This film was unfairly sabotaged by critics because it wasn't emulating Marvel like their infantile minds so desperately crave. It was also unfairly sabotaged by critics because it is in its core a conservative film that doesn't sing the same song rest of Hollywood does.
Discuss.
meme
I agree with you. It had its flaws though, but critics (and in turn audiences) put them under a microscope
I've written war and peace about the film since it came out, and a recurring theme was the conservative nature of the film, and of course, the fact that it has something to say - as opposed to Marvel's largely superficial films that play out like a $100 million dollar tv episode. AMC's Halt and Catch Fire looks like it has higher production value than Marvel films.
>inb4 DC fag.
I dislike capeshit in gneneral
the only people who disagree with you are the disneylets who spout tomatometer scores and box office revenue, and why would anyone take their opinion seriously when they don't even trust their own opinion
Reminder that according to critics, Marvel is literally perfection
So why did Lex give the mercenaries his special bullets that would lead right back to him?
How comes Batman is fine with Wonder Woman even though her mother's name probably isn't Martha?
What was Lex's plan? Kill Superman by letting loose an uncontrollable monster?
Explain the success of Nolan's movies without contradicting this statement.
>users =/= critics
>more user ratings = higher score
>7.3/10
>literally perfection
You what nigga?
Explain when it comes to BvS, every single scene is nitpicked to death but major plot holes in Marvel films are justified with "it's supposed to be fun, just don't overthink it xD"?
How can you be this stupid and still be able to write?
HERE'S A HINT, RETARD: SUPERMAN IS JESUS!
I wish I could whine everyday about my movie being bullied
>bitches about plotholes but doesn't bother to point any out
Stay persecuted.
They entertaining
The Nolan films came out in a time period where the politification of Hollywood wasn't as homogenous and journalism itself was more neutral than its current form. Also before a time where the Marvel template became the superhero template.
>What was Lex's plan?
Did you watch the movie, you fucking idiot? Lex outright tells Superman his plans.
Or maybe they were just good movies.
>it's OK to enjoy a dumb movie for dumb people because it's dumb
>90% RT score
Bats psychology is easy to understand. He felt helpless about what happened to the people in MoS. Bats doesn't deal well with feeling helpless. It reminds him of the night HIS PARENTS ARE DEAD!!!
And they made a point of making the Bruce/WW (is she even named at all in the movie?) parallel his interaction with Catwoman in the comics, giving the viewers all the clues they needed to understand Bruce's motivations in his scenes.
Because those scenes are pretty important in BvS. I mean I could also ask why people are being fooled by Superman's glasses but that just comes with the territory.
Being butthurt about daddy beating you isn't really a plan.
Because it's Nolan.
He appeals to the plebs and mainstream audiences. Ask someone on the street - maybe someone who thinks they're a cinemaphile, they'll tell you that Inception, Interstellar, The Dark Knight and maybe bullshit like Civil War and The Shawshank Redemption are their favourite films. Or the best films. I consistently hear that Nolan is a master director (lmao), or his films are flawless/perfect (lmao).
I hate superhero movies except for Nolan's Batman trilogy. Should I watch this one or no?
Not really.
Do I need to explain to you what a character is and how his backstory fuels his motivations? Are we really at that basic level of shitposting here? You're getting desperate, Marvel Pajeet.
Yes. Marvel Films have ruined the superhero genre but there are still some gems here and there.
where ca torrent the phase one nd phase two?
i'm not use to this sort of thing...
Look at the number of good superhero movies BEFORE the MCU started, this shit was shit since the beginning.
>The fact that a Marvel movie dares to question the big shiny spectacle that is its bread and butter
What? When? What the fuck are you on about you dumb bimbo?
>Its many ideas, plot-points and characters are expertly conceived
And people will still argue these shills are legitimate critics.
Well, it's not simple as Nolan movies, but you can try
There is literally NO markings of an artist in a Marvel film. Made on an assembly line by suits and test audiences, once you've seen one marvel film, you've seen them all.
Because failing all else, the Marvel movies are at least entertaining and let their heroes be heroes.
You can do a semi-realistic, grim take on heroes and people will like it... if it is done well. This is why the Nolan trilogy is so well-regarded; to does what it can to ground the comic book aspects of Batman, and if any comic book hero is amenable to going full dark and grim, it's Batman.
However, if you aim for grim and serious and very nearly remove all sense of joy from a movie, you had better get it *right* because it has nothing else to fall back on.
Snyder's simply not up to the task. Someone else might be but he clearly isn't.
