilot an X wing and be the best pilot on my squad
Luke was a Skyhopper pilot. He didn't just "bypass the converter" and learn to fly. Also, he had to be saved several times by Obi and Han.

Did you even watch the movie?

Who the fuck is Mary Sue?

Okay, how about this.
>Almost killed in a bar confrontation until he's saved by his mentor. (Rey beats up 3 attackers)
>In a life or death situation (trash compactor), completely panics until he has a last second idea which he has no confidence in. (I bypassed the compressor)
>When attacked by stormtroopers misses almost every time. (Rey misses once)
>In the climax, not trusted to do anything until every other pilot dies. (given the Millenium Falcon and the map to Luke for no reason)
>Luke hears an undeniably magic voice telling him to use the force, so he attempts it. (Rey knows the intonation and wording to do a Jedi Mind trick)

MUH AMNESIA
MUH REINCARNATION

some Sup Forums buzzword

>copy everything grom a new hope except a main protagonist who has a lot of room to grow

How come he had JUSTed up hairline back then already but he is still not bald now?

Except he trained a lot with his Skyhopper, to the point of eventually breaking it. Rewatch A New Hope and stfu, normie .

He probably just had a high hairline or it simply stopped receding. Most men see some degree of change in their hairline even if it never goes into baldness.

It's possible he had work done on it, I guess, but given he was once pretty heavy and presented himself in rather unflattering ways I doubt it.

luke was enthusiastic and headstrong, but inexperienced and foolish
throughout the movies he often failed on account of his flaws, but as he developed and trained he overcame them and became a hero everyone rooted for

rey is enthusiastic and headstrong and inexperienced and foolish
in her first movie she succeeds at everything because she's the hero and we're expected to root for her right from the bat

Literally everyone shit on him for being a dumb farm boy except biggs

He had no idea how to use the force or a lightsaber for 2 movies

His caregivers are brutally murdered

gets shit on by a 2 foot tall alien

even at the end of the first movie he shares the credit with other people who saved his ass

We really need to get Brendan Fraser to contact mark hamill about some unjusting techniques

Did he play Meat Loaf in a film in 2012?

since Rey is already great at everything what will even happen in the next two movies

WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK IS A MRY SUE??!??!?!?

All that time spent at the gym JUST to turn around and take off his hood. Fuck Disney.

MALE HEROES IS A RESULT OF YOUNG GOING INTO DANGEROUS WAR AND BECOMING WAR HEROES.
FEMALE HEROES IS A RESULT OF FEMINIST PROPAGANDA!!!

only one white male protagonist allowed per movie

youtube.com/watch?v=jz3oSYB5XB4

Luke is a fish out of water story the entire time though.

He's learning and fucks up time and time again.

Rey is perfect the entire time and knows shit she shouldn't.

Which is why it's more than obvious Rey's story is far more complex and she's some clone or Force anomaly that will be explained further on. JJ isn't exactly known for his subtlety in a narrative. He's literally beating us over the head with it in Force Awakens. She knows that shit because of reasons to be explained later.

She's not some trainee.

I think you're confusing them for charcaters from another film, the one on the right is Rey, and the one on the left is Luke Skywalker

An author self-insert near perfection that everyone is talking about when off-screen is what I think of.

Story centered all the time and while they might be flawed they will have a perfect arc.

These things are nothing that Rey or Luke meet at all.

If you want real evidence about Rey's Mary Sue status, forget about her hyper competence.

Just pay attention to the fact that almost everyone in the movie immediately loves her. Finn loves her, Han loves her, Chewie loves her, Ripoff Yoda loves her, Leia loves her, even Kylo loves her. In fact I think the only character in the movie that doesn't immediately fall in love with her was the fat ugly portions alien.

>Which is why it's more than obvious Rey's story is far more complex and she's some clone or Force anomaly that will be explained further on.
Could be (I'm not as convinced as you are, but I do think it's likely). That doesn't make TFA any less boring, though. At best we'll be able to look back on TFA and say "Oh, that's why I guess." It's fiction. Anything can be "explained."

No matter how you slice it, Rey fails to be compelling in TFA itself.

She looks manly

I'm convinced she's going to become evil at this point.

Kylo is the one that wanted pure power but didn't have full grasp of the force. On the wrong side and all that.

Meanwhile Rey magically has everyone loving her and has pure mastery of the force.

The next one will be Empire Strikes Back mode with some big dark mystery coming up and roles will be reversed.

