Remind me how again the Empire are the bad guys? All they wanted was peace, stability, and security for the galaxy...

Remind me how again the Empire are the bad guys? All they wanted was peace, stability, and security for the galaxy. The only reason they took increasingly draconian measures is because of the rebellion's extremely destructive nature. And before you mention the Death Star, how is that any different to the US developing and using nuclear weapons?

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The empire is not bad, but they're the "bad" guys. Also, the Sith are good. The Jedi in the prequels wanted to destroy all Sith in order to "bring balance to the force," meanwhile they have a temple full of Jedi. That's not balance. That's genocide.

>Le Empire did nothing wrong!

Nice counter-argument reddit

>overthrow a galaxy wide empire that would cause war and infighting for centuries
Real great idea rebeltards

>literally run by jedi hitler
>enslaves hundreds of worlds
>send out super powered assassins to kill the religious people that won you the war
>rape thousands of worlds of their resources to build a weapon they call the death star
>get rid of democracy to install a malevolent dictator
>made millions of clones to fight your war for you

How exactly are they the good guys?

They nuked a planet just to kill some jihadists

They nationalized commerce in the central systems

youtu.be/f00IkrWvur4?t=284

>I want to argue the intricacies of a manchild movie universe when even the creators didn't think that hard.

>All they wanted was peace, stability, and security for the galaxy.

[citation]

You are literally retarded, it's scary that you're allowed to live

They did not though, they haven't opressed anybody, haven't exterminated anybody, they are just giving the middle finger to the trade federation and securing their own planets. Keep in mind that the galactic empire is not an authoritarian political system, but a democratic one, a supreme chancellour or not, what do you think happened after Palpatine was killed in ep6? Empire or not, it's not authoritarian. And it's not "white supremacist" as disney jews label it.

There's like 4-5 Sith in the prequels though, can that really be considered genocide? It's also not like you can ever wipe out Sith for good. They're "fallen" force users, there will always be more.

>>made millions of clones to fight your war for you
Republic did that. Empire employed human troopers.

This, control your autismo op

what's with the gum?

>haven't exterminated anyone
What is Order 66

>haven't opressed anybody, haven't exterminated anybody,
They fucking blew up entire planets, are you even trying?

>enslaves hundreds of worlds
>rape thousands of worlds of their resources to build a weapon they call the death star
None of those are true. According to you the Empire killed every non white-human creature in the Empire and just exterminated all non-white creature planets in its reach?
How SJW are you, you damn jew fag.

>Republic
>Empire
Literally the same person running shit. Who do you think wanted the clones?

>Genocided entire peoples
>Destroyed the council
>Worked to take over planets by force

>They haven't oppressed anybody
(You)

I really wish the Biggs scenes weren't completely trashed. I actually like the alt reunion better as it gives a better idea of how good Luke is as a pilot and how similar Luke's ship is to the X-Wing. Biggs talking about the Rebellion is pretty fun too, I like the chemistry between them in that scene.

Try a little harder.

>All they wanted was peace, stability, and security for the galaxy.
for the galaxy?

They nuked a planet just to test a weapon.

>"The work is stalled. I need you to come back".
>"I won't do it Krennic".
>"We were on the verge of greatness, for providing peace and security to the galaxy:
>"I think you are confusing peace with terror".
>"Well... we have to start some where".

haha...

The Empire is basically the Soviet Union

This was Palpatine and a few brigades of assasins, you can do that in that position without the entire millitary force of the Empire knowing or ever agreeing to it.