Also as dumb as some things in Marvel movies are they still don't rise to the level of "Hey let's throw the Kryptonite spear into water for no reason so we can nearly drown someone," "Hey instead of giving the Kryptonite weapon to the fighter who's clearly an expert in archaic weapons and isn't going to be incapacitated by it we should totally give it to the guy who isn't a trained fighter and who will be incapacitated by it" or "Martha... Mar-Martha..." instead of just saying "He has my mother. You have to save my mother."
Also you can only kill Superman for the first time once in live-action movies, just as you can only have him team up with the other members of the trinity for the first time once. Not only did they blow their load on both in the same movie they somehow managed to shit both of them up.
That single scene in BvS with more humanity, heart and character than the entire MCU combined.
One Single Scene.
Most of these gems are not really capesit, but capeshit deconstructions. BvS is the only recent (post-2010) capeshit that was done straight that I would call a gem. It does flirt with the decontruction of the superhero genre, but it's only one of the themes in the movie.
Yes user. Let it all out.
Jonathan "Pa" Kent is arguably the greatest villain in modern cinema. Zack Snyder turned a bland farmer from Kansas into more than just the adoptive father of Superman; Pa Kent is now the catalyst that turns the Over-Man into a vicious killer, a dark messiah who offers hope only of being in his shadow.
Jonathan Kent is not an important man on the surface. He has an ailing farm and a wife who may share a name with the Wayne matriarch but has none of the wealth or the charm as that Martha does. Plagued by the sounds and sights of drowning horses and his own premature impotence, Jonathan finds the child his wife always wanted in the alien he names Clark, the creature he sees as the ultimate tool of vengeance upon the world that has mistreated him. Gone are the dreams of old, gone the days of hard working men like President Truman or Jonathan's father. Now the world is a gutter, filled with the sex and blood of thieves, whore and murderers. Jonathan sees in Clark the potential to create a messianic figure, a symbol of hope people could look up to as their new god, and thus he begins to lay the groundwork of his plans. He almost blew his cover when Clark saved a busload of children from drowning. All the trouble to sabotage the bus' brakes, and now the boy ruins everything. Jonathan couldn't have his boy plagued by the same sights and sounds of drowning life as he himself is, so he had to take more drastic measures. He had to die before his son's eyes for a pointless reason, to show that the life of a human being is worth no more than that of a dog's.
Jonathan Kent will teach you the Superman. He is lightning, he is madness!
>You can do a semi-realistic, grim take on heroes and people will like it.
People liked BvS though. Marvel shills have this agenda where they love to paint BvS as hated but outside of their bought liberal journalists, people were fine with BvS. It had a B+ score with cinemagoers and it made more movie than Rogue One is going to make.
Thanks senpai. I think this is one of my biggest dislikes about Marvel films is that they all literally look the same
>Desaturated, no colour. Washed out
>Digital shakey cam
>No adult/wider/heavier themes
>Poor choreography
>Age absolutely poorly due to cutting corners with CGI
>Narratively, act the same
>No risk, because no death, because all the characters have contracts till they die.
>Di$ney
I feel slightly better now. It's quite cathartic
Could you explain to me in your own words what a deconstruction is and point out some movies that you think fit the bill.
Can you try this again without greentexting? Forming whole sentences will wring out the last of your hatred and bitterness.
Marvel movies from 2008 look, sound and are directed better than Marvel movies today. There has been an absolute regression of everything good about film in the past decade under the hands of Kevin Feige and his puppet "directors".
>This is why the Nolan trilogy is so well-regarded; to does what it can to ground the comic book aspects of Batman, and if any comic book hero is amenable to going full dark and grim, it's Batman.
Christopher Nolan’s masterwork isn’t dark; it’s cool and it’s escapism
In Nolan’s Batman, you can indulge in the fantasy that is Batman without any of the repercussions. You can watch Bruce Wayne blow up a monastery full of ninjas, but because you never see their bodies burning, them screaming in agony, and them maimed and dying it’s okay. Batman can ram through a trailer in a chase scene, and because Nolan never showed their bodies, it’s okay. Catwoman can shoot Bane with a high powered rifle and kill him, but because the movie doesn’t dwell on it and she says a one-liner, it’s okay. All of these examples remove the consequences from the heroes’ actions. It allows you to indulge in the fantasy and think these heroes are great, but that feeling of elation you get is disingenuous as the films just pretend that people aren’t dying.