She'll tempt allies and be a dark bitch while Kylo will have a pure redemption arc. Probably saving/attempting to save Luke from Rey killing him.

It'd be pretty rad fucking pottery. 'muh twists and all that which is expected of Star Wars.

>I'm convinced she's going to become evil at this point.
VIII might bring a twist or two, and Rey becoming the villain would be an interesting one, but I don't think they'll do that.

It would create huge backlash for various reasons (kids identify her as the hero, for one thing). It's too gutsy, especially for Disney. I think Kylo having a redemptive arc is quite likely though.

What's risky about rehashing Anakin's arc?

It makes too much sense though for her to have all that influence and not naturally use it.

That final scene with the rift between her and Kylo is just too much foreshadowing. Hit me in the head with a rock for fuck's sake.

Plus that perfect ending and all the ambiguity with handing Luke the light saber.

She's a little too perfect and that's why Luke left her on the planet. He couldn't kill her but he knew. He knew he fucked up at that moment at the end.

Rey did live on her own.

He wasn't trying to. It was 2 against 1, but Luke was trying to save his father.

Anakin was introduced as a villain before we saw him develop into one. Prequels have a different dynamic.

Of course, children unfamiliar with the originals also identified him as a hero in the prequels and seem capable of grappling with his dickery, so I might be wrong about that backlash. I still don't think Disney will do it, though. It would be more like Luke and Darth Vader changing places than a rehash of Anakin.

desu Luke was a mary sue as well. some farmer who was good at flying the space equivalent of dirtbikes went into a giant space station full of trained soldiers, rescued the most important prisoner and came back to blow it up in his first time flying a combat aircraft.

>yeah but vader let him escape and the xwing was close enough to the stuff he was used to flying
ok

>That final scene with the rift between her and Kylo is just too much foreshadowing. Hit me in the head with a rock for fuck's sake.

I felt the same way. I thought they were going to do it right then and there.

Kill yourself

>Anakin was introduced as a villain before we saw him develop into one
"Yippee!"
"I should try spinning. That's a neat trick."

...

>desu Luke was a mary sue as well. some farmer who was good at flying the space equivalent of dirtbikes went into a giant space station full of trained soldiers, rescued the most important prisoner and came back to blow it up in his first time flying a combat aircraft.

He literally had a more experienced team with him for every single thing he did.

Mary Rey Sue did it all herself, because she is a strong woman who don't need no man.

It's so blatant and in your face it boggles my mind people still deny it.

There is literally a scene where the supporting male actor goes to take her hand and she slaps it away.

My favorite is her performing the jedi mind trick out of nowhere

>female protagonist who destroys evil white men in TFA will turn evil in the later movies

No fucking way.

You may have noticed this or not, but for me she seemed to be so fragile, despite her luck (?) So thinking about her as another "strong womyn" is bullshit. She's really a likeable character.

I just find the idea that they poorly set up Rey's descent into evil as opposed to merely making an uninspired and lazy Chosen One-style character a little more charitable than we have reason to believe. I could be wrong. I'd like to be wrong, because Rey thus far is grating and uninteresting. I just don't buy it yet. I'm not saying you're wrong, though.
Anakin was revealed to have turned into a villain in a movie that came out in 1980, over a decade and a half before The Phantom Menace. Finding out what makes someone so promising turn into such an asshole is the core source of tension in the prequels. That's the dramatic irony of it. Lucas even made Anakin "the Chosen One" to make it as heavy-handed as possible.

You have no clue how men and women work lol get real

...

I've said this in other threads. But people are too triggered by muh stronk woman to realize that godlke power alone doesn't actually make a Mary Sue. It's having almost no flaws and, most egregiously, having every character like, respect, and be fascinated with them immediately when they've done nothing to earn it.

It looks especially bad when you contrast it with Finn, who had to struggle to gain his courage and earn the respect of others. Like an actual character should.

I doubt she'll ever go full evil, but I definitely think the dynamic between her and Kylo won't be about her levelling up in goodness to beat Kylo. It'll be about the interplay of both of their potentials for light and dark, and how they go forward as characters with those choices. For that to happen, Kylo will have to stay on the teetering balance between getting worse and possibly redeeming himself, and Rey will have to go significantly darker so the audience questions her too.

This is what I think will be the main tension between the two characters and with Rey herself. If the story isn't about her just getting stronger to beat her villain, then it makes sense that they let her win in TFA.

