Lord of the Rings

So was Sauron literally an eye? Or was it just a liberty the movies took?
Was he skulking around in Barad-Dur issuing orders to his Orcs and Nazgul or was he really just an eye because he lost the Ring?

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>Posts a literal photo of the Eye
>hurr durr guys, was he an eye?

He had no physical form. This is clearly explained in the movie. In the first five minutes, no less

According to the books (or Tolkien's notes, can't remember), he's essentially a massive, burnt nigger yelling orders at his minions and scaring them for entertainment. Like 9 ft tall.

no
he was really a lighthouse

No, he had a body. Gollum apparently saw him because he said he only has 9 fingers now.

He was also supposed to appear in the flesh in the last battle, they actually shot the scene where he fights Aragorn but replaced him with a troll in the end.

I am laughing at all the responses itt
I thank you all /tv

He does have a physical form, it's just extremely weak. We briefly see it in the Palantir. Aragorn was originally going to fight Sauron's physical form in the final battle.

Sauron also originally had a 3rd form in the movie, which was a qt twink.

An EVIL lighthouse, no less.

iirc there was no giant eye on top of barad dur, the eye of sauron existed though and was an emblem used by his armies. he also has a physical form in the books too, whereas in the movie he has none.

in the movie he's literally a spirit eyeball.

in the book the eye of sauron is a symbol of mordor orcs and implies him as all seeing/powerful, but it's metaphorical. he can see far and wide because he has a palantir in, not because he is a big eyeball.

>'Sauron should be thought of as very terrible. The form that he took was that of a man of more than human stature, but not gigantic.'

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, No 246, dated 1963

Peter Jackson got the eye thing from some vague metaphor for Saurons powers of surveillance in the books as he didn't have adaption rights for the letters.

>stay home sick from work because of a stomach bug
>spend the whole day marathoning the extended editions
Sauron had a physical body in the books and the flaming eye was more of a symbol or trademark of his than his actual manifestation, as well as what his perception manifests as.
In the books though he is seen only once, by gollum, who says something about a black hand missing a finger.
The ring existing is literally the only reason sauron can take on a corporeal form anymore. After the valar dropped a continent on him he lost the ability to take a pleasing shape, and the ring was his anchor to the physical world.

>adaption rights
Isn't LOTR free domain?

He did take a pleasing shape in ROTK before fighting Aragorn, but that scene was deleted. I guess it wasn't canon-complaint?

That's a falcon not an eagle you dumb idiot

No lmao. Christopher Tolkien owns everything and won't give away anything but the bare minimum. That's why a Silmarillion adaptation is impossible while he's alive.

Giant eagles are hawk shapped.

Aren't some LOTR things free domain though? Like elves, orcs, hobbits etc.

>implying this wasn't completely retarded and cut from the film for good reason

I thought Silmarillion adaptation was impossible because there's literally impossible to make a full length movie with it.

It strikes me more of something that would do a kick ass strategy game/RTS for the PC

You don't get to bring elves

iirc Hobbits aren't because they are Tolkien's invention but the other races existed before him so they are.

>Peter Jackson got the eye thing from some vague metaphor for Saurons powers of surveillance in the books as he didn't have adaption rights for the letters.
The lidless eye is explicitly described as being a thing, when frodo looks into the mirror of galadriel she explicitly describes the eye. Its the perception of his will at a distance, but its not entirely baseless either.
And even if the giant eye on top of the tower isn't canonically correct, it's a pretty good use of visual metaphor to convey the threat and persistent will of sauron. What works in literary form doesn't necessary translate to the screen on a 1:1 ratio.

In the books, Frodo sees the Eye when he's close to Mt Doom, but it says the eye was actually looking at Mordor's gates rather than at Frodo. He sees the burning eye in a window in the tower of Barad-Dur.

So I guess Sauron does have a body, although frail, but his spirit also exists in an actual flaming eye for some weird reason. It just looks out of windows now and then, but it's not a giant eye at the top of the tower.

It was retarded and I'm glad it was cut. But I do think it would be cool to have Sauron's fair form appear at some point.

>`It was Isildur who cut off the finger of the Enemy.'
>`Yes, He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough,' said Gollum shuddering.

Some chapters of the Silmarillion could be adapted into full movies but I think it would work better as a Black Mirror style miniseries, with episodes referencing other episodes vaguely (unless they decide to tackle a certain story in two episodes).