is themes tend to skew more idealistic than most other filmmakers. From his central theme of love transcending time and space in Interstellar, to him showing that the good in man will prevail in the end in The Dark Knight, Christopher Nolan views humanity very optimistically. Zack Snyder, on the other hand tends to end his movies in bittersweet ways—there is never a clean triumph. Victory is earned with blemishes. Zack Snyder isn’t entirely idealistic, nor is he pessimistic. He’s both, as most things in life tend to be. That’s our world: things are rarely purely one thing or another; most times things are both to varying degrees. There is a misconception that Batman v Superman and Nolan’s movies are comparable because they’re DC movies about Batman, but that’s where their similarity starts and ends: Snyder’s films skew darker than Nolan’s.
for the record, I think most of the Marvel movies are pretty bland and all feel the same but, BvS just wasn't a very good movie
The serious tone throughout the movie was almost comical and too much of it was eye-roll worthy
youtube.com
pretty kino desu
Not him, but when something deconstructs a genre, I feel as though the film acts reflexively, understanding the constructs and themes of the genre. They may subvert or reinforce themes and so on.
I'd love to, but I'm pretty cooked and need to sleep soon. Thanks for the therapy though, senpai.
That airport scene was disgusting. In fact, how the fuck did Civil War get such acclaim. It was disgusting to look at, and again, washed over me and I have not thought about it since, until someone posts the airport scene.
>Hey instead of giving the Kryptonite weapon to the fighter who's clearly an expert in archaic weapons and isn't going to be incapacitated by it we should totally give it to the guy who isn't a trained fighter
Wounder Woman crealry wasn't strong enough to do sjit with spear against Doomsday
>instead of just saying "He has my mother. You have to save my mother."
identify people using their names alot easier
No. Not because I can't, but because I don't like doing what other people tell me to do.
>muh cgi
Man I haven't even watched a mcu movie since the Hulk but the action scenes are better now that they take influence from asian choreography.
I didn't tell you to, I asked you to. Meanie.
...
There's just something wrong with having a powershot with Spidey, Black Widow and T'Chala just standing there like regular joes instead of crouching or something.
Anyone else think that Renner is literally the only good character and actor in the MCU
strongly agree
They should have released the Ultimate Cut version, and it would have had a much higher score. Shills would have bitched it was 3 hours long though, but fuck them, ultimate cut was great!
I just watched Dr. Strange today for the first time. I thought it was maybe the best Marvel movie I've seen, and I've watched most of them.
The Avengers bore the fuck out of me, and I guess I just like DC characters more, but I was impressed with the cinematography with Dr. Strange. The story wasn't that great but it was fun to watch. X-men are about the only Marvel chars I like.
Why would they be crouching? I could understand Wanda squatting since she's a Slav but come on.
I'm not Green.
...
>it's a not like marvel movies therefore nobody liked it episode
Renner is based. I don't know why Cuck Evans is a meme when Renner is the only one with balls in the MCU. He was also pretty good in Arrival.
Is this a movie or a video game cutscene?
Renner pulls in great performances wherever he goes
>The Town
>Kill the Messenger
>The Hurt Locker
>Even the Bourne Legacy
Awful isn't it? What's worse is that people love this shit. lmao
>People liked BvS though.
No. People saw it in droves before word of mouth started killing it, and Sup Forums loves to be contrarian and edgy.
This is why it died in the arse for ticket sales and Deadpool (fucking *Deadpool,* headed by a man regarded as box office poison) surged past it. One massively front-loaded its audience and had no legs despite starring three of the biggest heroes in pop culture because it was objectively bad. Not gonna say Deadpool was the greatest cinematic masterpiece of all time, but holy shit when a movie made on a shoe-string budget that was only released to get Ryan Reynolds to stop bitching for five god damn seconds already beats the living shit out your projected major blockbuster with a hilariously huge advertising budget due to word of mouth something has gone *seriously* wrong.
And not in ways that can be explained with meme arrows and typical Sup Forums/TV "plebs can't understand this kino" stuff either.
IMO a lot of the issues stem from Snyder, who fundamentally *does not* get Superman and, moreover, *does not want* to get Superman. Then from there you've got the problem of him being able to bring cool visuals to screen but not much else, and wanting to re-live Watchmen except with Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman in place of Rorshach, Dr. Manhattan, and Silk Spectre respectively.
The number of times they actually came close to doing something smart and then fucked it up just makes it painful. Like the hearing, where the bomb was in that injured guy's wheelchair. It was lead-shielded but Supes wouldn't want to look any way, because he would see the guy's internal injuries and be reminded of his failures. If they'd just done that and left Granny's Peach Tea out, it would have been so much better. The killer is that it happens not just in that scene, but over and over and over again.
variety.com
>The success of “Batman v Superman” is just the latest example of the cultural wars between the press and the public. As reporters sharpened their knives, audiences voted with their wallets, and propelled the movie to break box office records. The only missing voice in this conversation is Donald Trump himself. But you can bet that when he tweets out his review, it’ll be glowing — just to show how wrong the media was about Batman.