>They fucking blew up entire planets, are you even trying?
They did? With what? Did they drop a nuclear bomb from a B-17? Or was it the non-functioning, not complete "death stars", even the name is a fucking joke by ol'Georgi.

well a dictatorship is inherently more 'bad' than a democracy no matter who is in control, but when the person in control is THE most evil person in the galaxy? yea they become the bad guys
maybe not every rank and file member of the empire is evil but the empire as a whole represents evil

Sorta, but it's different, after Palpatine as far as we know its a democratic or some kind of a millitary political system, unlike the Soviet Union which is authoritarian.
It's a collection of species, sorta like the Soviet Union which was a collection of peoples.
It takes land(planets) by force and forces its ideas on the native population, sorta completely like the Soviet Union.
It is a white supremacist organization, unlike the Soviet Union which was a Russian supremacist organization run by jews.
Sorta of.

>This was Palpatine and a few brigades of assassins
Palpatine = Empire, full stop.

>They did? With what? Did they drop a nuclear bomb from a B-17? Or was it the non-functioning, not complete "death stars", even the name is a fucking joke by ol'Georgi.
Did you have a stroke or something? What in the actual fuck are you trying to say?

But does it for people of the Empire, which is probably the larger part of the galaxy? I mean people on empire planets feel secure and as far as we know the Empire, unlike the Soviet Union is rich and prosperous, there are no commie blocks on Coruscant.

They're a white supremacist organization.

Senate is kill in ANH. They flat out state that it has been dissolved.

So since then the Empire is truly a dictatorship.

Being Sith isn't related to genetics so how can the extermination of Sith be considered genocide?

you might as well say the execution of death row inmates consitutes genocide

>In a dictatorship, every decision is made by the dictator.
Is this what you're trying to say? Because it's not true, there still are millitary bodies, civil bodies, a justice system, the dictator cannot pertake in every decision, he puts people to control those aspects, but not him directly. In big countries with big armies there are a lot of generals.

When did the Empire blow up a planet? With what?

Is it? Who is the new dictator after Palpatine?

I could actually entertain the idea of considering the empire as the good guys (outside of the sith lords) and the rebels as bad guys in the OT but after you get the details of how the empire was founded and came to power there's just no question, it's a creation of evil intents and serves an evil purpose even if it doesn't destroy every living thing in its wake

In the old canon, the Empire splintered into a shitton of factions led by different warlords who had once been under Sheev's control.
In the new canon, the Empire was annihilated except for a few cunts who became the First Order under Snorkel.

>enslaves worlds
>basically murders civilians constantly
>murdered the entire jedi order
>already had plans for the death stars back in the clone wars which would later be mass produced

The Empire, Rebellion, Republic, and Separatists are all evil in some way.

Please explain

I'm not saying everyone who fights for the Empire is bad. But the Empire as an entity is. Palpatine, and those who work closely with him:

>arranged the execution of 10,000 jedi
>blew up two cities just to test a weapon (including a base of their own soldiers)
>blew up an entire planet just to prove said weapon worked
>enslaved many worlds and entire cultures

Also, Palpatine has a hand in literally everything. He's ruling because he wants, in his own words, "unlimited power." He is using the Empire to achieve this goal.

He is evil, therefore his Empire is evil.

>Stormtroopers take rebels hostage if possible
>Rebels indiscriminately murder stormtroopers

Somehow the Empire are the bad guys

So why is the execution of the Jedi considered genocide then?
I still don't get it, why would people call the Empire evil? Palpatine started the clone wars all by himself and played both sides without any one knowing, is that not true? Then the Empire was created giving Palpatine full dictatorship, he of course started enlarging the now former republic's army. He then just crushed the enemies of the Empire in one fell swoop and just fucked up everything. The supposed rebels are rebelling against what? I bet the rebels are just fucking communists that want to be in power.

They fucking destroyed Alderaan. Have you ever seen a Star Wars film?

Has the rebellion actually done anything evil? They're no different than America during the Revolutionary War, really.

Of course they take captives to interrogate

>I still don't get it, why would people call the Empire evil?
>Palpatine started the clone wars all by himself and played both sides without any one knowing, is that not true? Then the Empire was created giving Palpatine full dictatorship, he of course started enlarging the now former republic's army. He then just crushed the enemies of the Empire in one fell swoop and just fucked up everything. The supposed rebels are rebelling against what? I bet the rebels are just fucking communists that want to be in power.