>needs to be rescued from fucking sand people
>can't escape the Death Star without Obi Wan's help
>can't use the mind trick until RoJ after years of training
>cannot get his ship out, Yoda has to do it for him
>almost freezes to death on Hoth and needed Han to rescue him
>gets BTFO by Vader the first time he faced him
>even in the end, still needs to be rescued from the Emperor

Also important, he's not instantly loved and respected by everyone. Luke gets treated like the immature child he is for most of the series.

Luke was far better because they did a good job portraying his green, naive attitude and everyone around him gave him shit for it like Solo, Leia.

Rey showed hyper confidence throughout the movie, did next-level jedi shit without training or exaplanation, and everyone loves her because Pussy.

The only truly out there feat of Luke was shooting down the death star, but that was all wrapped around playing it up, Force, Kenobi helping him from beyond the grave so it was tolerable.

If there was heavy foreshadowing Rey was mind-wiped and actually undergone heavy brutal-ass jedi-training and some reason they wiped her memories of it but it triggered when seeing fucking lightsabers and a huge scene around this triggering, it would still be retarded but more tolerable.

They both succeeded against incredible odds when they would have clearly had to fail.

They are both mary sues.

I'm not falling for your bait son. I know you know that I know that you know so you're not going to play me, at all.

she's a Palpatine. Luke will lie to her the same way Obi-wan and Yoda lied to him in the OT.

He and one of his mates joined the rebellion. His mate, not force sensitive, was also a pilot because the both of them raced through grand canyons chasing Gorilla tiger things. And with all that experience Luke had no idea how to fly the Falcon. In fact he didn't understand it's controls, at all. Rey though knew how to fly that shit without any prior training or practice because she's disney's newest fairy princess who needs none of those things because she's MAGICAL!

yeah but then she used force pull, and out pulled Ren and managed to beat him thoroughly and that was after she used force suggestion and force telepathy without prior training or practice because Rey's all, MAGICAL!

stop thinking with your dick

>Young, impressionable youth being in over his head, bailed out multiple times but slowly fulfils his destiny and becomes more competent.

>Young, ultra hardcore battle-hardened youth that can solve any moment of crisis competently with the skill of thousands of ancient warriors.
>Already fulfilled said destiny but the story has to act like the destiny is still to be completed.

I think the former is a more compelling story.

Well look fails on more then one occasion and isn't until the third movie he a match to the bad guy.

My favorite scene was when she pulled a light saber out of Ren's force pull, now that was impressive. Fucking Luke took almost five minutes to make the hilt shake.

But Luke didn't shoot down the death star. Unless of course you think the rebels built homing torpedos on the off chance a force user might help them take the shoot. But the rockets had a homing beacon to find their target. The real problem was the speed and the trajectory messed with the timing. So you had to TIME your shot or you'd miss. It would be like making a basketball hoop while riding a horse, I guess.
Prescience, that ability that heightens your awareness only ever aides in your TIMING, that's it. It aided Luke earlier by telling him when to move the saber to block the stinger droids lasers. It aided Anakin when racing pods at dangerous speeds, and it aided Obi Wan when facing Grievous' spinning sabers.

I'm not. I don't even like female actors. But I like her character and I want to know what is going to happen with her in future.

>Character on the left spends all of the first movie being shown up by everyone else
>Second movie he literally has to be saved by being shoved into a dead tauntaun, then makes every wrong choice and loses his hand and friend
>Last movie he finally starts doing shit right, but he's not even the one who saves the day

Hey, remember that scene where she first met Finn and she was half interested, half bemused and then half giggling the entire time? Hey, remember that compressor scene when Han acknowledges her and she has this stupid bewildered look on her face? yeah, daisy can't act for shit.

Luke literally got his ass handed to him every time. Even Anakin had to get good by wrecking several pods and his Prescience ability only ever made him as good as his alien opponents, never better than them. He wrecked every pod before the events of TPM. The last battle he was carried to the battle via remote, and avoided danger like he practiced to do in a fighter that had controls identical to a pod racer. Anakin was no mary sue, in fact, he lost to Dooku and then to Obi Wan.

I play star wars roleplaying games with my nerdy friends all the time. Because jedi are overpowered in our rulebooks we regularly homebrew new rules for them depending on the time period. One of our most recent writeups detailed separating force powers into distinct tiers.

tier 1 powers amplify your pre-existing abilities: hit harder, jump farther, aim better etc.
tier 2 powers change the world around you:
mind trick, telepathy, telekinesis etc.
tier 3 powers add to the world around you:
create lightning, ignite objects, fold space, phase through walls etc.

i know these autistic rulesets have no bearing on the movies but its an easy way of determining power levels. Where was luke on this list? Where was Rey?