Thing is the budget would have to be enormous, bigger than even GoT, or it will look like shit, for any episode involving any of the mayor cities, or any of Morgoth's more unconventional creatures (Balrogs, dragons, werewolves).

I thought Tolkien invented Orcs? Perhaps based on other mythological creatures, but I believe he coined the term Orc, so to say

Children of Hurin would make a nice standalone movie though. So would the tale of Beren and Luthien.

I think you're right. In that case it's strange that Orcs appear in every generic fantasy series.

I thought Sauron was one of Aule's niggas before Melkor corrupted him, wouldn't he look more like some badass viking smith considering he was a disciple of the smithing god, the father of the dwarves?

So what are the Two Towers?
Barad-Dur and Orthanc?
Minas Tirith and Minas Morgul?
Boromir and Faramir's penises?

It's a reference to WTC

They talk about it in the commentary, basically they thought sauron works better as an off screen threat.

Orcs were pretty much ogres or even zombies before Tolkien.

No, Sauron is described as preferring a fair form.

I do remember reading that he invented them. But yes, they appear everywhere now, including in stuff like World of Warcraft. So where does the intellectual property end?

I could write a book about a Herbit with hairy palms who finds a wristband that turns him purple and sell millions.

>Frodo sees the Eye when he's close to Mt Doom, but it says the eye was actually looking at Mordor's gates rather than at Frodo. He sees the burning eye in a window in the tower of Barad-Dur.
He senses that Sauron is in the tower, since he has the ring, and he's so close, there's a connection between them.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Two_Towers#Title

Well he did appear to the elves (and later the Numenoreans) in a "fair" form and elves have a rather feminine standard of male beauty, so it's probably based on that.

>tfw googling "Morgoth and Sauron" brings up explicit gay sex

>or even zombies
user zombie's weren't even "zombies" until Romero.

Yeah but imagine a miniseries done in chronological order starting with the Noldor returning to Middle-Earth after being exiled and ending with the fall of Numenor. Some of the more complicated plot lines like the ones you mentioned could be done in two episodes (roughly 140 minutes) while also referencing previous events and having the lore of past episodes to support it.

The problem with the Silmarillion being adapted into a movie is that the backstory is fundamental, while in LOTR the backstory was important but not really entirely needed. You could do something like having a Doriath episode that begins to set up Beren and Luthien, and then two episodes covering Beren and Luthien arc, and so on.

It was a different time.

>>tfw googling "Morgoth and Sauron" brings up explicit gay sex

Women were a mistake.

Well, living deads, undeads, whatever.

It's Barad-Dur and Orthanc.
>also the worst of the three

>399 works
>399 stories about Morgoth reaming Sauron's tight boipussy

Just to clarify things, Tolkien did invent Orcs in the sense that he named them so first. Creatures like it existed before, but he did coin the term. So if you ever find Orcs in other books, films or video games, and they're actually called Orcs, it's because of Tolkien.

So Sauron was a pretty fuckboy? Why he did the orcs ugly then?

Yes but how is that legal, if Christoper Tolkien owns the rights to everything his father made?

We don't see Hobbits in other fantasy works.

The Eye of Sauron is meant to be an abstract term meant to describe Sauron's quasi-omniscience and the spread of his power throughout the land

the movie took it literally and made him a giant eye on top of a tower

Because Sauron was originally a good and beautiful being who later went evil. The orcs were created by corrupting elves.

>We don't see Hobbits in other fantasy works.
Halflings aren't too uncommon in fantasy works.

Tolkien didn't invent the term "halfling" irrc so that's acceptable.

My guess without looking into it at all is that people began using the term Orc while Tolkien was alive enough that it had basically already entered public domain before his son took over the rights.

No, the Eye of Sauron is an actual fucking thing, Saruman describes it to Gandalf in the first book when Gandalf goes to him for advice.

>An eye, lidless, wreathed in flame
Or something like that, don't really remember the exact quote.

u wot

in Italy "Orchi" (literally Orcs)have been a classic fairytale creature for centuries

His son is a nogger, a true fan would assassinate him

That would make sense, thanks user.

What?

Did you see PJ's The Hobbit?
Do you want to see The Silmarillion done in the same style?
No?
Thank based Christopher. He's waiting until we are ready.

Orcs were Melkor's work, elves he corrupted in the darkness before they were found by the valar. Sauron despised the orcs, and they didn't care for him much either, but it was a means to and end.