Choose one.

>rebelling for freedom is communism now

I guess only Americans can understand the concept of rebelling against an evil monarchy

apparently someone called "mas amedda" (scroll to the bottom)
starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Sidious

palpatine framed the jedi as an evil power hungry cult for trying to keep him, an evil sith lord bent on gaining power by any means necessary, from doing just that. and used it as justification to have them all hunted and slaughtered and place himself as the sole ruler of the previously democratic state

They mention that Palpatine is in the process of dissolving the Senate, likely because the Death Star plans had been stolen and based on the comment in Rogue One. Palpatine still needed the Senate to control some of the Core Worlds, but this all went awry when the Death Star plans had been stolen. Fortunately for him, he was able to dissolve it before they leaked (which everyone would know after ANH/Alderaan and the Rebellion would grow, as opposed to just the Rebels knowing), thankfully though the Death Star allowed him to use it as a deterrent if anybody seriously tried anything with the dissolving of the Senate.

There is no new Dictator after Palpatine, he just controls the Empire solely as opposed to a Senate. After his death and the Empire's fall the Republic is split into two factions, one of which is seemingly plotting behind the other's back and wants more military action (which would lead to the First Order) and the other wants more actual Senate/Peace talks rather than militarization.

In the old EU, it was about the same, but there were a few former Senators/Governors that sided with Palpatine and his dissolving of the Senate and they helped control certain sectors with their armies.

Its basically the exact same still.

>fight in a war for years that tears apart the galaxy
>finally win that war
>oh shit, leader takes complete control
>leader fucks over anyone he doesn't like
>leader makes your life worse
>leader took away your good democracy

Gee, I wonder why they rebelled.

Mas Amedda is the blue alien that was always with Palpatine in the prequels. He's the one that is always standing beside him and the one that walks out of the room before Sidious and Yoda fight.

Does enslaved mean like nigger enslaved or how jews were enslaved in Egypt, or it's like the Soviet Union enslaved other countries? As far as I know there are no slaves in the Empire, evil or not. Now, if you mean forcefully added planets/land/nations to the Empire I get it. But still, since the Empire is a prosperous, rich and orderly organization, unlike the Soviet Union I don't see the problem with it.

Palpatine is no more, retard, we're talking about how the Empire without Palpatine as seen through a citizen of the Empire's eyes is bad? Why are the rebels even rebelling? Is it because the empire blew up a few cities, buildings, killed somebody. How is it bad from the point of view of a soldier of the empire?

>Thrawn
>Admiral Dalla
>the multiple clones of Sheev
>etc.

The empire wasn't democratic. Not to mention the "draconian" measures taken by the empire were to secure star systems and subjugate other than human species...you point has been deflated. Before you talk about how the republic was ineffective. Let's remember that the emperor in Episode 1 started all the instability with the trade union defecting.

There is nothing positive about what the empire did. But your point of comparing the Death Star to nukes is valid, nukes are a problem because it is destructive power on a scale that could end our species.

They destroyed an entire fucking planet, killing billions.

>arranged the execution of 10,000 jedi
Who were a shitty authoritarian order that was planning to throw a coup if the leader of the Republic didn't do as they say even before they knew he was a Sith Lord.

>blew up two cities just to test a weapon (including a base of their own soldiers)
The first city they blew up was filled with insurgents and rebels who had been openly defying them and killing their troops.
The second one was under attack by Rebel troops and if they succeded in their goal the damage they could cause to the Empire would be way worse than just a blown up imperial facility.

>blew up an entire planet just to prove said weapon worked
Same shit as before, the planet was filled with traitors and its royalty was supporting the Rebellion.