I love it when journalists themselves admit they're waging a cultural war against the wrongthink movies.
>made almost a billion at the box office
>most successful Superman film of all time
>will probably earn more than Rogue One
Your narrative is failing you buddy.
>Snyder, who fundamentally *does not* get Superman
Explain Superman to me please
>will probably earn more than Rogue One
Star Wars is unstoppable though, no matter how shitty it is.
What's the difference between the UC and the T-Cut?
I saw it on a movie channel and it was almost 15 minutes short of 3 hours long. Was that the UC? Google isn't really helpful at the moment.
Is there a great differanc ein quality? I saw the Daredevil Director's Cut and thought it was a great movie compared to the T-Cut. Is that in the same ballpark?
...
The UC is much better, has better pacing and spends more time with the characters. If you ever rewatch it, watch the UC.
Being this much of a nigger kek
Let me lay it down for you fags
>BvS was great except for doomsday scene
>marvel flicks were great up until Disney bought it. Look at the difference in iron man 1 to civil war
>marvel really has no personality when it comes to the newer movies
>BvS had some weird plot choices that could've been done better
>I hate capeshit films but if I had to choose I'd go with DC which has personality atleast
>iron man 1 and captain America was still kino
There's this guy, right? And he's from space. He's faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, capable of leaping the tallest building in a single bound. He fights a never ending battle for truth and justice.
Why does Iron Man without helmet look so weird in recent Marvel movies when he looked fine in Iron Man 1? Why this regression?
Because he's completely CGI
>Christopher Nolan’s masterwork isn’t dark; it’s cool and it’s escapism
It's darker than typical superhero fare and, indeed, most movies generally.
BvS goes way past that and fumbles the execution.
It may have been striving for a higher degree of difficulty but it doesn't matter what a gymnast was trying to achieve when they faceplant twice in succession. They're going to be marked on what they did.
>Wounder Woman crealry wasn't strong enough to do sjit with spear against Doomsday
They show her tanking his eyebeams, tanking him hitting her, and hamstringing him with her sword. Now if they'd shown her to be useless then sure but she was pretty clearly the best-suited to going at him with the spear.
>identify people using their names alot easier
No, Snyder just has a hard-on for that shit because he literally filmed a (cut) scene for Watchman using the same schtick where a bigot finally humanises his enemy because they have the same name.
The "Martha" scene is just cringeworthy and could have been salvaged simply by changing it to "My mother." Especially since what gets Bats on-side isn't just that they have the same name, it's that Supes is doing this because his mother is threatened, and Bats knows *all* about what the loss of a parent can drive someone to do.
>There's this guy, right? And he's from space. He's faster than a speeding bullet, more powerful than a locomotive, capable of leaping the tallest building in a single bound. He fights a never ending battle for truth and justice.
So.. basically Snyder Superman, but more OP, but without feelings and existential/moral thoughts?
You are so fucking delusional. The movie has some great scenes, but the way they were woven together was completely incoherent. It has nothing to do with having a "conservative tone" or whatever the fuck you're on about. It's a fucking kids movie, for chrissakes.
What part of "truth and justice" is it that you Snyderfags can't grasp?
>finally humanises his enemy because they have the same name.
Fuck. Stop this meme. It wasn't about "humanising" Superman
Batman is never actually confronting Superman with the possibility that Superman will become a threat or that he’s too powerful to be trusted. Batman’s isn’t monologuing to Superman about the 1% doctrine. Instead, Batman is talking about his parents and about how he’s struggled to make sense of the world. Batman is grappling with issues of masculinity and his relationship to god, the god who took his parents from him. Batman’s primary issue is his psychological feeling of powerlessness and his inability to handle his failures as both Bruce and Batman.
that (pic related) dream showed Bruce still having nightmares about his parents’ death, and now here he is trying to do the only thing that he thinks will matter, trying to redeem himself and his parents through vengeance, which of course is a path toward doom. We could also say that in both scenes, Bruce is mourning his parents’ death, particularly his mother’s. And maybe the man-bat breaking out of the bloody tomb was the warning that if Batman spills blood with the spear (that is, he kills Superman), that he will actually be unleashing a demon
Chris Terrio himself, in an interview with the Wall Street Journal, said that he was digging in to revenge tragedy structure for his work on BvS and Pulpklatura traced out the full revenge tragedy arc for Batman in this movie. A typical revenge tragedy takes the character all the way to the moment where they are going to carry out the vengeance, and of course if they do they are actually harming themself, not just the person they’re targeting. It’s really their own soul that is on the line. And in the revenge tragedy structure, that all leads up to the moment called Anagnorisis — the recognition or moment of clarity when the main character gains the understanding that was missing (because of his fatal flaw).
he's been completely cgi since iron man 2 faggot
It also fills in all the "holes" or criticisms that people were trying to talk shit about it.