Is this one of the few times a movie did something better than a book?

zugzug

It's not impossible to adapt, and it doesn't have to be PJ necessarily. The problem with The Hobbit was mainly studio meddling and not giving them enough pre-production time. Otherwise PJ would have done a LOTR-tier job with the material if they had allowed him to stick to his original one or two film plan.

Those are ogres.

Yes, do your research. Orcs are based off mythical creatures. But Tolkien first used the word Orc to describe humanesque, green-tinted warriors of above-average hight that serve evil.
Tolkien was an enormous language nerd, of course he used languages like Latin, Greek and even Italian for his creations.

Dwarves were basically leprechauns before Tolkien turned them into miners and smiths as well. It was done before, I grant you, but Tolkien definitely popularized the way we see Dwarves now, as mighty, stout warriors with axes, instead of green-tailored ginger midgets.

In the book series it is subtly implied that alongside the Eye, Sauron does actually have a physical form that resides in Mordor.

Couple of examples:
Aragorn at the Black Gate: 'Let the Lord of the Black Land come forth!'

Gollum to Frodo, about his torture in Mordor: 'He has only four on the Black Hand, but they are enough'

I don't know about orc, but Tolkien 100% made up the word mithril. So how is it used in so many other properties?

what a fucking hack

>of above-average hight
They we're short squat little fuckers. So much so that the uruk hai were exception in the fact that they were man-height.

Same with elves. Tolkien was single-handedly responsible for our image of elves as tall, wise, beautiful, immortal beings.

Elves used to be more like tiny mischievous pixies.

I assume all that stuff in Shadows of Mordor about him possessing different bodies was all non-cannon, right?

>above-average hight
Those are D&D orcs, Tolkien's were dwarf sized.

>green-tinted
Those are Warhammer orcs, Tolkien's were black.

Maybe it's public domain

So it's Minas Morgul and Orthanc? Huh, who'dve thought.
The movie described them as Orthanc and Barad-Dur in a lovely title name-drop.
>And the union of the Two Towers

This is correct, it's just not clear if Sauron had a physical body + the Eye, or if he could summon or become the Eye or whatever.

>Dwarves were basically leprechauns before Tolkien turned them into miners and smiths as well. It was done before, I grant you, but Tolkien definitely popularized the way we see Dwarves now, as mighty, stout warriors with axes, instead of green-tailored ginger midgets.
They have a lot of influence from Scandinavian gnomes as well. Little nature sprites that caused mischief, and were naturally crafty. The long bushy beards, pointed hats, and industrious nature.

Goblins were green doe

Nah it was canon, he had many different forms. The Silmarillion had goddamn shapeshifting battles.

fair enough

>The Silmarillion had goddamn shapeshifting battles.
You mean he got based Huan around his throat and freaked the fuck out trying to get away before Luthien made him say cross cross applesauce.

Pretty much. He also turned into bats.

Yeah but he wasn't shapeshifting, he was possessing people.

Not in LOTR

I haven't played the game beyond the first 30 minutes, sorry. No, Sauron was not able to possess people in canon. His main technique was manipulation.

>in a lovely title name-drop.
I can't be the only one who loves this shit when done correctly, right? I think LOTR did it perfectly.

>You shall be known as The Fellowship of the Ring
>To stand against the might of Sauron AND Saruman, and the union of The Two Towers
>Authority in not given to you to deny The Return of the King, steward!

Yeah in the books it's pretty ambiguous but it is implied his physical form exists once again although diminished (only has four fingers on one hand from the time Isildur chopped one off).

In the movies it's pretty clear he returned as some sort of spirit being.

Weren't elves tall, wise, beautiful, immortal beings in Snorri texts?

>

The moria goblins were my favorite orcs in middle earth... except for this kuwaii nigger.

>the movie is what Tolkien intended
wew

Also calling that green is questionable

>moving the goalposts this hard
Goblins were mainly green in LOTR faggot

I meant Tolkien's LOTR. And that's just the lighting.

Both the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings are still under copyright.

Looks grayish-green in your picture and I'm sure that's color corrected.

Looks like a pale and sickly yellow to me mate. I'm also pretty sure that's how Tolkien describes them but I'm not sure. He definitely does not call them green.

...they are (or were) squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes; in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the (to Europeans) least lovely Mongol-types.

>tfw meat is back on the menu