The Empire is ruthless and clearly cares more about the greater picture and its goal of "Peace through the galaxy" than the individual lives that need to be sacrified to achieve it, not to mention that they seek to bring peace by threatening to blow up anyone who defies them.
And yeah, Palpatine is a dick but that doesn't make everyone in the Empire a dick,

yea I realized that after clicking the link to his page, I've never been too much interested in the post OT shit because it all seems like too much fanfic cornyness

>t's okay to kill millions of people if they don't agree with your totalitarianism
incredible

>Does enslaved mean
It means literally enslaved. At its best, they're "labor camps." At worst they're literal slaves (see: Kashyyyk)

>Palpatine is no more?
Since when are we talking about post-ROTJ? The citizens still know that he's in charge, so idk what you're talking about.

>good democracy
Good democracy my ass.
The Republic was the kind of inneficent and corrupt shithole where the likes of Nute Gurray or any space jew with enough money and influence could do whatever the fuck he wanted while the Senate discussed if they sould or shouldn't do anything about it.
The Empire isn't a nice and friendly organization, but the Republic was shit too, and judging by what TFA was shown us, the New Republic is exactly as shit if not worse.

>this terrorist group that was born from the remnants of the evil empire we fought to destroy are trying to kill us all, but let sit on our asses and just secretely support our own terrrist group instead of doing anything about it

>Who were a shitty authoritarian order that was planning to throw a coup if the leader of the Republic didn't do as they say even before they knew he was a Sith Lord.

>Same shit as before, the planet was filled with traitors and its royalty was supporting the Rebellion.
The planet had some rebels on it, sure. But it also had billions of innocents. You're justifying genocide.

> planning to throw a coup if the leader of the Republic didn't do as they say even before they knew he was a Sith Lord
[Citation needed]

No they weren't. They didn't trust Palpatine, but they weren't trying to overthrow him at all. The closest thing was asking Anakin to spy on him.

they wanted to ARREST Palpatine because he was the Sith lord behind the entire war and who was creating problems since episode I

>Who were a shitty authoritarian order that was planning to throw a coup if the leader of the Republic didn't do as they say even before they knew he was a Sith Lord.
They knew he was a Sith Lord and even then Padme, Organa, and Mon were already planning to go against Palpatine. They had secret meetings about it.
>The first city they blew up was filled with insurgents and rebels who had been openly defying them and killing their troops.
No, the Jedi Temple was filled with insurgents, they just happened to also be in the Holy City of Jedha too. The city had a lot more civilians that had nothing to do with the Rebellion or Extremists in any way.
>The second one was under attack by Rebel troops and if they succeded in their goal the damage they could cause to the Empire would be way worse than just a blown up imperial facility.
Which they did succeed in it.
>Same shit as before, the planet was filled with traitors and its royalty was supporting the Rebellion.
To which they had no idea. Prior to that Bail Organa attended all Senate meetings and backed Palpatine because it was too dangerous, especially if Leia was to be found by the Emperor. Tarkin and Vader only destroyed Alderaan as a message to Leia, who was openly defying them. They had no idea Bail was part of the Rebellion himself. The entire planet wasn't part of the Rebellion either by any means.

Also Kashyyyk or the countless other worlds they boned dry and killed.

Like I said, the Empire doesn't play nice and clearly uses totally ruthless and brutal means, but in the end they are (mostly) doing it for the sake of bringing peace and prosperity to the galaxy. It's just a matter of how much you support the whole "the ends justifies the means" deal.
Of course, my point isn't helped by the fact that 99% of the imperial characters shown in the franchise were mustache-twirling villains who were more interested on doing petty evil for the sake of it than working for a "righteous" goal.

just going by the OT the empire isn't really that bad if you are a human

they did oppress alien species/unique cultures

EU stuff during the time period of the OT fleshes out the empire's authoritarianism and oppression more but lucas didn't really give us too much in the OT.. you aren't supposed to think about too much, the empire is just supposed to be space nazis with space wizard hitler that can shoot lightning bolts from his hands.

after palpatine is killed and the empire breaks up in the new canon they fuck off to the outer regions to regroup and build the giant death star, again TFA doesn't give us much to work with beyond stormtroopers killing fairly indiscriminately and hux and kylo being wannabe villains.

honestly these movies aren't written that robustly plus it may be too much to show in a single movie when it comes down to it, all the details are supplied in EU or supplementary materials.