For example, there's a scene that's like 15 seconds long, where Louis finds out the wheelchair guy that blows up the court house. She finds out he had a lead lined wheelchair. Everyone was bitching "why didn't superman sense the bomb"
There are about 10 scenes like that, that explain things that weren't addressed in the T Cut, and like said, the pacing is MUCH better, and is fluid, not "all over the place" with the cuts.
>Why does Iron Man without helmet look so weird in recent Marvel movies when he looked fine in Iron Man 1?
>iron man 1
>because he's completely CGI
HE'S BEEN COMPLETELY CGI SINCE IRON MAN 2 FAGGOT!
lmao, sure got me there, bud. Learn to read.
BvS isn't (just) a Superman film though, it is and was promoted as the first time the trinity get together on screen.
BvS could easily have been a pop culture phenomenon on par with a SW movie, or at least a LotR one on that fact alone.
Snyder managed to shit it up so badly it failed to live up to the expectations set by WB. And those weren't unreasonable expectations, either, it was a massively-promoted, high-budget blockbuster where Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman were on screen together for the first time.
It should have broken a billion easy. It was certainly expected to.
What said. it's not complicated. But Zack "Batman would totally be arse-raped in prison, that's just realistic!" Snyder doesn't want to engage with super heroes, he wants to tell his grim and gritty OC stories instead.
Which would be cool if his OC was any good. But his OC is BvS and Sucker Punch.
Ooops.
You're a DCuck and a nigger
...
Superman as originally conceived is gay as fuck.
>implying Snyder's Man of Steel isn't the best representation of Superman on film
youtube.com
Watch this, see what happens. Look what fuels Superman. See the connection between what the humans are doing and how it impacts Superman? This is one of the greatest scenes of the genre.
See this guy? He doesn't like Superman.
The melodrama! Oh the melodrama!
It's funny because some people actually believe this.
Can you imagine if they had buttsecks? Wow
It's called a semblance of humanity. I know being so brainwashed by Marvel's videogame turds made you forget about it but it's there.
Truth
"This bat vigilante has been consistently targeting the port and the adjacent projects and tenements and as far as i can tell cops are actually helping him. Why aren't we covering this? Poor people don't buy pepers? Perry, when you assign a story you're making a choice about who matters. And who's worth it"
Justice
"Civil liberties are being trampled on in your city. Good people are living in fear. I've seen it Mr. Wayne, He thinks he's above the law."
>BvS could easily have been a pop culture phenomenon on par with a SW movie
Funny because I doubt Rogue One is going to beat BvS.
Perfection would be 100% I believe.
>It wasn't about "humanising" Superman
Except that it so clearly is.
Batman stops because up to that point he's been opposing Superman as a force of nature, reasoning that his power makes him inhuman and gives him no reason to really hold back. Which he even literally says to Alfred at one point.
And then he sees that under all the raw power is someone who loves his mother and wants to try and keep her safe. That he's doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.
Just like Batman.
Killing Superman wouldn't even be that big a step for Batman. We are shown him blowing through a bunch of mooks in the movie and he's started to not just torture criminals but deliberately mark them for death to send a message to others.
Which is another problem the movie has, it relies on the audience knowing that Batman's not supposed to kill rather than showing his descent to that point, and does the same with a number of other character aspects.
Which would be fine shorthand if handled well, but just winds up being something else they do cack-handed.
No the theater cut was a fucking mess. All you yifi neets just saw another version than critics
>Truth
Did he ever cover that story?
>Justice
>"You can't be a vigilante who acts above the law, that's MY job!"
Okay then.
Yeah, because I'm not a fucking faggot.
You will never have a good Superman movie unless you tone down the faggotry by several orders of magnitude. Snyder at least gets that.
postkino
See this guy? He doesn't like Superman movies.
For 2016 gross? Probably not but this is because you're being a semantic dickweed.
It's being launched 16 days from the new year and its profits will be spread over both the '16 and '17 calendars, which will hurt it in comparisons of profit in either year.
For total profit it should do better.