Luke was Tier one by the time of the third film, Rey was tier two well on her way to tier three without any training, or having practiced.

Luke was able to use telekinesis with yoda in empire and mind trick the twilek in jedi.

So by the third film he matched the force-accomplishments of rey in her first.

Imagine giving a shit about Star Wars lmao.

No, he did not. Because Rey used Force telepathy and out mind raped Ren without any training or having practiced. Luke's telepathy was pretty good by the second film's end. I think the training with Yoda made him a better everything. Still took a year and some to make green saber though.

satan pls no bully

We'd have to assume she has good tier 1 and top tier 2 powers. Either that or those guys she beat up were from aliens made of styrofoam-like flesh

We sympathize with the character on the left because he's a young person out of his element and constantly being surprised by the strange universe around him and struggling to succeed despite his hardships.

Meanwhile the character on the right is a pro at everything and fits right in/masters any strange situation she encounters and even has abilities that other characters of her talent would not even acquire until later movies and timeskips.

Rey is going to be the primary antagonist of the series.

I remember watching the Return of the Jedi for the first time and being annoyed at Luke for still being a fucking idiot and letting himself get trapped by Jabba.

So you mean that the japanese inspired Star Wars followed the path of anime by having more self-insert mary sue MCs as time went on? Pottery?

Stop watching entry level anime

If you knew anything about anime, few, if any, are at anytime Mary Sues. Unless of course you're talking about Gun Gun lagarun or whatever the hell it was called. Naruto, Luffy, Ichigo, Sasuke, all of them had their asses handed to them on more than one occasions. Goku died twice even.

basically, she's using straight up magic right off the bat. One could argue that it's space fantasy so it doesn't matter.

But that goes against the world building in a very specific way. In both ANH and TFA people are extremely skeptical of the force and jedi. In ANH people like Han Solo exist who think that whatever """magic""" luke is doing is just sheer luck. TFA doesn't appear to be much different, in fact i'd reckon that people would be even more skeptical considering the time between TFA and the time of jedi being a regular sight in the galaxy.

People like Han Solo, as skeptical as he is, wouldn't exist if people like Rey existed.

They only way Rey could be salvaged is if she really was a trained Jedi with amnesia

Goku also spent all of his time training and learning from great masters.

that would still be stupid as fuck and the first movie would still be garbage even if you posthumously made it make sense like that.

Reyfags confirmed retards

>white men in 2016
ugh... I can't even...

This is why Rey is such a glaring Mary Sue. She's never taught, and had never trained but she's using master level abilities.

And to add Lucas based the Jedi on kung fu shaolin temple meets Samurai. So the force ability is meditation and becoming one after you've been trained and after you've practiced and the saber is samurai. IN both cases you have to be taught then you have to practice. In the prequels they complained that many force users had become arrogant and didn't train anymore.

reminder that Daisy Ridley said everyone who calls Rey a mary sue is a SEXIST BIGOT

This bait is tasty and I want to echo what everyone else said, but I really do think Luke is NOT a Mary Sue and is actually a really great example of how you can make someone the Chosen One while dodging that.
Luke's skills are both limited and explained by his background.
He's a farm boy in a remote, fairly dangerous area. He is shown carrying a gun and so obviously has familiarity with weapons.
He explicitly states that he knows how to fly, he's effectively a space equivalent of a barn stormer.
And... uh... that's it. He gets beaten up and knocked around constantly, and during Leia's rescue it's Leia and Han who come up with all the plans. Luke's contributions are mostly being brave and eager, and having the force to help him out.
Also, the EMPIRE LETS THEM ESCAPE THE DEATH STAR. Just so we're all clear on that point, which accounts for the mildly skilled Luke taking out Storm Troopers.
Finally, he's not the *best* pilot in Red Squadron... he's the lone survivor. He's a skillful pilot who manages to survive and accomplish his mission through a combination of explicitly established skills, luck, destiny, and having a buddy come in to rescue him at the last minute.
Luke is a hero with amazing abilities, but he's extremely limited at the start of the series and his greatest asset really is that's he's got the Force on his side and he's very brave.
By the time of the later films, he's been fighting in the Rebellion for a few years and so we can expect him to be pretty BA.

Yes, that is true.