>1000 years/generations of peace and prosperity
>THE REPUBLIC WAS SHIT!

>The Republic was the kind of inneficent and corrupt shithole where the likes of Nute Gurray or any space jew with enough money and influence could do whatever the fuck he wanted while the Senate discussed if they sould or shouldn't do anything about it.
>The Empire isn't a nice and friendly organization, but the Republic was shit too
The senate was MAJORLY flawed, I can agree with that. But they weren't evil. At worst, they were ineffective or slow. That doesn't excuse killing everyone who disagrees with you.

>the ends justify the means
Kill yourself.

>just going by the OT the empire isn't really that bad if you are a human
The nazis weren't bad if you were German.

You mean like the peace that the Galaxy had before Palpatine entered the picture which started the Trade Federation and Separatists in order to get the Jedi involved, the Clones involved, and ultimately lead the Empire?

The Republic was completely at peace prior to Palpatine constructing years of keikaku. He is the cause of everything wrong. All so the Sith could rule the Galaxy, that was it, that's all he wanted, to rule with an iron fist.

If all the sith wanted just to get rid of the jedi, what was the reason for all the other evil shit they were doing? Why not just let the galaxy run via free markets, which is the most efficient way of running a galaxy-sized economy?

But how is the empire evil then? I can get why the Soviet Union is evil, but this is calling the Roman Empire evil, Nazi Germany evil and the USA evil.

>Alderaan played a pivotal role in the establishment of the Rebel Alliance
Well, can't say anything, even though destroying the whole planet was overkill it served two purposes, killing their enemy and instilling fear. But look at it from the other side, let's say the rebels are Al Queda or IS and they are currently making bomb attacks and killing civillians in your own country, what do you do, I'd bomb the shit outta them.

Watch the scene where they are talking about it.
They suggest arresting Palpatine if he didn't gave back his special powers once Grievous was kill even before they knew he was the Sith Lord behind everything. Someone asks what they should do once he is arrested and suggests that they will have to take power till things go back to normal and Yoda tells them to stop such a dangerous train of thought or something like that.

>were German.

And not Jewish, Gay or Gypsy

>But how is the empire evil then? I can get why the Soviet Union is evil, but this is calling the Roman Empire evil, Nazi Germany evil and the USA evil.
The Romans and Nazis were evil. Hell even the US is pretty evil at times.

they were the guardians of the republic
of course they would have done something if Palpatine was going to keep asking for more special powers over and over even if the war was over

and in hindsight they were right

Did you just say the nazis weren't evil but the soviets were?

>and Yoda tells them to stop such a dangerous train of thought or something like that
so then they wouldn't have done it
if the grandmaster of the jedi order says something, the jedi follow it. that's why they're not sith

using the dark side turns you into a sadist even if you don't really want to be

there's tons of stories in the old EU about sith and jedi trying to figure out how to access the immense power of the dark side without turning into a psychopath

>They suggest arresting Palpatine if he didn't gave back his special powers
Because those powers made him a dictator.

Guess what -- they were right.

To be fair, the Empire is literally led by an evil wizard.

I suppose that, at the end of the day, that doesn't necessarily mean that every Imperial soldier, officer, or mid-level bureaucrat is going to be a moustache-twirling villain, but it's kind of hard to distance oneself from the fact that the Emperor is the culmination of a 1,000 plot to destroy the Republic - and more importantly, the Jedi - from within.

The Jedi would have had a co-existence with the Senate as they did in the past, the only difference is that its war time and they are the acting Generals and Commanders which gives them slightly more say and power, especially when it comes to a Sith Lord. They'd handle the Force related things while the Senate handled the backstabbing and political actions.

Besides, nobody dared go against Yoda usually. The only one was Qui-Gon and Qui-Gon was well more in tune with the living Force than anybody else at the time.

They weren't meant to get so involved with politcs, much less to have any saying on what the guy democratically ellected to lead the Republic should do unless they had proof that he was a tyrannical asshole who wanted to fuck everyone over.

You don't know that. And Yoda didn't order shit, he just said something that "Let's not think about it something like that right now".

Those powers were given to him by the Senate. He was put in his position by the Senate.
Arresting him because they didn't like him having those powers would be shitting over the whole democracy deal the Republic loved so much.

The nazis were actually that comically evil for commies and no one else. The western front was a clean and honorfull war(to an extent). The eastern front was a tooth and nail massacre for survival. And jews were not exterminated, they were just rounding them up to send them to Israel or Madagaskar, nobody cares.

They didn't know Sheev was a Sith Lord when they were talking about arresting him.
They suspected he might be Darth Sidious's puppet but that was as far as their suspicions went.

Aftermath touches on that very subject. Where some people believed in the Empire and their strive for peace, but not their insane methods of going about doing it. Because the formation of the Empire did end the Clone Wars and bring 'peace' back to the Galaxy, but their methods in doing so afterwards was strict. But that person also believes that the Rebellion wanted good and that both sides did bad things.

>You don't know that
but I do know that, the entire difference between sith and jedi, dark and light side users is the amount of restrain and self control they exhibit
any jedi who would willingly act against the word of their grandmaster would eventually fall to the dark side anyway, thus they would be sith and not jedi

And Yoda told them to shut up, which they did. Eventually they'd find out he was Sidious thanks to Anakin.

Besides, even though the Dark Side clouded their judgment and they never properly adapted to fighting the Sith since Darth Bane's Rule of Two, they were still right. There was something extremely odd about Palpatine always asking for more executive power and control despite having the majority of it.

Soviets opressed their own people. Romans and Nazis didn't and Statians don't. How I see it is the Americans are the evilest here, followed by the Roman empire, because they had slaves and finally Nazis, whose supposedly evil nature comes from supposedly exterminating jews and nothing else. As far as I know, though Axis countries excluding Japan are not evil.

>Because the formation of the Empire did end the Clone Wars and bring 'peace' back to the Galaxy
the only reason the clone wars even happened was because of palpatine

The Jedi are supposed to obey their Code and their teachings.
The Jedi Grandmaster is an influential figure but he doesn't have any sort of absolute powers. If a Jedi thought that the Grandmaster's orders went against their role as guardians of the Republic, the Jedi Code, etc then he would defy them.

>Romans and Nazis didn't oppress their own people
>also excluding Imperial Japan as not evil

Do you know anything about history at all?

Similar to how every German soldier wasn't a Nazi. There were quite a few Imperial soldiers/pilots that joined the Rebellion once they saw what the Empire was actually doing.

Did the word Evil lost its meaning like calling people Hitler nowadays, now everything we don't like is Evil? Do you know what real evil is? youtube.com/watch?v=h9CtZDsoOfE

sure, now did yoda ever seek to lead the jedi away from their code to make a power grab in the republic?

True, very much true. But I can see why some people would think the Empire was good. The guy in Aftermath condemns Palpatine as well, but not all of the systems and laws that the Empire had in place.

Its one of those morally gray areas where the Rebellion and Empire both did some good things, but they also did evil things. Some agree with certain aspects, and others disagree. Its actually pretty nicely thought out, because as some have said, not everyone in the Empire was evil, a good chunk sure, but not everyone.

As a whole though, yeah the Empire was pretty fucking evil thanks to Palpatine and his cronies.